Erste Bank Open 2023 - J. SINNER (2) vs D. MEDVEDEV (1)

[Honza]

Trust me, I'm not a staunch nationalist or especially patriotic. But it's just an embedded, irrational reflex for me to root for Italian tennis players. And after decades of utter mediocrity, it's nice to have a horse of this caliber in the race.

Cool, im happy for you

 

[BeatlesFan]

Horrible person. I have no respect for Med or anyone who defends him. He is the worst presence on Tour by a large distance. Not pulling any more punches. He needs to be seen for what he is.

I found this remark on another tennis board today - this guy agrees with you:

Great result for tennis and better person won too. Medvedev and Tsitsipas are two salty divas from that Nextgen fraud who keep acting as if they are the biggest thing since Rod Laver. Someone should tell them the hype is over.

 

[robyrolfo]

Really nice final and really happy for Sinner. These may only be 500 level events, but the players he has beaten on the sharp end were all legit.

As others have said, Medvedev was playing really well and probably would have beaten most other guys on the tour with ease (including ANYONE in the Basel field).

Lastly, on his antics, I just see Medvedev as super-competitive and losing makes him a little crazy. Off the court he seems like a thoughtful and nice guy, so I'll give him the chance to keep the antics on-court only, and get away with it.

What a match!!
BO3 of the year after Cincinnati final?

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing. The Cincinnati final was amazing. One of the best matches I have ever seen, but this is #2 on the season for me.

Chicken legs devours Russian bear!

Um, Eubanks wasn't playing today, so...

Now even the Romans are complaining about Rome

Oh, Romans actually LOVE to complain about Rome. It's like a hobby for them (but only they are allowed to do it. If an outsider criticizes Rome, it doesn't go over well at all).

Sinner, in any case, has always stated that he feels South Tyrolean and Italian, and he recently revealed that he now thinks and even dreams in Italian.

I love this. Now, the big question is: do we know what football team he supports?

 

[Baseline_Bungle]

Oh, Romans actually LOVE to complain about Rome. It's like a hobby for them (but only they are allowed to do it. If an outsider criticizes Rome, it doesn't go over well at all).

That is indeed true, not just for Romans but for most Italians - with their city and their country. I think it's kind of human nature though. Personally, I tend to be fairly critical of everyone and everything. But I find myself defending (even boasting about) Italy with Americans, and America with Italians.

I love this. Now, the big question is: do we know what football team he supports?

He's Milanista, says he started rooting for them in Bordighera because his roommate was a diehard fan. But he seems to be a VERY casual fan - barely knows any players and doesn't seem to follow closely at all. Ironically, his "hometown" team Sudtiroler (from Bolzano) is currently in Serie B, an incredible result for a tiny team with a 2000-seat stadium that's always floundered in amateur or semi-professional divisions. And they are doing quite well! If the season ended today, they'd be in the playoffs for a spot in Serie A...

 

[Aabye5]

Really nice final and really happy for Sinner. These may only be 500 level events, but the players he has beaten on the sharp end were all legit.

Only 500 events. When did 500 events become only 500s?

As others have said, Medvedev was playing really well and probably would have beaten most other guys on the tour with ease (including ANYONE in the Basel field).

Lastly, on his antics, I just see Medvedev as super-competitive and losing makes him a little crazy. Off the court he seems like a thoughtful and nice guy, so I'll give him the chance to keep the antics on-court only, and get away with it.

Med was annoyed in part because Jannik didn't apologize for a net cord. Love it or hate it, it is still the custom on court.

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing. The Cincinnati final was amazing. One of the best matches I have ever seen, but this is #2 on the season for me.

Um, Eubanks wasn't playing today, so...


Oh, Romans actually LOVE to complain about Rome. It's like a hobby for them (but only they are allowed to do it. If an outsider criticizes Rome, it doesn't go over well at all).

So, if an outsider actually does what the Romans do, the natives object...hmm.

I love this. Now, the big question is: do we know what football team he supports?

No clue, but Jan showed off his own football skills towards the end (?) of the match.

 

[Mainad]

Title no.10 for Sinner (now level with Tsitsipas and Ruud on 10 titles each amongst the current top #10), 4th this season and 3rd at ATP500 level. He joins Panatta as 1 of only 2 Italian players to get into double figures in titles won in the Open Era.

