Essential tennis some new set video
- Thread starter FiReFTW
- Start date
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Very predictably, the Youtube comments are full of people calling them 4.5s or even 4.0s
This is the "video effect":
When Ian posted a highlights video earlier, I wasn't convinced he was a 5.0. But the video of their full match did. He'd be at the top range of 4.5 at worst.
This is the "video effect":
When Ian posted a highlights video earlier, I wasn't convinced he was a 5.0. But the video of their full match did. He'd be at the top range of 4.5 at worst.
FiReFTW
Legend
TTW members also say they are 4.0, don't you trust our fellow members? They hit 120mph serves and 90mph forehands with a 90% serve % and 30 rally consistency, they are pretty good and know what they talk about
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
They were 5.0 most likely. Video lessons and barely playing makes you drop off really fast. If they used to play ATP sure. They can pick up a racket without touching one for 10 years and be a 5.0. Only way to know is to play a 5.0 tournament. Against other 5.0 players currently rated at 5.0. They only pay against each other. And other non competitive playing coaches.
There is a grinder guy that's 4.5 on YouTube he plays current D1 athletes etc... he would clean Kevin and Ian's clock. I'll see if I can find his videos.
Here he is playing a 5.0 player.
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There is a grinder guy that's 4.5 on YouTube he plays current D1 athletes etc... he would clean Kevin and Ian's clock. I'll see if I can find his videos.
Here he is playing a 5.0 player.
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
MordredSJT
Rookie
I don't think either one of those guys would clean their clocks as you say. Using the eye test at a certain point is an unreliable measure of judgment. Tons of people used to ask me why I wasn't playing #1 singles when I was playing #2 in high school. I was 6'2" tall with a huge serve, huge forehand, and hit the living **** out of every ball with heavy spin. Our #1 player was 5'8" tall, hit relatively flat and medium paced balls, and had a pretty decent working slice serve that he used to start points. He was also one of the smartest players I've ever played, and a good mover. I never took a set off of him in high school, lots of tie-breaks and 5-7 sets, but could never get past him until after my first season of college tennis. Looks can be very deceiving.
CiscoPC600
Hall of Fame
Probably because over time your wins over higher UTRs faded and more recent matches against lower players got more weight?
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
BetaServe
Professional
Forgot to add "...unless you're 5.0+"
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
USTA read his ttw posts and applied penalty to his rating.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
I'm not talking about eye test. The video I posted are of players competing and playing competitively all the time. In real tournaments and matches. Kevin and Ian make videos.
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tlm
G.O.A.T.
No kidding they are pro players. That doesn’t change the fact that their backhand is a weakness that holds them back from being able to beat the top players. If you knew anything about tennis you would understand this.
BetaServe
Professional
You don't look unatheltic
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Look at the purpose of that video...
Great news – you DON'T have to wait until you reach 5.0 level to begin thinking, strategizing and adapting like a 5.0 level player. We developed a groundbreaking strategy tool to help you not only analyze and exploit your opponent's weaknesses, but also adapt to any changes they make on the fly. Here's how Ian and Kevin used it in a recent match...
I like watching their matches, but I also recognize they're selling snake oil.
Great news – you DON'T have to wait until you reach 5.0 level to begin thinking, strategizing and adapting like a 5.0 level player. We developed a groundbreaking strategy tool to help you not only analyze and exploit your opponent's weaknesses, but also adapt to any changes they make on the fly. Here's how Ian and Kevin used it in a recent match...
I like watching their matches, but I also recognize they're selling snake oil.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Green shirt guy is about as good a mover on clay as it gets in rec tennis ... and yet that guy’s offense blew right threw it. Impressive.
BetaServe
Professional
But you do look clumsy
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
FiReFTW
Legend
That kid is good but why does he look very old for some reason? He looks like 35-45 lol, I don't get why tho..
Btw that green shirt guy is quite fast and seems like he has consistent strokes, but it boggles my mind why he never flattens out his shots, even when going for more aggressive shots he has SO MUCH loop and net clearance unnecessarily, I really don't get it.
The other guy flattens out his forehand always when he goes for aggressive shots, or at least doesn't have a HUGE loopy arc on them.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Yup. The adult is very good. Still got wrecked.
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ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
No. Wow. The dude is very interesting. And a great tennis player.
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rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
He is an adult. Looks like semi self taught. Based on his service motion. He can't hit it as hard as the kid. So he doesn't even try. His fast flatter shots would just get redirected even faster into the open court by the kid. Probably lose faster. Lol. Also the kid is hitting a ton of spin. Way more than the adult.
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ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
.
F
FRV
Guest
Oh good, some criticism. I was beginning to think you were in fact iRacer3.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I watched some of is doubles videos ... he can flatten out his FH when he wants to. I just can't get past a rec player moving that well on clay. I have been around a lot of fast players on hard court ... but his movement on clay is pretty special/awesome.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
It looks like he plays a ton. Is super fit. Grind fest. For another adult to play him would be a nightmare. I've watched a few of his other videos. He is an exceptional player.
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rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
If you hit a slice in mens tennis you have like a 66% chance of losing the point on the pro tour (saw this stat on either Craig Oshan. or Gill Gross, to me it's a very believable stat) . Feliciano, Johnson, Karlovic all hit mostly slice and they only get away with it because all 3 have tremendous serves. They aren't winning because of their slice. Imo the higher you go the bigger the penalty for a slice, unless you are Fed and even I think he probably loses a large portion of points if he slices.
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tlm
G.O.A.T.
