Eugenie Bouchard maintains worst collapse in tennis history (yes)

#53
You must be Breakpoint's twin brother. Welcome buddy. Hope you're the smarter one.
Hi Attila
Google the "Duke" (no, not John Wayne) the other Duke last name Kahanamoku. In 1917 rode a wave at Castle's 30 foot take-off face for at least 1 mile.
Riding a 16 foot 114 pound shaped redwood board without a fin (called a skeg). I was not there to see it, but would have liked to have been. There are
many surfers here into old-time style riding solid wood finless boards. It is amazing what they can do.

I know breakpoint, but he not my brother.

Aloha
 
#54
I read once that he always had to suck hind tit in comparison to other Swedes, and he fought, and fought, and fought to be ranked Number One(winning 3 Slams in one year in the process, if memory serves), and he said he was, like, "What? You want me to be Number One again?!?!" Wasn't happening...but at least he wasn't obnoxious-yet-on the way down like whatserface. That came later...
Yeah, he'd always had to try really hard, and for that reason he had even previously been subject to fluctuations in form when his motivation dipped even a little (for example, I believe he showed up to Roland Garros 1985 having not won a tournament all year, but he then won that playing some of his best tennis to dismiss McEnroe and Lendl easily in the last two rounds). He was also a very smart tactical player. In the '85 Roland Garros final, it was very windy, and he responded by mixing his game up, including playing several lobs into the wind, and Lendl couldn't deal with it at all.

By the way, he didn't beat Lendl again until the 1988 US Open final, during which he didn't miss a first serve until midway through the second set!
 
#55
Yeah, he'd always had to try really hard, and for that reason he had even previously been subject to fluctuations in form when his motivation dipped even a little (for example, I believe he showed up to Roland Garros 1985 having not won a tournament all year, but he then won that playing some of his best tennis to dismiss McEnroe and Lendl easily in the last two rounds). He was also a very smart tactical player. In the '85 Roland Garros final, it was very windy, and he responded by mixing his game up, including playing several lobs into the wind, and Lendl couldn't deal with it at all.

By the way, he didn't beat Lendl again until the 1988 US Open final, during which he didn't miss a first serve until midway through the second set!
Didn't know THAT stat, good find-I just remember it was a very intense match, and one I enjoyed immensely, as that wrapped up the top ranking for him and I couldn't stand Lendl.
 
#56
Mats Wilander's decline after 1988 was pretty precipitous. Sure, he was still #12 in 1989, but he had been a dominant #1 in 1988. Bouchard started from a much lower level, so her decline hasn't been that much greater proportionately. And it got a lot worse for Wilander after 1989 (barring the 1990 Australian Open).
Bouchard's case is nothing like Wilander's. Wilander already won a Slam in 1982 at the age of 18 (or barely 18) and was a Slam contender until 1988 so for a 7-year period. Bouchard made a splash in 2014 so she already fell within a year of her first good run.

Wilander just peaked early, his best years were 18-24 and once he collected 3 Slams in 1988 he felt exhausted mentally. Bouchard got distracted, not declined.
 
#58
Didn't know THAT stat, good find-I just remember it was a very intense match, and one I enjoyed immensely, as that wrapped up the top ranking for him and I couldn't stand Lendl.
I can't prove this and I'll understand if you don't believe me, but I didn't "find" the stat about Wilander's serve in the 1988 final - I remembered it from watching the match 27 years ago!

(It was only my second US Open final, so things were new to me and hence more exciting. Or to put it in the language of Sherlock Holmes when he tells Watson that he plans to forget that the world is flat, I didn't have so many things clogging up my brain and so had plenty of room to store new ones).

Talking of the summer of 1988, do you remember when the ATP announced in July or August that Edberg would be #1 the next week, and then retracted the following day and said that they'd miscalculated and that Lendl would still be #1?

They didn't have www.live-tennis.eu back in 1988! (And the formula they used to use was more complicated by far than is the one they use now, because of bonus points, average points, and so on).
 
#59
Bouchard's case is nothing like Wilander's. Wilander already won a Slam in 1982 at the age of 18 (or barely 18) and was a Slam contender until 1988 so for a 7-year period. Bouchard made a splash in 2014 so she already fell within a year of her first good run.

