EV

[Crocodile]

Move your EV to higher ground to avoid a thermal runaway event.
Details here

Electric Vehicles With Damaged Batteries Burn Down Florida Homes After Flood

State officials say EV batteries experiencing catastrophic ’thermal runaway' started at least six home fires.

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[Crocodile]

Nobody cares enough about you to tell you want to eat, do wear, etc.
Get over yourself.

Well this says more about your mind set.

 

[Crocodile]

Yeah it is a big problem around the world. It must be immediately addressed.

It’s an increasing problem in western counties right now -ie - governments and corporates dictating to people about a lot of things where they should have no business.

 

[sureshs]

It’s an increasing problem in western counties right now -ie - governments and corporates dictating to people about a lot of things where they should have no business.

Yeah they don't do that in non-western countries

 

[Crocodile]

Yeah they don't do that in non-western countries

They actually do and did but the west is heading in the wrong direction now.
Here’s an example of this mind set / watch if you like to the end and if you have a view - share it.

 

[sureshs]

96.4% of all passenger car sales registered in Norway last month were BEVs. Tesla saw much success in the country in September, with the company seeing more than 4,000 registrations.

 

[Crocodile]

Here’s an interesting blog on the EV situation including a discussion about Norway

The Norwegian Illusion

Goehring & Rozencwajg, Natural Resource Investors, discuss why they believe oil demand will remain vital for many years.

blog.gorozen.com

 

[Bartelby]

You're right! People are being dictated to about having to buy ICE autos because BEVs have dozens of imaginary defects that will ruin your life.

It’s an increasing problem in western counties right now -ie - governments and corporates dictating to people about a lot of things where they should have no business.

 

[jimmy8]

 

[Crocodile]

You're right! People are being dictated to about having to buy ICE autos because BEVs have dozens of imaginary defects that will ruin your life.

I am not telling anyone to buy an ICE or battery powered electric vehicles - it’s the governments around the world, and global agencies that are legislating policies to coerce people to buy EV’s.
I have given my reasons why I think the model of EV ownership has potentially negative consequences but you have continually pushed back with accusations of conspiracy theory - so I can’t help people like yourself - you will just have to work it out for yourself and go from there.

 

[Bartelby]

You are spreading pro-ICE fossil-fuel propaganda, so you are the problem you think you are addressing.

I am not telling anyone to buy an ICE or battery powered electric vehicles - it’s the governments around the world, and global agencies that are legislating policies to coerce people to buy EV’s.
I have given my reasons why I think the model of EV ownership has potentially negative consequences but you have continually pushed back with accusations of conspiracy theory - so I can’t help people like yourself - you will just have to work it out for yourself and go from there.

 

[Crocodile]

You are spreading pro-ICE fossil-fuel propaganda, so you are the problem you think you are addressing.

The pro-ICE fossil-fuel propaganda you constantly cite has been proven to be false many times. After all it’s quite ironic that most of the big fossil fuel companies also own and build the solar and wind projects.
Secondly the biggest manufacturer of EV’s is China and they have 1421 coal plants and buy massive amounts of coal from Australia.
When you constantly make these absurd allegations wouldn’t it be also fair that I accuse you of supporting CCP EV propaganda?

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

Lithium battery fire forces almost two-day shutdown of I-15

Interstate 15 has reopened after a nearly two day closure due to a fire involving a load of lithium-ion batteries that started on Friday. The

cdllife.com

Interstate 15 has reopened after a nearly two day closure due to a fire involving a load of lithium-ion batteries that started on Friday.

The closure began when the commercial vehicle hauling the batteries overturned, causing the load to catch fire at about 8 a.m. on Friday, July 26th on I-15 between Bartwo and Baker, California...

Even if you avoid EVs, the consequences will come for you.

 

[tennishabit]

Lithium battery fire forces almost two-day shutdown of I-15

Interstate 15 has reopened after a nearly two day closure due to a fire involving a load of lithium-ion batteries that started on Friday. The

cdllife.com

Even if you avoid EVs, the consequences will come for you.

better avoid all of them incl evs as much as possible lololololol...........

