Eureka! I've Found my Perfect Grips - Thanks Shroud!

#1
Had an epiphany at the park yesterday and finally found the perfect grips for me! Went to hit against the wall as usual, temps 42 degrees, and amazingly an elderly gentlemen was already there so of course I asked if he'd like to hit.

He gladly accepted and as usual I started off hitting a SW FH and 2HBH. Forehand felt smooth and natural backhand felt like dog poop... Then I remembered someone recommending "Shroud's style" in my last post so I figured what the heck I'll give it another shot.

At first it really off, I couldn't get any solid contact on the ball and was always hitting it late. But after I mentally changed my contact point AND told myself not to supinate beyond a 90 degree plane the contact when hitting the ball felt AMAZING!

Have my match vs. my 5.0 friend in 12 days, will get a match in vs. my 4.0+ dad sometime before then, and I took the guy at the park's number down so I've increased my hitting partners to 2.

If I controlled every ball and placed it in his strike zone going about 60% speed, he would deliver a beautiful slow paced rally ball every time from his forehand side, perfect to build muscle memory! I also admired his willingness to improve, after he saw me recording he asked for me to record him and send him videos so he could analyze his strokes.

Even after playing 25 years in Korea and 5 years in the States, he still was hungry to improve.

 
#2
Had an epiphany at the park yesterday and finally found the perfect grips for me! Went to hit against the wall as usual, temps 42 degrees, and amazingly an elderly gentlemen was already there so of course I asked if he'd like to hit.

He gladly accepted and as usual I started off hitting a SW FH and 2HBH. Forehand felt smooth and natural backhand felt like dog poop... Then I remembered someone recommending "Shroud's style" in my last post so I figured what the heck I'll give it another shot.

At first it really off, I couldn't get any solid contact on the ball and was always hitting it late. But after I mentally changed my contact point AND told myself not to supinate beyond a 90 degree plane the contact when hitting the ball felt AMAZING!

Have my match vs. my 5.0 friend in 12 days, will get a match in vs. my 4.0+ dad sometime before then, and I took the guy at the park's number down so I've increased my hitting partners to 2.

If I controlled every ball and placed it in his strike zone going about 60% speed, he would deliver a beautiful slow paced rally ball every time from his forehand side, perfect to build muscle memory! I also admired his willingness to improve, after he saw me recording he asked for me to record him and send him videos so he could analyze his strokes.

Even after playing 25 years in Korea and 5 years in the States, he still was hungry to improve.

LOL love the pants and long sleeve shirt

Was he hitting a conti forehand?

Also i said it before ill say it again, your baseline game looks good. That bh grip seems to work for you. Movement, control and posture through the stroke looks good, and you hit on the rise well

@Shroud killing it lately... slaying j011y challenges, inspiring tennis players all over the forum with "shroud style" (btw feel free to wear a back hoodie and track pants next time @TennisProdigy for full shroud style effect)
 
#3
LOL love the pants and long sleeve shirt

Was he hitting a conti forehand?

Also i said it before ill say it again, your baseline game looks good. That bh grip seems to work for you. Movement, control and posture through the stroke looks good, and you hit on the rise well

@Shroud killing it lately... slaying j011y challenges, inspiring tennis players all over the forum with "shroud style" (btw feel free to wear a back hoodie and track pants next time @TennisProdigy for full shroud style effect)
He said he used an eastern fh first 25 years then switched to sw last 5 years and has improved a good bit.

Lol when it gets a bit colder I prob will bust out the track pants and hoody.

Baseline looks good on light rally’s, but maintaining that form in a match under pressure while tired is another story...

Now that I finally found my form I can now build muscle memory for a strong foundation.
 
#4
That's it. I am getting sweat pants and a hoodie. Gotta be some strange magic that happens that changes mere mortals to tennis savants when worn!

Anyway, was watching your vid on YT and was loving watching the other gentleman hitting that old school swing. Great consistent player and terrific reminder to just do, what you do, consistently.
 
#6
Had an epiphany at the park yesterday and finally found the perfect grips for me! Went to hit against the wall as usual, temps 42 degrees, and amazingly an elderly gentlemen was already there so of course I asked if he'd like to hit.