Wilander just peaked early, his best years were 18-24 and once he collected 3 Slams in 1988 he felt exhausted mentally. Bouchard got distracted, not declined.
The only comparison I made was with regard to the speed of decline, not the length of time they had good form. Of course you're right that they are totally different in terms of how long their good form was before the decline.

I'd say that Wilander also got distracted more than declined. Doesn't your claim that he was exhausted mentally suggest this too?

By the way, Wilander only turned 18 a couple of months after Roland Garros 1982. He was the first 17-year-old Slam champion of the modern era.
 
#60
I can't prove this and I'll understand if you don't believe me, but I didn't "find" the stat about Wilander's serve in the 1988 final - I remembered it from watching the match 27 years ago!

(It was only my second US Open final, so things were new to me and hence more exciting. Or to put it in the language of Sherlock Holmes when he tells Watson that he plans to forget that the world is flat, I didn't have so many things clogging up my brain and so had plenty of room to store new ones).

Talking of the summer of 1988, do you remember when the ATP announced in July or August that Edberg would be #1 the next week, and then retracted the following day and said that they'd miscalculated and that Lendl would still be #1?

They didn't have www.live-tennis.eu back in 1988! (And the formula they used to use was more complicated by far than is the one they use now, because of bonus points, average points, and so on).
Nope, I just remembered Super Saturday(and how unfair it was for the 2nd men's semifinal, coming, as it did, after the other seminfinal AND the women's final), how CBS played it up, and how much I disliked Lendl.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
#61
Not much to see, between that and that pelican jaw, I don't see what the big fuss is about. Man, that song is hilarious...awful music and singing, not to mention the unflattering subject matter.
She is a woman with a skill aside from social media, yoga, makeup, drinking coffee, and socializing. She gets extra points, a la Danica Patrick, US women's soccer team, those beach volleyball chicks, etc.
 
#65
I've done the research and confirmed Bouchard's slide in tennis is unprecedented. We're talking Andre Agassi meltdown unprecedented.

Forget the three Slam Semifinals and 1 Final in a Calendar year. Here is the breakdown before her disastrous slide:

2011: 25–15
2012: 46–16
2013: 39–24
2014: 45–23 (Year end #7)
2015: 9–17


You have a player win a proven win ratio (although only 32nd in 2013) going to 9-17 with much of the calendar year done. Furthermore after the Aussie Open and Indian Wells, she goes 7 major tournaments with 1 win. ONE.

That's not counting tournies like Connecticut where she lost against in the 1st round, an astounding 1-6, 0-6. I put up better fights against guys 2 levels above me. This is uncanny. Whatever her injury issues may be this type of display has never been seen in the tennis world. Ever.

Amazingly, she still sits 25th on the back of the Aussie Open quarter and Indian Wells, but without those early, now distant performances, she's out of the Top 50.
Didn't Ernie Gulbis fall like 20+ spots in the rankings after The French Open because he had like QF points to defend from 2014 and he lost in the first round.
 
#66
Actually I'm pretty sure Coria and Gaudio after FO 2004 were pretty much forgotten. Bouchard is still getting talked about (all be it not for playing good tennis).
 
#67
Guys there is already a general Genie thread! We must all search for bigger downward career spirals!

Dinara Safina went from 55-16 in 2009 (including two major finals and a semi) to 13-15 in 2010 (3-3 at majors).
Three of those wins came at the AO, meaning she went 10-14 over the rest of the season.

She missed a few months with injury, but she returned in time for clay season, winning only 1-2 matches.
She withdrew from Wimbledon after an 0-5 run; seems more mental than physical.
She won back to back matches three times between July and October, but never won 3 in a row.

Ranking fell from 2 to 62.
Well 4 of Bouchard's wins this year have been from the Aussie Open. She's 5-16 outside of that one event. And the ranking follows this man's post:


Didn't Ernie Gulbis fall like 20+ spots in the rankings after The French Open because he had like QF points to defend from 2014 and he lost in the first round.
As someone else has said, Bouchard will be out of the Top 100 soon. She won't qualify for the WTF for one. She's currently 24th, she loses 230 points with another 1st round loss at the USO.

