Elbow problems with poly strings.

grover

Rookie
After spending a few months a year ago trying different soft poly strings for the first time my elbow has never recovered. Even after using a full bed of gut ever since. While the discomfort does not stop me from playing it is annoying.
I use a flexible frame and have played tennis for thirty five years and until now never had any elbow issues. Has anyone else had issues like mine after trying poly for the first time?
 

HBK4life

Hall of Fame
Yep. My arm hurts everyday. My doc gave me some arm workouts that have helped but I figure it will never go away. Price I pay.
 

TheRed

Hall of Fame
Yes, I've played tennis for 20 yrs. 7 yrs ago I tried poly (hybrid) for the first time and got tennis elbow pretty much within 2 hitting sessions. I played fantastic with it though (I hit with heavy spin). Stopped using poly. 2 yrs ago, heard about the "softer" generation of polys. Tried it and had tennis elbow after about 2 months (again, hybrid and I played fantastic). Stopped again. Currently, just started trying the newest generations of polys again (Let's see how things work out). I did go to gut after my 2nd go with polys and it helped my elbow a lot but frankly, the tightness in my elbow will likely never go away.
 

GlenK

Professional
I have been really fortunate. I have played with full bed polys for 3 years and had no elbow issues. I do use softer polys like Lux supersense. Played with it all of those 3 years till the last month or two.
It has been discontinued so I've played with Polystar energy, Scorpion, Lux M2, and WC B5E. No problems with any of these.
 

Hominator

Hall of Fame
After spending a few months a year ago trying different soft poly strings for the first time my elbow has never recovered. Even after using a full bed of gut ever since. While the discomfort does not stop me from playing it is annoying.
I use a flexible frame and have played tennis for thirty five years and until now never had any elbow issues. Has anyone else had issues like mine after trying poly for the first time?

You kind of have to let your arm heal completely first, which may mean not playing tennis for a few months. That was my experience.

Once your arm starts to feel better, buy a flex bar, made my thera-band, and strengthen your "TE muscles" by using it daily. It's cheap and effective. That's what a lot of us did to cure our TE.
 
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Carolina Racquet

Professional
Tennis elbow was around before poly strings and stiff frames so swing technique still has a big part in all of this.

With that said, I had to let my arm completely heal before I started playing competitively. I used an elbow brace and lower string tensions prior to getting back to a normal poly string setup at a normal tension.

For safe measure, I've added more weight to my frame and then went to a flexible frame.

For preventative measures, I'm doing a lot more strengthening and stretching routines while icing down after a lot of play, especially if I feel any type of 'twinge'.

My string advice is go low, low tension with a stiff poly string (my low tension favorite is Volkl Cyclone) and adapt to playing with it. It should be arm-friendly and you'll get the benefits you like from poly strings. I believe that RELATIVE tension matters more than string type alone. Higher string tensions pass more shock and stress to the arm.

Good luck.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
The best way to prevent te from coming back is to do a forearm workout 2-3 days a week. I have been able to avoid any relapse by keeping the forearm + wrist strong through weight training.

The thera band is good for rehab + prevention, but it is not enough. It can not match a full forearm workout including wrist curls, reverse curls, hammer curls, rope wrap up.

As far as poly goes i have been avoiding it for a few years. But i have started using it again. If you use the softest polys out there with a multi x's at low tension you should be okay. Right now i am using weiss cannon turbo twist 18 g. at 52 lbs. in a full bed with no problems, this is by far the most comfortable poly i have ever used.
 

weksa

Rookie
+1 to the things Carolina Racquet mentioned.

- let heal
- do exercises
- low low tensions on poly (me personally, high 40s)
 

eidolonshinobi

Professional
You kind of have to let your arm heal completely first, which may mean not playing tennis for a few months. That was my experience.

Once your arm starts to feel better, buy a flex bar, made my thera-band, and strengthen your "TE muscles" by using it daily. It's cheap and effective. That's what a lot of us did to cure our TE.

You really have to let it heal, I've got a bit of shoulder bursitis right now so the doc recommends I lay of serving/overheads for a few weeks or a couple months.

you'll only end up doing more damage if you dont.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I'm an advocate of putting mandatory warning labels on every package of poly strings just like they have to do with cigarettes.

Something like:

"Use of polyester strings may be detrimental to your health and result in severe bodily injury and an end to your tennis life."

