Essential Tennis tackles line calling etiquette

time_fly

Hall of Fame
Essential Tennis put up a short video in which Ian works with a younger player on his line calls. It made me realize that there is surprisingly little instructional content on this topic, given all of the instructional tennis YouTube videos out there. I think there is a lot more that could have been said. But what do you think of this video, and you do you agree with the points Ian makes?

 

tennis3

Hall of Fame
Line calling in rec tennis can be hilarious.

If you aren't assertive enough, guys get mad and try to roll over you saying "You must not be sure because you didn't sound confident enough"

If you sound overly confident, guys get mad too.

Basically, most guys who want to start issues will just be contrary no matter what you do.

As I've said before, I call the lines as I see them, but give my opponent any point they question. On the two balls that are out that Ian is using for demonstration, I'd them call both out. But if my opponent disagreed, I'd give them both of those points, even knowing full well the ball is out. Just makes life easier. I really hate to deal with "Are you sure?" guys. But, if they ask, I always tell them I'm sure of the out call I made, but I'll go with your call and call the ball in. Then I always say the score (to signal that the discussion is over and we are moving on to the next point).

99% of people I play just play my call without making any issue. Most people generally understand that you are trying your best, but you might make mistakes (or we might just see things differently). The 1% of people that "get off" on questioning line calls, I just give them the point. I know that engaging with them in any way is more disruptive (and ultimately worse) than just giving them a point they didn't earn.

Some people really do come to the court looking to argue about something in every match. Not many, but there are people like that out there. The few I've run into, I just let them have their way in everything and apologize for all of the things that I'm supposedly doing. I've never had a person continue with this stuff when it's clear I'm not going to engage them and argue with them in any way.
 
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buddhatennis

New User
I see lots of kids just using their finger to call a ball out. I try and tell them that is really only supposed to be used on obviously out balls, if you return a ball you should make a verbal call because the other player is watching the ball and not the opponent. the one issue I have with this video is I also tell players that you should never ask 'was that out?' A ball not called is technically in, I would always say, 'that was in, right?"
 

Creighton

Professional
Line calling in rec tennis can be hilarious.

If you aren't assertive enough, guys get mad and try to roll over you saying "You must not be sure because you didn't sound confident enough"

If you sound overly confident, guys get mad too.

Basically, most guys who want to start issues will just be contrary no matter what you do.

As I've said before, I call the lines as I see them, but give my opponent any point they question. On the two balls that are out that Ian is using for demonstration, I'd them call both out. But if my opponent disagreed, I'd give them both of those points, even knowing full well the ball is out. Just makes life easier. I really hate to deal with "Are you sure?" guys. But, if they ask, I always tell them I'm sure of the out call I made, but I'll go with your call and call the ball in. Then I always say the score (to signal that the discussion is over and we are moving on to the next point).

99% of people I play just play my call without making any issue. Most people generally understand that you are trying your best, but you might make mistakes (or we might just see things differently). The 1% of people that "get off" on questioning line calls, I just give them the point. I know that engaging with them in any way is more disruptive (and ultimately worse) than just giving them a point they didn't earn.

Some people really do come to the court looking to argue about something in every match. Not many, but there are people like that out there. The few I've run into, I just let them have their way in everything and apologize for all of the things that I'm supposedly doing. I've never had a person continue with this stuff when it's clear I'm not going to engage them and argue with them in any way.

You need Ian's advice more than anyone. You need to be assertive with line calls.

At first I typed up you're only hurting yourself and your team, but that's not true. You're hurting the rest of the league if you're allowing bullies to make you change your line calls. That only encourages them to act the same way to the rest of the players in the league.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Dunno. Think some guys are gonna be obnoxious to play against no matter how you're calling things. With balls that I am confident are out, I'm pretty deliberate with saying out or no and also signaling with finger. Anything that's close or I'm not sure about I will play out.