Exactly they have bomb serves or they would be nowhere near as good as they are. Ya they slice their backhands and are pro players so according to FiReFTW that proves a slice is great. Lol in reality that slice backhand really holds them back. But I’m not saying a rec player cannot be successful with a backhand slice because if a player is good at slicing it can be very effective in rec tennis.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Now the guy with the black shirt definitely looks like a 5.0 level player he hits the ball harder and faster outdoors on clay than the other 2 supposed 5.0 players could hit indoors on hard court.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
MordredSJT
Rookie
I played doubles against a guy in college that went pro and played doubles fairly successfully (won 18 atp doubles titles). Not the same obviously, but I've also hit with some higher ranked females. I practiced with Sabine Lisicki once. Her serve is fast.
The guy in the black shirt in the clay match is far above 5.0, he's blasting winners left and right against one of the fastest rec players I've seen, the other guy moves incredibly well and winners are going by him left and right. Also usta league 5.0 (I've seen a number of former ncaa d1 all americans and former atp pros at league 5.0) is far better than usta tournament 5.0 as people play "down" in leagues and play "up" in tournaments so even the 5.0 rating varies if applied to league or tournament.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
No it’s not, but the 5.0 guys I’ve watched have big serves and can blast sitters away like the guy in the black shirt does.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
He may be a strong 5.0 but I wouldn’t say far above. Look the other guy has great speed and court coverage but that only enables him to stay in the point a little longer. I don’t care how fast he is he keeps floating back easy sitters that his opponent can unload on. Plus the fast guys serve is not even close to 5.0 level, any 5.0 player I’ve watched has a big first serve. So that’s another reason he can’t hang with his opponent, regardless of how fast he is.
That doesn't mean anything..no disrespect. I can say I've seen higher level players not hit that hard, and that's a true statement too.
I'm not saying the Essential Tennis guys are 5.0 folks. At the end of the day you have to play tournaments to claim that ranking. Everything else is subjective. However, both of them serve and move pretty well, and if they did consistently play tournaments, which I'm not sure they do anymore, they'd be legit 5.0 contenders.
As for hitting hard and fast. many have posted videos of Brian Su here over the years. If he didn't play tournaments, people wouldn't believe he was a 5.0.
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Wise one
Hall of Fame
Nah, he's a 5.0.
MordredSJT
Rookie
It's almost like hitting the ball consistently deep and with purpose can beat someone who hits harder and spinnier...hmmmm...
As @mad dog1 would attest, there were people who argued that Brian was not a high 5.0 player, even though they knew he was winning those tournaments. The preconceived bias they had that 5.0s should be hitting blistering winners and serves caused their minds to not accept what was actually happening.
Again, I'm not saying the Essential Tennis guys are 5.0s. However, they have experience at that level, they still serve and move well, and construct points well. It's not far fetched that if they played tournaments regularly worst case they'd be high 4.5s now.
Wise one
Hall of Fame
It's determined by who takes the balls to the tournament desk.
No, it's not! It's based on skills and performance!
Rating Number
Description
1.0
Just starting tennis. Essentially, someone stepping on the court for their first lesson.
1.5
A player with limited experience. This player is working on basic stroke production trying to keep a ball in play.
2.0
This player knows how to hit all of the strokes, but lacks court experience. They are familiar with the basic court positions for singles and doubles.
2.5
This player is learning to judge where the ball is going although court coverage is weak.They can sustain a short rally of slow pace. Beginner: This is the lowest rating level for which the USTA offers League play.
3.0
This player is consistent when hitting medium paced shots, but they are not comfortable with all strokes. This player's shots lack directional control and power.
3.5
This player has achieved dependable stroke production with directional control on moderate paced shots. They still lack depth and variety. This player is starting to show team work in doubles. This ranking is considered intermediate level.
4.0
This player has very dependable strokes including directional and depth control on both the forehand and backhand sides. This player can use ground strokes, volleys, lobs, overheads, and approach shots with success. This player occasionally forces errors. Rallies are often lost due to impatience. This player shows strong teamwork in doubles. High Intermediate. This is the bell curve in USTA league tennis.
4.5
In addition to directional and depth control, this player has begun to master the use of varying spin and power. This player can handle considerable pace and shows sound footwork. They can vary their game plan according to opponents. They can vary their serve and have placement of their second serve. This player tends to over hit on difficult shots. In addition to sound doubles team work, this player often shows aggressive net play. This is the beginning of the advanced ratings.
5.0
This player shows shot anticipation and often has an outstanding shot or attribute around which their game may be structured. This player can regularly force errors and hit winners from short balls. In addition to power and placement, this player can spin and place second serves.
5.5
This player has developed power and consistency as a major weapon. This player can vary strategies and styles of play in competitive situations and hits dependable shots when under pressure or stress.
6.0, 6.5, & 7.0
These players have intensive training for National programs or the Pro tour. They have National or Sectional ratings. Some have International rankings. In short, professionals.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
So having a big serve and being able to blast away the weaker replies doesn’t mean anything? Okay whatever you want to believe go with it. I’m well aware that there are some 5.0 guys that don’t hit that big of shots, there are always exceptions. But the majority have big first serves and monster forehands
and regardless of what you say it definitely means something.
C
Chadalina
Guest
They changed the ratings when the pro's stopped rating them. Now its self rated and based on match play. On the old chart i was a 6.0. Both of these guys can win matches at 5.0.
Thats why the slice still works at 5.0. The low slice sets up their big fh since the opponent has to apply some loop.
You can ask @stringertom, i have a friend named Gabriel, he does as well. The guy is 61 now (atp high 186), uses slice bh, slice fh return and flatter fhs. He plays number 1 in the doubles league and still winning matches.