One in eight people are now living with obesity

New study released by the Lancet shows that, in 2022, more than 1 billion people in the world are now living with obesity. Malnutrition, in all its forms, includes undernutrition, inadequate vitamins or minerals, overweight and obesity. Undernutrition is responsible for half of the deaths of...

www.who.int

 

[Bartelby]

This is not relevant. And there is no irony involved if some companies diversify.

There is a powerful co-ordinated push by the far-right propaganda media to defend ICE autos and the fossil-fuel industry. Like climate denialist science, their propaganda is disinformation.

This is a more powerful force than that wielded in your Mickey-Mouse Klaus theory.

The pro-ICE fossil-fuel propaganda you constantly cite has been proven to be false many times. After all it’s quite ironic that most of the big fossil fuel companies also own and build the solar and wind projects.
Secondly the biggest manufacturer of EV’s is China and they have 1421 coal plants and buy massive amounts of coal from Australia.
When you constantly make these absurd allegations wouldn’t it be also fair that I accuse you of supporting CCP EV propaganda?

 

[Crocodile]

This is not relevant. And there is no irony involved if some companies diversify.

There is a powerful co-ordinated push by the far-right propaganda media to defend ICE autos and the fossil-fuel industry. Like climate denialist science, their propaganda is disinformation.

This is a more powerful force than that wielded in your Mickey-Mouse Klaus theory.

That’s your opinion however if we look at the facts and the reality of EV’s then it would be unwise to dismiss ideas as far right or conspiracy theory.
The fact is that fossil fuel companies are involved in solar and wind projects and adopting European ESG values:
It’s also a fact that the CCP uses 1421 coal plants and loads of Australian coal and rare earth metals to build the EV’s. This is not propaganda but reality that you cannot deny.
The other mathematical fact is that many EV’s and their associated technologies produce more carbon dioxide than many ICE cars like a Mazda 2 and also more than the new Toyota Hybrid Camry. These are facts.
Other facts include that EV sales have only been barely sustainable due to mass government subsidies and enforced mandates and corporate ESG. The truth is that many individuals do not want to own EV’s and financially they are a terrible idea - just ask Hertz
Anyway see what you come up with. BTW I know quite a few far left people who have the same view I have expressed here.

 

[Bartelby]

The last EV thread and this one were and are an endless cascade of ...

"Electric Car Downfall, Breakdown and Blowup" videos ...

by the climate science denialist brigade.

 

[Crocodile]

The last EV thread and this one were and are an endless cascade of ...

"Electric Car Downfall, Breakdown and Blowup" videos ...

by the climate science denialist brigade.

Are we supposed to pretend that EV’s are not having problems or are fit for purpose when they are not ?

 

[Bartelby]

You are supposed to live in the fact-based universe rather than in the land of fossil-fuel propaganda.

Are we supposed to pretend that EV’s are not having problems or are fit for purpose when they are not ?

 

[Crocodile]

The idea that replacing 2.47 billion ICE cars with EV’s is going to reduce the temperature of the planet is not going happen. In my opinion the reasons for this comment are:
1. It would simply take decades to build that many EV’s and the manufacturing process is very carbon intensive, more carbon intensive than building an ICE car and more carbon intensive than encouraging citizens to maintain their existing car.
2. The time frame to convert from coal and gas to solar and wind will also take decades and the constant replacing of the infrastructure every decade makes things quite questionable. In Australia the government is looking at purchasing and installing millions of solar panels - something that a 10 minute hail storm could destroy very quickly.
3. EV batteries are not recyclable - what will we do with the batteries when they can no longer hold their charge?
It would be far cheaper and effective to have house top roofs painted white, have white roads and plant more trees if your intention was to reduce urban heat. More energy efficient housing is also a more beneficial idea and doing these types of adaptive measures are easier to do and cheaper.

 

[Crocodile]

You are supposed to live in the fact-based universe rather than in the land of fossil-fuel propaganda.

