Eh, pushers...

Lack of respect for the game? How do you figure that?

Not everybody's striving to improve their technique, it's true. I don't see how that equals not respecting the game (whatever that means).

Does it also make you angry to see a couple of kids just bopping the ball around for fun with old racquets? Is Grandma showing a "lack of respect" for knitting because she just makes the same old afghans over and over again? Dangit Grandma, show some respect for your hobby and try a sweater or something!

The pusher threads always seem to bring out the wackiness.

Completely agree with your post (especially the bolded part).

Just want to add that pushers have an inherent psychological advantage. Their strokes are usually not as pretty as their opponent's. The opponent thinks he should win and when he starts losing, he gets upset, which makes him play even worse. My suggestion to beating pushers (who are at your level) is to respect them and know that you will have to "work" to win the match.
 
I enjoy playing pushers. They can really put your skills to the test. Knowledge of high percentage tennis is the key to success against accomplished pushers. The top ranked men's open player in Florida is a classic pusher. He rarely loses.


i choose to push, but i also have more power than you in reserve. would you still consider me a pusher?
 
i choose to push, but i also have more power than you in reserve. would you still consider me a pusher?

Dude, you're unreal.


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i choose to push, but i also have more power than you in reserve. would you still consider me a pusher?

If you choose to push, you're a pusher. Some pushers can crush the ball when they want to. But, that's not how they win. They have a better chance of winning by pushing. If you push against me, however, you're probably going to do a lot more running than I am.
 
Pushers enjoy winning.

However, there's nothing about pushing per se that is wrong as far as the game is concerned.
 
Everybody enjoys winning.:)
I don't mind losing if I played well or could take something out of the match; all I'm saying is that pushers love winning to the point where they'd do anything to achieve it, barring cheating.
 
At the 3.5 level you want to play a so called 'pusher' because these guys can actually rally.

What's USUALLY going on is guys who can't keep the ball in the court and shank balls several courts over consider themselves hard hitters and get angry when they lose to the average competent 3.5 guy who is basically a 'pusher'..

What they don't seem to realize is that alot of times that 'pusher' could probably hit harder then they could - but instead they play to win the match..


Once you can really hit out and keep the ball in the court your level jumps past 3.5 where most pushers live..and thus you don't hear much complaints about 5.0 pushers..

And even when those guys do exist the better player relishes the opportunity because they can win a bunch of points with powerful overheads and deft volleys. That's a fun change of pace when you are good.

This, this, a thousand times this.
 
Apparently the pushers topics presses a few hot buttons on this forum. Anyway, win or lose, I was just saying I don't enjoy playing pushers that much. I want to play them maybe once every great while to prove to myself I can focus and play to my strengths against a "winning ugly" type of player. Though even with a win, it's really not very fun for me compared to playing against a fellow hitter, and I don't feel like going back for more. Maybe after a loss I'd want to play again soon for redemption. But that all falls back to just wanting to win, and not really the "fun" aspect of tennis, which for most of us is what tennis is all about.
 
And BTW, I don't agree that most pushers can hit harder than others at the lower levels 3.0-4.0. Actually I believe quite the opposite for a majority of players.
 
The pusher threads amuse me.It seems that some really hate them and say it's not real tennis.

I have been playing and watching tennis for 30 years and something that is obvious about the scoring system of tennis and the beauty of it is to keep the score close.Even an inferior player will have opportunities against a superior one.
A big server can even choke at 4-4 all.However we all know winning the vital points is what seperates the men from the boys.
I have played lots of guys who are my friends,a lot of them can't hit a top spin shot to save their lives.Some are just purely afraid to put heat on a ball and out of motive of just getting a game in they resort to keeping it in play.
This keeps the score close even if you have shall we say it a technically superior game,but you still have to win the points.
Tennis is mental and I question the mental strength of those who avoid any player.I will be the first to admit that I like to play a real player someone who hits with decent pace,it grooves me quickly and I can mix games styles.
No pace dead balls are far harder to hit,and pushers will always make you play a level below your best.
Look at the early rounds of any slam and even some of the top guys can bore the pants off me with a less than stellar performance.
I accept that I will hit more errors first,but I know that I can't be outhit.Second I go and take up a really advanced position inside the baseline.Taking it on the rise will at least give you a little more pace and timing,easier to time a moving ball than a hanging one.
Sidespin,droppers,volley's all become easy shots to hit off a pusher,and now you are closer to the net to hit these.
I believe I can intimidate pushing styles with my forehand,go out and boss the game with it and ignore the mistakes unless you are missing it more than getting it in.