Between Wuhan and the WTF, she'll be in the 50s and then the only thing keeping her in the 100 is AO and Indian Wells from early in the year. So you're looking at a girl going from #7 to outside 100 in just over a year.
 
#68
Actually I'm pretty sure Coria and Gaudio after FO 2004 were pretty much forgotten. Bouchard is still getting talked about (all be it not for playing good tennis).
Service yips killed Coria's career and it's a shame. He was a tremendous player. He was so good, that he was still winning matches having 20+ double faults. That's insane. He went from YE #7 to YE #8 with regards to his French Open Final aftermath. So it wasn't until 2 years removed from that final his yips became too much and he fell to 116, then 1363.

But again, this is due to injury. Bouchard is just plain sucking.
 
#69
Actually I'm pretty sure Coria and Gaudio after FO 2004 were pretty much forgotten. Bouchard is still getting talked about (all be it not for playing good tennis).
2005 was one of Coria's best seasons. Gaudio was never too special before FO so it isn't very comparable
 
#70
Well 4 of Bouchard's wins this year have been from the Aussie Open. She's 5-16 outside of that one event. And the ranking follows this man's post:




As someone else has said, Bouchard will be out of the Top 100 soon. She won't qualify for the WTF for one. She's currently 24th, she loses 230 points with another 1st round loss at the USO.

Between Wuhan and the WTF, she'll be in the 50s and then the only thing keeping her in the 100 is AO and Indian Wells from early in the year. So you're looking at a girl going from #7 to outside 100 in just over a year.
Not sure what you meant there. But anyways, I could definitely see Eugenie winning 4 matches between now and November, though she'll definitely have more than 15 losses.
Even with 4 more wins, though, she'll probably be ranked outside top 60 year end.
I'd call them very comparably year-to-year regressions. We'll have to wait and see for sure.
 
#71
2005 was one of Coria's best seasons. Gaudio was never too special before FO so it isn't very comparable
Gaudio won the FO. What the hell has Bouchard done???


If Gaudio with a slam win wasn't too special, then Bouchard isn't really anything to scream about either. BTW Gaudio had a good record over Nadal on clay.
 
#72
Gaudio won the FO. What the hell has Bouchard done???


If Gaudio with a slam win wasn't too special, then Bouchard isn't really anything to scream about either. BTW Gaudio had a good record over Nadal on clay.
I meant in comparison to Eugenie's struggles. Gaudio actually had better overall results following his FO win, even though they weren't all that memorable.
So comparing his "sudden descent" to Bouchard' 2015 doesn't make much sense.
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
#73
Mats Wilander's decline after 1988 was pretty precipitous. Sure, he was still #12 in 1989, but he had been a dominant #1 in 1988. Bouchard started from a much lower level, so her decline hasn't been that much greater proportionately. And it got a lot worse for Wilander after 1989 (barring the 1990 Australian Open).
It was about motivation in Wilander's case. He had to work very hard mentally to play his best tennis, playing the percentages perfectly. His cruise game wasn't particularly good in comparison to other players. His wife said that he just got bored with tennis. After Santoro battered him at the 1991 French Open, Wilander stopped playing tennis for 2 years, and even that match against Santoro was after a few years of decline and continuing to travel through habit rather than desire.

Yeah, he'd always had to try really hard, and for that reason he had even previously been subject to fluctuations in form when his motivation dipped even a little (for example, I believe he showed up to Roland Garros 1985 having not won a tournament all year, but he then won that playing some of his best tennis to dismiss McEnroe and Lendl easily in the last two rounds). He was also a very smart tactical player. In the '85 Roland Garros final, it was very windy, and he responded by mixing his game up, including playing several lobs into the wind, and Lendl couldn't deal with it at all.

By the way, he didn't beat Lendl again until the 1988 US Open final, during which he didn't miss a first serve until midway through the second set!
In the 1988 French Open final against Leconte, Wilander got 97% of his first serves in during the whole match. He missed only two first serves. Wilander spun these serves in without much pace, with the intention being to stop Leconte getting a look at second serves and from getting fired up into getting strong returns off the first serve. The consistency of Wilander's gameplan wore Leconte down before long.

