Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Change my mind..
Early 2016 Djokovic is the best ever version of Djokovic
- Thread starter Noleberic123
- Start date
GRASScaraz
Hall of Fame
Lost to Vessely at MC
Loss to Lopez and Murray on clay also
100 unforced errors against Simon at the Australian Open.
Loses the first set to Lopez, 6-3, in the Dubai QF before retiring with an eye issue.
Goes down 2-1 in sets to Kukushkin before pulling out a five setter in Davis Cup.
Loses the first set of his first match to Fratangelo, 6-2, in Indian Wells.
Loses to Vesely in his first match in Monte Carlo.
Of course, he had a lot of amazing play mixed in there, but these matches would cut against your case.
Loses the first set to Lopez, 6-3, in the Dubai QF before retiring with an eye issue.
Goes down 2-1 in sets to Kukushkin before pulling out a five setter in Davis Cup.
Loses the first set of his first match to Fratangelo, 6-2, in Indian Wells.
Loses to Vesely in his first match in Monte Carlo.
Of course, he had a lot of amazing play mixed in there, but these matches would cut against your case.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I would agree early 2016 is the best.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Eh he had some really poor matches sprinkled in with the very good ones. And I’d say this peak period ended after only a couple of tournaments.
Early 2011 was better.
Early 2011 was better.
kangaroo1973
Semi-Pro
Well with the exception of poor autumn/ Indoor swing, 2011 has to be one of the greatest seasons Ever. Like 41 wins in a row is just crazy. Beating Rafa 6 times that year and Roger 4 times( at least Roger did not crumble like Nadal did). Nevertheless 2015 is his best season by far imo. And it is not even close.
2016 was a great season too, 7 titles including AO and FO, WTF and USO runner up. Title in Madrid, Miami and Indian Wells. Not bad at all.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Ah, the days of Narnia
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
2011 was one of the best years ever in tennis
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Will we ever go back, professor?
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Under-Stan...four sets, no US Open
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
For Djokovic yes.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Just from 'the good tennis' perspective
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Got bagelled by a Brazilian qualifier at Rome.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Nope! 2011 and 2015 Djokovic clears!
Unseeded Player
Hall of Fame
2011 against prime Nadal and primish Fed.. Nothing beats that season.
Tennfan123
Legend
Depends on your agenda.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Early is from Jan to March. That Djokovic is the best ever any player in history.
I'm still not seeing the case for 2016 over 2011 in that time frame.
In 2011, Djokovic straight setted a better version of Federer at the AO than the one that extended him to four sets in 2016, and 2016 Djokovic had the 100 UE match vs. Simon.
In 2011, Djokovic won Dubai by straight setting Federer, 6-3, 6-3 in the final. In 2016, he lost the first set of his QF to Lopez, 6-3, before retiring.
There was no Davis Cup in 2011, but Djokovic needing to come from 2-1 down in sets in 2016 to beat Kukushkin was not impressive.
In 2011, the versions of Federer and Nadal that Djokovic beat at Indian Wells were better than any player Djokovic beat in 2016 (where he also lost a 6-2 set to Frantangelo).
And, finally, the version of Nadal that Djokovic beat in Miami in 2011 was better than any player Djokovic beat in 2016 (when he had Nishikori in the final).
I have 2011 Djokovic from January-March solidly ahead of 2016 Djokovic from January-March.
NatF
Bionic Poster
It's obvious that early 2011 was better, these agenda pushing bots don't have a clue. He played four really good sets in 2016, in the Doha final and the AO SF but on the whole he was clearly better in 2011.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Nope hard disagree.
Straight sets 2011 semis is far more competitive at 3 hrs long and Federer going toe to toe. In 2016 4 sets or not he was washed.
Nadal is not some peak hc player even in 2011. He is good but not super dominant. Djokovic almost lost that one in over 3 hrs.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
He lost both Paris and atp finals in late 18. Easily disqualified. Early 19 apart from AO did he win anything?
Oceans II
Professional
I think 15/16 and 18/19 have the perfect balance of explosiveness and maturity. 11 he was explosive but wasn't mature (serve, forehand, net play, tactics, mentality, etc). 21 and 23 he was mature but probably wasn't explosive.
But, even if we set aside the two Federer matches at the AO, there's still the 100 UE match vs. Simon in 2016. No way 2011 Djokovic hits triple digit UEs.
And you don't have to think Nadal is a peak HC player to recognize he was significantly stiffer competition in the 2011 Miami final vs. Nishikori in the 2016 SF (or Goffin in the SF).
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
They're just training the AI
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Not for me. Remember AO 2016 match vs Simon? 2011 or 2015 never had a match as bad for nearly the whole season. He was a high level machine in 2011 and 2015.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Yes
Simon is different cat completely. Not sure that pusher is enough.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
He surely was at his impervious best until RG.
Simon match was a case of overconfidance. It was reported that Djoko barely slept the night before watching some water polo matches on TV. Also, one standard charity set doesn't make the 2016 SF any less of a beatdown. 2011 SF was a closer match.