 

[Arak]

I am Italian and have been there many times - by far one of the most beautiful areas in the world. I'm also quite well versed in history It is true that many South Tyroleans don't feel Italian, but they don't feel Austrian either. And a few years ago, when all the talk was raging about granting them dual citizenship (the Kurz administration was a big proponent of the idea), an overwhelming majority of South Tyroleans said they weren't interested.

Sinner, in any case, has always stated that he feels South Tyrolean and Italian, and he recently revealed that he now thinks and even dreams in Italian.

I think they got a very good deal from Italy and they’re happy with their autonomous status. It seems they pay only 10% of their taxes to the central government, and keep the rest for local development. It’s a fantastic deal to be honest so no wonder they have no interest to join Austria administratively. Anyhow, with open borders in europe, it doesn’t matter anymore if you’re in Italy or Austria or France.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

Great final overall. But so much efforts. Both were cramping a bit in the 3rd. Is it really worthy? It's only a 500, guys.
We saw what happened to both after Rotterdam and Beijing. In IW they were both obliterated by Alcaraz. In Shanghaï they couldn't get past the 3rd round. Sinner also lost early in Cincinnati after he won Toronto.

I mean, Masters1000 are much more important and valuable than ATP500.
Everyone knows Djokovic has 39 M1000, Nadal 36 and Federer 28. At least for those who know a little about tennis... Slams are the most important titles, then M1000 are close second.
But who remembers the winners of ATP500? Can anyone tell how many 500 for the Big-3 (without looking the information online first)? No. In 2 years from now very few people will remember who won Vienna, Rotterdam, Dubaï or Beijing in 2023.

I respect Medvedev and Sinner but they will most likely pay the price in Paris and maybe Turin. The semifinals against Tsitsipas/Rublev and that final were very intense and demanding. They looked exhausted in the 3rd set. It reminded me of the 5th set of Zverev-Sinner in NY. I won't be shocked if they don't even make the SF in Paris... If they do, Djokovic and Alcaraz may mop the floor with them. These 2 will be fresh like a daisy. I could be wrong of course, but it's my feeling. Hopefully they learn from this next year, especially Sinner. I feel bad when I see him playing so well in 500 and then tanking Slam and M1000 matches. If they want to win a Slam in 2024, they'll have to skip some of these 500...

 

[Rovesciarete]

I think they got a very good deal from Italy and they’re happy with their autonomous status. It seems they pay only 10% of their taxes to the central government, and keep the rest for local development. It’s a fantastic deal to be honest so no wonder they have no interest to join Austria administratively. Anyhow, with open borders in europe, it doesn’t matter anymore if you’re in Italy or Austria or France.

The various autonomous regions and provinces of Italy have a different status. For example the provincial government in Southtyrol handles most streets and schools. It is the only autonomous province which sends more tax revenue to the state than it receives. Autonomous Sicily gets a lot, while big Lombardy contributes by far the most.

I'm pretty sure that Sinner will play many time in Vienna as it is not too far away from his home valley. The Davis Cup is in my opinion surprisingly important for him even if wasn't there in the group stage. I think we will see him playing fewer tourneys in 2024 as he will go deeper in masters and slams, especially if he enters the Australian Open in the top 4.

 

[Move]

Great final overall. But so much efforts. Both were cramping a bit in the 3rd. Is it really worthy? It's only a 500, guys.
We saw what happened to both after Rotterdam and Beijing. In IW they were both obliterated by Alcaraz. In Shanghaï they couldn't get past the 3rd round. Sinner also lost early in Cincinnati after he won Toronto.

I mean, Masters1000 are much more important and valuable than ATP500.
Everyone knows Djokovic has 39 M1000, Nadal 36 and Federer 28. At least for those who know a little about tennis... Slams are the most important titles, then M1000 are close second.
But who remembers the winners of ATP500? Can anyone tell how many 500 for the Big-3 (without looking the information online first)? No. In 2 years from now very few people will remember who won Vienna, Rotterdam, Dubaï or Beijing in 2023.

I respect Medvedev and Sinner but they will most likely pay the price in Paris and maybe Turin. The semifinals against Tsitsipas/Rublev and that final were very intense and demanding. They looked exhausted in the 3rd set. It reminded me of the 5th set of Zverev-Sinner in NY. I won't be shocked if they don't even make the SF in Paris... If they do, Djokovic and Alcaraz may mop the floor with them. These 2 will be fresh like a daisy. I could be wrong of course, but it's my feeling. Hopefully they learn from this next year, especially Sinner. I feel bad when I see him playing so well in 500 and then tanking Slam and M1000 matches. If they want to win a Slam in 2024, they'll have to skip some of these 500...