In the 1987 US Open final, Wilander mostly went toe-to-toe with Lendl from the baseline. In the 1988 US Open final, Wilander changed this by charging the net a lot and mixing up his play. Wilander should have won the 1988 US Open final a lot sooner than he did. The ridiculous time violation that Wilander was given when he was 6-4, 4-1 up, knocked Wilander out of his mental focus for a good while.

Actually I'm pretty sure Coria and Gaudio after FO 2004 were pretty much forgotten. Bouchard is still getting talked about (all be it not for playing good tennis).
Coria and Gaudio were still around in 2005, and both of them played at the year-end Masters Cup in Shanghai. Ranking wise, Gaudio was at his peak in 2005.

Service yips killed Coria's career and it's a shame. He was a tremendous player. He was so good, that he was still winning matches having 20+ double faults. That's insane. He went from YE #7 to YE #8 with regards to his French Open Final aftermath. So it wasn't until 2 years removed from that final his yips became too much and he fell to 116, then 1363.
Coria was world number 3 at the time of the 2004 French Open, behind Federer and Roddick. Federer had only recently ended a 31 match winning streak on clay for Coria, in the 2004 Hamburg final. Coria had to have shoulder surgery in August 2004, after he injured it at Wimbledon. That put him out for 3 months.

The service yips didn't start for Coria until 2005 Umag (July 2005). By the spring of 2006, it was getting ridiculously bad (20+ double faults in best of 3 sets matches). That's like giving your opponent a set headstart. It ruined Coria's career.

But again, this is due to injury. Bouchard is just plain sucking.
What about Agassi going from spending the majority of 1995 as world number 1, to plummeting to as low as 141 in the world on 10 November 1997? I think a lot of Agassi's decline at this time was based on a lack of desire for tennis and personal problems. Agassi's loss to Sampras in the 1995 US Open final was the start of this decline.
 
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#74
Well 4 of Bouchard's wins this year have been from the Aussie Open. She's 5-16 outside of that one event. And the ranking follows this man's post:




As someone else has said, Bouchard will be out of the Top 100 soon. She won't qualify for the WTF for one. She's currently 24th, she loses 230 points with another 1st round loss at the USO.

Between Wuhan and the WTF, she'll be in the 50s and then the only thing keeping her in the 100 is AO and Indian Wells from early in the year. So you're looking at a girl going from #7 to outside 100 in just over a year.
She won today, and actually her section of the draw is insanely wide open. Sharapova pulled out, so the only seeded player remaining in her quarter of the draw is Svitolina. Everyone else lost.
 
#75
Hi Attila
Google the "Duke" (no, not John Wayne) the other Duke last name Kahanamoku. In 1917 rode a wave at Castle's 30 foot take-off face for at least 1 mile.
Riding a 16 foot 114 pound shaped redwood board without a fin (called a skeg). I was not there to see it, but would have liked to have been. There are
many surfers here into old-time style riding solid wood finless boards. It is amazing what they can do.

I know breakpoint, but he not my brother.

Aloha
George would go
 
#77
Agassi came back after 2 years of disaster. This girl ain't coming back.

When I typed in her name all I got was a romantic comedy movie being made about her super bowl bet date.

Like wow. She's gone. And finishing back to back outside Top 80. Unbelievable.
 
#82
Thank goodness Bianca has taken over the Canadian women's tennis banner from Genie. Hopefully Genie can move full time into a modelling career, marry a star athlete and never be heard from again. The Canadian fans are tired of her drama. We can have much more entertaining drama from andreescu.
 

Aussie Darcy

Talk Tennis Guru
#84
I'd hardly call a QF showing in Auckland, winning the doubles title in Auckland, winning a match at a slam and doing a decent job at pushing the #1 Halep there too and maintaining a top 100 ranking as the worst collapse IN TENNIS HISTORY.

If she plummeted out of the top 500, went on a 10+ match winning streak (something Mladenovic did after making the top 10, I feel like that was worse) than yeah you'd have a point but she's still around.

Yes she had a spectacular 2014 and many over hyped her to no extent but I can think of more players who achieved things and never did anything again. She's still around, she hasn't just given up on the sport altogether.
 