I don’t know what you mean when you say this:
Here is BP ( a fossil fuel company) and their renewable programs - there is no talk of promoting petrol to the people but plenty of wind turbines.

https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/accelerating-australia/renewables-and-power.html

 

[Crocodile]

More fossil fuel propaganda here

 

[Bartelby]

The renewables revolution goes far beyond the BEV and the BEV is also the superior automobile for non climate-related reasons.

BP and other fossil fuel companies do like a hybrid strategy, but so what?

Meanwhile, the endless and mindless propaganda videos denigrating BEVs are funded by those who want the petrol bowser to rule.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Norway has a near 100% renewable electrical grid. America should first focus on developing solar, wind, and hydropower.

Climate alarmists need not be agitating for BEVs when the electrical grid is dependent on fossil fuels and when only 10% of the required number of charging stations have been built.
That is criminal. Do not place the cart before the horse!

Norway:

• Renewable energy: 99% of electricity from renewable sources
• Hydropower: ~88% of total electricity generation
• Wind power: ~10% of electricity mix
• Other sources (including thermal): ~2%

United States :

1. Renewable Energy Share:
   • In the first half of 2024, renewables provided 26% of total US generation output
2. Solar:
   • Solar accounted for nearly 7% of total US electrical generation in H1 2024
     https://www.solarpowerworldonline.c...-surpass-30-percent-us-electrical-generation/
3. Wind:
   • Wind provided 11.6% of total US electrical generation in H1 2024
     https://www.spglobal.com/commodityi...rces-of-electricity-in-the-first-half-of-2024
   • In April 2024, wind generation hit a record, exceeding coal-fired generation
     https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=62784
4. Hydropower:
   • Hydropower provided about 6.1% of total generation in the first four months of 2024
     https://www.solarpowerworldonline.c...-surpass-30-percent-us-electrical-generation/
5. Other Renewables:
   • Biomass and geothermal contribute smaller portions to the renewable mix.
6. Growth:
   • Wind and solar were the fastest-growing sources of US electricity in the first half of 2024
     https://www.spglobal.com/commodityi...rces-of-electricity-in-the-first-half-of-2024
   • Renewable energy capacity is set to exceed natural gas within 3 years
     https://www.solarpowerworldonline.c...ity-set-to-exceed-natural-gas-within-3-years/

This updated information shows significant growth in renewable energy in the US grid mix, with renewables now accounting for over a quarter of total generation and reaching even higher percentages in certain months.

Norway's PM seeks deeper clean energy cooperation with Japan

Ties upgraded as Jonas Gahr Stoere visits Tokyo amid China, Russia tensions

asia.nikkei.com

 

[Bartelby]

Still stuck in the era of the horse and cart while the Teslas and BYDs glide past you silently!

Norway has a near 100% renewable electrical grid. America should first focus on developing solar, wind, and hydropower.

Climate alarmists need not be agitating for BEVs when the electrical grid is dependent on fossil fuels and when only 10% of the required number of charging stations have been built.
That is criminal. Do not place the cart before the horse!

Norway:

• Renewable energy: 99% of electricity from renewable sources
• Hydropower: ~88% of total electricity generation
• Wind power: ~10% of electricity mix
• Other sources (including thermal): ~2%

United States :

1. Renewable Energy Share:
   • In the first half of 2024, renewables provided 26% of total US generation output
2. Solar:
   • Solar accounted for nearly 7% of total US electrical generation in H1 2024
     https://www.solarpowerworldonline.c...-surpass-30-percent-us-electrical-generation/
3. Wind:
   • Wind provided 11.6% of total US electrical generation in H1 2024
     https://www.spglobal.com/commodityi...rces-of-electricity-in-the-first-half-of-2024
   • In April 2024, wind generation hit a record, exceeding coal-fired generation
     https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=62784
4. Hydropower:
   • Hydropower provided about 6.1% of total generation in the first four months of 2024
     https://www.solarpowerworldonline.c...-surpass-30-percent-us-electrical-generation/
5. Other Renewables:
   • Biomass and geothermal contribute smaller portions to the renewable mix.
6. Growth:
   • Wind and solar were the fastest-growing sources of US electricity in the first half of 2024
     https://www.spglobal.com/commodityi...rces-of-electricity-in-the-first-half-of-2024
   • Renewable energy capacity is set to exceed natural gas within 3 years
     https://www.solarpowerworldonline.c...ity-set-to-exceed-natural-gas-within-3-years/