He retired due to an eye infection he had for a few days already and got worse progressively. He tried to play the QF, it didn't work. This specific "argument" reminds me of 2014 MC SF, when he retired due to an elbow injury. Few fednatic clowns made up a story that he was 100% healthy for most of the match, and got really injured only after Federer beat him up in the 1st and like half of 2nd set.
And so on...
Simon match was a case of overconfidance. It was reported that Djoko barely slept the night before watching some water polo matches on TV. Also, one standard charity set doesn't make the 2016 SF any less of a beatdown. 2011 SF was a closer match.
He retired due to an eye infection he had for a few days already and got worse progressively. He tried to play the QF, it didn't work. This specific "argument" reminds me of 2014 MC SF, when he retired due to an elbow injury. Few fednatic clowns made up a story that he was 100% healthy for most of the match, and got really injured only after Federer beat him up in the 1st and like half of 2nd set.
And so on...
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
It’s very easy to forget that Davis Cup match early in 2016 where he got taken to a close five sets by Kukushkin of all people.
He had a couple of absolute peak matches in two straight tournaments in 2016, but 2011 kept that energy consistent, all the way up until RG.
He had a couple of absolute peak matches in two straight tournaments in 2016, but 2011 kept that energy consistent, all the way up until RG.
Racquet_smash
Professional
Djokovic never replicated his 2011 form.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
The tour was significantly better in 2011 and Djokovic dominated (up to and including the USO). Yes, 2016 had Wawrinka but Federer, Nadal and Murray were all significantly worse than in 2011. Tsonga, Berdych, Ferrer, Cilic, solid lessers like Tipsarevic, Roddick (by 2011), Fish. Wawa wasn't a slammer yet in 2011 but still formidable. 2016 was Djoko and Wawa. Murray won Wimbledon thanks to poor play from Djoko and Fed, and ran the table indoors with limited opposition in the fall. His level of play was much better in 2011 when he made the semis in all slams and was competitive all year. The tour had already thinned out by that point. It enjoyed a brief rejuvenation in 2017 with Fed and Nadal's resurgence (but Djokovic, Murray and Wawa all collapsed) and the arrival of Thiem and Zverev, before fading to a much weaker standard of play in the 2020s which we are still "enjoying" today.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I watched him at two tournaments each from closeup in 2011, 2015 and 2016. The 2015/16 version had way more topspin on his shots and his defense was almost impenetrable - also his winning aura was so high in early 2016 that many players were not fighting hard once they went down a set (or two in Slams). So, I would rate the 2015/2016 player way higher than in 2011 just because no one could hit through him except that rare day at the 2015 FO final.
Does anyone have stats on how many straight set wins he had or the set winning % in each of those years?
Does anyone have stats on how many straight set wins he had or the set winning % in each of those years?
Last edited:
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Everything is higher in 2011 but we are only talking first 3 months of 2016 and not entire year
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic fell off a cliff after RG in 2016 so I'll simply consider all the tournaments leading up to and including RG in each of 2011, 2015, and 2016.
2011:
Straight-set wins: 31/44 (incl. 2 retirements)
Set winning %: 87.4%
Match winning %: 97.6%
2015:
Straight-set wins: 29/44
Set winning %: 82.4%
Match winning %: 93.2%
2016:
Straight-set wins: 35/47
Set winning %: 86.8%
Match winning %: 93.6%
He had a higher proportion of straight-set matches in 2016, but 2011 clears in all other areas, especially the match win % which isn't 100% only because I included the Federer loss at RG. Worth noting that 2011 also faced much stronger competition on the road to those wins too.
I think you base too much of your analysis on a small sample size of watching matches live.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that a healthy Djokovic loses that match against Lopez in Dubai. The point is simply that we're comparing a version of Djokovic who straight setted a good version of Federer in the 2011 final vs. a version who had to retire in the QF.
And I definitely buy the overconfidence angle to the Simon match, but I think that factors into which version of Djokovic was better. 2011 Djokovic was hungry and driven to win the AO after the 3 year drought. 2016 Djokovic got a little overconfident and ended up hitting triple digit UEs in a single match. For me, this plays a pretty big role in 2011 Djokovic being better.
RS
Bionic Poster
Nah outside RG 11 it sucked
Golden-24
New User
Gilles Simon was always a nightmarish H2H for Djokovic (and a lot of players). He was always losing sets or struggling in 1 set at the very least. When Simon was on a good day, he couldn't miss a ball. It was mission impossible to blow him off the court. But then Djokovic destroyed Federer and Murray. 2 of his best matches against the big-4 in Grand Slams.
In Dubaï he retired, like you said. Bad luck. Can't hold it against him. And it was just Dubaï after all.
IW was just rust following his eye issue in Dubaï. He also beat Milos 6-2 6-0 in the final. One of the biggest beatdowns in a Masters final. More impressive than Nadal-Verdasco in Monaco 2010 for me. Raonic was an ace machine and playing the best tennis of his life that day. Breaking his serve 5 times in 7 games was insane, no one else could've done it.
Monaco was a strange loss but not surprising. He never beat Vesely in 2 matches. And Monaco is his least successful Masters since he won the title in 2015. I can excuse it.
Similar threads