:shock:
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Tennis elbow was around before poly strings and stiff frames so swing technique still has a big part in all of this.
That may be true, but when the same people with the same strokes get tennis elbow from using poly but not from using other softer strings, what else can it be but the poly strings?
 

bad_call

Legend
^ what Carolina posted. got TE on 2 occasions and both were with syn gut. not paying attention to technique did in my elbow.

been playing/testing poly for a good while now. if a poly starts to aggravate discard that one and cut it out. not worth the elbow pain. finally found the poly combo which works for this player in comfort and performance. :)
 

mikeler

Moderator
^ what Carolina posted. got TE on 2 occasions and both were with syn gut. not paying attention to technique did in my elbow.

been playing/testing poly for a good while now. if a poly starts to aggravate discard that one and cut it out. not worth the elbow pain. finally found the poly combo which works for this player in comfort and performance. :)


And thank you for sharing that setup with me. :)

Same here, if I feel any arm pain from any string setup it gets the scissors. I'd rather save my arm than my wallet.
 

bad_call

Legend
And thank you for sharing that setup with me. :)

Same here, if I feel any arm pain from any string setup it gets the scissors. I'd rather save my arm than my wallet.

glad to do so...especially for a fellow good guy and trader of beer/strings. :)

had a hit with a hard hitting partner that's occasional suffers wrist pains returning hard hit shots. his current setup is good but can cause pain...especially on mishits. convinced him to give me one of his racquets and allow me to string "the current setup". don't want to lose him as a hitting partner since his work ethic is much better than mine. am i a nice guy or what?
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
That may be true, but when the same people with the same strokes get tennis elbow from using poly but not from using other softer strings, what else can it be but the poly strings?

Well I'm not so sure it's solely the string's fault. I know I started to try for more topspin because it's easier to hit topspin... especially with the last second roll of the forearm. I've never had elbow problems before even when using full Lux Alu BB. But then I switched to RPM Blast and when I tried a full set to see the difference, my elbow felt a bit sore after a few sets.
At first, I thought it was all the string's fault but then my opponent said I was hitting with more spin and the big shots were landing in at the last minute. I realized I was trying to hit more spin while swinging harder, a recipe for elbow if contact isn't perfect on a 90sqin racquet.
So it's possibly a combination of players trying to take advantage of the better spin production with exaggerated spin (helicopter forehand etc) and stiffer strings.
I've gone to stringing below 40 (usually 33-35lbs mains, 33-40lbs cross) and using a gut cross hybrid to tame the vibrations to prevent the elbow issue from occurring. The lower tension allows nice bite on the ball while the stiffness is less jarring, esp in combo with gut.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Well I'm not so sure it's solely the string's fault. I know I started to try for more topspin because it's easier to hit topspin... especially with the last second roll of the forearm. I've never had elbow problems before even when using full Lux Alu BB. But then I switched to RPM Blast and when I tried a full set to see the difference, my elbow felt a bit sore after a few sets.
At first, I thought it was all the string's fault but then my opponent said I was hitting with more spin and the big shots were landing in at the last minute. I realized I was trying to hit more spin while swinging harder, a recipe for elbow if contact isn't perfect on a 90sqin racquet.
So it's possibly a combination of players trying to take advantage of the better spin production with exaggerated spin (helicopter forehand etc) and stiffer strings.
I've gone to stringing below 40 (usually 33-35lbs mains, 33-40lbs cross) and using a gut cross hybrid to tame the vibrations to prevent the elbow issue from occurring. The lower tension allows nice bite on the ball while the stiffness is less jarring, esp in combo with gut.
So what you're saying is that it's not the poly strings that give people more spin, it's that people are swinging harder and taking bigger swings that give people more spin. That's been my contention all along, which is that poly itself doesn't really give people more spin, it's the low power that forces people to swing bigger and harder that results in more spin.

When I try a new string, I always swing exactly the same way as I always do because I'm trying to judge the string itself and I can't do that fairly if I change the way I swing. I guess that's why I've never gotten more spin from using poly than I do from using syn guts or multis.
 

galain

Hall of Fame
Grover - my experience was quite similar to yours. I'd been hearing about (and playing against) all the wonderful qualities poly strings were known for and decided, after much reading, to try something at the softer end of the spectrum. i have always preferred very soft frames and had never had elbow problems before but they came within one match of my new string job.

I perservered, and while the strings settled in and became softer, the elbow pain didn't go away. I tried about 4 more full beds of soft copolys but the elbow pain wasn't going away.