Video kinda reminds me of this one guy I played last summer on outdoor clay. He was kind of annoying to deal with. One point I got a ball to come in on, got lobbed and his ball goes at least a foot out of the court. I call it out, and he starts complaining that "the ball didn't even go that far." I'm thinking, buddy, you're all the way at the other friggin end of the court with the net blocking part of your view, it was out. Problem was, then it seemed like any ball I had close to any of the lines was getting called out. One on a sideline looked close to me he calls wide. Since we're on clay I ask if he can check for a mark or show me, because I thought it was very close. Refused to do it. Stuff close to the baseline he would return and then say "no no" in a manner like he was disagreeing with me or something.

At that point I'm kinda getting fed up with the match. I dunno if he's deliberately giving me **** calls or if my shots were actually out, but first set goes awfully for me and I had a hard time staying engaged in the match. Started turning things around in the 2nd set, but there was a serve of his that left a clear mark well behind the service line. Called it out, again he starts complaining saying his ball was in. I'm kinda pissed and told him to hold on while I went to circle the mark and said "right here." Kinda shut him up for a bit, ended up winning 2nd set.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
It is rec tennis and I always give the benefit of the doubt that a ball is in if I even have a smidgen of me that thinks it might be. Sure, watching back videos there are some calls I miss, just like everyone else, and those can be calling out balls in as well as in balls out. But the majority of the time it can be chalked up to simple mistakes over cheating. Then...then you have those certain teams or just players you absolutely know ANYTHING CLOSE is supposed to be called out with that 'loud and assertive' stuff everyone talks about. But it is OVERLY loud and OVERLY assertive, usually with the team on the side or partner in dubs verbally and also loudly and assertively saying 'good call'. Like that makes it true. Players and teams like that immediately get talked about and are very well known quickly for those antics. Plenty of ways to help mitigate it too.

And let's remember, lines ONLY matter during points and not during a serve according to ET.
 
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bigR

New User
And let's remember, lines ONLY matter during points and not during a serve according to ET.

Very true. Foot fault Uncle Fester and Ian himself were huge serve foot faulters on that channel so this is a funny topic for him to be tackling.

I didn’t watch the video but I think we need integrity foremost in our calls. Too much hooking pervades US tennis at every level and I don’t think we will produce any great champions that way.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Very true. Foot fault Uncle Fester and Ian himself were huge serve foot faulters on that channel so this is a funny topic for him to be tackling.

I didn’t watch the video but I think we need integrity foremost in our calls. Too much hooking pervades US tennis at every level and I don’t think we will produce any great champions that way.
If you aren't Hooking, you aren't winning.........................................That's How Winners Are Made! Win if you can, lose if you must........................but always, cheat, cheat, cheat.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
Well, that’s because it would amount to two lines:
  1. A ball is out only if 100% of the ball lands outside the lines of play
  2. 99% out = 100% in
End of instruction…

Well, okay, that's like saying "just keep hitting the ball in until the other guy misses" is all there is to tennis. :) All sorts of different dynamics come up with line calls. For example in a doubles match a month ago, my opponent hit an aggressive cross-court right near the sideline and I had to attempt a squash-shot pickup on the run. My partner, who of course was on the other side of the court but was just standing and watching, called it out and said he was certain. I said I couldn't call it because I was moving too much to be sure. Our opponents insisted that that the closer player to the ball has to make the call, and that if either partner was uncertain then it is in.
 

McLovin

Legend
Our opponents insisted that that the closer player to the ball has to make the call, and that if either partner was uncertain then it is in.
Your opponents need to read The Code, then. It clearly states that either player can make a call in doubles. Now, if you think it was good, then it’s good (positive “in” overrides positive “out” 100% of the time between doubles partners), but if you honestly did not see it, your partner’s call stands.

