ESPN voters choose Nadal as most dominant athlete (individual or team) of the 21st century

octogon said:
I'm politely and rationally debating with people on a thread I started. If that's what you consider "confrontational", perhaps you need to get out more.
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This is what you said to me after I simply just disagreed with what ESPN said.

As a pattern it looks a bit salty and insecure. Like Novak fans can't stand seeing Nadal recieve this kind of accolade.

This is you showing your intolerance to anyone having a difference of opinion and making preconceived notions that you think it is a salty and insecure....you are saying I am salty and insecure, that is a personal attack on me for me having a different opinion. I certainly didn't say anything personal to you. If calling people salty and insecure is your idea of being polite and rational, then I hate to see when you aren't being that way....I'll get out more, don't worry, maybe you need to brush up on what is considered polite and rational, because it seems you are a lacking if calling someone salty and insecure is your definition of polite.

octogon said:
I'm done. I said it wasn't a personal attack on you, and you are doubling down with the sanctimonious lecture instead of just saying "fair enough" and moving the hell on.

I'm moving on from this conversation now. Nothing left to be said.
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So I should say - Hey Fair Enough that you are calling me salty and insecure because I don't agree, but when I say you are salty and triggered because other's don't agree with the opinion, then it is all wrong? LOL

Yeah, nothing more needs to be said after that.
 
You could definitely argue he has been. But many others as well. The only problem is Rafa could only say that about one tourney to be honest.

You can argue that is enough, but people like Phelps, Tiger, Bolt, Fed, and others come to mind as well.
 
Most dominant overall could be argued, but the way the debate there was phrased showed it was most dominant at a specific venue (i.e. Bolt at Olympics vs Rafa at FO).

In that case, it's Rafa at FO. It's just way less likely for even a dominant tennis player to win B05 clay matches like that to that rate of 93-2 and especially 12 wins in 15 appearances. Nadal stands above his peers in terms of record at a particular grand slam (and surface) more than any other athlete, including Bolt or Phelps etc. Pretty sure that's why he won and it's justified.
 
Imo none of the big 3 should be in that conversation because either of them lost so many finals and semi finals. All 3 are great but they basically shared titles at an equal amount.

Bolt and Phelps won a ton too but they also hardly ever lost which is not true for the big 3
 
Hitman said:
This is what you said to me after I simply just disagreed with what ESPN said.

As a pattern it looks a bit salty and insecure. Like Novak fans can't stand seeing Nadal recieve this kind of accolade.

This is you showing your intolerance to anyone having a difference of opinion and making preconceived notions that you think it is a salty and insecure....you are saying I am salty and insecure, that is a personal attack on me for me having a different opinion. I certainly didn't say anything personal to you. If calling people salty and insecure is your idea of being polite and rational, then I hate to see when you aren't being that way....I'll get more, don't worry, maybe you need to brush up on what is considered polite and rational, because it seems you are a lacking if calling someone salty and insecure is you definition of polite.



So I should say - Hey Fair Enough that you are calling me salty and insecure because I don't agree, but when I say you are salty and triggered because other's don't agree with the opinion, then it is all wrong? LOL

Yeah, nothing more needs to be said after that.
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I also said I apologise to any Novak fans who may be genuinely fans of Bolt's dominance. So if you are one of those, that apology applied to you.

I made an observation about the "optics" of every Djokovic fan on this thread seeming to support Bolt (it's not neccesarily a great look. As adults we can admit that), but also clarified that some of these Djokovic fans may also be legitimate in their preference for Bolt.

I never personally called you salty and insecure. It was an observation as to how the Djokovic fanbase as a whole might appear to some on this thread, with the blanket support of Bolt.

I was trying to make a nuanced statement, but that doesn't always work out well on the internet.
 
junior74 said:
To be at your best for those 10-20 seconds year in year out is like if tennis was just one set. I have the utmost respect for Rafa's career and his RG results are sick, but Bolt's record is without a flaw. And while tennis has a lot more variables, you still can't beat a perfect record - so Bolt is more dominating.

Which achievement is more "impressive" - is a different discussion.
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It's kind of tricky
 
octogon said:
I also said I apologise to any Novak fans who may be genuinely fans of Bolt's dominance. So if you are one of those, that apology applied to you.

I made an observation about the "optics" of every Djokovic fan on this thread seeming to support Bolt (it's not neccesarily a great look. As adults we can admit that), but also clarified that some of these Djokovic fans may also be legitimate in their preference for Bolt.

