Eh, pushers...

loosegroove

loosegroove

Hall of Fame
Do people really enjoy playing pushers? I find it to be such a boring match. Maybe I'm just a mindless wannabe baseline basher, but playing singles against a pusher takes much of the fun out of tennis for me. And this isn't a bitter rant from someone who just lost to a pusher, actually we just played a super tie break which I won, even after becoming bored half way through. Maybe I should just use it as an opportunity to work on my patience, and my slice.
 
Every time I feel I've made some significant improvement in my development as a player, I like to play a match against a pusher as they will quickly expose weaknesses in your game.

You can also use the match as an opportunity to try things that you may not do very often e.g. drop shots, chip-n-charge on the return of serve, serve-n-volley, etc

I definitely try to see every match as a challenge and not as a bore. As the saying goes "A bad day on the tennis court is better than a good day in the office!" ;)
 
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It can be boring..I hit with one yesterday and played points. It is annoying, but what I do to end it quick is this:

1. Deep shot to corner, follow with a few steps inside baseline since I know he will hit a weak reply

2. Hit reply early to opposite corner, crash net behind shot

3. Put away volley if needed.

4. Rinse and repeat.

It actually becomes ok since I look at it as practicing the basics.

And it slowly crushes their soul which I enjoy as well.
 
Hate em. Back in the day I would look at them as a puzzle to solve. Now I simply get bored and make a note to remove them from my play list if possible. Perhaps I am just getting cranky as I age.
 
What is annoying is one of the guys I play (nice guy but...) always has to act like we split points in practice and he was somehow beating me if I made a mistake or something. He always says how he beats guys 20 times in a row, or guys never beat him, so I got pissed and just used the pusher formula to make him understand he was not really beating anybody that day.

Even if he was the only guy to serve the whole time, I would still win 75% of the points, which IMO is a beating.

I just think it's funny when a hardcore pusher is telling people how he wins all the time..kind of annoying to me. Most guys I know who hit hard and win are humble about it.
 
Power Player said:
What is annoying is one of the guys I play (nice guy but...) always has to act like we split points in practice and he was somehow beating me if I made a mistake or something. He always says how he beats guys 20 times in a row, or guys never beat him, so I got pissed and just used the pusher formula to make him understand he was not really beating anybody that day.

Even if he was the only guy to serve the whole time, I would still win 75% of the points, which IMO is a beating.

I just think it's funny when a hardcore pusher is telling people how he wins all the time..kind of annoying to me. Most guys I know who hit hard and win are humble about it.
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i win 95% of my matches
 
loosegroove said:
Do people really enjoy playing pushers? I find it to be such a boring match. Maybe I'm just a mindless wannabe baseline basher, but playing singles against a pusher takes much of the fun out of tennis for me. And this isn't a bitter rant from someone who just lost to a pusher, actually we just played a super tie break which I won, even after becoming bored half way through. Maybe I should just use it as an opportunity to work on my patience, and my slice.
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sour grapes! if you cant beat them, join them.
 
Ha PP, that's funny. Sounds exactly like the pusher I play against. I think they have the tennis equivalent of Naploeon complex, knowing that they really don't have the game that they'd like to have. Because lets be real, pushers push because that's pretty much all they can do, not because they have all the shots but prefer to push. I just lack the focus and discipline to really punish pushers point after point, and I let my game level drop.
 
The reason pushing makes me mad is that someone never really learned how to play the game and gave up at some point on ever progressing. It's that lack of respect for the game which I don't like.

It's like watching a guy take a 1950's style set shot or shoot underhanded in basketball. It might be effective up to a point, but you look stupid doing it.
 
I wouldn't say I enjoy playing pushers, but there is value in practicing with them. They will make you run/work for the point and you get to a hit a lot more balls. Also, as loosegroove pointed out his mental lapses, they are good for working on staying focused on every point.
 
I played a match last night where I was playing my power A game pretty well and still was getting blown off the court. My opponent was in the zone and making some amazing shots. I was down two breaks and in desperation went into my D game, which is no pace, no spin, just-put-the-ball deep, pusher, junk ball, and came back to win in a tiebreak. Boy, was he sore. Does this mean I'm going to Hell?
 
Wow, what a group of selfless and altruistic individuals! So concerned about the progress in tennis that their opponents may not be able to achieve. You guys are clearly better human beings than I am.

Personally, I like playing tennis a lot. If I am playing a Match, I really like to win. Whether the other guy tries to hit winners all day (and misses a lot of them) or whether he plays high percentage shots, tennis is about winning, not style points while losing.
 
Power Player said:
It can be boring..I hit with one yesterday and played points. It is annoying, but what I do to end it quick is this:

1. Deep shot to corner, follow with a few steps inside baseline since I know he will hit a weak reply

2. Hit reply early to opposite corner, crash net behind shot

3. Put away volley if needed.

4. Rinse and repeat.

It actually becomes ok since I look at it as practicing the basics.

And it slowly crushes their soul which I enjoy as well.
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do you find the black drive and rip control best suited for such a beastly style of play?
 
