D
Deleted member 758560
Guest
If it was Novak beating Bolt in some poll you would have been all over the place.
ESPN voters choose Nadal as most dominant athlete (individual or team) of the 21st century
- Thread starter octogon
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NoleFam
Bionic Poster
But you just said it was all about flat speed and basically not different than the 100m. Which is it?
I didn't see where anyone said it was an example of versatility. I only see where you brought that up but the 100m and 200m are not the same races, so make of that what you will. Bolt is 6-0 at the Olympics, 3-0 in both. That's what matters since it shows his level of dominance.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
We'll just have to wait.You don’t know it will happen, neither do you know who will win them. It’s all hypothetical.
If it was Novak beating Bolt in some poll you would have been all over the place.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
I stopped reading here.
You said "the two races are nothing alike" which strongly implied to me a versatility statement. Of course they aren't the exact same race, but they also aren't different enough (especially compared to 200 and 400) for me to be overly impressed when someone says "the two races are nothing alike". When I trained athletics, just about everyone who excelled at 100 metres, also excelled at the 200. It's one of the easier things to double up in. Which isn't to say anyone will ever be as good as Bolt in doing it, or for as long.
zagor
Bionic Poster
junior74
Bionic Poster
To be at your best for those 10-20 seconds year in year out is like if tennis was just one set. I have the utmost respect for Rafa's career and his RG results are sick, but Bolt's record is without a flaw. And while tennis has a lot more variables, you still can't beat a perfect record - so Bolt is more dominating.
Which achievement is more "impressive" - is a different discussion.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Sugar Ray Robinson
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Along with countless other boxing legends Mayweather could never be in the same conversation.
junior74
Bionic Poster
Mayweather is in his sport's GOAT debate, which is why I said "arguably". Don't shoot the messenger.
This is delusional. You can argue that he isn't the greatest boxer ever, but he is in that conversation. Certainty, he's widely seen as maybe the best defensive boxer ever.
Not sure I agree with this analogy. Sure, everything is shorter in sprinting, but in things like the Olympics, sprinters have several rounds to work themselves into winning form before a final. Those rounds are the equivalent of "sets". By the time someone like Bolt gets to the final, he's had a lot of time to peak to be at his best.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
No, you suffer from recency bias if you think Mayweather is anything close to a boxing “Best of all time” as you paint him to be. There were five guys in his own weight range I rate much higher than that little dancing queen...both Sugar Rays (Robinson the GOAT pound for pound), Duran, Hearns and Sweet Pea Pernell Whitaker. But believe what you want, Gen Z’er.
junior74
Bionic Poster
Four rounds of 10 seconds. Perhaps the equivalent to a set at best. Everything is at stake, no mistake can be made or you're out. Not so in tennis. RG2006 is a good example. Rafa got served a breadstick in the first set, then turns it around and wins. That's like crashing into a hurdle in track and field. There's no opportunity for a comeback.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
No, that would be Sweet Pea Pernell Whitaker. Mayweather is more suited to compete on Dancing With The Stars or to carry the Irish thug UFC crossover Conor McGregor for 10 rounds in an event that desecrated the Sweet Science like no other “boxing” competition.
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Such a beautiful and dominant boat. Rafa's poor IW results can perhaps be explained by the following photo. Perhaps Thiem
should get a bigger boat, so he can start dominating Rafa at RG
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
Nadal's sport is hand-eye coordination. It's a multi-discipline sport.
Do you see how that sounds? It's not true, for one, and it's much too broad. Tennis is a game of speed, hand-eye coordination, power, tactics, mental fortitude, and endurance. Running is a sport of speed, endurance, tactics. To take away what Bolt has earned to say "wow, the guy can only run faster than anyone else on the planet, but why can't he do it for 400m" is like asking Nadal why he can't be the best golfer on the planet. Golf takes hand-eye coordination, power, tactics, so naturally Nadal should do great there. It's because the skill sets required are different, just like for 100m and 400m.
However, the skill sets required for playing RG are no different than the skill sets for any other clay court tournament. Over 10 years (almost his whole career), Bolt lost in only 1 world championship, and never lost at the Olympics (9 gold medals). Nadal in a similar time frame lost once at his favorite tournament, and twice at his second-favorite.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
"Usain Bolt isn't a marathon runner so how can you say he's the best at his sport?"
