ESPN voters choose Nadal as most dominant athlete (individual or team) of the 21st century

octogon said:
Can't see how or why this would change.

I wonder though, if no player emerges who racks up slams like the Big 3 after they retire, the main tennis bodies might do something desperate to keep interest high in the sport....like create a Fifth Slam. The arguments that would create, and the way the record books would get artificially ripped up would be crazy.LOL!
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ATP will adjust. If people dont rack up slams, it will look bad when the best player on tour has like 2 or 3 slams. Slams will take a back seat at some point. But it wont change for the big 3 convo.
 
King No1e said:
Well by that standard, Nadal doesn't really have a well-known stat like that either. The talk about his clay dominance (in my experience at least) seems confined to hardcore fans (often to discredit him and call him one-dimensional).
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If Nadal is only mocked as being one-dimensional about his prowess at the FO, why would the French Tennis Federation deem it such an amazing achievement that they have decided to put a statue of him at the venue? This decision would not have been taken lightly, with Nadal being Spanish, given the nationalistic nature of the French.

As far as I know, this is the first time, ever, that a foreign sportsman has been honoured in this way.
 
Lleytonstation said:
ATP will adjust. If people dont rack up slams, it will look bad when the best player on tour has like 2 or 3 slams. Slams will take a back seat at some point. But it wont change for the big 3 convo.
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Exactly why the GOAT debate is a moveable feast. The structure of the game is changing all the time. Rankings only started in 1973. From what I remember, in the 70s/80s an 90s players just did their own thing they weren’t really competing to be the greatest because computer analyses were not available; no one was keeping such detailed statistics so there was no talk of GOAT.

All of the Big 3 would have retired by now If they weren’t in the GOAT race whether they admit it or not. Murray would have happily retired after his hip surgery, but he thinks he has unfinished business to rack up his resumé to hold on to being the 4th best player of all time. Djokovic would have gone off preaching whatever with Pepe Imaz, Federer wouldn’t still be playing approaching 40 and travelling with his children and their tutors, and Rafa wouldn’t be returning time and time again after injury after injury.
 
octogon said:
They "greats" chop and change their GOAT opinions every 5 minutes, depending on which way the wind is blowing. It's hard to take the likes John McEnroe or Mats Wilander all that seriously after their umpteenth switcheroo.

Also, the fact that so many "greats" still choose Federer as GOAT when asked (and probably won't budge till the slam record is out of his hands), suggest they can ignore or disregard H2H whenever it suits them. If H2H factored that strongly with the "greats", Fed would not even still be in the GOAT conversation with them
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I agree. It is also ludicrous for GOATness to be decided on the musings of commentators.
 
octogon said:
Can't see how or why this would change.

I wonder though, if no player emerges who racks up slams like the Big 3 after they retire, the main tennis bodies might do something desperate to keep interest high in the sport....like create a Fifth Slam. The arguments that would create, and the way the record books would get artificially ripped up would be crazy.LOL!
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Only western countries have slams. Maybe Canada can be the 5th or maybe China since they've become economically powerful, they could ask for the 5th slam to be there.
 
a10best said:
Only western countries have slams. Maybe Canada can be the 5th or maybe China since they've become economically powerful, they could ask for the 5th slam to be there.
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China was my first thought too, but there is a lot of risk with that. Western countries are these days now unlikely to be at serious odds with each other as they share so many economic interests and goals. So it's unlikely, that the UK will ever boycott USA or Australia (for example).

With China, it's different. They are trying to become the world's dominant superpower. They do not have shared economic interests and goals with western countries. Right now the UK and America are trying to ban Chinese internet and telecommunications companies because they are suspected of being used to hoard data for spying purposes.

Holding a Grand Slam in China would probably be like having one in Russia during the cold war. Because there is so much potential friction with China and the west (Coronavirus doesn't help either), it's easy to see a Chinese Grand Slam one day being subject to a political boycott.

It sounds like a good idea initially because China has so much money and influence right now, but it could easily end up as a mess and a political hot potato.
 
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octogon said:
Incredible for Nadal, especially as it involved athletes and teams from every sport. Reconfirms that his French Open dominance is the most impressive achievment in tennis by a long distance and transcends the sport of tennis itself. It also probably confirms that the world will not have much problem seeing Nadal as the GOAT of tennis, once he has the slam record.

But I've always thought Nadal transcended tennis in a way Djokovic and Federer don't quite. I feel he has a stronger case to be the greatest athlete ever than them. And ironically, it's based on that insane, untouchable dominance of the French Open, which some tennis fans bizarrely try to use as a negative against him.
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Errrrr...........................No
 
octogon said:
China was my first thought too, but there is a lot of risk with that. Western countries are these days now unlikely to be at serious odds with each other as they share so many economic interests and goals. So it's unlikely, that the UK will ever boycott USA or Australia (for example).

With China, it's different. They are trying to become the world's dominant superpower. They do not have shared economic interests and goals with western countries. Right now the UK and America are trying to ban Chinese internet and telecommunications companies because they are suspected of being used to hoard data for spying purposes.

Holding a Grand Slam in China would probably be like having one in Russia during the cold war. Because there is so much potential friction with China and the west (Coronavirus doesn't help either), it's easy to see a Chinese Grand Slam one day being subject to a political boycott.

It sounds like a good idea initially because China has so much money and influence right now, but it could easily end up as a mess and a political hot potato.
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Huh? China already hosts a mens Masters and major WTA event. The NBA is already playing games there too.

I'd say a 5th slam is likely once Nadal, Fed, and Djokovic are done with their careers.
 
a10best said:
Huh? China already hosts a mens Masters and major WTA event. The NBA is already playing games there too.