One amusing thing for me is that some guys I have beat say after the game that we are close,and no one was much better at tennis than the other,hilarious considering that I win more often than not,but really it's just a lack of knowledge about the margains of tennis.You rarely have a blow-out,great when you win 6-0,6-1 but those days are few and far between,I look at as dictating a course of a match,the score is secondary
 
by definition, a pusher is a player who plays very safe and lacks power. I would agree that it could be boring to play against low level pushers whom you could beat easily but if you could not beat them easily, why is that boring? Since they are not going to go for the winners, you get to do that and control everything that happens in the match.
 
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My contempt isn't about whether pushing is "real tennis" (it is), or whether they can beat me (some can, some can't), it's that pushers simply suck all the fun out of the game. Period.
 
Most adult pushers I don't even play anymore. After the double bagels I served them the last 2 matches they don't ask me to play them again. In fact if I'm at the club and no one else is around they still won't play me even if I am asking for a fun match.

So learn to beat them ruthlessly and you won't have to ever play a hack again. Its fun anyways after your skills are up to par. You just run them silly. Its not fun for them.
 
I actually don't mind playing pushers, they have a skill set which I need to incorporate more into my game ... patience.

However, I have made one observation about them. If I lose to a pusher then they are always available to play me any time any day. They are generally eager to beat me over and over again.

Once I beat a pusher they lose my number. It seems to me that winning is so much more important than getting better to them, that once I have proved I will beat them they have no interest in playing me. This has happened 3 or 4 times over the last 5 years ... I find it funny.
 
There's a guy who sometimes would play at the courts in neighborhood. he's a power hitter who also could hit drop shots very well. None of the pushers could handle him because of his powershot/dropshot combination. On top of that, he could serve pretty big.

One day, a super pusher showed up at the court and beat him convincingly in straight sets :shock:
the super pusher played a lot like Mats Wilander.
 
However, I have made one observation about them. If I lose to a pusher then they are always available to play me any time any day. They are generally eager to beat me over and over again.

Once I beat a pusher they lose my number. It seems to me that winning is so much more important than getting better to them, that once I have proved I will beat them they have no interest in playing me. This has happened 3 or 4 times over the last 5 years ... I find it funny.

so so true!
I used to hit with a pusher all the time, we called him the human backboard. He was a good 4.0, won a couple of tournaments. At first he would beat me in straights, maybe 4 and 3? After a while it got to the point when we would split sets. Then once I beat him.
After that we 'just hit'.
Ultimately we stopped 'just hitting'. Too bad, he was reliable and never wore out. But I kept improving, and he didn't change his game. It likely ceased being fun for him. For me it was superb practice, and it was great for improvement. He just wanted to win.
 
Ding, ding, ding! We have a weener!

No. A lot of us posted how we beat these players routinely.

The OP simply said it is more pleasurable to play someone who can bring pace to the table in a match than someone who just gets it back. A lot of people misread and got defensive.
 
I love playing a "good" pusher when I need a mental strength workout. I am a proud former pusher so I know their games very well.:)

My game is all about taking my opponents out of his/her comfort zone so I may play each point differently which works great for me.
 
i played someone who admits that he is a pusher, and he told me that he just absorbs the pace and redirects it and how he just pokes it back into play. hes also good at the pop up lob. not that bad of a player hes the number 1 at the hs. beat him 6-4 6-2. But it was like playing brad gilbert out there, id just fire away and hed run and pop it back in the middle of the court.

i knew that i could out power him, so i challenged his forehand so he started hitting with pace which made it easier for me to crank up a big shot.its like a chess match
 
No. A lot of us posted how we beat these players routinely.

The OP simply said it is more pleasurable to play someone who can bring pace to the table in a match than someone who just gets it back. A lot of people misread and got defensive.

It depends on the pusher. Some pushers will double bagel you and make you wish for an oxygen tank while their at it.
 
It depends on the pusher. Some pushers will double bagel you and make you wish for an oxygen tank while their at it.

Lol this is exactly how I like to play. I used to get really nervous in the real matches so I decided to stop thinking about winning/losing so much and focusing on giving my opponents a workout instead. :twisted:
 
The OP simply said it is more pleasurable to play someone who can bring pace to the table in a match than someone who just gets it back. A lot of people misread and got defensive.

That's weird, I thought there was someone in here claiming that pushers tend to be more arrogant than guys who hit hard. Lemme go back and check the thread...