He gladly accepted and as usual I started off hitting a SW FH and 2HBH. Forehand felt smooth and natural backhand felt like dog poop... Then I remembered someone recommending "Shroud's style" in my last post so I figured what the heck I'll give it another shot.

At first it really off, I couldn't get any solid contact on the ball and was always hitting it late. But after I mentally changed my contact point AND told myself not to supinate beyond a 90 degree plane the contact when hitting the ball felt AMAZING!

Have my match vs. my 5.0 friend in 12 days, will get a match in vs. my 4.0+ dad sometime before then, and I took the guy at the park's number down so I've increased my hitting partners to 2.

If I controlled every ball and placed it in his strike zone going about 60% speed, he would deliver a beautiful slow paced rally ball every time from his forehand side, perfect to build muscle memory! I also admired his willingness to improve, after he saw me recording he asked for me to record him and send him videos so he could analyze his strokes.

Even after playing 25 years in Korea and 5 years in the States, he still was hungry to improve.

Thats awesome!! Glad you are experimenting and some of my posts are helping. “I am pretty fast so its all good”. Lol. Get a hoodie and you will be Shroud. Real men wear hoodies.

Practice some returns with that grip setup and you will see how it changes your return game.

Compliment that guy. Few players his age can and are willing to improve.

Great post!
 
#8
LOL love the pants and long sleeve shirt

Was he hitting a conti forehand?

Also i said it before ill say it again, your baseline game looks good. That bh grip seems to work for you. Movement, control and posture through the stroke looks good, and you hit on the rise well

@Shroud killing it lately... slaying j011y challenges, inspiring tennis players all over the forum with "shroud style" (btw feel free to wear a back hoodie and track pants next time @TennisProdigy for full shroud style effect)
Op is talented. Its not the easiest grip to master and the hoodie helps.

Shroud Style? I have to make the dance vid soon.

Lol people still hazzle me about being over dressed.
 
#10
Thats awesome!! Glad you are experimenting and some of my posts are helping. “I am pretty fast so its all good”. Lol. Get a hoodie and you will be Shroud. Real men wear hoodies.

Practice some returns with that grip setup and you will see how it changes your return game.

Compliment that guy. Few players his age can and are willing to improve.

Great post!
After we hit I complimented many parts of his game and offered constructive criticism. He is eager to learn so I may post some vids here and see if you guys have any tips for him, will probably hit with him tomorrow if he’s available.

What’s new here? SW grip forehand??!
SW forehand is the same, but I’ve now settled on a SW backhand (most extreme grip possible that I’ve seen) so no grip change required on groundies except for slices.
 
#11
Op is talented. Its not the easiest grip to master and the hoodie helps.

Shroud Style? I have to make the dance vid soon.

Lol people still hazzle me about being over dressed.
I don’t consider myself talented except in the footwork category. This was not my first time trying this grip, I did drop-hits in my basement against the couch for about an hour and about 30 min against the wall with this grip in the last 2 weeks during my experimentation.
 
#14
What do you mean? Supinate when where?
Right when you contact the ball, the natural tendency for a OHBH imo is to supinate your wrist sometimes as far as 180 degrees on the follow through.

Think about wrist pronation on a forehand, equivalent would be wrist supination on a backhand.

This adds topspin and can allow you to handle high balls more easily depending on angle of contact but contact is less “solid” I’ve found...
 

Curious

Hall of Fame
#15
Right when you contact the ball, the natural tendency for a OHBH imo is to supinate your wrist sometimes as far as 180 degrees on the follow through.

Think about wrist pronation on a forehand, equivalent would be wrist supination on a backhand.

This adds topspin and can allow you to handle high balls more easily depending on angle of contact but contact is less “solid” I’ve found...
Got it. So you tried to reduce supination for a more solid contact?
 
#16
Got it. So you tried to reduce supination for a more solid contact?
Exactly! Low-medium balls for max “plow through” and least spin, 0 degrees of supination (Palm faces ground after follow through).

High balls (shoulder or higher) I’m forced to supinate right now about 90 degrees to handle them (palm facing right side fence for a lefty).
 
#17
Right when you contact the ball, the natural tendency for a OHBH imo is to supinate your wrist sometimes as far as 180 degrees on the follow through.