I'd say a 5th slam is likely once Nadal, Fed, and Djokovic are done with their careers.
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A masters is not a slam. Neither is a WTA end of year tournament. Those can be held anywhere.

A slam basically becomes identified with the country it is held in, and has to do so permanently. You cannot move Wimbledon to Italy one year if the political climate is uncomfortable. Wimbledon is a British event and has to be held there, or not at all.

It really isn't the same thing. Of course you can have major events in China. But a slam is not something you can easily move or change around if politics gets in the way, without huge ramifications. If a cold war develops between USA and China, the ATP will be left in an incredibly uncomfortable position in terms of potential boycotts of a slam.
 
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octogon said:
A masters is not a slam. Neither is a WTA end of year tournament. Those can be held anywhere.
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??
Miami Masters and Indian Wells could be 5th slams because of the size of the stadiums and crowd sizes. Simply build another stadium and it is slam like & China builds things quickly. For us to get things done sometimes is like an ant trying to climb up a sequoia.
However, the US will should not get two slams before another world power. Germany should be next on the list. I don't like many things the Chinese govt. is doing but business and trade will continue even if there's a cold war, but at a much lighter pace.

A 5th slams works against the GOATS because they can literally be caught & passed in 5 years if there's a phenom after them who dominates.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Lol what an asinine post. Really goes to show how much mental gymnastics people have done over time to convince themselves clay is any less important than any other surface.
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All because Federer failed to win more than one, which was only possible because he did not face Nadal in the 2009 final.

Funny how the usual suspects never downgrade Borg's six French Open titles under the criteria used against Nadal ("clay is not a good a surface / major as the others..."). They accept that as having the same value as his other majors and part of his historic legacy. No need to wonder why. Mental gymnastics, indeed.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
All because Federer failed to win more than one, which was only possible because he did not face Nadal in the 2009 final.

Funny how the usual suspects never downgrade Borg's six French Open titles under the criteria used against Nadal ("clay is not a good a surface / major as the others..."). They accept that as having the same value as his other majors and part of his historic legacy. No need to wonder why. Mental gymnastics, indeed.
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True.
 
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It's even more amazing when you remember that he was injured every single year at the French Open.

Imagine how good he could have been if he played at 100%.
 
octogon said:
As this thread has covered, in the real world, Nadal's achievements and dominance are considered far more legendary and impressive to casual sports fans.

Novak just hasn't captured that casual imagination.
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Bold of you to speak for casual sports fans as a whole.
 
Dominant + Team = Ridiculous. How can they pick a dominant player in a team sport???

In general, this term is nonsense.
 
Bartelby said:
Nadal news 2.0 mobilised their army of devotees, that's all.
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LOL!

Most Nadal fans (including myself) on here didn't even know this poll was taking place till it was basically over.

This was just a legit casual sports fan poll. Where he can beat Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps with ease. That's how they see Nadal's achievements at Roland Garros as the most impressive feat of sporting dominance this century. Possibly in history. The actual slam record itself pales in comparison to dominating Roland Garros, year in, year out for as long as Nadal.

It's just funny that the thing fans of other players use to try and delegitimise Nadal's achievements (too much clay) is what is making him a bigger sporting legend than his rivals to casual sports fans. I love irony.
 
This thread really deserves a bump after today:

Now 13 French Open titles. Arguably the greatest sporting achievement in history at this point. ESPN voters are not stupid and fully understood the magnitude of what Nadal has been doing at RG.

Bravo Nadal!
 
WOW..... I didn't know this poll happened :eek:

This win in the poll means a lot.

Greatest athlete in tennis should automatically mean GOAT in some ways, any sports is about athleticism and whoever is 1 in it is supreme.

Maybe skillwise he lags to Federer and Novak @NonP
 
It is a well known fact since 2 decades that if Nadal was as skilled as Fed/Novak then he would be better than them.
He has more speed and more power at his peak than anyone in history.
A superior athlete is yet to be born or yet to make his debut, among all the pros till now it is Nadal in terms of raw athleticism.
 
In conditions which favor him Nadal has maximized his performance there in a way no one can, this is the simple indicator that he as an athlete is ranked 1.

Federer is physically the weakest of the 3 but has a suble game due to he being extremely skilled which enabled him to play this long.

Novak is stronger than Fed with more endurance but weaker than Nadal, he has been less skilled than Fed but compensates that with some grit that he developed in Serbia due to his tough upbringing under Srdjan the warlord.

Had Federer been Serbian born in the household of Srdjan then he could have been on 30 slams.
 
Bartelby said:
They are merely over-weighting the French success.
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I said it some days back itself that Nadal's success at the French is greater than any CYGS.
This actually is stretched over 3 generations of athletes in their peaks, that is a massive level of dominance which stands out in terms of athleticism because no one can be so dominant on skill alone, someone with greater power among the youth or older is always there for everyone.
So Nadal standing out means it has to be overweighted.

241535318_2643714499108364_2249486966005899069_n.jpg
 
This thread is pretty funny tbh, even many of the ‘classy’ Djoker fans on here couldn’t bear to just have a thread about Nadal’s clay achievements where we don’t talk about balanced resumé, weeks at No. 1, etc… so of course things had to get messy
 
jl809 said:
This thread is pretty funny tbh, even many of the ‘classy’ Djoker fans on here couldn’t bear to just have a thread about Nadal’s clay achievements where we don’t talk about balanced resumé, weeks at No. 1, etc… so of course things had to get messy
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Even with Djokovic holding the records, they are the most bitter fanbase lol
 
octogon said:
This thread really deserves a bump after today:

Now 13 French Open titles. Arguably the greatest sporting achievement in history at this point. ESPN voters are not stupid and fully understood the magnitude of what Nadal has been doing at RG.

Bravo Nadal!
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This poster certainly disappeared in a hurry after Djokovic took over.
 
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