Power Player said:
I just think it's funny when a hardcore pusher is telling people how he wins all the time..kind of annoying to me. Most guys I know who hit hard and win are humble about it.

Oh yeah, that's right.

And then somebody responded to that guy---

loosegroove said:
Ha PP, that's funny. Sounds exactly like the pusher I play against. I think they have the tennis equivalent of Naploeon complex, knowing that they really don't have the game that they'd like to have.

Hey wait, wasn't that the OP??

Then I thought there was a dude who claimed that pushers make him mad because they are disrespecting the game. Maybe I was misreading that though...

Seriously, it's kind of lame when players, at any level, try to act like their style of tennis makes them somehow superior. It's lame when it's Verdasco talking about Raonic, and it's lame when it's self-proclaimed "hitters" at rec level complaining about the pushers in their midst. Behavior like that is going to rub people the wrong way, always.
 
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Wow, this has taken a bitter turn. I simply started by saying I don't like playing pushers as much. I know there are many out there that will school me, and many out there that I will school. But win or lose, it's not as much a pleasure for me to play. Hell, even the pusher I mainly play against doesn't like playing other pushers, what are you going to say about him?

And of course I'm not saying all pushers have a "Napoleon Complex", but was referring to the two pushers that Power Player and I play, since they both exhibit similar qualities. How am I being villianized? Apparently this thread makes some people hella defensive (yes, I am a grown made and just used the term "hella").
 
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That's weird, I thought there was someone in here claiming that pushers tend to be more arrogant than guys who hit hard. Lemme go back and check the thread...



Oh yeah, that's right.

And then somebody responded to that guy---



Hey wait, wasn't that the OP??

Then I thought there was a dude who claimed that pushers make him mad because they are disrespecting the game. Maybe I was misreading that though...

Seriously, it's kind of lame when players, at any level, try to act like their style of tennis makes them somehow superior. It's lame when it's Verdasco talking about Raonic, and it's lame when it's self-proclaimed "hitters" at rec level complaining about the pushers in their midst. Behavior like that is going to rub people the wrong way, always.

For being so smug you should learn to read better. I was talking about one guy in particular that I play,not everyone in general. I also said more than once that I still like to play any style of player because you have to execute your gameplan to beat them.

I appreciate the effort, but you may want to reread what I said instead of glossing over and making assumptions.
 
Wow, this has taken a bitter turn. I simply started by saying I don't like playing pushers as much. I know there are many out there that will school me, and many out there that I will school. But win or lose, it's not as much a pleasure for me to play. Hell, even the pusher I mainly play against doesn't like playing other pushers, what are you going to say about him?

And of course I'm not saying all pushers have a "Napoleon Complex", but was referring to the two pushers that Power Player and I play. How am I being villianized?

I understood exactly what you said. It makes total sense. A lot of people get insecure about these topics and misinterpret the post because see the word pusher. It happens in every pusher thread.
 
I understood exactly what you said. It makes total sense. A lot of people get insecure about these topics and misinterpret the post because see the word pusher. It happens in every pusher thread.

pusher are incsecure about choking. ball bashers overcompensate reflecting deeper incsecrity.
 
I just played a pusher recently who tried to actually hit harder and work on his shot making abilities.

In the first set, he was hitting decently hard and trying to go for shots and play good tennis. I won that set because we were playing fast paced rallies.

The final two sets, my opponent decided that it was time to win, not to play tennis.

Really, pushers use what they have so they can win. It's never usually about tennis - it's about winning. They can be annoying to play, and I preferably choose to avoid them. However, I play them if I have to or if there is no one else.
 
People get mad at pushers because they expose a player's inability to finish a point.

You can either get better at finishing a point or ***** about it at a forum like this.

Most people around here choose the latter.
 
Do people really enjoy playing pushers? I find it to be such a boring match.

I think your mindset's all wrong to begin with. You need to look at it as the perfect opportunity to practise your stroking, technique and your pressuring, attacking game, your ability to finish points, whilst all the while maintaining your focus and concentration.
 
