Essential tennis some new set video

FiReFTW

Legend

These two sure like to play against each other, god damn that ian dude is as fast as a panther around the court.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
My reason is that I have watched a lot of 5.0 level matches and these guys don’t look as good as the 5.0 Matches I have witnessed, especially indoors where it is much easier to look good.

There is a difference between watching a match on video and watching it live. There's also a difference between watching it live and playing.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you'd at least have to watch the ET guys live as I'm sure the ball will appear to be moving a lot faster than on video.

I've played a half dozen 5.0s and done clinics with a bunch of others and from my perspective, the 5.0 rating seems justified.

They don't show up in the UTR database so I have no #s to compare to, only my subjective view.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
There is a difference between watching a match on video and watching it live. There's also a difference between watching it live and playing.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you'd at least have to watch the ET guys live as I'm sure the ball will appear to be moving a lot faster than on video.

I've played a half dozen 5.0s and done clinics with a bunch of others and from my perspective, the 5.0 rating seems justified.

They don't show up in the UTR database so I have no #s to compare to, only my subjective view.

Well that’s fine but these guys look like 4.5 level to me.
 

VacationTennis

Semi-Pro
You don't have to have blistering pro strokes to be a 5.0, in comparison to 4.5. You just have to be really good at winning points and matches. Ian looks like he knows his way around the court and knows how to play matches.

Whatever the level the video was only 1 set that's my biggest thing to all you players watching - can't win the match by winning the first set it's just getting started.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Well that’s fine but these guys look like 4.5 level to me.

Kevin is typical of the 5.0s in my clinic: heavy TS on both wings [he does slice more in this set than the typical 5.0, in my limited experience].

Ian builds his game around defending his BH [not easy to attack those slices] and waiting for a short ball to attack or a FH to smash, combined with some very good movement.

Kevin would probably hit me off the court while Ian would defend and I'd hit myself off the court.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Kevin is typical of the 5.0s in my clinic: heavy TS on both wings [he does slice more in this set than the typical 5.0, in my limited experience].

Ian builds his game around defending his BH [not easy to attack those slices] and waiting for a short ball to attack or a FH to smash, combined with some very good movement.

Kevin would probably hit me off the court while Ian would defend and I'd hit myself off the court.

Hard to hit heavy topspin on both sides when you slice the backhand most of the time. I’ve never seen 5.0 players slice this often and I wouldn’t even consider their forehands as being consistent heavy topspin. They are good players no doubt and it would be better to watch them live to make an accurate assessment.
 
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S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Hard to hit heavy topspin on both sides when you slice the backhand most of the time.

Kevin hits heavy TS on his BH. Ian is the one slicing the majority of his BHs and yes, he's not hitting TS.

I’ve never seen 5.0 players slice this often

So that means if one slices this much one can't be a 5.0?

The fact that you haven't seen 5.0s slice this often means you just haven't seen the full range of 5.0s playing, not that the use of slice invalidates their 5.0 abilities.

Stevie Johnson, Ivo Karlovic, Steve Darcis, Roberta Vinci, Feliciano Lopez do an awful lot of BH slicing. Even that Federer guy.

Clearly, slicing does not prevent them from achieving great things; the total game has to be considered.

and I wouldn’t even consider their forehands as heavy topspin.

So Kevin's FHs all throughout the video are average or below average TS? We'll agree to disagree.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Kevin hits heavy TS on his BH. Ian is the one slicing the majority of his BHs and yes, he's not hitting TS.



So that means if one slices this much one can't be a 5.0?

The fact that you haven't seen 5.0s slice this often means you just haven't seen the full range of 5.0s playing, not that the use of slice invalidates their 5.0 abilities.

Stevie Johnson, Ivo Karlovic, Steve Darcis, Roberta Vinci, Feliciano Lopez do an awful lot of BH slicing. Even that Federer guy.

Clearly, slicing does not prevent them from achieving great things; the total game has to be considered.



So Kevin's FHs all throughout the video are average or below average TS? We'll agree to disagree.

So only one of the 5.0 players hits heavy topspin on the forehand side? I never said that he hits average or below average that’s your statement. I said that they don’t hit heavy topspin that consistently.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
So only one of the 5.0 players hits heavy topspin on the forehand side? I never said that he hits average or below average that’s your statement. I said that they don’t hit heavy topspin that consistently.

You wrote "I wouldn’t even consider their forehands as heavy topspin.". How am I supposed to interpret that other than you think they hit average or less TS? You never used the word "consistently" in your original post. [Let's separate Ian and Kevin: Ian does not hit nearly as much TS as Kevin.]

I'd say when Kevin hits a TS FH, it's got more than average TS on it. In fact, it looks typical of the 5.0s that I know.
 

Badmrfrosty

Rookie
Question: Why does he step and open his forehand stance before he hits the ball almost every time?

Not a criticism just trying to learn.
 
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Goof

Professional
They look like they're playing about my level, which is low-level 4.5 (very good at #2 singles, sometimes blown off the court at #1 singles).
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
So only one of the 5.0 players hits heavy topspin on the forehand side? I never said that he hits average or below average that’s your statement. I said that they don’t hit heavy topspin that consistently.
You wrote "I wouldn’t even consider their forehands as heavy topspin.". How am I supposed to interpret that other than you think they hit average or less TS? You never used the word "consistently" in your original post. [Let's separate Ian and Kevin: Ian does not hit nearly as much TS as Kevin.]

