Eastern forehand grip - Racket face

I use an EF because feels very comfortable to me and mmuch more than other grips i have tried (SW). My problem is that many times during the lag (naturally geneated with a completely loose wrist) my arm rotates in a way that racket face is too open to properly spin the ball and it generates sailing balls due to lack of spin. Anyone had this problem and any tips used to maintain a closed racket face? Not intersted to chnage grip at the moment and change thw entire swing.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
You should take high speed video of your forehand and compare it to high level forehands.

1) Grip. You change the angle of the strings to your palm by rotating the racket to new bevel reference points. Try it with a racket.

2) Grip. You change the angle of the forearm to the racket by where you place two hand reference points on two bevel reference points. Almost always the index knuckle is used as one hand reference point. Despite internet instructions referring to the fat pad, most high level players do not place the racket butt on the fat pad of the hand, usually the butt does not reach the fat pad. You can see this in pictures and videos. More often the butt of the racket ends around the little finger. Where the butt is placed in the hand, especially fat pad or around the little finger, affects the forearm to racket angle. Try it with a racket.

3) Stroke, wrist, others. The stroke and wrist also affect how open the strings are.

Compare your forehand technique to high level forehands on average height balls with video.

There are more than one forehand techniques being used.

Look especially at the colored lines that indicate the angles of the racket approaching impact. Djokovic & Federer. These are in the second half of this article.
https://tennisspeedresearch.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part.html


If you have another forehand technique - that has your forearm in a different orientation at impact - do you want to change the grip to make it work?
 
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Lance L

Semi-Pro
1. Hold the racquet with your off hand.
2. Put the racquet into the approx location where you want to make contact, in relation to your body.
3. Now grab the racquet with your hitting hand.
4. That is your grip.

When I do that I end up with an Eastern Grip(Index knuckle on 3, maybe a smidge towards 4.) If you do this and don't get three, that means that you are forcing yourself into Eastern when it isn't natural.
 
1. Hold the racquet with your off hand.
2. Put the racquet into the approx location where you want to make contact, in relation to your body.
3. Now grab the racquet with your hitting hand.
4. That is your grip.

When I do that I end up with an Eastern Grip(Index knuckle on 3, maybe a smidge towards 4.) If you do this and don't get three, that means that you are forcing yourself into Eastern when it isn't natural.

Thanks for this. I have already tried that and confirms that my grip is Eastern.
 
You should take high speed video of your forehand and compare it to high level forehands.

1) Grip. You change the angle of the strings to your palm by rotating the racket to new bevel reference points. Try it with a racket.[\QUOTE]

I understand this but I am not inclined in changing grip.

2) Grip. You change the angle of the forearm to the racket by where you place two hand reference points on two bevel reference points. Almost always the index knuckle is used as one hand reference point. Despite internet instructions referring to the fat pad, most high level players do not place the racket butt on the fat pad of the hand, usually the butt does not reach the fat pad. You can see this in pictures and videos. More often the butt of the racket ends around the little finger. Where the butt is placed in the hand, especially fat pad or around the little finger, affects the forearm to racket angle. Try it with a racket.[\QUOTE]

Buttcap end is slightly lower than my pinky. That is my pinky wraps the innclined part of the buttcap. So i ma holding that racket furthest to its end than most info is written on line. That said you got it right. My forearm angle of ration seems to be off vs my wrist lag angle. Lately i have been trying to force my wirst angle to change by pointing forcefully with the thumb towards the floor. Unfortunately this creates a problem that distorts my lag and gives my TE pain from the force applied.

3) Stroke, wrist, others. The stroke and wrist also affect how open the strings are.

Compare your forehand technique to high level forehands on average height balls with video.

There are more than one forehand techniques being used.

Look especially at the colored lines that indicate the angles of the racket approaching impact. Djokovic & Federer. These are in the second half of this article.
https://tennisspeedresearch.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part.html


If you have another forehand technique - that has your forearm in a different orientation at impact - do you want to change the grip to make it work?
I have filmed some slow mo and compared tho those red lines i am still below 90 degress when I spray the ball! And this is what i want to fix. I will read the artcile as i belive that this is a kinetic issue which must have a solution.

Thanks for the help
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
I use an EF because feels very comfortable to me and mmuch more than other grips i have tried (SW). My problem is that many times during the lag (naturally geneated with a completely loose wrist) my arm rotates in a way that racket face is too open to properly spin the ball and it generates sailing balls due to lack of spin. Anyone had this problem and any tips used to maintain a closed racket face? Not intersted to chnage grip at the moment and change thw entire swing.
Pretty hard to say anything substantive without video (or at least photo) evidence of what you're doing.

I'll say that Federer and Del Potro are good models for top pros who hit very modern forehands using an eastern grip. When you talk about "lag," it says to me you are probably trying to hit in this way, with often semi-open stances, heavy spin, and follow through across the body.

If you hit more classically, with neutral stance as often as possible, flatter spin rates, and low-to-high, over the shoulder follow through, Sampras and Lendl are good models.

The mechanics are very different for the two types of strokes. With particular respect to being too open at contact, the modern forehand tends to be much more closed (often nearly parallel to the court) at the point where the forward swing/uncoiling begins. The classical stroke is more often only slightly closed -- often close to perpendicular to the court -- at the same point.

My guess (and that's all it can be w/o evidence) is that you're trying to hit a more modern Fed style FH, but your takeback is putting you in more of a perpendicular Sampras position. If that happens to be the case, you can probably cure that particular ill by focusing on performing a takeback that points the racquet face more downward as the swing begins. But do post a pic or two if you can.
 