This updated information shows significant growth in renewable energy in the US grid mix, with renewables now accounting for over a quarter of total generation and reaching even higher percentages in certain months.

Norway's PM seeks deeper clean energy cooperation with Japan

Ties upgraded as Jonas Gahr Stoere visits Tokyo amid China, Russia tensions

asia.nikkei.com

 

[Flootoo]

They actually do and did but the west is heading in the wrong direction now.
Here’s an example of this mind set / watch if you like to the end and if you have a view - share it.

Why am I not surprised that you're pimping the same ******** that Brenton Tarrant was motivated by?
Because I've known you to be a racist **** from day one.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Still stuck in the era of the horse and cart while the Teslas and BYDs glide past you silently!

Sigh. We are trying to educate our favourite BEV Bart but have failed. There is no need to glorify BEVs.
The time for BEVs will eventually come. Just as it has come to Norway. But it should come only when the grid and charging stations are ready. Each country will proceed at their own pace.
You have conceded that GHG emissions of low income households commuting in their compact ICE are not significant. So lets throw that tired Greta alarmist talking point out the window.

There is absolutely no downside if the BEV adoption takes 10 years, 20 years or longer. None. It should not be rushed.

Focus first on the grid and the charging stations. Please be patient. Don't agitate and disrupt economies.

 

[Bartelby]

The time for the BEV will never come in some countries as the fossil-fuel lobby has effectively stopped the development with tariffs and other forms of political and economic force.

Sigh. We are trying to educate our favourite BEV Bart but have failed. There is no need to glorify BEVs.
The time for BEVs will eventually come. Just as it has come to Norway. But it should come only when the grid and charging stations are ready. Each country will proceed at their own pace.
You have conceded that GHG emissions of low income households commuting in their compact ICE are not significant. So lets throw that tired Greta alarmist talking point out the window.

There is absolutely no downside if the BEV adoption takes 10 years, 20 years or longer. None. It should not be rushed.

Focus first on the grid and the charging stations. Please be patient. Don't agitate and disrupt economies.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

The time for the BEV will never come in some countries as the fossil-fuel lobby has effectively stopped the development with tariffs and other forms of political and economic force.

Oil is a finite resource so the time for BEV will eventually come to every country.
In the meantime, each country will responsibly develop its electrical grid and charging infrastructure so that there is a seamless smooth transition. Not a chaotic painful transition.

Our favourite BEV Bart has utterly failed to point out any downside whatsoever if BEV adoption is delayed.

 

[Bartelby]

India glides into the future while America sputters along in the gasoline era:

India has established an objective to elevate the proportion of electric vehicle (EV) sales to 30% in private cars, 70% in commercial vehicles, 40% in buses, and 80% in two-wheelers and three-wheelers by the year 2030. This equates to an ambitious objective of 80 million EVs on Indian roads by 2030.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

As it stands, India already experiences daily power outages. A survey by LocalCircles revealed that 38% of households reported daily power cuts, with outages lasting anywhere from 2 to 12 hours.
This has been exacerbated by increased electricity demand due to extreme heat.

BEV mandates are foolish and reckless. India is not remotely ready for 2030 BEV mandates.
India's grid is dirtier than Norway's. Focus on the grid first.