Ha, ha I love reading this thread. It's a pop corn time:)
It always amuses me when players whine about losing to pushers. It's not tennis..blah, blah, blah. I admit, it's not always enjoyable to play them but it does show a massive holes in your game.
Recently I witnessed a game. An old guy I think 60+ vs young hope regularly coached. The old man wiped him 6:4,6:1. In the first set he was down 1:4.
It was so amusing I had to watch the whole thing. The young guy started with so much power and confidence, I thought it will be over in few minutes. Until the breakthrough. The old guy implanted a little self doubt into his much younger unexperienced opponent, when he returned couple of incredible balls of the serve.
Just to give you a bit of an insight: This old man plays tennis for a long long time. He reads the game really well but as all pushers he has no pace in his shots. He developed his own technique, which works for him. He actually loves his opponent's pace and harder you hit, better he gets. I would say his main attributes are his mental toughness, rarely makes mistake and he almost always hits the ball on the sweet spot. I don't know how he does it.
Back to the game, the young guy started hitting even harder when he lost a few points in a row. His frustration kept increasing and on top of it he started spraying balls all over the place so the UE crept up as well.
So, this is what I meant, when I said it previously, you need pushers to your game. If your game has any holes or inadequacies, playing a pusher will definitely expose them.
 
I'm still blown away that anyone thought this thread was whining about losing to pushers. Simply rereading the OP clearly shows no one lost to a pusher. That is not what the thread is about.
 
This old man plays tennis for a long long time. He reads the game really well but as all pushers he has no pace in his shots. He developed his own technique, which works for him. He actually loves his opponent's pace and harder you hit, better he gets. I would say his main attributes are his mental toughness, rarely makes mistake and he almost always hits the ball on the sweet spot.

Alot of older former 'team' players play like that. There's a guy who runs one of drilling sessions that I go who was the men's 1st team captain for many, many years in his youth and plays a very smart game. Constantly looks for depth, constantly thinking about where he's going to be hitting the next ball, has alot of variation, great touch, and approaches and volleys incredibly well and hardly makes an errors.

He makes everything looks simple and effortless, and unless you're completely on top of your game, serving well, and with a constant, pressuring, attacking ground game and low UE count, you're really in danger of losing. The guy's got to be in his 60s. I would never describe him as a 'pusher' though. This is a high level player who's spent his entire life playing a high level of tennis.
 
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Do people really enjoy playing pushers? I find it to be such a boring match. Maybe I'm just a mindless wannabe baseline basher, but playing singles against a pusher takes much of the fun out of tennis for me. And this isn't a bitter rant from someone who just lost to a pusher, actually we just played a super tie break which I won, even after becoming bored half way through. Maybe I should just use it as an opportunity to work on my patience, and my slice.

I have a pusher friend who complains about having to play other pushers since the matches take so long.

:)

I no longer mind playing pushers since I've focused on learning how to beat them.

But for those who hate pushers know this: when they meet one of their own, such as my friend, they create their own "6-7, 7-6, 6-7, Four Hour Hell On Earth". ;)
 
I'm still blown away that anyone thought this thread was whining about losing to pushers. Simply rereading the OP clearly shows no one lost to a pusher. That is not what the thread is about.

I didn't mean players in this thread whining about losing to pushers. I meant it in general because that's what happens in real life. I play tennis comps for many years and I've seen a lot of it. Trust me. And I'm sure there's a bunch of players in this thread that can tell you the same type of story.
 
I didn't mean players in this thread whining about losing to pushers. I meant it in general because that's what happens in real life. I play tennis comps for many years and I've seen a lot of it. Trust me. And I'm sure there's a bunch of players in this thread that can tell you the same type of story.

to me, tennis is problem solving. unlike some people here, i love to play against players whose styles of play would give me problem. Well, at least those at my level. Winning or losing is not important for me, I am not a tennis pro :)
 
If you're playing tournaments or league matches it's all about winning. Although I enjoy much more hitting hard and going for sharp angles, aiming at the lines etc., I found out that whenever it counts my winning percentage is much higher when I avoid too much risks.
As a consequence I had to discipline myself. Today, when I'm playing a tourney, I try to hit 90% of my strokes through the middle, just try to keep the ball in play. Of course with some spin or reasonable pace, but the truth is that if you're not into pro tennis, keeping your UEs low is the key to winning.
My winning percentage against hard hitting, risk taking opponents is very high, since I have been following this strategy. Sometimes you'll run into a guy that has a superb day or ist just too good, but normally you'll win.

So for me pushing, if you want to call it that way, is ok.
 
I wrote the book on how to deal with pushers.

Yes, you flee the court. We've read your advice in another thread. You can't finish points without committing UEs so they beat you easily.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=411261

Here's your advice on pushers: "Personally, I think that is the only way to handle pushers and junk ballers; ignore them, don't play them..."

I think the OP is looking for advice from Skilled players who can beat pushers, not those such as you who quit in frustration and blame everything from court surfaces to their opponent's unwillingness to hit to their strike zone for their losses.

"Running Scared: My Life as a Pusher Victim" by TTMR

;)
 
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