I never personally called you salty and insecure. It was an observation as to how the Djokovic fanbase as a whole might appear to some on this thread, with the blanket support of Bolt.

I was trying to make a nuanced statement, but that doesn't always work out well on the internet.
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Looks lets move on now, what needs to be said has been said. You are one of my favorite Nadal fans here, something I know you are aware of, since we have had great discussions in the past, so lets gets back to just talking tennis.
 
125downthemiddle said:
Most dominant overall could be argued, but the way the debate there was phrased showed it was most dominant at a specific venue (i.e. Bolt at Olympics vs Rafa at FO).

In that case, it's Rafa at FO. It's just way less likely for even a dominant tennis player to win B05 clay matches like that to that rate of 93-2 and especially 12 wins in 15 appearances. Nadal stands above his peers in terms of record at a particular grand slam (and surface) more than any other athlete, including Bolt or Phelps etc. Pretty sure that's why he won and it's justified.
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I think it's a weird poll because Bolt has a perfect record but in only 3 Olympic Games, whereas Nadal has participated in 15 RG's. How are we meant to compare them? Weird.
 
junior74 said:
To be at your best for those 10-20 seconds year in year out is like if tennis was just one set. I have the utmost respect for Rafa's career and his RG results are sick, but Bolt's record is without a flaw. And while tennis has a lot more variables, you still can't beat a perfect record - so Bolt is more dominating.

Which achievement is more "impressive" - is a different discussion.
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Right, but as I said I don't really care for Olympics athletics disciplines - sprint, swimming, hurdling etc. it doesn't inspire me. Well, except for Michelle Jenneke but that's for different reasons.

So if you give me a suitable alternative (which Rafa definitely is, he's a freakin video game boss on clay) I'll vote for tennis in a heartbeat.

Nadal's sheer artistry on clay >>>>> some dude running really, really fast.
 
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octogon said:
Bolt's sport is Athletics. It's a multi-discipline sport.

Bolt "only" dominated one aspect of athletics (short sprints). It's not like he's Carl Lewis, who dominated sprinting and the long jump as well. So it's a nonsense argument to use against Nadal. Bolt and Nadal are similarly dominant in specific areas of their sport.
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Fair point. The obvious difference between these two however is that the variety within athletics is quite a bit larger than the variety in tennis from one surface to the other, not to mention that you have world class specialists within each discipline of athletics that spend all of their hard work on maximizing their ability within that discipline ONLY.

Throwing a javelin as far as possible requires completely different physical mechanics vs sprinting vs long jumping vs high jumping vs shot put vs long distance running etc., and the respective physiques required to perform these different disciplines at the highest level are all very different from each other. Expecting Bolt to dominate all of these at the same time is ludicrous(not saying you do). It would be like expecting one tennis player to be the best in the world at every single shot/skill that exists within tennis.

Fastest
Strongest
Most stamina
Best offensive mover
Best defensive mover
Best server
Best forehand
Best backhand
Best backhand slice
Best volleys
Best overheads
Best dropshots
Etc

Now that would be some player!
 
ADuck said:
I think it's a weird poll because Bolt has a perfect record but in only 3 Olympic Games, whereas Nadal has participated in 15 RG's. How are we meant to compare them? Weird.
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Maybe because there is some upcoming tournament they try to hype? Get some attention on that? Doesn’t ESPN show USO? I don’t know.
 
zagor said:
Right, but as I said I don't really care for Olympics athletics disciplines - sprint, swimming, hurdling etc. it doesn't inspire me. Well, except for Michelle Jenneke but that's for different reasons.

So if you give me a suitable alternative (which Rafa definitely is, he's a freakin video game boss on clay) I'll vote for tennis in a heartbeat.

Nadal's sheer artistry on clay -----> some dude running really, really fast.
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When I watched Diamond league or what’s it’s called, 100 meters isn’t the last run anymore, but 400 meter. When I watched on TV I think they said because of doping and many other reasons 100 meters isn’t as popular as it is anymore.
 
zagor said:
Right, but as I said I don't really care for Olympics athletics disciplines - sprint, swimming, hurdling etc. it doesn't inspire me. Well, except for Michelle Jenneke but that's for different reasons.

So if you give me a suitable alternative (which Rafa definitely is, he's a freakin video game boss on clay) I'll vote for tennis in a heartbeat.

Nadal's sheer artistry on clay >>>>> some dude running really, really fast.
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Yeah, doing and watching sports where the main thing is doing something from A to B faster/longer/higher/etc. is pretty boring.
 