India's Electricity Generation Breakdown​

Fossil fuels: 76.62% of total electricity generation

• Coal: 73.29% of total electricity generation
• Other fossil fuels (gas, oil): 3.33% of total electricity generation

Low-carbon sources: 23.38% of total electricity generation

• Hydropower: 7.49% of total electricity generation
• Solar: 6.57% of total electricity generation
• Wind: ~5% of total electricity generation (estimated)
• Nuclear: ~3% of total electricity generation (estimated)
• Other renewables (biomass, small hydro, etc.): ~1.32% of total electricity generation (estimated)

 

[Bartelby]

Yes, you do need an upgraded electricity grid and that's why America is falling into 'failed economy' status compared to China.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

First things first. Upgrade the grid before even discussing BEV quotas. Before the grid is ready, don't.even.think.about.it. That is just common sense.
Indian households have daily power outages and yet you are cheerleading for a BEV mandate. Ridiculous.
Each country will transition to BEV on its own timeline based on its own situation, needs and resources. Not every country has Norway's waterfalls.
The BEV transition is not a competition. It is just fine if America joins later. Just as your beloved CCP joined the Industrial Revolution 100 years later.

Yes, you do need an upgraded electricity grid and that's why America is falling into 'failed economy' status compared to China.

 

[Flootoo]

First things first. Upgrade the grid before even discussing BEV quotas. Before the grid is ready, don't.even.think.about.it. That is just common sense.
Indian households have daily power outages and yet you are cheerleading for a BEV mandate. Ridiculous.
Each country will transition to BEV on its own timeline based on its own situation, needs and resources. Not every country has Norway's waterfalls.
The BEV transition is not a competition. It is just fine if America joins later. Just as your beloved CCP joined the Industrial Revolution 100 years later.

Just like tennis. Get as fit as Djokovic before picking up a racket.

 

[Bartelby]

Capitalism is not a competition? Tell that to the East India Company!

First things first. Upgrade the grid before even discussing BEV quotas. Before the grid is ready, don't.even.think.about.it. That is just common sense.
Indian households have daily power outages and yet you are cheerleading for a BEV mandate. Ridiculous.
Each country will transition to BEV on its own timeline based on its own situation, needs and resources. Not every country has Norway's waterfalls.
The BEV transition is not a competition. It is just fine if America joins later. Just as your beloved CCP joined the Industrial Revolution 100 years later.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

You are supposed to live in the fact-based universe rather than in the land of fossil-fuel propaganda.

Believe Bart, not your lying eyes in other words.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

better avoid all of them incl evs as much as possible lololololol...........

One in eight people are now living with obesity

New study released by the Lancet shows that, in 2022, more than 1 billion people in the world are now living with obesity. Malnutrition, in all its forms, includes undernutrition, inadequate vitamins or minerals, overweight and obesity. Undernutrition is responsible for half of the deaths of...

www.who.int

I won't have one ever. I don't want to take the chance that it will burn and take out my house with it. Not sure what people over eating has to do with it.

 

[Bartelby]

You are a firm believer in the fossil-fuel propaganda line that electric vehicles are firecrackers on wheels.

I won't have one ever. I don't want to take the chance that it will burn and take out my house with it. Not sure what people over eating has to do with it.

 

[jimmy8]

You are a firm believer in the fossil-fuel propaganda line that electric vehicles are firecrackers on wheels.

All the facts that go against your side of the argument are not propaganda. You claim everything that goes against your side to be propaganda. You sound just like Donald Trump.

I guess the concerning fires that happened in a short period of time in South Korea is just made up. See below.

A Mercedes-Benz Fire Jolts South Korea’s E.V. Transition

The government is aggressively promoting electric cars. But a dramatic blaze in an underground lot has left some potential buyers worried about safety.

www.nytimes.com

I guess Alex Jones who supports gun ownership with no restrictions claiming that Sandy Hook was just actors making up an event is the correct way to make an argument, according to you.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Capitalism is not a competition? Tell that to the East India Company!

You're against consumer choice. We promote the freedom of consumers to choose between an ICE or a BEV. Whatever they want. If you wish to purchase a BEV today even though the electrical grid has not been upgraded and only 10% of the required number of charge stations have been built, go right ahead.

Just don't restrict others from purchasing an ICE.