Then I tried a few months with multis, which was psychologically crippling, because all of a sudden I was swinging an uncontrollable rocket launcher. The pain went away though, so then i thought I'd be alright to give a hybrid stringjob a go. No luck. After one match the pain was back again.

I even tried a friends PK 5G - the most arm friendly protective frame I could think of - that had had a hybrid of SPPP and NXT - but my elbow hurt even through that. I went and strung one last time at 30lbs after reading all about low tension poly's - and while I thought the results were great, my arm didn't agree.

So - here I am, pretty much resigned to staying with multi's or syn guts. I guess some of us just aren't made for these strings.
 

mikeler

Moderator
Grover - my experience was quite similar to yours. I'd been hearing about (and playing against) all the wonderful qualities poly strings were known for and decided, after much reading, to try something at the softer end of the spectrum. i have always preferred very soft frames and had never had elbow problems before but they came within one match of my new string job.

I perservered, and while the strings settled in and became softer, the elbow pain didn't go away. I tried about 4 more full beds of soft copolys but the elbow pain wasn't going away.

Then I tried a few months with multis, which was psychologically crippling, because all of a sudden I was swinging an uncontrollable rocket launcher. The pain went away though, so then i thought I'd be alright to give a hybrid stringjob a go. No luck. After one match the pain was back again.

I even tried a friends PK 5G - the most arm friendly protective frame I could think of - that had had a hybrid of SPPP and NXT - but my elbow hurt even through that. I went and strung one last time at 30lbs after reading all about low tension poly's - and while I thought the results were great, my arm didn't agree.

So - here I am, pretty much resigned to staying with multi's or syn guts. I guess some of us just aren't made for these strings.


My elbow can only tolerate a handful of the "soft" polys in a hybrid with a soft multi even at low tensions, so I understand where you are coming from.
 
Unless you are getting back into the sport and playing too much too quickly without proper rest and strength and stretching, I find that most people who get TE have a few traits in common based on my observation on the tennis courts.

They either have one or more of the following traits: a racquet that is too stiff and unforgiving, have poor technique and form, and improper string and tension on the racquet.

If you have a soft racquet and good form and properly tension poly at the end of the spectrum, you shouldn't have TE issues unless you had a previous injury that you didn't let properly heal.
 

Boricua

Hall of Fame
Were the setups you used that caused the damage full set poly or hybrid of poly/multi?

Were the polys stiff and in high tension?
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Unless you are getting back into the sport and playing too much too quickly without proper rest and strength and stretching, I find that most people who get TE have a few traits in common based on my observation on the tennis courts.

They either have one or more of the following traits: a racquet that is too stiff and unforgiving, have poor technique and form, and improper string and tension on the racquet.

If you have a soft racquet and good form and properly tension poly at the end of the spectrum, you shouldn't have TE issues unless you had a previous injury that you didn't let properly heal.
But for many people, the ONLY change they've made is to poly strings and then got TE as a result. They used the same soft racquet, the same technique, the same strokes, the same everything. The ONLY thing different was the poly strings. They've used gut or multis or syn guts for decades and never got TE. As soon as they switched to poly, here comes the TE. Nothing else about their games or racquet had changed. As soon as they switch away from poly, the TE starts to subside. I've heard this same story a million times as well as experienced it myself. I think it's safe to assume that the cause of the TE was the poly strings and not their racquets or technique.
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
Perhaps a good (comfortable) alternative is a gut/poly hybrid now that it's scientifically proven to provide massive 'access to spin'.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
My string advice is go low, low tension with a stiff poly string (my low tension favorite is Volkl Cyclone) and adapt to playing with it. It should be arm-friendly and you'll get the benefits you like from poly strings. I believe that RELATIVE tension matters more than string type alone. Higher string tensions pass more shock and stress to the arm.

Good luck.

CR, you seem to recommend Cyclone and BHB(R) quite a bit. I went from Cyclone to BHBR on my YT Extreme Pro which is a powerful racket. I get more power and dwell time with BHBR but I'm wondering if I'm losing some control and crisp feel that I get with Cyclone. I've tried going from 45 lbs to 50 with BHBR but it feels stiff but not crisp like Volkl. I'm thinking about going back to Cyclone on my Extreme Pro at 45 lbs. What do you think? The other alternative is going back to my Prince Ozone Pro Tour with BHBR at 45 lbs. A racket with less power with a powerful string.