The thread title made me think it was about the sport as a whole but after clicking the link I realize it was about one specific venue. Still very impressive. The current lead over Bolt really shouldn’t be as massive as it is, though.
 
Third Serve said:
The thread title made me think it was about the sport as a whole but after clicking the link I realize it was about one specific venue. Still very impressive. The current lead over Bolt really shouldn’t be as massive as it is, though.
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Americans aren't that dumb. The vote for the sport as a whole would go to Federer.This is an accurate poll imo as the others before it have been. So much for polls being popularity contests now.
 
I'm pretty sure I saw him mentioned here before. The Greco-Roman wrestler, Aleksandr Karelin. His record does blow my mind more than most other records.. I can't believe it. He even beat Akira Maeda in an mma fight. 887 wins 2 defeats. My goodness.
 
PeoplesChamp said:
Americans aren't that dumb. The vote for the sport as a whole would go to Federer.This is an accurate poll imo as the others before it have been. So much for polls being popularity contests now.
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Well we there was debate a week or two ago on a thread about the most popular tennis players, and I argued that Nadal is currently the most popular tennis player in the world (and has been for many years) due to him having the biggest social media following.

So maybe it is a popularity contest.LOL! Either way, it's still damned impressive for Nadal to beat athletes and teams from so many different sports. It feels way bigger than any tennis specific poll.
 
PeoplesChamp said:
Americans aren't that dumb. The vote for the sport as a whole would go to Federer.This is an accurate poll imo as the others before it have been. So much for polls being popularity contests now.
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Isn’t this ESPN Europe and not USA this voting was for? It’s the U.K. Europe addition and European voters. Federer is biggest of the male players in USA, not the same situation in Europe.
 
Poisoned Slice said:
I'm pretty sure I saw him mentioned here before. The Greco-Roman wrestler, Aleksandr Karelin. His record does blow my mind more than most other records.. I can't believe it. He even beat Akira Maeda in an mma fight. 887 wins 2 defeats. My goodness.
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yea, i've mentioned him, russian king kong (nickname) or russian bear, but his record's related to 20th century
 
octogon said:
Well we there was debate a week or two ago on a thread about the most popular tennis players, and I argued that Nadal is currently the most popular tennis player in the world (and has been for many years) due to him having the biggest social media following.

So maybe it is a popularity contest.LOL! Either way, it's still damned impressive for Nadal to beat athletes and teams from so many different sports. It feels way bigger than any tennis specific poll.
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I agree with the poll. Nadal at RG all day long. The social media thing though doesn't mean much since Federer joined after Nadal.
 
PeoplesChamp said:
I agree with the poll. Nadal at RG all day long. The social media thing though doesn't mean much since Federer joined after Nadal.
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Bolt beat Federer in this thing, Rafa beating Bolt?
:eek::unsure: Hm.....

I didn’t see before your link that it was a bracket thing. I thought from the beginning it was only about Rafa and Bolt
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Bolt beat Federer in this thing, Rafa beating Bolt?
:eek::unsure: Hm.....

I didn’t see before your link that it was a bracket thing. I thought from the beginning it was only about Rafa and Bolt
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Didn't you read my original post?

Rafa beat the LA Lakers (Kobe and Shaquille O'Neal era), Floyd Mayweather Jr and Michael Phelps throughout his bracket.

Hugely impressive and shows how much Rafa is respected by casual sporting fans.
 
octogon said:
Didn't you read my original post?

Rafa beat the LA Lakers (Kobe and Shaquille O'Neal era), Floyd Mayweather Jr and Michael Phelps throughout his bracket.

Hugely impressive and shows how much Rafa is respected by casual sporting fans.
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If it’s too long texts I tend to just barely read through :X3:
Bolt is already retired and he and Rafa same age. Rafa still dominating!

Yeah this bracket thing puts the sceptical salty posters here to shame lol
To be dominant on clay slam is absolutely “a thing”.
When it comes to HC it is unclear who that will be in tennis. Only clear dominance in tennis is Rafa playing RG. Since none of the players are having well rounded all slam counts, no one can be considered dominant of it all.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
If it’s too long texts I tend to just barely read through :X3:
Bolt is already retired and he and Rafa same age. Rafa still dominating!

