Error codes on Toyo Zouki machines?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by 10shoe, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    I wonder if anyone here happens to know the significance of E5 and E6 error codes on Toyo Zouki tensioning heads. Their specific meaning?

    This is not an intermittent problem at this point. It is happening a dozen times per stringing. I am not afraid to disassemble the machine to a point. I have in the past replaced the bearings, for instance. I am not seeing any problem with the bearings this time.
     
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  2. kkm

    kkm Professional

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  3. kkm

    kkm Professional

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  4. kkm

    kkm Professional

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    Wonder whether anything’s fallen down into the tension head/whether there’s an obstruction?
     
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  5. kkm

    kkm Professional

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    Wonder whether anything’s fallen down into the tension head/whether there’s an obstruction?
     
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  6. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    Toyo-Zouki has repaired a tension head for me in the past and while I am actually very glad to send them business
    (they deserve my support for making such great equipment) I don't feel the same way about FedEx. Shipping the
    tension head will run around $500 (one way). Toyo-Zouki is not going to instruct me on how to do the repair myself however.

    IMO, there is no electrical problem because I am able to get the machine to run. If there were some sort of PCB failure, I would
    definitely ship the tension head. Absent information here, my next step is to disassemble and clean, and perhaps replace the bearings...

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
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  7. kkm

    kkm Professional

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    Assuming you’re in the USA, maybe you could try contacting Toyo Zouki and Yonex USA and see whether you might be able to get Yonex to send your tension head to/from Japan with a regular shipment. If not the USA, then the nearest Yonex office.
     
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  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It wouldn’t hurt to contact @abllee2198. What do you have to loose?
     
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  9. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    Like, send him an email?
     
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  10. diredesire

    diredesire Adjunct Moderator

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    Yes. Albert is the man. I've corresponded with him in the past and he's been nothing short of exceedingly helpful. I would wager he can get an answer to your question. I'd also recommend if you shoot him a mail to post the answer back to this thread :) If he doesn't get back to you, hit me up. I can reach out for you if he doesn't respond - I (obviously) won't hand his contact info out in respect for privacy.
     
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  11. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You can’t PM him but if you have his email that’s great otherwise just use the @abllee2198 funtction he usually responds to that.
     
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  12. abllee2198

    abllee2198 Rookie

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    10Shoe: The error codes may not be similar across the various models. For the ES5 Protech, E.50 and E.60 refer to machine bootup codes. If during startup the tensionhead is interrupted during its test loop, you will get either error codes. There is one microswitch you can easily replace and that's the one that activates pull when sliding the tension jaws shut. There is a metal cover that protects this microswitch. Should be readily available from Amazon, Newark Electronics, Mouser Electronics.

    OMRON Snap Action Micro Switch SPDT SS-5GL2

    Good Luck,

    Albert
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Yep!
     
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  14. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    I'm sorry to hear that. I don't have an ES-5 and there is no microswitch.

    BTW, I tried to email you yesterday to an old verizon address. It was returned undelivered.

    Thanks for giving it a go, I will go ahead and disassemble the machine and hopefully a good cleaning will solve the problem.
     
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  15. abllee2198

    abllee2198 Rookie

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    Since you're going to disassemble the machine anyway. The error codes are also tripped by the limit switches. Look for the two omron microswitches mounted on the printed circuit board. The omrons are black in color. They are part of the bootup sequence and represent the limit switches to keep tension head within bounds (or limits). I recommend you change these first. Take a sharpie and mark the position of the microswitches so you get the right alignment to the sawed off threaded screws (2, one for left limit and one for right limit).

    Good Luck,
    Albert
     
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  16. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    The problem always begins after successfully tensioning a string, on the return stroke. So, the tensioner has not traveled beyond mid stroke and the failure (E6) occurs early in the return stroke. The E5 errors (I have been using another machine for the last few days so my memory is not fresh) seem to come on the forward stroke only after having turned the machine off and attempted a re-start because of the E6 failure.
     
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  17. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    Ordered the 2 switches from Digi-Key. At $2.29/ea, if this works I am going to be one happy camper.
     
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  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If it works you need to remember abllee2198 told you how to fix it.
     
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  19. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    The limit switches arrived. There are 2 switches on the machine, one limits the forward stroke, the other limits the return stroke. I replaced the latter, for 2 reasons:
    1. It's easier to access. The other one is buried.
    2. It's the one that gets all the action. The other one only gets triggered if the tensioner travels to the end of its track. Since I never turn the machine off, the unit doesn't even get to do it's self test and as a result unless a string snaps during stringing the 2nd limit switch never sees any action.