BTW what do you like about Cyclone so much?
 

mctennis

Legend
I know I started trying some of the ploys simply because people rave about the spin and control ( dwell time) they get with them. Then the more I try them the more disappointed in the actual REAL time the strings last. I did notice getting some wrist pain and soreness in the shoulder. Plus the cost to restring the racquets after they go dead makes it unfeasible to continue using them. I get a lot more time with gut or a gut hybrid than I do with most ( I haven't tried them all so I have to quantify this) of the polys out there.
 

grover

Rookie
After 35 years, why did you feel the need to go to poly?

Now thats a good question. Honestly, I found this forum and started reading all the great things poly strings do and decided to try a couple. Hyperion and Silverstring at 53 pounds is what I tried and loved the feel of the strings but it was not long before I noticed some discomfort in my elbow. I'm not saying the reason my elbow hurts is positively poly but it is not my racket or strokes as some have suggested. I'm a former 5.0 college player who do to age is now a 4.5. The racket I use has a flex rating of 61. Again, in 35 years of playing with nylon strings I never had any issues so I was curious if anyone else had the same experience.
 

greg280

Rookie
think this.... thick string and high tension is the perfect storm for tennis elbow if you have the predisposition.
 

greg280

Rookie
full blackcode 16 at 60 in an extented 18x20 frame to be specific....since going lighter in guage, 16L and doing 53 in tension, same frame, no problems
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
Now thats a good question. Honestly, I found this forum and started reading all the great things poly strings do and decided to try a couple. Hyperion and Silverstring at 53 pounds is what I tried and loved the feel of the strings but it was not long before I noticed some discomfort in my elbow. I'm not saying the reason my elbow hurts is positively poly but it is not my racket or strokes as some have suggested. I'm a former 5.0 college player who do to age is now a 4.5. The racket I use has a flex rating of 61. Again, in 35 years of playing with nylon strings I never had any issues so I was curious if anyone else had the same experience.

I think age has a lot to do with it too. Many pros in their 20's hit ALU all day, everyday and don't have arm issues. But when you start getting into your 40's and 50's, it's a different story. In my 20's I could play 6 hours of volleyball with all that jumping. I doubt that my knees can handle more than 2 hours now.
 

film1

Semi-Pro
Get a pk5g, it's a great racquet and it should have you up and going in a couple of weeks.
 

BigT

Professional
Would you play with the same racquets you did 35 years ago even if they were available today?

He mentioned he has been playing for 35 years, not that he has not played in 35 years.

I think age has a lot to do with it too. Many pros in their 20's hit ALU all day, everyday and don't have arm issues. But when you start getting into your 40's and 50's, it's a different story. In my 20's I could play 6 hours of volleyball with all that jumping. I doubt that my knees can handle more than 2 hours now.

Exactly. They hit 5+ hours a day for years, and they have no issues. The reason is because they restring every day or two and never overplay the poly. If rec. players would restring even every 10 hours of play, they would see much less injuries.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Exactly. They hit 5+ hours a day for years, and they have no issues. The reason is because they restring every day or two and never overplay the poly. If rec. players would restring even every 10 hours of play, they would see much less injuries.
The pros are also in much better physical condition than most recreational players, and most pros are in their teens and twenties so they have more flexible tendons and their body parts naturally heal much faster. One's risk of TE goes up as you age as your tendons become more and more brittle and easier to tear and harder to heal.
 

tennisinoc

Semi-Pro
I think age has a lot to do with it too. Many pros in their 20's hit ALU all day, everyday and don't have arm issues. But when you start getting into your 40's and 50's, it's a different story. In my 20's I could play 6 hours of volleyball with all that jumping. I doubt that my knees can handle more than 2 hours now.

Not true. Look at Del Potro who had to recover from a wrist injury. I'm sure the poly strings had something to contribute to it.
Plus, we can't compare us to pros because they have a full medical team and impeccable form and timing which helps limit injury.
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
He mentioned he has been playing for 35 years, not that he has not played in 35 years.

That's exactly my question: would you be playing with the same racquets (assume available) for 35 years, and not take advantage of today's racquets?

The answer to which should address your original question "After 35 years, why did you feel the need to go to poly".
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
That is only partially the reason. Yes poly are stiff strings, so one has to string lower to benefit and optimize from the poly strengths. YET there are many who string at the same tension as multis and also have no problems.
I also disagree with the tenet that all new users of poly and develop elbow issues changed nothing.
Polys are not as lively so it'll be natural to try hit harder for some. Then some will also try to add more topspin because they get more bite.
I do find it interesting that there are such outcries against a string which has become so popular. If tennis elbow was such a big issue, I think we'd hear more about that than about all the new polys coming out.