Agree with your analysis but I think also the H2H played a part in this final : Med had got a 6-0 H2H and Jannik wants to prove he is now able to turn this around. As I said after Bejing, this looks a bit like the Federer / Nalbandian saga where Nalbandian had a 5-0 H2H when they entered the Tour. To me it seems Jannik has now - good coaching - more self belief - a better serve - more diversity in his play. I think maybe he should show up and then quit in Paris and go full in on Turin. If he stays healthy and gains more physique during the pause 2024 could become his breakthrough year. Beating inform Medvedev on indoor HC is a litmus test. Jannik has skills which are very hard to aquire : return of serve, free flowing strokes when in the zone, almost Djokovic like.

 

[Rovesciarete]

Jannik has skills which are very hard to aquire : return of serve, free flowing strokes when in the zone, almost Djokovic like.

Those two are arguably the two of the biggest reasons why quite a few saw early a bright future for Jannik. I would add an already good height for a tennis player when he won his first challenger.

It has become quite clear that the proven ability to steadily improve has to be among the top 4 reasons why Sinner will do well in the next years.

 

[Move]

Those two are arguably the two of the biggest reasons why quite a few saw early a bright future for Jannik. I would add an already good height for a tennis player when he won his first challenger.

It has become quite clear that the proven ability to steadily improve has to be among the top 4 reasons why Sinner will do well in the next years.

Also he has the piece of mind mentally it seemed to me when he was winning his challengers in Italy. No yelling, racket smashing, hardly negative on himself. Very matured already then.

 

[Mainad]

Great final overall. But so much efforts. Both were cramping a bit in the 3rd. Is it really worthy? It's only a 500, guys.
We saw what happened to both after Rotterdam and Beijing. In IW they were both obliterated by Alcaraz. In Shanghaï they couldn't get past the 3rd round. Sinner also lost early in Cincinnati after he won Toronto.

I mean, Masters1000 are much more important and valuable than ATP500.
Everyone knows Djokovic has 39 M1000, Nadal 36 and Federer 28. At least for those who know a little about tennis... Slams are the most important titles, then M1000 are close second.
But who remembers the winners of ATP500? Can anyone tell how many 500 for the Big-3 (without looking the information online first)? No. In 2 years from now very few people will remember who won Vienna, Rotterdam, Dubaï or Beijing in 2023.

I respect Medvedev and Sinner but they will most likely pay the price in Paris and maybe Turin. The semifinals against Tsitsipas/Rublev and that final were very intense and demanding. They looked exhausted in the 3rd set. It reminded me of the 5th set of Zverev-Sinner in NY. I won't be shocked if they don't even make the SF in Paris... If they do, Djokovic and Alcaraz may mop the floor with them. These 2 will be fresh like a daisy. I could be wrong of course, but it's my feeling. Hopefully they learn from this next year, especially Sinner. I feel bad when I see him playing so well in 500 and then tanking Slam and M1000 matches. If they want to win a Slam in 2024, they'll have to skip some of these 500...

Medvedev was spurred on by the need to make his 1st title defence and mentioned this in his post-match speech. Sinner was motivated by the desire to keep up the pressure on Medvedev after beating him in Beijing.

Some 500s are more prestigious than others eg. Queen's (London) and Halle which fulfil the role of 2nd tier grasscourt events in the absence of a grass Masters. Barcelona and Basel have carried a lot of prestige too becaue of Nadal and Federer.
Bear in mind also that some 500s like Vienna and Basel are their countries' biggest events.

 

[mike danny]

Really nice final and really happy for Sinner. These may only be 500 level events, but the players he has beaten on the sharp end were all legit.

This. There have been several 500's or even 250's that were more impressive than a masters 1000 over the years.

 

[mike danny]

Oh, Romans actually LOVE to complain about Rome. It's like a hobby for them (but only they are allowed to do it. If an outsider criticizes Rome, it doesn't go over well at all).

Doesn't that apply to every country though? Mostly its residents having the right to complain about it.

 

[Mainad]

Doesn't that apply to every country though? Mostly its residents having the right to complain about it.

This.

It's ok to complain about your own but not when anybody else does it.

