Epics on Everest

[Neptune]

I'm referring to matches involving the absolute top players: as No1 vs No2, as No2 vs No1, between Top2. Chronologically listed for the elite 8 who have spent the most time at the top 2.

​	as No1 vs No2​	as No2 vs No1​	between Top2​	Weeks@Top2​
Jimmy Connors​	1-7​	2-4​	3-11​	387​
Bjorn Borg​	6-3​	5-1​	11-4​	261​
John McEnroe​	6-9​	7-3​	13-12​	309​
Ivan Lendl​	2-9​	7-5​	9-14​	376​
Pete Sampras​	4-3​	1-1​	5-4​	376​
Roger Federer​	12-10​	4-8​	16-18​	528​
Rafael Nadal​	2-11​	15-9​	17-20​	596​
Novak Djokovic​	16-8​	10-4​	26-12​	564​

And here are Rafa's Epic 2-11.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Connors mostly got his ass kicked by #2 Borg and #2 Mac at the big showdowns . Hence the pitiful 1-7 record.

 

[Krish872007]

Are these all matches, or just Slams?
You can easily see who thrives in the role of "top dog" vs "underdog" lol

 

[Neptune]

Are these all matches, or just Slams?
You can easily see who thrives in the role of "underdog" lol

All matches

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Look at Rafa at a pitiful 2-11.
Even @octobrina10 will be unable to spin this Rafa train wreck.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

All matches

Please fact check Rafa at 2-11.
@octobrina10 says it is way off.

 

[Neptune]

Please fact check Rafa at 2-11.
@octobrina10 says it is way off.

 

[Krish872007]

Please fact check Rafa at 2-11.
@octobrina10 says it is way off.

It's correct, I just checked the 2 wins. 2009 AO Final and 2014 RG Final.

 

[uscwang]

I'm referring to matches involving the absolute top players: as No1 vs No2, as No2 vs No1, between Top2. Listed chronologically

​	as No1 vs No2​	as No2 vs No1​	between Top2​	Weeks@Top2​
Jimmy Connors​	1-7​	2-4​	3-11​	387​
Bjorn Borg​	6-3​	5-1​	11-4​	261​
John McEnroe​	6-9​	7-3​	13-12​	309​
Ivan Lendl​	2-9​	7-5​	9-14​	376​
Pete Sampras​	4-3​	1-1​	5-4​	376​
Roger Federer​	12-10​	4-8​	16-18​	528​
Rafael Nadal​	2-11​	15-9​	17-20​	596​
Novak Djokovic​	16-8​	10-4​	26-12​	564​

Just wow. Novak and Borg.

 

[Krish872007]

Sampras was only part of 9 matches as either #1 or #2? That's... very surprising. And interesting food for thought at the same time

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nadal is praised a lot for his records vs number 1

But what about his poor record as number 1

 

[Neptune]

Nadal is praised a lot for his records vs number 1

But what about his poor record as number 1

Is that why Rafa is pinned at No.2 ?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Is that why Rafa is pinned at No.2 ?

He is always the chaser never a good chasey.

 

[Neptune]

Sampras was only part of 9 matches as either #1 or #2? That's... very surprising. And interesting food for thought at the same time

Kind of too few, Murray only 120 weeks at top2 and manages 8.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Sampras was only part of 9 matches as either #1 or #2? That's... very surprising. And interesting food for thought at the same time

Yes the era diversity might be a bad argument for them failing to make quarters on most of the slams.

 

[TMF]

H2H alone doesn't mean you're a better player

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

H2H alone doesn't mean you're a better player

It is impossible to make the case for GOAT if you are a pitiful 2-11 defending your #1 ranking.
Please. That stat is just shocking.

 

[Neptune]

Each edition of the GOAT features a respectable first column (as the King dealing with the No. 2), quite intriguing.

 

[TMF]

It is impossible to make the case for GOAT if you are a pitiful 2-11 defending your #1 ranking.
Please. That stat is just shocking.

H2H against certain individual is a flaw and has zero meaning without context. It's just as bad as the worthless ELO

Because of too many variables that dictate the win/loss record, opinion are often skewed or deeply misunderstood:

1) Age difference between players. Pre-prime vs. prime vs. peak vs. post prime
2) Total number of meetings on his/her best and worst surface
3) Match up issue. E.g. Federer owns Davy who owns Nadal
4) Environment: Slow homogenous courts favor certain player who's a defense specialist
5) Healthy. Sometime a player is not in-formed due to sickness/injured(e.g Federer had mono in 2008 AO)

Does anyone honestly believe Santora is a better/greater tennis player than Safin? Didn't think so

Let this be a good lesson for you.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

These stats are H2H matchups when both players were at their peak.
Either #1 or #2 in the world.