But for many people, the ONLY change they've made is to poly strings and then got TE as a result. They used the same soft racquet, the same technique, the same strokes, the same everything. The ONLY thing different was the poly strings. They've used gut or multis or syn guts for decades and never got TE. As soon as they switched to poly, here comes the TE. Nothing else about their games or racquet had changed. As soon as they switch away from poly, the TE starts to subside. I've heard this same story a million times as well as experienced it myself. I think it's safe to assume that the cause of the TE was the poly strings and not their racquets or technique.
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
I do find it interesting that there are such outcries against a string which has become so popular. If tennis elbow was such a big issue, I think we'd hear more about that than about all the new polys coming out.

Trust me, we hear about it all the time. Just check out the Health/Fitness forum here.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
That is only partially the reason. Yes poly are stiff strings, so one has to string lower to benefit and optimize from the poly strengths. YET there are many who string at the same tension as multis and also have no problems.
I also disagree with the tenet that all new users of poly and develop elbow issues changed nothing.
Polys are not as lively so it'll be natural to try hit harder for some. Then some will also try to add more topspin because they get more bite.
I do find it interesting that there are such outcries against a string which has become so popular. If tennis elbow was such a big issue, I think we'd hear more about that than about all the new polys coming out.
Have you read every post on this website? If so, you'll find TONS of complaints about tennis elbow that developed from using poly strings. Go ask the doctors. Also lots of injuries on the pro tour these days that resulted from the use of poly strings, e.g., wrist injuries, elbow injuries, shoulder injuries, etc.

BTW, adding more topspin doesn't give you tennis elbow. Hitting flat with stiff strings gives you tennis elbow. Poly strings put you at a higher risk of TE because they are so stiff so that they don't give when you hit the ball, but in a collision something has to give, so what ends up giving are your tendons.
 

Carolina Racquet

Professional
That may be true, but when the same people with the same strokes get tennis elbow from using poly but not from using other softer strings, what else can it be but the poly strings?

Here's the scoop on your comment and trust me, It's just my opinion.

Poly strings are less elastic and transmits more shock to the elbow when strung at the same tension range as more elastic strings such as syngut and multis. So you are correct if you assume comparable tension levels!

But because they are less elastic, you can drop tension quite a bit and after some practice, control it very well with a lot of spin. When strung really low, it's very receptive and feels more elastic without it being a slingshot.

So poly strings alone aren't the problem... too high of tension w poly is. Most players feel they have to string mid to high range to get 'control' and through in a little bad technique... they are asking for problems.
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
I don't doubt the veracity of complaints. I just doubt if ALL those complaints can be attributed to polys, especially when used correctly.
You are partially incorrect about tennis elbow(lateral epicondylitis). Yes, a tear can be caused by repeated heavy trauma (hammering etc). In tennis, poor technique has been the major cause.
The most common cause of tennis elbow, in beginning and intermediate tennis players, is poor or improper back hand mechanics. This can be seen with players who strike the ball with an extended, rigid elbow while making contact with the ball too far from the body. Late contact with the ball while swinging a back hand can also increase the forces across the elbow.
On the forehand, players who use excessive wrist snap to add top spin to their ground strokes are at risk to develop tennis elbow. When a player attempts to place top spin on the ball, the wrist will hyper-flex, thus leading to excess strain on the extensor muscles at the elbow. This can be the result of a hard hit spin serves.
To say that polys will cause tennis elbow is analogous to say all superlight racquets do the same. There's a variety of string and racquets and players have to choose equipment that suits them. If polys were to have such tendencies as to cause every player to suffer lateral epicondylitis, then how do you explain why only some suffer from it but not all?
I've used Luxilon and now Babolat polys for years now, and I don't have elbow problems. I learnt about the string's qualities and optimized them to suit me, which is to lower tension and use a softer cross like gut. If it didn't then I'd use something else.

BTW, adding more topspin doesn't give you tennis elbow. Hitting flat with stiff strings gives you tennis elbow. Poly strings put you at a higher risk of TE because they are so stiff so that they don't give when you hit the ball, but in a collision something has to give, so what ends up giving are your tendons.