    So, doing the deed:

    Replacing the switch sounds easier than it is. The leads are soldered. So in one hand I have my ancient Weller soldering gun. In another hand a length of solder wire. In another hand I am holding the wire. And in another hand I am holding the limit switch. I count 4 hands.

    Anyway, I got it done. Not sure how, probably guilty of cold soldering. But, bottom line, it didn't help. So, now I am trying to imagine the circumstances under which the other switch which I suspect is in an "always on" mode until triggered would suddenly develop an intermittent short. Oxidation due to lack of use? Who knows.

    In any event, my next step is to replace the 2nd switch in spite of my miserable soldering skills. But not today.
     
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  20. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You must be 50% octopus.
     
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  21. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    Progress report:

    After going through a period where the tension head would stop and issue an error code several times per stringing, the unit stopped entirely. The only way to get it to complete so much as a self test was to lean my finger against the diablo (push starting it like a car) while turning it on. As long as I kept my finger pressing against the diablo the tensioner would operate. Oddly, this was true even when the tensioner was reversing direction, so that I was pushing to the right while it was moving to the left. So long as there was sideways pressure on the diablo I was able to start the unit and get it to complete its self test.

    There is a considerable amount of electronics under the hood of one of these machines but otherwise it is a bunch of metal parts. As the lead screw turns, the tensioning assembly rides on the screw and moves back and forth like any tensioner. My first thought was that I needed to disassemble this tensioning assembly and clean, clean, clean. The first thing I removed from the tensioning assembly was a PC board, the only piece of electronics in direct contact with a moving part. This PCB has a slide potentiometer soldered to it. The slide potentiometer sits between the two Omron limit switches Albert spoke of.

    I decided to give the slide potentiometer a workout. It is capable of 25mm of sliding. My guess is, over the years it's probably not traveled even a 10th of that. So, I am imagining there is a very small active region and a lot of oxidized inactive space beyond it. My hope was I could clean its innards somewhat by working the slide back and forth. Then I reassembled the machine and started it up.

    And amazingly it started. I am back to getting error codes several times per stringing, but the unit is operational.

    Now the next step I guess is to buy a replacement for this potentiometer. I am however probably going to have a hell of a time installing it unless I buy an honest to goodness soldering station and a good solder sucker. This thing is soldered to the PCB in 3 places.
     
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  22. loosegroove

    loosegroove Hall of Fame

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    Replacing micro switches using a soldering gun no es bueno. That's like using a sledgehammer to drive the finishing nails in your trim. A cheapo soldering iron from Harbor Freight, Radio Shack, Amazon, or whatever is much better suited for the application. With that said, good luck getting things sorted out.
     
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  23. 10shoe

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    Well, I know everyone is waiting with bated breath for the latest installment in the continuing saga of this never ending tale, so here's the scoop. I have definitely isolated the problem correctly. I need to replace the slide potentiometer. I found a place in China that has stock but they are in the midst of a Spring Festival and aren't taking orders till the end of February. So I located a place in the US that claims to have them and they quoted me a price of $779.30 bwahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahhaa.

    In the meantime, my tools have arrived. I ordered a soldering station and a pair of thin 5.5mm open end wrenches to remove the locknuts. Here's a picture of what I have to deal with.

    [​IMG]

    The pink arrow points to the 5.5mm locknuts. The red arrow is the plunger portion of the potentiometer. The blue arrows are the rails that the carriage rides on. And the orange arrow is
    pointing to the lead screw. When the motor turns the screw, the carriage travels forward or back.

    Since I had the wrenches available, I did a little experiment. I put a couple shims under the right nut where the pink arrow is pointing. With two shims, I was able to string a racquet with absolutely no error codes and therefore no lockups. But putting those shims under there did something else. A kewpie doll to the first person who can guess what....
     
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  24. abllee2198

    abllee2198 Rookie

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    10shoe: My best guess is your shimming, moves the potentiometer contact off of a bad spot allowing you to string normally. Shim may also alter calibration, so you should check calibration.

    A. Lee

     
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  25. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    Albert wins the kewpie doll! Two tiny little shims lowered the calibration 7 lbs. I knew immediately something was cooking because normally the display reads zero on the forward stroke when there is no load (no string being pulled) and it was reading 7 instead.

    Question for @abllee2198. There is a small round port in the shield of the motherboard. Through that hole is a small screw type potentiometer, I believe they are known as trimpots. I have turned that screw in the past and decided it is intended for calibration but I also believe it is prone to developing bad spots from sitting untouched for long periods. So, last time I moved it I suffered with days and days of error codes. If I am unable to find a replacement for the slide potentiometer, I am thinking to stick with the shims (or maybe just one shim) and adjusting the trimpot to correct the calibration. Do you foresee any problems with that approach other than the possibility I hit a bad spot on the trimpot? Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  26. abllee2198

    abllee2198 Rookie

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    10Shoe: Need a photograph of the area where the potentiometer resides. My Toyo machine is different than yours and there is only one potentiometer on the moving platform that measures the compression of the reference spring. Potentiometers, generally, do not wear from just sitting.