#86
And now bounced out of the qualies in Miami in her first match, with a bagel to boot

I wonder if she even still wants to play tennis
Hey buddy, you try playing when you're paralyzed with fear that the bathroom floor in the locker room might be wet.

Ya, not so easy now, huh?
 
#89
I'd hardly call a QF showing in Auckland, winning the doubles title in Auckland, winning a match at a slam and doing a decent job at pushing the #1 Halep there too and maintaining a top 100 ranking as the worst collapse IN TENNIS HISTORY.

If she plummeted out of the top 500, went on a 10+ match winning streak (something Mladenovic did after making the top 10, I feel like that was worse) than yeah you'd have a point but she's still around.

Yes she had a spectacular 2014 and many over hyped her to no extent but I can think of more players who achieved things and never did anything again. She's still around, she hasn't just given up on the sport altogether.
Yup, the overrating of Bouchard initially (mainly due to her looks, let's be honest) is now matched by the proclamations of disaster now.

She'll no doubt reach the top 30 or so again.
 
#90
I'd hardly call a QF showing in Auckland, winning the doubles title in Auckland, winning a match at a slam and doing a decent job at pushing the #1 Halep there too and maintaining a top 100 ranking as the worst collapse IN TENNIS HISTORY.

If she plummeted out of the top 500, went on a 10+ match winning streak (something Mladenovic did after making the top 10, I feel like that was worse) than yeah you'd have a point but she's still around.

Yes she had a spectacular 2014 and many over hyped her to no extent but I can think of more players who achieved things and never did anything again. She's still around, she hasn't just given up on the sport altogether.
Collapses caused by injury obviously not considered in the same sense. Yes, Bouchard made 3 consecutive Slam Semifinals and a Final, reached #5 and YE #7. That was at 20 years old. She hasn't finished inside YE Top 40 in the 4 proceeding seasons. That's insane level of implosion IN YOUR PRIME.

Looking through on the WTA or ATP you'll be hard pressed to find such a massive upswing and subsequent slide. IN PRIME, NOT INJURY-RELATED.

Take some recent examples.

Jennifer Capriati has 4 consecutive Top 10 finishes, then takes a hiatus. Comes back and finished 24th then 66 then 101 but comes back to have 4 strong seasons and wins Slams before retiring.
Ana Ivanovic, blasts through to YE #4 and #5 in 07-08. Drops outside Top 10, has some injuries, comes back to a Top 5 finish in 2014 and a last Slam Semi in 2015. Retired after 2016.

Cases like Safina or Jordan were obviously injury issues. Others like Schiavone were more prone to 1 surface rather than all-around like Bouchard.

Now obviously Bouchard is young enough to come back like Capriati or Ivanovic but she's dropped worse than they did after only 1 seasons where he made deep runs at 3 of 4 Slams. Again not injury related and she's been getting embarassed out there. Mladenovic as an example you brought up doesn't apply because she didn't reach the highs of Eugenie. That's why the Kournikova comparison also doesn't apply (1 Slam SF).

She'll no doubt reach the top 30 or so again.
For what, a week on a fluke schedule? What possible indication has she given anyone about getting consistently back into Top 30?
 

Aussie Darcy

Talk Tennis Guru
#94
Collapses caused by injury obviously not considered in the same sense. Yes, Bouchard made 3 consecutive Slam Semifinals and a Final, reached #5 and YE #7. That was at 20 years old. She hasn't finished inside YE Top 40 in the 4 proceeding seasons. That's insane level of implosion IN YOUR PRIME.

Looking through on the WTA or ATP you'll be hard pressed to find such a massive upswing and subsequent slide. IN PRIME, NOT INJURY-RELATED.

Take some recent examples.

Jennifer Capriati has 4 consecutive Top 10 finishes, then takes a hiatus. Comes back and finished 24th then 66 then 101 but comes back to have 4 strong seasons and wins Slams before retiring.
Ana Ivanovic, blasts through to YE #4 and #5 in 07-08. Drops outside Top 10, has some injuries, comes back to a Top 5 finish in 2014 and a last Slam Semi in 2015. Retired after 2016.