Think about wrist pronation on a forehand, equivalent would be wrist supination on a backhand.

This adds topspin and can allow you to handle high balls more easily depending on angle of contact but contact is less “solid” I’ve found...
Timing is harder with that. I find its not conscious. For me at least it happens occasionally especially on higher balls or when i am rushed. Keep at it.
 
#18
Right when you contact the ball, the natural tendency for a OHBH imo is to supinate your wrist sometimes as far as 180 degrees on the follow through.

Think about wrist pronation on a forehand, equivalent would be wrist supination on a backhand.

This adds topspin and can allow you to handle high balls more easily depending on angle of contact but contact is less “solid” I’ve found...
I agree. But for balls that are contacted under net height and slower (aka i have time) that i want to lift up over the net and also get a bit of crosscourt punishment on, i do a lot of supination, i.e. i imagine im "throwing a frisbee"... its possible to hit a lot of winners from that position

But for normal rally balls or when dealing with your opponents good shot, youre right, best to control supiation
Only let go aka "throw the frisbee" if the shot is there to be had, to send the message "you can't just roll the ball over to either side, for thou will be punished"

Ive been playing too much grass lately, but had a hit on hard yesterday. Felt good to hit some topspin again. One thing i found... when hitting on the rise, its easy to just plow through the ball with a more horizontal swing path (i guess this is the limited supination you talk of), and if the ball was struck on the way down, i had to add more spin / supination ... a more vertical swingpath i guess youd say. But there was more timing to do it.
 
#19
Tennis is a journey when it comes to improving your game. If you keep playing you will notice you will always try to find an edge or you'll discover something new that helps your game in some way. An aha moment is a great feeling when you discover it but always strive to improve and talk to experienced players, take lessons and experiment but always remember there is always room for improvement at all levels.
 
#20
Tennis is a journey when it comes to improving your game. If you keep playing you will notice you will always try to find an edge or you'll discover something new that helps your game in some way. An aha moment is a great feeling when you discover it but always strive to improve and talk to experienced players, take lessons and experiment but always remember there is always room for improvement at all levels.
This is why tennis is the best sport in the world bar none ^^
 
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#23
Nicolas Almegro plays like this and doesn't switch grips and he has a very good FH/BH combination. I think this is how he was able to return serve offensively by not changing grips. He is coming back from knee surgery and hasn't been playing very well. Hope he has a better 2019 season!
 

Curious

Hall of Fame
#24
Nicolas Almegro plays like this and doesn't switch grips and he has a very good FH/BH combination. I think this is how he was able to return serve offensively by not changing grips. He is coming back from knee surgery and hasn't been playing very well. Hope he has a better 2019 season!
One of my favourites although mentally fcked up! Is his grip SW or Western forehand ?
 
#29
Puts great strain on the wrist. Reconsider it.
Are you referring to my extreme SW backhand? If so, I disagree. I’ve been hitting it everyday and my GE has finally gotten better now that I’m not over-supinating on the OHBH.

Contacting the ball late (esp. late+low) is a nightmare for this grip but as long as my contact point is correct, I feel better hitting this backhand than any OHBH or 2HBH combo that I’ve tried.
 
#30
Justin Henin used that grip on her backhand....not too shabby I would say. Do what works for you but I don't think she hit with the same side of the racket though.
 
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#31
Puts great strain on the wrist. Reconsider it.
agree with @TennisProdigy SW bh grip doesnt strain the wrist. In fact its the strongest wrist position. Regular Eastern BH basically is like holding a fist straight out. wrist is neutral. The SW bh grip has the wrist extended like you are telling someone to stop. If you fall forward into a wall or the ground do you stop your fall with a neutral or extended wrist? Extended because its the strongest....besides the more closed racquet face the SW is much better on highballs than the eastern because its stronger...
 
#32
Lol it sounds like you were fed up with people asking you the same questions over and over about grips xD
lol... I was fed up that is for sure. But not because of people asking me questions. @oserver was just being dense. Its a long long story but he thinks he has a revolutionary serve where he takes Feds FH elements and applies them to the serve, but you use a pancake grip. Anyhow someone posted a pict of Jack Socks fh and I commented that he was using a mild eastern BH grip (that somehow related to the topic) and he started saying that I was clueless about grips and clearly never coached anyone, etc. LOL.. like 20 pages went back and forth about grips and how to label them. So finally I made the vid to show him that fh grips have a corresponding BH grip.