    The slide potentiometer is called a Megatron (on Babolat Machines), they are also called Sakae LCP12-2988 1K Ohm linear +/- 0.5%. What is part number you are looking for?

    Albert


     
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  27. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    It's a Sakae. 13FLP25A. 1K ohm.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  28. abllee2198

    abllee2198 Rookie

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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  29. diredesire

    diredesire Adjunct Moderator

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    I'm with Albert in that it probably isn't an issue with the trimpot. However, if it IS, you can debug/troubleshoot this by measuring the value of the trimpot and then replacing it with the equivalent resistor. This will just give you some peace of mind if you're (already) skilled at hardware rework.

    Looks like ETI is actually the distributor for Sakae in the US - http://sakae-tsushin.co.jp/eng_page/agency/index.html

    Those other companies might give you some leads if you want to replace with like-for-like.
     
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  30. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    Please re-read my post. I didn't say there was an issue with the trimpot. What I did ask was whether I could just keep my old Sakae by using the trimpot to bring calibration in line. So, for instance, just use one shim (throwing calibration off 3.5 lbs) and fixing the incorrect calibration by adjusting the trimpot. Again, this trimpot is on the MAIN processing board and is accessible through a hole designed into the shield/heatsink that covers the MAIN board. Is that trimpot responsible for calibration? If not, what's its purpose?

    Thanks!
     
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  31. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    One way to find out! Adjust until your no pull reading is 0# rather than 3.5#. I would think you have a manual that tells you what is needed to calibrate the machine? If they are like most eCP, they have a calibration procedure to get the right tension (with measurement device) at low, medium and high ref tension. Your calibration may not be off at all, just what the machine thinks is going on. 3¢
     
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  32. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    My question wasn't whether it would work. My question was whether there was a problem with doing it, or to put it another way, would it result in me frying something even more difficult and expensive to replace.

    This tension head is intended to be self calibrating. As such, there is no calibration procedure and no instructions from the mfr. I only guessed the purpose of the trimpot.

    When I did tinker with the trimpot, the impression I got was that the internal contacts were heavily oxidized in every position other than where they had been sitting since the unit was originally built. I don't know if it is possible to get solid contact if I turn the screw from its current position.

    At the moment, I have disassembled the motor as well, so I am not able to test anything. I recently replaced the carbon brushes but the motor runs very noisy. I am going to need to have the commutator turned on a lathe. New bearings are on the way also.
     
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  33. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    You're a braver man than me. I would not even attempt to repair the electronics. Replace, yes, since leaving old components around has a tendency to bollix up something else. I would not touch the trimpot if I suspect oxidation. Only thing I would do is test that the offset was constant or otherwise determine what setting pulled what tension according to a calibration device. But it is your machine. Maybe Albert will chime in. Good Luck.
     
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  34. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    The P3 equivalent does look to be a perfect replacement and the price I have been quoted is excellent. The lead time (10 weeks) not so excellent.

    I don't know what to make of ETI. According to Sakae's website, ETI is their distributor here in the US but I don't see the FLP series available.

    Albert, thanks for the lead on P3. I was thinking the Sakae unit was my only option but the specs of the P3 really do appear to be identical.
     
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  35. 10shoe

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    Update:

    The slide potentiometer recommended my @abllee2198 arrived in June and installing it was actually not very difficult. So thanks Albert for the suggestion of going with the P3 replacement for the Sakae part.

    I only strung up one racquet with the tension head, as a test. I still have issues with the motor which continues to run noisy even with new bearings. I am almost certain I need to have the commutator turned on a lathe and am going round and round in my head on how I'm going to get that done.
     
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  36. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    Update:

    The slide potentiometer recommended my @abllee2198 arrived in June and installing it was actually not very difficult. So thanks Albert for the suggestion of going with the P3 replacement for the Sakae part.

    I only strung up one racquet with the tension head, as a test. I still have issues with the motor which continues to run noisy even with new bearings. I am almost certain I need to have the commutator turned on a lathe and am going round and round in my head on how I'm going to get that done.
     
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  37. mmk

    mmk Hall of Fame

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    Google electric motor repair
     
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  38. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

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    I did google electric motor repair and I drove about 15 miles to the shop. The guy there didn't exactly refuse to do the job, but did a good approximation of it.
     
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