So what you're saying is that it's not the poly strings that give people more spin, it's that people are swinging harder and taking bigger swings that give people more spin. That's been my contention all along, which is that poly itself doesn't really give people more spin, it's the low power that forces people to swing bigger and harder that results in more spin.
Not exactly. From what I understand (and I'm not an expert), polys allow better grip of the ball (aka cupping), thus the spin increase is measurably more. Look at it in reverse, if one hits a ball with a multi and it flies out because the grip of the string doesn't allow the generation of spin and handle high power simultaneous (with the same stroke), then you just try to hit with spin or power with the limit of the string's grip to keep the ball in. With polys, you can hit harder with spin and keep the ball in. In essence, over time there is more strain on your body.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Here's the scoop on your comment and trust me, It's just my opinion.

Poly strings are less elastic and transmits more shock to the elbow when strung at the same tension range as more elastic strings such as syngut and multis. So you are correct if you assume comparable tension levels!

But because they are less elastic, you can drop tension quite a bit and after some practice, control it very well with a lot of spin. When strung really low, it's very receptive and feels more elastic without it being a slingshot.

So poly strings alone aren't the problem... too high of tension w poly is. Most players feel they have to string mid to high range to get 'control' and through in a little bad technique... they are asking for problems.
It's not just the shock from stiff strings that gives you elbow problems, it's the force. When the stringbed doesn't give when you hit the ball, that cantilever force goes to your hand down from the racquet, but since you're holding onto the racquet tightly with your hand, the tendon in your foream and connects to your elbow has to bend instead. Something has to bend in a collision, if it's not your stringbed, then it's your arm tendons. The force of the collision with the ball is transmitted as torque down the racquet and to your arm and elbow. T = F x d That's also why the longer the racquet (d), the more torque it puts on your elbow.

Also, poly strings are stiff regardless of what tension you string them at. When I use my drop weight stringer to string poly, the weight doesn't drop at all. It doesn't even budge because the string is so stiff and inelastic. There's almost no resiliency as compared to nylon or gut strings. It's a inherent property of the string that remains regardless of the tension. A lower tension will not make poly strings more elastic and resilient. If it did, no one would use natural gut because they would just string cheap syn gut a low tensions to achieve the same elasticity and resiliency, thereby saving tons of money. But people still use natural gut because even at higher tensions they still maintain their elasticity and resilience.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I don't doubt the veracity of complaints. I just doubt if ALL those complaints can be attributed to polys, especially when used correctly.
You are partially incorrect about tennis elbow(lateral epicondylitis). Yes, a tear can be caused by repeated heavy trauma (hammering etc). In tennis, poor technique has been the major cause.
The most common cause of tennis elbow, in beginning and intermediate tennis players, is poor or improper back hand mechanics. This can be seen with players who strike the ball with an extended, rigid elbow while making contact with the ball too far from the body. Late contact with the ball while swinging a back hand can also increase the forces across the elbow.
On the forehand, players who use excessive wrist snap to add top spin to their ground strokes are at risk to develop tennis elbow. When a player attempts to place top spin on the ball, the wrist will hyper-flex, thus leading to excess strain on the extensor muscles at the elbow. This can be the result of a hard hit spin serves.
To say that polys will cause tennis elbow is analogous to say all superlight racquets do the same. There's a variety of string and racquets and players have to choose equipment that suits them. If polys were to have such tendencies as to cause every player to suffer lateral epicondylitis, then how do you explain why only some suffer from it but not all?
I've used Luxilon and now Babolat polys for years now, and I don't have elbow problems. I learnt about the string's qualities and optimized them to suit me, which is to lower tension and use a softer cross like gut. If it didn't then I'd use something else.
Read those complaints. The ONLY change they made was to poly strings. Nothing else had changed. Same strokes as before.

BTW, you can get TE even with perfect strokes. It's a repetitive stress injury. Hit enough balls even with the best strokes and you can still develop tennis elbow. That's why even top pros get TE.

A few questions:

1. How old are you?
2. What level do you play at?
3. How many hours a week do you play?
4. Do you use a one-handed backhand?
5. Do you generally hit the ball flat or with lots of topspin?

Depending on your answers to these questions, one can assess your risk of tennis elbow from using poly strings.