Really? If you start gatekeeping sports, you'll have to ask why Nadal hasn't dominated pickleball, badminton, and squash. They all use racquets.
If you're asking for versatility in dominance, why are you not asking for the same thing from Nadal? First off, he doesn't dominate any other racquet sport. Second, he didn't dominate any other surface in tennis. Thirdly, you can even argue that he didn't dominate clay to the extent Bolt dominated his sport. Bolt doesn't have a rival he lost to 30% of the time while sprinting - Nadal has a 17-7 record against Djokovic.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Floyd Mayweather will probably crack up if he sees the results. Ranting recently because he was ranked below Sugar Ray Leonard on a greatest welterweight list. ''How can these guys be experts?''
I'm not arguing for versatility in dominance. Someone else was making that argument, so that was my counter-argument.
Do keep up, dear boy.LOL!
Also, the feats of dominance being pit against each other in this poll are Bolt at the Olympics and Nadal at the French Open. Not Bolt at every other running event or Nadal at every single clay court tournament.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
Then please tell me why you said the following:
If we're only talking about the Olympics vs RG, then saying "Usain Bolt didn't run the 400, so he isn't as dominant" is like saying "Nadal didn't play doubles, so he isn't as dominant." My argument was on the sport as a whole (I'm assuming you now agree that Bolt was more dominant in his sport) , but if you want to make this about specific tournaments, sure.
Bolt never lost at the Olympics. You can't say the same for Nadal. Nadal lost twice, and he let three RGs get away from him (12/15 - 80%). Usain Bolt didn't lose a single race at the Olympics - even when his win relied on other runners (9/9 - 100%). Hell, if Usain Bolt lost one of those races, he'd still be ahead of Nadal in strike rate with an 89%.
I said the following because I was making a counter-argument against "versatility" that someone was making for Bolt and Phelps. That is all. Moving on shall we...I'm getting a headache. Haha!
Anyway...3 Olympic Games vs 15 editions of Roland Garros. Even with Rafa not winning 3, it's easy to make the argument that his dominance is more impressive. Which is probably why he is beating Bolt comfortably.
E36BMWM3
Hall of Fame
Still won them though soooooo STFU
Based on his dominance of the French Open, Nadal is about to be crowned the most dominant athlete of the 21st century by voters on ESPN.
In the rounds,Nadal defeated Kobe Bryant's LA Lakers, undeafeated boxing legend Floyd Mayweather Jr and dominant Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps.
The final is between Nadal and sprinting GOAT Usain Bolt. While voting is not yet closed, Nadal's lead against Bolt (nearly 70% of the vote so far) looks to be insurmountable, so he'll offically be declared by ESPN to be the most dominant athlete or sporting team of the 21st century tomorrow.
Fan vote: Rafael Nadal at French Open beats Usain Bolt at Olympics in final
In the final, our readers chose Rafael Nadal at Roland Garros over Usain Bolt at the Olympics.www.espn.co.uk
I looked at the poll to see where Novak came in the recognition stakes and he didn't make the top 16.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
Listen, bud. You replied to me first, I just said Usain Bolt being more dominant in his sport at large was a factor in my decision here. Go ahead and disagree with my using that as a criterion, but I feel Usain couldn't have done any better at the Olympics. The fact that he only lost 1 World Championship race in the last 10 years is useful to me in making my decision, as clearly those Olympics wins aren't flukes.
Nadal is super impressive at RG, same as Bolt at the Olympics. Some will say one, some will say the other. Live and let live.
D
Deleted member 770948
Guest
Also Rafa only needs ONE more US Open to tie Connors-Sampras-Federer with FIVE US Opens!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I think because Novak has gotten more heat recently in tennis GOAT debates (and fairly so), made some of his fans possibly overestimate how highly he was thought of in the wider world, outside of tennis fans compared to Rafa. This poll is probably something of a reality check. In that to the wider world, outside just tennis fans, Nadal's achievements are seen to be far more undeniable and legendary than Novak's.
So I can see why the results of this poll might trigger some Novak fans, who felt they were maybe gaining ground on Nadal in "greatness" arguments. They probably didn't realise that Nadal was this respected by sports fans outside tennis, that he could crush the likes of Bolt and Michael Phelps in polls rating their achievements or dominance. For the whole century, no less.