Never seen a thread like this one dedicated to Oserver...
 

Curious

Hall of Fame
#33
agree with @TennisProdigy SW bh grip doesnt strain the wrist. In fact its the strongest wrist position. Regular Eastern BH basically is like holding a fist straight out. wrist is neutral. The SW bh grip has the wrist extended like you are telling someone to stop. If you fall forward into a wall or the ground do you stop your fall with a neutral or extended wrist? Extended because its the strongest....besides the more closed racquet face the SW is much better on highballs than the eastern because its stronger...
Isn’t extension independent of grip? You can extend the wrist with Eastern bh grip and keep it neutral with SW. Could it instead be stronger because your whole body is behind the shot with SW?
 
#34
Isn’t extension independent of grip? You can extend the wrist with Eastern bh grip and keep it neutral with SW. Could it instead be stronger because your whole body is behind the shot with SW?
I think its because of the wrist position mostly - i use a strong eastern BH grip (like Wawrinkas, enough to get my palm behind handle, close to SW) and you can push on the string bed and the wrist can easily stay solid because the palm is behind the grip. Whereas think of taking a continental backhand grip and trying to hit a topspin... the wrist bends and folds very easily and weakly.. it kind of hurts against heavy shots (unless you slice it, which has a locked wrist "L shape" and is low to high... so different kind of motion)

But it is true the more extreme the grip the more out in front you need to hit it, so you generally have more body behind the shot also
 
#35
Isn’t extension independent of grip? You can extend the wrist with Eastern bh grip and keep it neutral with SW. Could it instead be stronger because your whole body is behind the shot with SW?
semantics really. Yes you can keep it neutral with the sw, and extended with the eastern, but because of the grip orientation you really cant. Ex. Neutral with the SW will have a racquet face way to closed. Extended with the Eastern it will be way to open.

The whole body is behind the shot precisely because you can hit that grip with an extended wrist. You cant hit a shot that goes in with an eastern and extended wrist.
 
#36
semantics really. Yes you can keep it neutral with the sw, and extended with the eastern, but because of the grip orientation you really cant. Ex. Neutral with the SW will have a racquet face way to closed. Extended with the Eastern it will be way to open.

The whole body is behind the shot precisely because you can hit that grip with an extended wrist. You cant hit a shot that goes in with an eastern and extended wrist.
Ever tried the continental with a flexed wrist?
 
#38
no I dont think I did but maybe when I was younger. I can see that being pretty strong I suppose. Or it would break my wrist. :)
Gonna try and dial it in next time with ball machine, found success with the sw lately, usually eastern. Just looking at loading wrist differently with all 3 grips so as to have same slightly closed racquet face
 
#40
Didn't get to it yet still using eastern. Hope to hit the machine at the club this week, can video a kick serve challenge also and post after I download and learn adobe video editor. ( got till 2-1-19)
I hit a couple sw bh into net today but didn't load and was rushed during the whole match, no time to think, the kid 21 pounded me off the court, very refreshing, he said it was good tennis, i was in the match but really showed me I need to up my level. We pounded the balls around for 20 minutes after until i was dead , kid was putting in the corners with a steam racquet lol
 
#41
Didn't get to it yet still using eastern. Hope to hit the machine at the club this week, can video a kick serve challenge also and post after I download and learn adobe video editor. ( got till 2-1-19)
I hit a couple sw bh into net today but didn't load and was rushed during the whole match, no time to think, the kid 21 pounded me off the court, very refreshing, he said it was good tennis, i was in the match but really showed me I need to up my level. We pounded the balls around for 20 minutes after until i was dead , kid was putting in the corners with a steam racquet lol
Yep. The same swing path will hit the net. There is a vid I dont have acces to where Brad Gilbert trys all the bh grips starting with a fh grip. According to him he would never change grips and just rolled his wrist to hit the bh. Anyhow when he tried the sw grip he hit the ball into the ground before the service line!

So net is good :)
 
#42
I'd recommend bending more and moving up into the court so you can make contact with the ball higher. Slow relaxed rallies are the best time to cement new good habits.
 
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