A 2-11 at your peak is simply not a good look for Rafa.

Please do try to keep up!

1) Age difference between players. Pre-prime vs. prime vs. peak vs. post prime

 

[TMF]

These stats are H2H matchups when both players were at their peak.
Either #1 or #2 in the world.

A 2-11 at your peak is simply not a good look for Rafa.

Please do try to keep up!

LOL. Not complete true. And leaving out the whole details that destroyed the H2H nonsense.

If you want to remain ignorant, that's up to you

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

LOL. Not complete true. And leaving out the whole details that destroyed the H2H nonsense.

If you want to remain ignorant, that's up to you

If you want to make a case for Rafa as GOAT, that 2-11 H2H, at his peak!, is just devastating. It is true.
And we are huge Rafa fans. But the numbers do not lie.
But feel free to stick your head in the sand.

 

[TMF]

If you want to make a case for Rafa as GOAT, that 2-11 H2H, at his peak!, is just devastating. It is true.
And we are huge Rafa fans. But the numbers do not lie.

ROFL! I don't believe in GOAT because that's for ignorant fanboi like you. H2H against individual makes a GOAT case, that's another gem(Roddick > Nole)

But feel free to stick your head in the sand.

Keyboard warrior. Wow!

 

[Neptune]

ROFL! I don't believe in GOAT because that's for ignorant fanboi like you. H2H against individual makes a GOAT case, that's another gem(Roddick > Nole)

What happened to your decade-long RED GOAT avatar?

 

[TMF]

What happened to your decade-long RED GOAT avatar?

See below

All legends equally deserve the GOAT case/claim, no one owns it.

I remove the avi because I don't want people to take the wrong way

 

[CHillTennis]

I'm referring to matches involving the absolute top players: as No1 vs No2, as No2 vs No1, between Top2. Chronologically listed for the elite 8 who have spent the most time at the top 2.

​	as No1 vs No2​	as No2 vs No1​	between Top2​	Weeks@Top2​
Jimmy Connors​	1-7​	2-4​	3-11​	387​
Bjorn Borg​	6-3​	5-1​	11-4​	261​
John McEnroe​	6-9​	7-3​	13-12​	309​
Ivan Lendl​	2-9​	7-5​	9-14​	376​
Pete Sampras​	4-3​	1-1​	5-4​	376​
Roger Federer​	12-10​	4-8​	16-18​	528​
Rafael Nadal​	2-11​	15-9​	17-20​	596​
Novak Djokovic​	16-8​	10-4​	26-12​	564​

Epics on Everest? You mean like a person reading a lengthy poem on the top of a mountain??

 

[MichaelNadal]

Epics on Everest? You mean like a person reading a lengthy poem on the top of a mountain??

Or me eating snacks at a high altitude

 

[CHillTennis]

It's a misuse of the word.

Epic is not synonymous with words like incredible or mindblowing.

 

[MichaelNadal]

It's a misuse of the word.

Epic is not synonymous with words like incredible or mindblowing.

These days it is

 

[Deleted member 758560]

 

[CHillTennis]

These days it is

Nah, bro. These days people are just uneducated about what these words actually mean.

Lazy writing and false importance.

 

[mavsman149]

This really puts a dampener on Nadal’s reputation as being the best big match player.

Strange thread title, but pretty neat illustrator of how players did at or close to the top of their games.

 

[nolefam_2024]

This really puts a dampener on Nadal’s reputation as being the best big match player.

Strange thread title, but pretty neat illustrator of how players did at or close to the top of their games.

Thank you.

Nadal stats always need a second look. Stats like best vs number 1. Very shady.

 

[mavsman149]

So Nadal as world #1 is only 1-4 on clay against world #2?

That has to be the most shocking stat I’ve seen in awhile. At least for him he won the only one at RG.

 

[Neptune]

Epics on Everest? You mean like a person reading a lengthy poem on the top of a mountain??

Or me eating snacks at a high altitude

It's a misuse of the word.

Epic is not synonymous with words like incredible or mindblowing.

This really puts a dampener on Nadal’s reputation as being the best big match player.

Strange thread title, but pretty neat illustrator of how players did at or close to the top of their games.

Borrowing some vocabulary from Rafans.

 

[Neptune]

So Nadal as world #1 is only 1-4 on clay against world #2?

That has to be the most shocking stat I’ve seen in awhile. At least for him he won the only one at RG.

And the 0-9 in the middle...

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nadal's record is pathetic

 

[LuckyR]

Nadal's record is pathetic

Something's pathetic, true... but I'm not sure Rafa's tennis career qualifies. Posts in this Forum, OTOH...