NE1for10is? said:
I played a match last night where I was playing my power A game pretty well and still was getting blown off the court. My opponent was in the zone and making some amazing shots. I was down two breaks and in desperation went into my D game, which is no pace, no spin, just-put-the-ball deep, pusher, junk ball, and came back to win in a tiebreak. Boy, was he sore. Does this mean I'm going to Hell?
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Not at all..you can see by the negative comments by pushing, luckyr..etc that assume some of are mad because we lose to them. Not at all. If you win with pushing then your opponent was probably not as amazing as you thought.

The facts are that a true pusher (not andy murray..etc) is a 4.0 or below. Well placed consistent shots will defeat them as I outlined above.

Your opponent's shots broke down when you no paced him because his consistency is not as good in that circumstance. I dont see anything wrong with it if you win and made a strategic adjustment. It just means you are smart enough to adjust your game and win.
 
Power Player said:
Not at all..you can see by the negative comments by pushing, luckyr..etc that assume some of are mad because we lose to them. Not at all. If you win with pushing then your opponent was probably not as amazing as you thought.

The facts are that a true pusher (not andy murray..etc) is a 4.0 or below. Well placed consistent shots will defeat them as I outlined above.

Your opponent's shots broke down when you no paced him because his consistency is not as good in that circumstance. I dont see anything wrong with it if you win and made a strategic adjustment. It just means you are smart enough to adjust your game and win.
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that is a wrong assumption on your part
 
goran_ace said:
I wouldn't say I enjoy playing pushers, but there is value in practicing with them. They will make you run/work for the point and you get to a hit a lot more balls. Also, as loosegroove pointed out his mental lapses, they are good for working on staying focused on every point.
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I agree with this 100%.
 
goran_ace said:
I wouldn't say I enjoy playing pushers, but there is value in practicing with them. They will make you run/work for the point and you get to a hit a lot more balls. Also, as loosegroove pointed out his mental lapses, they are good for working on staying focused on every point.
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I agree and would also say that playing pushers will likely turn your overhead into a weapon. Mine was not very good for a long time. They also help improve your volleys because I don't want to play 40 shot rallies every point. :)
 
Yeah playing pusher is a bit boring at times. But it provides an opportunity to see where my weaknesses are.

It's a good time to practice S/V, Chip/Charge, consistency and stroke mechanic to generate my own pace rather than feeding off pace.
 
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pushing_wins said:
how come you never see a thread like "eh...ball bashers"

there is something about winning ugly that is so gratifying
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You can always mix some different looks/dropshots/spins into your game to win, but lobbing/dropshotting on every single point makes you an embarrassment to the game.

Pushers are the equivalent of the loud, red faced guy in the plaid jacket at the party that people look at and shake their head.
 
Power Player said:
Not at all..you can see by the negative comments by pushing, luckyr..etc that assume some of are mad because we lose to them. Not at all. If you win with pushing then your opponent was probably not as amazing as you thought.

The facts are that a true pusher (not andy murray..etc) is a 4.0 or below. Well placed consistent shots will defeat them as I outlined above.

Your opponent's shots broke down when you no paced him because his consistency is not as good in that circumstance. I dont see anything wrong with it if you win and made a strategic adjustment. It just means you are smart enough to adjust your game and win.
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Now you're just making up your own definition of "pusher" as someone who can't progress for the sole purpose of bashing it. In reality, "pushing" is an approach to the game where you are going to play safe shots and wait for the other guy to make the mistake to win points. Pushers do progress and develop as they advance levels, but once you get beyond the 4.0 to low-4.5 level, the pushers aren't playing the same pitty-pat game that you see in 3.0 or 3.5 because the opponents can hit winners with too much regularity for that to work. However, at every level, you see players just sit back and hit defensive shots that you can't put away until you miss before they do (and only very rarely go for winners themselves). That's still "pushing", just at a higher level.
 
What the heck is a pusher?

Don't answer it. It's a rhetorical question. Your answer is usually useless and confusing and not everyone can agree on. The closest definition of a pusher is someone who's very consistent, frustrates you and beats you.

The tools that pushers use to beat you are usually very limited. In fact, probably just one tool -- place the ball back in court with decent placement.

What else do I miss?
 
J_R_B said:
However, at every level, you see players just sit back and hit defensive shots that you can't put away until you miss before they do (and only very rarely go for winners themselves). That's still "pushing", just at a higher level.
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Dude, you call that "pushing" but I call that true competition, the kind that is played all the way at the top! Sport is ultimately about competing athleticism. If someone can outrun and outlast by one more shot, that means a) he's more athletic, b) you aint much in the skill dept. All sports comply to these two truisms, no?
 
J_R_B said:
Now you're just making up your own definition of "pusher" as someone who can't progress for the sole purpose of bashing it. In reality, "pushing" is an approach to the game where you are going to play safe shots and wait for the other guy to make the mistake to win points. Pushers do progress and develop as they advance levels, but once you get beyond the 4.0 to low-4.5 level, the pushers aren't playing the same pitty-pat game that you see in 3.0 or 3.5 because the opponents can hit winners with too much regularity for that to work. However, at every level, you see players just sit back and hit defensive shots that you can't put away until you miss before they do (and only very rarely go for winners themselves). That's still "pushing", just at a higher level.
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The bold part was my point. Those are the guys we are talking about.