Cases like Safina or Jordan were obviously injury issues. Others like Schiavone were more prone to 1 surface rather than all-around like Bouchard.

Now obviously Bouchard is young enough to come back like Capriati or Ivanovic but she's dropped worse than they did after only 1 seasons where he made deep runs at 3 of 4 Slams. Again not injury related and she's been getting embarassed out there. Mladenovic as an example you brought up doesn't apply because she didn't reach the highs of Eugenie. That's why the Kournikova comparison also doesn't apply (1 Slam SF).



For what, a week on a fluke schedule? What possible indication has she given anyone about getting consistently back into Top 30?
You mention her finishing YE #7 at the end of 2014 and then not being in the top 40 at the end of the 2015 season. Are you just not going to mention part of the reason why she didn't rank well at the end of the 2015, one year after her breakout year?

Y'know, the event that saw her withdraw from several tournaments, create a massive lawsuit which she only recently won? Y'know... that thing..... Cmon...
 
#95
op who cares? have you had a look at her IG lately?
I just did. 1.9 mill eh? I mean, continuing her career means she travels the world taking photos right? I shake my head though a lot of the recent photos are pretty meaningless but who am I to judge.

You mention her finishing YE #7 at the end of 2014 and then not being in the top 40 at the end of the 2015 season. Are you just not going to mention part of the reason why she didn't rank well at the end of the 2015, one year after her breakout year?

Y'know, the event that saw her withdraw from several tournaments, create a massive lawsuit which she only recently won? Y'know... that thing..... Cmon...
You mean the career ending concussion? I'm a skeptic.
 
#96
You mention her finishing YE #7 at the end of 2014 and then not being in the top 40 at the end of the 2015 season. Are you just not going to mention part of the reason why she didn't rank well at the end of the 2015, one year after her breakout year?

Y'know, the event that saw her withdraw from several tournaments, create a massive lawsuit which she only recently won? Y'know... that thing..... Cmon...
... You mean the career ending concussion? I'm a skeptic.
She slips in the shower, conks her head and suddenly realizes that filing a $$$ lawsuit is a lot easier and more lucrative than practicing every day and trying to earn a living by competing with women who actually care about their sport. I'm a skeptic too!
 

Aussie Darcy

Talk Tennis Guru
#97
I just did. 1.9 mill eh? I mean, continuing her career means she travels the world taking photos right? I shake my head though a lot of the recent photos are pretty meaningless but who am I to judge.



You mean the career ending concussion? I'm a skeptic.
I didn't say career ending, if it was career ending then she would've retired. But there's no doubt in my mind it impacted her game.

Here's a rehash of what happened: After a series of losses and a crumby 2015 after a breakthrough 2014, Bouchard had finally turned it around at the 2015 US Open. Won back to back to back matches for the first time in 8 months and had won a doubles match as well where she played with one of the defending champions. Looked like she was on the way back after a mediocre run and then bam, concussion. Forced her to withdraw from the event and saw her withdraw from a few more events, she tried to return in Beijing but retired with the concussion and didn't play for the rest of the year.

She hasn't had the results since, had flashes here and then just like we see with many players after returning from injury or pregnancy. Azarenka comes to mind, had flashes here and then but no titles or massive slam runs. Concussions are nasty business. Just ask fellow tennis player Casey Dellacqua. Was having a fantastic 2015 in doubles, made two slam finals, won a Premier Mandatory tournament, played in Beijing and hit her head and got a concussion, said she couldn't get out of bed some days from the migraines, didn't play for almost all of 2016.

I'm not ready to declare this the worst collapse in tennis history.
 

Aussie Darcy

Talk Tennis Guru
#98
She slips in the shower, conks her head and suddenly realizes that filing a $$$ lawsuit is a lot easier and more lucrative than practicing every day and trying to earn a living by competing with women who actually care about their sport. I'm a skeptic too!
You clearly know nothing about concussions, pathetic troll.
 
Was she ever that great to begin with? To me she is just another #Kournikova-lite who played good just long enough to get the media exposure, then got lazy once she got what she wanted...her 15 minutes of fame. #Dust

#GI
How many slam semifinals and finals did Kournikova make, GrannyB?
 
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