Yeah this bracket thing puts the sceptical salty posters here to shame lol
To be dominant on clay slam is absolutely “a thing”.
When it comes to HC it is unclear who that will be in tennis. Only clear dominance in tennis is Rafa playing RG. Since none of the players are having well rounded all slam counts, no one can be considered dominant of it all.
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People (mainly rival fans of other GOAT contenders.LOL!) underplay how big of advantage Rafa's domimance of clay and RG is in how the world will eventually perceive who is the tennis GOAT.

Rafa, Novak and Roger may end up winning a similar amount of slams, so to the casual sports fans, the most impressive thing any of them will have done is Rafa dominating the French.

The slam record isn't actually as impressive as Rafa's domination of RG
 
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octogon said:
People (mainly rival fans of other GOAT contest.LOL!) underplay how big of advantage Rafa's domimance of clay and RG is in how the world will eventually perceive who is the tennis GOAT.

Rafa, Novak and Roger may end up winning a similar amount of slams, so to the casual sports fans, the most impressive thing any of them will have done is Rafa dominating the French.

The slam record isn't actually as impressive as Rafa's domination of RG
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In this forum on the other hand it’s seen as something negative by the other fanbases to have complete dominance on a surface :laughing:

This is the fanboy/girl part of this forum, GPPD, let’s not forget that. Just a tiny part of the tennis community.
Very interesting this ESPN bracket thing. Unexpected and very cool.
 
what a fraudulent list. nadal has lost multiple times at the FO.

how about Mayweather at boxing? 50-0 never tasting defeat? that seems like a safer bet to me.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
When I watched Diamond league or what’s it’s called, 100 meters isn’t the last run anymore, but 400 meter. When I watched on TV I think they said because of doping and many other reasons 100 meters isn’t as popular as it is anymore.
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100 meters has always been the most prestigious and delicious moment in athletics, the pinnacle, whenever really momentous tournaments take place and will be for many years i hope, eveyone's eyeline on it, unlike other minor events like 800m. 1500..pole valut, decathlon, javelin, etc. ..sucn an insignificant stuff, 200m is also not so far from 100m in that regard, ..diamond league is a bad yardstick to meter what it is
 
alexio88 said:
100 meters has always been the most prestigious and delicious moment in athletics whenever really momentous tournaments take place and will be for many years i hope, eveyone's eyeline on it, unlike other minor events like 800m. 1500..pole valut, decathlon, javelin, etc. ..sucn an insignificant stuff, 200m is also not so far from 100m in that regard, ..diamond league is a bad yardstick to judge what it is
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That’s what I thought as well until recently.
So many scandals in 100 meters, many thinks everyone is doped.
 
As long as we're talking most dominant player in professional sports, I'd like to nominate Esther Vergeer for wheelchair women's tennis. She won 21 Slam titles (no losses in finals), 14 straight Wheelchair Tennis Masters (basically the WTF), and started a win streak in 2003 that lasted until her retirement in 2013. In other words, she had a 470 match win streak. If that doesn't scream dominant, then I'm not sure what does.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
I don’t think everyone agrees w you on that.
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i can reveal a secret that many more 're doped than it's declared officially, but this is a risky subject and don't be surprised if it's gonna be deleted very fast, 've already tried say about it recently, but then it got deleted:D
 
octogon said:
Based on his dominance of the French Open, Nadal is about to be crowned the most dominant athlete of the 21st century by voters on ESPN.

In the rounds,Nadal defeated Kobe Bryant's LA Lakers, undeafeated boxing legend Floyd Mayweather Jr and dominant Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps.

The final is between Nadal and sprinting GOAT Usain Bolt. While voting is not yet closed, Nadal's lead against Bolt (nearly 70% of the vote so far) looks to be insurmountable, so he'll offically be declared by ESPN to be the most dominant athlete or sporting team of the 21st century tomorrow.

www.espn.co.uk

Fan vote: Rafael Nadal at French Open beats Usain Bolt at Olympics in final

In the final, our readers chose Rafael Nadal at Roland Garros over Usain Bolt at the Olympics.
www.espn.co.uk www.espn.co.uk
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The answer is Phelps by far. He is a legend in his best stroke(butterfly) and dominated the individual medley and relay events. The only person who challenged him was Le Clos, who he destroyed in 2016. The Greatest Olympian Ever. No question at all about that.

By the way, the title is really misleading. It should be: "Most dominant at a single event". Not the most dominant athlete period. That honor would probably go to Phelps or Bolt. In tennis it would go to Federer or Djokovic.

In terms of just a single event, Nadal at RG would still lose to Bolt or Phelps at the Olympics. Maybe even Simone Biles.
 
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