But IMO that is not “instructional content”. That is a rule book, and it’s incumbent upon the players to know the rules.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
But IMO that is not “instructional content”. That is a rule book, and it’s incumbent upon the players to know the rules.
Dunno, I think more players would benefit from some rules-oriented content with examples than the 437th video on YouTube telling them to use a continental grip when they serve.
 
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ChrisJR3264

Hall of Fame
If a ball is coming in hot and it’s close to the line that I can’t make a 100% confident call on it being out - I play it.
Balls that you are certain are out - call it ASAP. I always do. Easy rules that all should live by.
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
Essential Tennis put up a short video in which Ian works with a younger player on his line calls. It made me realize that there is surprisingly little instructional content on this topic, given all of the instructional tennis YouTube videos out there. I think there is a lot more that could have been said. But what do you think of this video, and you do you agree with the points Ian makes?

Controversial topic.

Line calls in a rec setting depends upon how competitive the other player is. I'm fairly easy going. If the opponent calls it out, I accept unless it is blatant. Sometimes I get it wrong too when the ball has speed and heavy topspin lands near the baseline. If the opponent insists, I will accept or give him two serves to replay. I just like a peaceful setting :).
 

ChrisJR3264

Hall of Fame
Controversial topic.

Line calls in a rec setting depends upon how competitive the other player is. I'm fairly easy going. If the opponent calls it out, I accept unless it is blatant. Sometimes I get it wrong too when the ball has speed and heavy topspin lands near the baseline. If the opponent insists, I will accept or give him two serves to replay. I just like a peaceful setting :).
I feel you. If it’s close - and it’s coming in hot - I usually play it bc I can’t 100% give an honest call of it being out. Sometimes that leads me to playing a close bad ball but whatever. I’m not winning atp points or money.

I don’t get them often but I agree on the blatant bad calls though. I’ll be nice questioning them about it. But when they continue to do it I just take the points and tell them I’m overturning the call lol
 

ktx

Professional
I have found some doubles teams unclear on the rules when they disagree on a call. I had someone challenge me once when I didn't see the ball my partner called out, trying to imply we disagreed and it should be their point. But if my opponents do that thing where they look at each other to figure out if the ball was out but neither has actually called it out, then I am taking that point every time.
 

tennis3

Hall of Fame
You need Ian's advice more than anyone. You need to be assertive with line calls.

At first I typed up you're only hurting yourself and your team, but that's not true. You're hurting the rest of the league if you're allowing bullies to make you change your line calls. That only encourages them to act the same way to the rest of the players in the league.
What you're essentially saying is that, when the other guy puffs up his chest and declares he's the Alpha Dog, I need to puff my chest up even more and say nope, I'M the Alpha Dog. I get it. That's what guys do. It's all part of the experience. I just prefer say yup, you're the Alpha Dog. We'll do whatever you say.

In other words, I don't very often get into arguments about who has the bigger c0ck. I'm quite happy for the other guy to have the bigger c0ck and just leave mine in my pants. But this sort of posturing seems to be pretty important to most guys. In some ways, more important than the match itself. But letting these guys have their way usually disarms them. Nobody wants to argue with a guy that just agrees with them.

To put it another way, I'm basically just saying "Yes Dear".
 
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ChrisG

Professional
Regarding this topic, it’s more about overall education. Playing fair isn’t taught anymore, it’s just about taking shortcuts to winning.
It’s a shame because it’s not a youngsters problem, a lot of grown adults also have that bad mentality.
Luckily, I play 99% on red clay, so it’s easier to ask for a mark: here in France if the player who announce the play can’t show you a mark, then he looses the point. It prevents a lot of cheating.
But I can’t imagine myself playing on HC regularly, knowing you’re 100% dependent on your opponent good faith
 

Vicious49

Legend
Cheaters are very creative. However on some clay court lines make a plastic sound, so a ball can sound in.
Never played on clay so I didn't realize this but this was on hard court.
Maybe it hit the back fence or wall?
Ha! Not even close. The ball was in by like a foot. This was a guy who is known for calling anything remotely close out. Yet on his own balls it's always: 'out? you sure?'. Super annoying guy to play with.
 

penpal

Semi-Pro
What you're essentially saying is that, when the other guy puffs up his chest and declares he's the Alpha Dog, I need to puff my chest up even more and say nope, I'M the Alpha Dog. I get it. That's what guys do. It's all part of the experience. I just prefer say yup, you're the Alpha Dog. We'll do whatever you say.