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Pretty hard to say anything substantive without video (or at least photo) evidence of what you're doing.

I'll say that Federer and Del Potro are good models for top pros who hit very modern forehands using an eastern grip. When you talk about "lag," it says to me you are probably trying to hit in this way, with often semi-open stances, heavy spin, and follow through across the body.

If you hit more classically, with neutral stance as often as possible, flatter spin rates, and low-to-high, over the shoulder follow through, Sampras and Lendl are good models.

The mechanics are very different for the two types of strokes. With particular respect to being too open at contact, the modern forehand tends to be much more closed (often nearly parallel to the court) at the point where the forward swing/uncoiling begins. The classical stroke is more often only slightly closed -- often close to perpendicular to the court -- at the same point.

My guess (and that's all it can be w/o evidence) is that you're trying to hit a more modern Fed style FH, but your takeback is putting you in more of a perpendicular Sampras position. If that happens to be the case, you can probably cure that particular ill by focusing on performing a takeback that points the racquet face more downward as the swing begins. But do post a pic or two if you can.

I will tryo to post a short video. Until,then i read the suggested blog by Chas and found it very very useful. Seems that on take back and before FFM i do pronate my shoulder and therefore racket face looks at the ground whe hand drops. My problem begins at the time i initiate the swing movement. Instead of maintaining the shoulder pronation, i go into supination since my elbow vs my wrist leads te movement. It is the opening face inertia generated by the supinatioN that causes the problem which becomes bigger in cases where i arm the ball. So now I have an idea that I need to try to maintain the pronation instead of trying to fix my issue by forcing the wrist.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
Try closing your racket at prep just a bit. Watch the Australian pro NIck Kyrgios video. See how he leads back with his R elbow and closes (FH side of stringbed facing ground) the stringbed just a bit. This should prevent you from opening the face at contact. You don't have to go crazy with this. Try leading back with the elbow, keeping the off hand on the throat and close the face a small bit at prep. Then take a continuous swing from there to contact.

The Djokovic photos above are good too. Djoko and Federer and Nadal and probably most all ATP players are 5 to 15 degrees closed right at contact. I've never really tried to focus or practice this as I think it is more a function of grip and swing path. Certainly, DO NOT try to close the face over the top of the ball as some might interpret the photo.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
You also might want to try an E/SW hybrid. Put the index knuckle lower on bevel 3 or right on the bevel 3/4 joint. The heel pad at the bottom on the hand can be on lower bevel 3 or bevel 4. Moving the grip just a bit from pure E toward SW will tend to close the face around impact. I use this type of grip. It is neither pure E or full SW but between the 2.
 

Tennisanity

Legend
I will tryo to post a short video. Until,then i read the suggested blog by Chas and found it very very useful. Seems that on take back and before FFM i do pronate my shoulder and therefore racket face looks at the ground whe hand drops. My problem begins at the time i initiate the swing movement. Instead of maintaining the shoulder pronation, i go into supination since my elbow vs my wrist leads te movement. It is the opening face inertia generated by the supinatioN that causes the problem which becomes bigger in cases where i arm the ball. So now I have an idea that I need to try to maintain the pronation instead of trying to fix my issue by forcing the wrist.
Huh? When you initiate the swing it is supposed to go into supination, you don't maintain pronation. That's the so called 'flip'.
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
I will tryo to post a short video. Until,then i read the suggested blog by Chas and found it very very useful. Seems that on take back and before FFM i do pronate my shoulder and therefore racket face looks at the ground whe hand drops. My problem begins at the time i initiate the swing movement. Instead of maintaining the shoulder pronation, i go into supination since my elbow vs my wrist leads te movement. It is the opening face inertia generated by the supinatioN that causes the problem which becomes bigger in cases where i arm the ball. So now I have an idea that I need to try to maintain the pronation instead of trying to fix my issue by forcing the wrist.
I think you get yourself twisted into knots when you try to learn sports movements from biology textbooks, but if it works for you I'm all for it.
 

RetroSpin

Hall of Fame
Huh? When you initiate the swing it is supposed to go into supination, you don't maintain pronation. That's the so called 'flip'.
He probably doesn't get his wrist extended. When he goes into supination, his face opens up. I think this is one reason most pros use a SW grip. Fed has extraordinary joint mobility. DelPro hits a kind of hybrid modern/old school Fh. He gets a lot of lag but he doesn't get the racquet facing the court at PTD. I think his stroke is a good model, particularly for old school players who are not confortable with a Sw grip and dynamic lagging.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
With a loose grip, when the racquet lags (due to rapid acceleration at the beginning of the forward swing), your hitting arm will supinate.

You're supposed to pronate to contact, and continue to pronate in the follow through.
 
Guys I want to thank you for the comments which allowed me to find something of a fix to this issue. I have had as it seems bad technique (which in my mind is highly correlated to an improper use of biomechanics). Even you did not see any video most of your comments were spot on! I will report back in a couple of days with a video so you can check the fixed state.

Thanks again.
 

Pete Player

Hall of Fame
Fede and Del Potro hits their forehands palm against the target, but Nole among few others knuckles first, yet the grip might be the same.

If you hit knuckles first, it's more like an upper cut in boxing. And the racket head loop happen in very small space.

Contact is closer to body line than when hitting your palm towards the target. The culprit is that you cannot really reach as far in front of your body, in that position.

To my experience, when the timing is off, it's harder to addjust when you have wrist in flexion than extension.

So if you spray it, you need to figure the body orientation first, then fix the desired contact position and the amount of ulnar deviation to fix the direction of the racket face.

To me it is virtually impossible to hit forehands like Nole, but teenagers and girls often prefer that over the flexed wrist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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