Also if you read my strategy I use against them , it is obvious that is the player I am describing.
 
jdubbs said:
The reason pushing makes me mad is that someone never really learned how to play the game and gave up at some point on ever progressing. It's that lack of respect for the game which I don't like.
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Lack of respect for the game? How do you figure that?

Not everybody's striving to improve their technique, it's true. I don't see how that equals not respecting the game (whatever that means).

Does it also make you angry to see a couple of kids just bopping the ball around for fun with old racquets? Is Grandma showing a "lack of respect" for knitting because she just makes the same old afghans over and over again? Dangit Grandma, show some respect for your hobby and try a sweater or something!

The pusher threads always seem to bring out the wackiness.
 
I enjoy playing pushers. They can really put your skills to the test. Knowledge of high percentage tennis is the key to success against accomplished pushers. The top ranked men's open player in Florida is a classic pusher. He rarely loses.
 
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user92626 said:
Dude, you call that "pushing" but I call that true competition, the kind that is played all the way at the top! Sport is ultimately about competing athleticism. If someone can outrun and outlast by one more shot, that means a) he's more athletic, b) you aint much in the skill dept. All sports comply to these two truisms, no?
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I don't use "pusher" as a derogatory term. Of course it's true competition. My point is that is what lower level pitty pat pushers become as they progress and get better. If it's the same people playing with the same mentality as they get better, why would they be pushers at one level and not at another? You guys need to embrace pusher as a legitimate player type, since it is. If you want a less stigmatized word, use "retriever" instead. It's the same thing.
 
Guys, you need pushers to your game if you want to improve your mental strength. Keep improving your technique elsewhere but playing a game with pusher is something different. It will test your abilities.:)

PS: One thing I know pushers absolutely hate, is heavy topspin deep, high bouncing ball.:twisted:
 
jdubbs said:
You can always mix some different looks/dropshots/spins into your game to win, but lobbing/dropshotting on every single point makes you an embarrassment to the game.

People who complain about pushers are the equivalent of the loud, red faced guy in the plaid jacket at the party that people look at and shake their head.
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Oh. Please. And I fixed your post.
 
J_R_B said:
I don't use "pusher" as a derogatory term. Of course it's true competition. My point is that is what lower level pitty pat pushers become as they progress and get better. If it's the same people playing with the same mentality as they get better, why would they be pushers at one level and not at another? You guys need to embrace pusher as a legitimate player type, since it is. If you want a less stigmatized word, use "retriever" instead. It's the same thing.
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We agreed then. Good point: If it's the same people playing with the same mentality as they get better, why would they be pushers at one level and not at another?


I think the discrepancy comes from the fact that rec tennis is so wild, unorthodox and results are non-sensical, it gives losers alot of excuses and face-saving mechanisms for their losses. Pro levels do not have this problem cuz results speak for themselves. They'll get laughed at if the losers say they get bored or their losses aren't legit because Murray or Nadal keeps hitting the ball back, very boring!
 
Pushers are shameless. They enjoy watching others self destruct. That's why I use my awesome voodoo mind skills to curse them. That'll teach em' to push me...take that pusher!
 
I find it incredibly boring to play mindless ball bashers. I hate having to retrieve the ball as it bounces off the "ivy".
 
Work on a consistent big forehand. Hit serves wide and come in and volley them away. Hit with spin. Hit weird nasty slices that move laterally. Try to cut down ue's. Stay patient. This is my antidote
 
At the 3.5 level you want to play a so called 'pusher' because these guys can actually rally.

What's USUALLY going on is guys who can't keep the ball in the court and shank balls several courts over consider themselves hard hitters and get angry when they lose to the average competent 3.5 guy who is basically a 'pusher'..

What they don't seem to realize is that alot of times that 'pusher' could probably hit harder then they could - but instead they play to win the match..

Once you can really hit out and keep the ball in the court your level jumps past 3.5 where most pushers live..and thus you don't hear much complaints about 5.0 pushers..

And even when those guys do exist the better player relishes the opportunity because they can win a bunch of points with powerful overheads and deft volleys. That's a fun change of pace when you are good.
 
GuyClinch said:
At the 3.5 level you want to play a so called 'pusher' because these guys can actually rally.

What's USUALLY going on is guys who can't keep the ball in the court and shank balls several courts over consider themselves hard hitters and get angry when they lose to the average competent 3.5 guy who is basically a 'pusher'..

What they don't seem to realize is that alot of times that 'pusher' could probably hit harder then they could - but instead they play to win the match..

Once you can really hit out and keep the ball in the court your level jumps past 3.5 where most pushers live..and thus you don't hear much complaints about 5.0 pushers..

And even when those guys do exist the better player relishes the opportunity because they can win a bunch of points with powerful overheads and deft volleys. That's a fun change of pace when you are good.
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Agree with everything that is said here...
 
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