In other words, I don't very often get into arguments about who has the bigger c0ck. I'm quite happy for the other guy to have the bigger c0ck and just leave mine in my pants. But this sort of posturing seems to be pretty important to most guys. In some ways, more important than the match itself. But letting these guys have their way usually disarms them. Nobody wants to argue with a guy that just agrees with them.

To put it another way, I'm basically just saying "Yes Dear".
I've also decided not to argue over these things, but in my mind I (maybe oddly) still have an Alpha Dog mentality. Basically, I don't apologize if they question my call or argue if I disagree with theirs, I just give a slight nod and maybe an understated, "ok," and move onto the next point - thinking to myself, "I'm going to make it tough for him to make enough bad calls to beat me." Basically, I tell myself that he obviously is nervous and thinks he needs to make all of the close calls in his favor to have a chance at beating me, and so I'll just try to beat him by hitting fewer shots as close to the lines.

Personally, I think it sends a confident and intimidating message to be unconcerned about a disputed call here or there. And it's a message I learned by being on the other end, playing against people who are better than me. They rarely care if me or my partner make a call with which they disagree because they know it's just one point in a long match - a long match that will definitely trend to their favor because they are a better player(s).
 
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cks

Hall of Fame
Personally, I think it sends a confident and intimidating message to be unconcerned about a disputed call here or there. And it's a message I learned by being on the other end, playing against people who are better than me. They rarely care if me or my partner make a call with which they disagree because they know it's just one point in a long match - a long match that will definitely trend to their favor because they are a better player(s).
+1
 

Yamin

Hall of Fame
People call my balls out before they land in, sometimes with the ball being behind them. What's the right way to handle this? Always ends in opponent going crazy if I make a comment. Even a guy I regularly play with will call most line balls out. It's expected but...
 
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Pass750

Professional
People call my balls out before they land in, sometimes with the ball being behind them. What's the right way to handle this? Always ends in opponent going crazy if I make a comment.
As soon as they make an incorrect line call the point is over and it’s your point.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
The instruction you may be referring to is called The Code in the USTA. It suppliments the admittedly vague ITF rules on line calling:


Having grown up mostly in the US, I assumed this code was a basic part of tennis. Once I moved to Europe, I realised it was rather different, with varying 'codes' in use.
Though most go by their own version of the USTA Code in practice.
 

darkhorse

Semi-Pro
Maybe it's a fine line (no pun intended), but to me line calls should be "obvious" and maybe not necessarily "assertive". You do need to sure about your calls but tennis3 says sometimes confidence can be misinterpreted as taking joy in your opponent missing, which can lead to issues. On the other hand, when you're indoors sometimes it's hard to hear so you do have to be somewhat vocal, most people understand that but some don't, and those who don't can go fly a kite.

I will say that the ET advice of "taking a beat" to be sure about the call is what I typically do, and I've had rare occasions where people see that as me intentionally making a bad call or waiting to see if my shot lands in. Usually that can be deescalated pretty quickly, and I like to think I have a pretty strong pattern of fair calls so I don't have many disagreements on that. If after that "beat" I'm not 100% sure, it's in, so people usually realize what I'm doing.
 

Aurellian

Semi-Pro
The frequency of hooking in USTA is diminishing the fun of the sport for me. Too many men are not gentlemen on the court. If it's near the line it's out, from what I have seen. Anything near the line I play. I agree that a verbal call along with a finger is the best thing to do.
 
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