Not exactly. From what I understand (and I'm not an expert), polys allow better grip of the ball (aka cupping), thus the spin increase is measurably more. Look at it in reverse, if one hits a ball with a multi and it flies out because the grip of the string doesn't allow the generation of spin and handle high power simultaneous (with the same stroke), then you just try to hit with spin or power with the limit of the string's grip to keep the ball in. With polys, you can hit harder with spin and keep the ball in. In essence, over time there is more strain on your body.
Poly gives more "bite" because the stringbed is so stiff. It's not "cupping". That's what you get with really soft and resilient strings like natural gut or multis. With polys, it's "pancaking". Since the poly stringbed is so stiff, when the ball collides with the stringbed, the stringbed gives less so the ball flattens ("pancakes") more against the stringbed. When the ball flattens more, it digs deeper into the individual strings and also into a greater number of strings because as the ball flattens more, a greater surface area of the ball makes contact with more of the stringbed. That's why you get more "bite" from poly strings - you are grabbing more of the ball and getting a better grip on the ball. It's also why you get a louder "pop" when you strike the ball with poly than with softer strings because that's the sound of the ball flattening more against the stiff poly stringbed.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
I had same experience. Played 30+ years and have not had elbow pain until using polys recently. I initially was stringing the polys around 56-57 lbs in mains or crosses with gut or multi at 2-4 lbs hi-er than poly. Only had minor elbow and wrist pain. I have dropped the poly tension to 51-52 and pain is 99% gone. I may even go to 48-50 on poly with softer string +3-4 lbs hi-er. At lower tension, I have not experienced a loss of control, elbow feels good, and still get really good spin and control from the poly. Also, my experience is if you go multi mains, with poly crosses; you still get most of the benefits of the poly for control and spin, a little more power than poly mains, and a bit easier on the arm.

I think the mistake people make is stringing poly at or only 2-3 lbs below multi/gut normal tensions. Drop poly to at least 52 lbs and try lower.

Once you have TE, take a month off and start your rehab slowly. Preg-na-zone (pho-net-ic spelling) pack also helps if your Dr will prescribe.
 
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eliza

Guest
think this.... thick string and high tension is the perfect storm for tennis elbow if you have the predisposition.

Hey, used Babolat Xcel 16 at 65 for a decade, nothing happened, now I wanted to try RPM or any poly (b/c everybody is) but reading all these posts I am getting convinced IS the string, not the player/racquet etc.....
 

mikeler

Moderator
Hey, used Babolat Xcel 16 at 65 for a decade, nothing happened, now I wanted to try RPM or any poly (b/c everybody is) but reading all these posts I am getting convinced IS the string, not the player/racquet etc.....

Xcel is a fantastic multi. If it works for your game, stick with it. It is super comfy on the arm.
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
I think what others like Carolina and TennisCJC have said is the general wisdom of using polys... drop the tension. In my case, I dropped it drastically from 50-53lbs to 30+. I'm a former 6.0 collegiate now 5.5 player who hits about 10hrs a week with 4-6 sets of singles and the rest doubles. I hit with moderate spin pre-poly and now hit more with polys. It's part of why polys are used. Polys allow players to hit the ball harder and keep the ball in, so logic dictates that there is more effort in hitting because there is more access to spin.
When people say nothing has changed, then they're just not as conscious about it. The physics needed to hit the ball to a certain depth at a certain speed doesn't change, how it is hit does with various variables like string, racquets etc. Muscle memory remembers how a certain stroke is swung to get a certain result, and if the result isn't there, we adjust. So there can't be the "same swing."
Perfect technique obviously does not give one immunity from injury. ANY repetitive hard impact motion can possibly cause injury. And being a pro doesn't mean the technique is sound or they are immune to injuries. In fact they are more prone to injury because of the continuous rigorous play. The more advanced the player, the more likely it is there is injury or aches and pains. Par for course and all that.
Funny you should mention sound. A few tennis players have commented that my setup of RPM/Gut @ 30+ lbs is actually more muted than other strings, so much so they have difficulty picking up what serve I hit by sound alone. The brushing noise of a heavy slice serve is muted. I never really noticed it but hey I'm never going to return my own serve. I personally think they just go to one too many loud bars/clubs and have hearing acumen. :)


Read those complaints. The ONLY change they made was to poly strings. Nothing else had changed. Same strokes as before.

BTW, you can get TE even with perfect strokes. It's a repetitive stress injury. Hit enough balls even with the best strokes and you can still develop tennis elbow. That's why even top pros get TE.

A few questions:

1. How old are you?
2. What level do you play at?
3. How many hours a week do you play?
4. Do you use a one-handed backhand?
5. Do you generally hit the ball flat or with lots of topspin?