 

[robyrolfo]

He's Milanista, says he started rooting for them in Bordighera because his roommate was a diehard fan. But he seems to be a VERY casual fan - barely knows any players and doesn't seem to follow closely at all. Ironically, his "hometown" team Sudtiroler (from Bolzano) is currently in Serie B, an incredible result for a tiny team with a 2000-seat stadium that's always floundered in amateur or semi-professional divisions. And they are doing quite well! If the season ended today, they'd be in the playoffs for a spot in Serie A...

Oh, right, I almost forgot about the amazing story that is FC Sudtirol (and similarly Feralpisalo)... but yes, I get the impression he doesn't care much about soccer/football.

Med was annoyed in part because Jannik didn't apologize for a net cord. Love it or hate it, it is still the custom on court.

When did that happen? I must have missed it. Sinner is usually very polite/correct on court, so it's a little surprising.

What's funny is that I'm always very apologetic about net cords when I play (not so much for sportsmanship, but I genuinely feel bad about getting cheap points), but my favorite Camila Giorgi almost never apologizes for them. Likewise, she never gets too annoyed about her opponent's net cords either, and I appreciate her balanced, no-nonsense approach.

Great final overall. But so much efforts. Both were cramping a bit in the 3rd. Is it really worthy? It's only a 500, guys.
We saw what happened to both after Rotterdam and Beijing. In IW they were both obliterated by Alcaraz. In Shanghaï they couldn't get past the 3rd round. Sinner also lost early in Cincinnati after he won Toronto.
I mean, Masters1000 are much more important and valuable than ATP500.
Everyone knows Djokovic has 39 M1000, Nadal 36 and Federer 28. At least for those who know a little about tennis... Slams are the most important titles, then M1000 are close second.
But who remembers the winners of ATP500? Can anyone tell how many 500 for the Big-3 (without looking the information online first)? No. In 2 years from now very few people will remember who won Vienna, Rotterdam, Dubaï or Beijing in 2023.

As others have said, it was more about the matchups. If you end up playing guys like Alcaraz and Medvedev, you are going to do your best to win. Especially against Medvedev who seemed to have his number. So as important as the tournament win might be (or not be), these results are almost as important as building blocks for the future. So now if he plays these guys in a bigger event, he has the knowledge that he can beat them. Sinner is still relatively young, so he is still thinking about building for the long term.

It's sort of like that Djokovic v Sinner final over the summer. It was "just" a Masters1000, which isn't really a huge goal for either of them, but they both went VERY deep, risking injury ahead of the USO, just to get a psychological edge for the future.

Doesn't that apply to every country though? Mostly its residents having the right to complain about it.

Yes, it is a very common trait, but in my experience the Romans do a little more complaining and self-criticizing than most others.

 

[Aabye5]

Oh, right, I almost forgot about the amazing story that is FC Sudtirol (and similarly Feralpisalo)... but yes, I get the impression he doesn't care much about soccer/football.

When did that happen? I must have missed it. Sinner is usually very polite/correct on court, so it's a little surprising.

What's funny is that I'm always very apologetic about net cords when I play (not so much for sportsmanship, but I genuinely feel bad about getting cheap points), but my favorite Camila Giorgi almost never apologizes for them. Likewise, she never gets too annoyed about her opponent's net cords either, and I appreciate her balanced, no-nonsense approach.

It's interesting, it may depend on the broadcast, because the announcers didn't pick up on it but one of the posters mentioned it above. It's possible Sinner was simply caught up in the moment and turned his back, but for whatever reason Med took it personally.

I saw for a fact that he was upset about Sinner doing the limp-and-race song-and-dance. Player should generally be given the benefit of the doubt but Med was not having it for a minute. He was on the scene.

As others have said, it was more about the matchups. If you end up playing guys like Alcaraz and Medvedev, you are going to do your best to win. Especially against Medvedev who seemed to have his number. So as important as the tournament win might be (or not be), these results are almost as important as building blocks for the future. So now if he plays these guys in a bigger event, he has the knowledge that he can beat them. Sinner is still relatively young, so he is still thinking about building for the long term.

It's sort of like that Djokovic v Sinner final over the summer. It was "just" a Masters1000, which isn't really a huge goal for either of them, but they both went VERY deep, risking injury ahead of the USO, just to get a psychological edge for the future.

It was huge for Jannik. He finally got the monkey off his back, and took home his own after looking so forlorn when Med and Hubi lofted their trophies.

From this, to that:

Yes, it is a very common trait, but in my experience the Romans do a little more complaining and self-criticizing than most others.

You have a longer history for sure, but it's built into the very foundation of that damn Yankee system.