I'd say when Kevin hits a TS FH, it's got more than average TS on it. In fact, it looks typical of the 5.0s that I know.

Ya he does hit a good topspin forehand.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Nice video. As your video shows, whether the Essential Tennis guys are 5.0 or not, the argument that someone who slices a lot cannot be a high level player, is without merit.

Who said that because someone slices a lot that they can’t be a high level player?
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Why dont u people who say whatever ntrp level at least use 3 layers of that level?

Like low 4.0, mid 4.0, high 4.0

Theres a huge span at one ntrp level that usually spans over 3utr levels, thats a hugeeeeee difference.
 

Goof

Professional
Why dont u people who say whatever ntrp level at least use 3 layers of that level?

Like low 4.0, mid 4.0, high 4.0

Theres a huge span at one ntrp level that usually spans over 3utr levels, thats a hugeeeeee difference.

I did. I am a low 4.5 and a match between me and these guys could probably go either way (I'd like my chances though). Most of the people I encounter at #1 singles though when I get stuck there would destroy these guys.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Regardless of level, shouldn't Kevin be able to hit passing shots against Ian ... or at least try? It's one of the things I haven't understood watching rec video here for 3 years now. It's like no one even tries anymore ... just hit low in the middle to opponent. That's not how we played singles tournaments ... s&v vs passing shot deuls. If you could not hit passing shots ... you could not win 4.5 because we had stronger s&v players than the level Ian is showing. From the baseline ... both Kevin and Ian would have been strong 4.5 contenders ... but we had too many s&v and c&c that would not have allowed it to be decided there. Kevin's strokes have the look of a player that could be good enough to control the match from the baseline when he is on/peak ... but that's only if he also has passing shots. My guess is he does ... he played ORU college tennis. Kevin ... put that on that matrix ... pass Ian's butt when he dares to get near the net. 8-B
 
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Kevin Garlington competed (and won) a few futures matches in the 2000s and has been coaching tennis ever since. I'd be shocked if he struggled to be competitive at USTA 4.5. I believe Essential Tennis even made a video a while back welcoming viewers to challenge them.
 

Goof

Professional
So the lo 4.5 is saying that they can go even against a guy who won a few future matches???? :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
Get reallllll

I take it back! I'm starting to think these guys might be better than 5.0 but took it easy and played what they thought was a 5.0 level for demonstration purposes for the video. :)
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
I take it back! I'm starting to think these guys might be better than 5.0 but took it easy and played what they thought was a 5.0 level for demonstration purposes for the video. :)
I hear you man. Once, i saw this older guy playing and i thought i can handle him easily. Soon enough, he handed me a double babel. He used to play for his country Davis Cup team. :eek::eek:
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
These guys are 5.0? Are they playing in second gear? Otherwise I’ve seen nothing to identify why they would comfortably beat a 4.5 or 4.0 player. Good footwork - yes. Good composure - yes. Safe hitting - yes. Is that all it takes?
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
These guys are 5.0? Are they playing in second gear? Otherwise I’ve seen nothing to identify why they would comfortably beat a 4.5 or 4.0 player. Good footwork - yes. Good composure - yes. Safe hitting - yes. Is that all it takes?
Yes.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I take it back! I'm starting to think these guys might be better than 5.0 but took it easy and played what they thought was a 5.0 level for demonstration purposes for the video. :)


There is a bit of truth in there from what I've seen. I think they did "fix" the match with particular strokes and rallies to support the matrix play. I think even the first match series had a bit of that for entertainment and teaching purposes. I think if they really had something on the line, you'd see a different set of players.
 
I think everyone tends to overestimate how good they would actually look on video...

I used to be rated 5.0, but due to age and a long list of health issues in the past two years I would not be able to compete at that level. Right now, as I'm getting back in shape and playing sets with some decent high school players, I feel I could step on court at 4.5 and be very competitive. Both of these guys would almost certainly grind me out pretty easily though. I'd hold serve a few times, and they would run me to hell and back. I have no problems believing they are rated 5.0.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
There is a bit of truth in there from what I've seen. I think they did "fix" the match with particular strokes and rallies to support the matrix play. I think even the first match series had a bit of that for entertainment and teaching purposes. I think if they really had something on the line, you'd see a different set of players.

We would see Kevin hitting a fh cc dipping passing shot?
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I think everyone tends to overestimate how good they would actually look on video...

I used to be rated 5.0, but due to age and a long list of health issues in the past two years I would not be able to compete at that level. Right now, as I'm getting back in shape and playing sets with some decent high school players, I feel I could step on court at 4.5 and be very competitive. Both of these guys would almost certainly grind me out pretty easily though. I'd hold serve a few times, and they would run me to hell and back. I have no problems believing they are rated 5.0.

You forgot that here on TTW everyone thinks they hit a 120mph serves and 90mph winners when they hit on court in 1st person.
 

BetaServe

Professional
Some people here don't seem to understand 2 things:
1. Shots in video appear much slower than in person
2. NTPR is not determined by powerful/beautiful/heavy strokes (they're not direct indicators). It is determined by one thing: the ability to win matches.
 
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