Progressives like Elissa and Bart are coming around to our sensible pragmatic view.

What You Drive Is Your Call': Elissa Slotkin Runs Ad Decrying EV Mandates—Days After Voting To Keep Them in Place​

​

October 3, 2024

Michigan Democratic Senate candidate Rep. Elissa Slotkin is running a new campaign advertisement in which she boasts about owning a gas-powered vehicle and says she opposes electric vehicle mandates. Slotkin, however, voted in favor of federal EV requirements just days before releasing the ad.

"I live on a dirt road, nowhere near a charging station. So, I don't own an electric car," Slotkin narrates in the ad. "No one should tell us what to buy, and no one is going to mandate anything.

But here's the thing, if there's going to be a new generation of vehicles, I want that new generation built right here in Michigan, not China. I approve this message, because what you drive is your call, no one else's."

 

[Bartelby]

Climate science is reliable and alarming ... flood the zone with disinformation!

Renewables plus batteries are reliable ... flood the zone with disinformation!

BEVs are safe and increasingly cheap ... flood the zone with disinformation!

When all else fails get America and Europe to impose tariffs ... long live the petrol bowser!

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

You're against consumer choice. We promote the freedom of consumers to choose between an ICE or a BEV. Whatever they want. If you wish to purchase a BEV today even though the electrical grid has not been upgraded and only 10% of the required number of charge stations have been built, go right ahead.

Just don't restrict others from purchasing an ICE.

Progressives like Elissa and Bart are coming around to our sensible pragmatic view.

What You Drive Is Your Call': Elissa Slotkin Runs Ad Decrying EV Mandates—Days After Voting To Keep Them in Place​

​

October 3, 2024

Michigan Democratic Senate candidate Rep. Elissa Slotkin is running a new campaign advertisement in which she boasts about owning a gas-powered vehicle and says she opposes electric vehicle mandates. Slotkin, however, voted in favor of federal EV requirements just days before releasing the ad.

"I live on a dirt road, nowhere near a charging station. So, I don't own an electric car," Slotkin narrates in the ad. "No one should tell us what to buy, and no one is going to mandate anything.

But here's the thing, if there's going to be a new generation of vehicles, I want that new generation built right here in Michigan, not China. I approve this message, because what you drive is your call, no one else's."

The people who voted for her and put her in the government are too stupid to notice.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

Climate science is reliable and alarming ... flood the zone with disinformation!

Renewables plus batteries are reliable ... flood the zone with disinformation!

BEVs are safe and increasingly cheap ... flood the zone with disinformation!

When all else fails get America and Europe to impose tariffs ... long live the petrol bowser!

Factual information always seems like disinformation when it goes against one's fervent belief in their religion.

 

[Bartelby]

Fortunately, climate science is not religion. And fossil-fuel propaganda is not a religion either, it's politics.

Factual information always seems like disinformation when it goes against one's fervent belief in their religion.

 

[jimmy8]

Fortunately, climate science is not religion. And fossil-fuel propaganda is not a religion either, it's politics.

EV propaganda is politics. ICE cars are not 100% of pollution in the world. You should run for office, if you wear a red hat and spew lies constantly, you can make a lot of money by bilking supporters. You can sell bibles and shoes and NFT cards. Or you can start a podcast and spew lies and maybe get sued for billions of dollars.

 

[Bartelby]

BEVs are not happening in America and Europe due to an anti-China policy that has erected tariff walls. The anti-BEV propaganda is there to tell us we're not missing out. We are!

EV propaganda is politics. ICE cars are not 100% of pollution in the world. You should run for office, if you wear a red hat and spew lies constantly, you can make a lot of money by bilking supporters. You can sell bibles and shoes and NFT cards. Or you can start a podcast and spew lies and maybe get sued for billions of dollars.

 

[jimmy8]

BEVs are not happening in America and Europe due to an anti-China policy that has erected tariff walls. The anti-BEV propaganda is there to tell us we're not missing out. We are!