Depending on your answers to these questions, one can assess your risk of tennis elbow from using poly strings.


Poly gives more "bite" because the stringbed is so stiff. It's not "cupping". That's what you get with really soft and resilient strings like natural gut or multis. With polys, it's "pancaking". Since the poly stringbed is so stiff, when the ball collides with the stringbed, the stringbed gives less so the ball flattens ("pancakes") more against the stringbed. When the ball flattens more, it digs deeper into the individual strings and also into a greater number of strings because as the ball flattens more, a greater surface area of the ball makes contact with more of the stringbed. That's why you get more "bite" from poly strings - you are grabbing more of the ball and getting a better grip on the ball. It's also why you get a louder "pop" when you strike the ball with poly than with softer strings because that's the sound of the ball flattening more against the stiff poly stringbed.
 

magnut

Hall of Fame
Yup, its the strings. My technique is very classical and pretty much perfect. I dont generate force with the arm and everything comes from core strength and weight transfer. I have played for many years and endless hours on court. I train daily with fairly heavy weights (40lb dumbells for curls and such). My rackets are very flexible and very heavy. I have used every type of string in the past including kevlar. Polyester is an elbow killer though. Its like wire cable. This is evedent even when you string your racquets.

I was intrigued by poly because I was breaking strings every 45 minutes. 6 months later my elbow was waking me up throbbing in the middle of the night. Damage was pretty severe to the point where I had to learn to play left handed for two years. Even then my right elbow has never been 100%.

I never had any issues whatsoever with elbow problems before this. Left elbow is 100% as I have never hit with polyester on that arm. Even with 6 hour practice sessions never a hint of elbow pain.

Stay away from that poly. I have seen many defend it but eventually they get TE as well. Most overated string ever. Its just cheap to make and marketed heavily.

If you must play with it find the thinnist and softest available and cut it out after a couple of hours of play.

I know there are a lot of fans of this stuff because they think it gives them more spin or power blah, blah. Its not worth getting TE though trust me. Once you get TE you dont care about power and spin. You just want to be able to hit the ball without sharp pain shooting through your elbow. The feel of polyester is terrible as well compared to other string.

I am not a string elitist by any means. Natural gut is supremely fantastic if you dont mind spending the money on it. I use plain old 15 guage nylon which is about as cheap as you can get. Once you find a tension you like though its actaully a decently soft string and pretty durable. No arm issues either. I was once in search of thicked string in the 13 or 14 guage and tried useing ultra thick weed wacker cord (which was nylon) for a while. No arm issues from that either.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I think what others like Carolina and TennisCJC have said is the general wisdom of using polys... drop the tension. In my case, I dropped it drastically from 50-53lbs to 30+. I'm a former 6.0 collegiate now 5.5 player who hits about 10hrs a week with 4-6 sets of singles and the rest doubles. I hit with moderate spin pre-poly and now hit more with polys. It's part of why polys are used. Polys allow players to hit the ball harder and keep the ball in, so logic dictates that there is more effort in hitting because there is more access to spin.
When people say nothing has changed, then they're just not as conscious about it. The physics needed to hit the ball to a certain depth at a certain speed doesn't change, how it is hit does with various variables like string, racquets etc. Muscle memory remembers how a certain stroke is swung to get a certain result, and if the result isn't there, we adjust. So there can't be the "same swing."
Perfect technique obviously does not give one immunity from injury. ANY repetitive hard impact motion can possibly cause injury. And being a pro doesn't mean the technique is sound or they are immune to injuries. In fact they are more prone to injury because of the continuous rigorous play. The more advanced the player, the more likely it is there is injury or aches and pains. Par for course and all that.
Funny you should mention sound. A few tennis players have commented that my setup of RPM/Gut @ 30+ lbs is actually more muted than other strings, so much so they have difficulty picking up what serve I hit by sound alone. The brushing noise of a heavy slice serve is muted. I never really noticed it but hey I'm never going to return my own serve. I personally think they just go to one too many loud bars/clubs and have hearing acumen. :)
Not everyone. I've been swinging tennis racquets the same way for over 35 years. I'm not about to change now for ANY string. If I don't get the same results with a new string with by existing swing? I cut the string out. I don't EVER change my swing. I hit flat regardless of what string I'm using. I don't try to swing bigger for more spin just because I'm using poly. I'm sure lots of people are just like me.

BTW, you didn't mention how old you are and if you use a two-handed backhand? Both are very important factors in developing tennis elbow.
 
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