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Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Yuck!!!!!!Also Rafa only needs ONE more US Open to tie Connors-Sampras-Federer with FIVE US Opens!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
But he lost a medal so he's at 8/9
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Eww no!You mean yum
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Don't mean to go all ballet dancing on you all but there was something more aesthetically pleasing about Pernell Whitaker's defense. Looked so fluid. Yes, no doubt Floyd Mayweather has some impressive numbers. 
I just prefer Sweet Pea.
''Slippery as a wet bar of soap.''
I just prefer Sweet Pea.''Slippery as a wet bar of soap.''
Novak on merit alone should have featured far higher in the poll but we live in world of bias and prejudice.
PeoplesChamp
Legend
There's no denying that specifically at RG, Nadal is without question the most dominant anyone has ever been at one tournament and surface to boot. He deserves this win. I'm good with it.
This poll as you can see was fair and not based on popularity. Federer was also in this poll and lost in the QF. Voters are intelligent enough to see most of the same things that TTW experts see. Atleast the obvious things like this.
Well done voters. You have validated every GOAT poll before now that Federer won which is ALL OF THEM Good job!
This poll as you can see was fair and not based on popularity. Federer was also in this poll and lost in the QF. Voters are intelligent enough to see most of the same things that TTW experts see. Atleast the obvious things like this.
Well done voters. You have validated every GOAT poll before now that Federer won which is ALL OF THEM Good job!
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ADuck
Legend
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Domination can be sectorial too, no?
Could be clay but could be the service game too.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Agree. For me it is Bolt also.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Plus he's bae af
The dude seriously has some wide shoulders. Built to be in the water.
Interesting, how all the Djokovic fans in this thread, are passionate supporters of Bolt now! LOL!
As tennis fans, we should all applaud that a tennis player is beating all these GOAT level athletes and teams from different sports in a general public poll on a major platform. It might not be your favorite tennis player doing the beating, but tennis wins at the end of the day.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Now?! - Since when have you ever seen me trash Bolt here.
I am not only a tennis fan, I am a sports fans in general and for me personally Bolt is the most dominant. This is my personal opinion, don't get so upset over it.
I didn't say you trashed Bolt or were not a general sports fan. Just made the general observation that almost every Djokovic fan on this thread is supporting Bolt. As a pattern it looks a bit salty and insecure. Like Novak fans can't stand seeing Nadal recieve this kind of accolade.
Apologies to any Djokovic fans who are legit Bolt fans as well, but it just reads a certain way on a thread like this.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
That is an unwarranted claim, I can say that you are being salty and very triggered with anyone who doesn't agree with ESPN and are trying to tell them they didn't have such opinions from before. Why be so confrontational about it, accept that not everyone agrees with that opinion. I watch A LOT of sport, tennis is a part of it, but only a part of it.
There is no doubt that in tennis, Nadal has the the most dominant record - that being at RG, I would stand by that always, and it is also true that it is ONE of the most dominant things in sport. I though do not put Nadal over Bolt, you can agree with ESPN and I respect that, but learn to respect that others have different opinions also, and they don't always come from a salty place.
Why would I be salty or triggered? Nadal has just been voted the most dominant athlete of the 21st century by general sports fans on ESPN. That's big. As a Nadal fan, I'm grinning like a Cheshire cat.LOL!
And I have been respectful of people who prefer Bolt, even if I disagree. I was just making an observation. Don't take it personally.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Tennis is the biggest individual sport in the world. Much more competition than the sport Bolt is doing. That must mean something in this as well!
Otherwise this Norwegian biathlon skier could have won this
Got the most medals in Olympics I think. But w a sport not many are doing it’s not as relevant.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Your confrontational response to anyone who doesn't agree with Nadal being the most dominant. Be a little bit more tolerant, and please don't come at me and accuse me of saying it from a salty place.
I am taking it personally because you are making preconceived notions about why and where my opinion comes from. I suggest you don't start giving your observations for everyone who doesn't agree with it and you, as I did, I reversed it on you and wasn't right was it? So how about we all give each other a little bit of courtesy here and accept opinions can and will be different.
Happy for you that ESPN said it was Nadal, that should be enough for you, instead of taking shots at those who don't fully agree.
I'm politely and rationally debating with people on a thread I started. If that's what you consider "confrontational", perhaps you need to get out more.
I'm done. I said it wasn't a personal attack on you, and you are doubling down with the tediously sanctimonious lectures instead of just saying "fair enough" and moving the hell on.
I'm moving on from this conversation now. Nothing left to be said.