China's government subsidized the EV companies to build EVs. And China doesn't have the same safety standards as America and Europe. In order to make cars that would pass safety standards, the cars would cost approximately $10,000 (US) more than what they cost in China. If China stops their subsidies, the cars would cost about the same as any other car made in America or Europe. Without the tariffs, the auto industry in America and Europe would go into a huge downturn. Because the auto industry provides so many jobs and contributes so much to the economy, a huge downturn would create huge problems in unemployment, recession, homelessness, downturn of the stock market, troubles for banks, which would all contribute to a downturn to the rest of the economy. Allowing free trade and good competition is good for the world and economies. When the auto market is heavily manipulated by a large country's government so that they can wipe out all competition, that is not fair trade and competition. That is why there are antitrust laws against large companies merging - to prevent one company from wiping out all competition - without it, that one company could charge whatever price they want (after they wipe out everyone else).

 

[Bartelby]

The reality is that China will erect tariff walls against subsidised European agricultural and other products and we'll be in a lose-lose situation.

It will also choke off the supply of needed minerals to both America and Europe and slap retaliatory tariffs on America.

The Western consumer used to cheap imports will see the mother of all cost of living increases.

China's government subsidized the EV companies to build EVs. And China doesn't have the same safety standards as America and Europe. In order to make cars that would pass safety standards, the cars would cost approximately $10,000 (US) more than what they cost in China. If China stops their subsidies, the cars would cost about the same as any other car made in America or Europe. Without the tariffs, the auto industry in America and Europe would go into a huge downturn. Because the auto industry provides so many jobs and contributes so much to the economy, a huge downturn would create huge problems in unemployment, recession, homelessness, downturn of the stock market, troubles for banks, which would all contribute to a downturn to the rest of the economy. Allowing free trade and good competition is good for the world and economies. When the auto market is heavily manipulated by a large country's government so that they can wipe out all competition, that is not fair trade and competition. That is why there are antitrust laws against large companies merging - to prevent one company from wiping out all competition - without it, that one company could charge whatever price they want (after they wipe out everyone else).

 

[Crocodile]

You are a firm believer in the fossil-fuel propaganda line that electric vehicles are firecrackers on wheels.

When one uses that line of argument it’s an attempt to shut down a viewpoint with a statement that doesn’t advance the your cause or the opposing view.
The reality is that EV’s have their challenges as we saw recently in Florida and they need to come up with a solution that works. Another problem is what to do with residences who live in high rise units and want to charge their cars. Having charging units under ground below the units is possibly risky. Could they solve the problem by having the charging locations somewhere else,
On another point, one is not a fossil fuel supporter or climate denier for daring to question about the effectiveness of EV’s as a counter measure for climate change. It we are not even allowed to have a conversation and ask the question with the fear of being demonised then how do we move forward. Do we just brush everything under the carpet and pretend to blindly follow the narrative.
Information should be allowed to flow freely and various viewpoints should be given the opportunity to be presented.

 

[Crocodile]

The reality is that China will erect tariff walls against subsidised European agricultural and other products and we'll be in a lose-lose situation.

It will also choke off the supply of needed minerals to both America and Europe and slap retaliatory tariffs on America.

The Western consumer used to cheap imports will see the mother of all cost of living increases.

I think other things are happening right now in EU countries - namely ESG snd companies have been advised by globalist entities to only deal with other entities who also comply with ESG values and I believe that this will cause problems. Whether China and the BRICS aligned countries follow this agenda will be an interesting question. Lately stories are coming out that China is going into recession and may need to pivot their strategy moving forward. No doubt China has invested lots of resources into manufacturing EV’s with massive government subsidies and from this many things could happen as profit levels crash and debt levels rise. One option being implemented is Chinese companies manufacturing in other countries to counter tariffs. Alternatively it’s quite possible that legacy brands such as Ford and GM might get China to make cars for them.
Further down the track, Porsche, Toyota and Honda may bring forward their synthetic fuel program that they are developing in. South America and the motor racing and classic car industry and community are interested in this idea.