EV

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The BEV can and will be built to be within the reach of the popular classes. The next Henry Ford will be Chinese!

EVs are not within the financial reach of poor and middle class. This is a brutal assault on the standard of living of the less well off, and was roundly defeated in the recent American election.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
The BEV can and will be built to be within the reach of the popular classes. The next Henry Ford will be Chinese!
Nonsense, EVs will remain a third vehicle for the rich.

There is no need for EVs or anti-CO2 policies.
Here is a simple chart from the Smithsonian Institute which shows the lack of co-ordination between CO2 and earth temperature, not hard to see that.

Reducing CO2 would have zero effect on earth temperature.
This current period is actually relatively low in terms of temperature and CO2 levels.

The current warming rate is not significant to other periods, nor is there any evidence that human activity is causing it. Data on carbon levels of the past show that temperatures do not necessarily rise in tandem with carbon activity. Carbon emissions are also far lower today than they have been in the past. The claim that carbon concentration due to human activity has a drastic influence on global temperatures (or weather) is absolutely unfounded.

2023-11-26_14-09-58_2.jpg?itok=fI6DDMAT "

It is clear from the records above from the Smithsonian Institute that CO2 and earth temperature are anti-phasal.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Does it matter how much more rapidly when doing nothing (no efforts to reduce) will already worsen AGW? It sounds like the vast majority of climate scientists have been saying this for decades. Look to NOAA, EPA, NASA, IPCC & numerous other environmental /
meteorological-related agencies for this. Only a small % of scientific outliers are saying otherwise
I think it does matter because we are talking about trillions of tax payers money being allocated to mitigation measures and if we don’t know what impact the measures will have compared to say implementing other measures or allocating money to other areas of human need , you could collapse economies around the world. Norway just recently announced that the net zero agenda will collapse their economy. Spending money on climate change instead of wealth creation can reduce GDP levels resulting in lower standards of living m,
As far as government agencies are concerned and their corporate partners I have questionable opinion of them as they tend to say and act in line with their funding model. It’s like a scientific agency that promotes a high protein meat diet for well being and weight loss that has had it’s research and findings sponsored by the Meat and Livestock Corporation.
And you see this with climate scientists as well where a differing finding by an individual would see that individual removed from his or her job in the agency for not following the narrative. Many scientists who resign or retire from these agencies and become independent tend to express different views for which they get vilified.
I would like to know the names of the scientists who push the climate narrative and get them to explain how much the temperature will decrease as a result of net zero policy implementation. None have been forthcoming to date,
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Many climate forecasters are just guessing about the changes in temperature, and all the wild agitators are relying on guesswork.

Here is what is really happening,


"Rare polar vortex split forecast for February 2025 could bring prolonged cold to North America​

ByRishav KothariTuesday, February 4, 2025
Google News Icon Follow us on Google News
A significant cold outbreak is forecast for mid-February 2025 as a Sudden Stratospheric Warming (SSW) event splits the polar vortex, with one of its cores expected to move into North America.
startobserve polar vortex modelrun feb12025 valid feb162025

Image credit: Z. D. Lawrence (NMT)

  • A significant Sudden Stratospheric Warming (SSW) event is forecast for mid-February, potentially disrupting the polar vortex, and bringing prolonged cold outbreaks to much of the United States.
  • While North America is expected to experience a cold outbreak, the effects on Europe remain uncertain due to the polar vortex’s less direct influence in the region.

The polar vortex is a large, persistent circulation of cold air located in the stratosphere over the Arctic. It is strongest in winter and helps to contain frigid air within the polar region. When the vortex weakens or splits due to stratospheric warming, the disrupted air masses can move southward, impacting mid-latitude weather patterns."
 
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Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Here is the popular view of climate change about how climate change brings about a short hot period followed by an extended ice age.

That was the understanding in 2002-2003 when the fim was made, and the basic plot was how climate scientists are ignored by governments and the world enters helplessly into an ice age caused by high levels of CO2.

I am not joking, that was apparently the understanding at the time.

 
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taster

Rookie
Here is the popular view of climate change about how climate change brings about a short hot period followed by an extended ice age.

That was the understanding in 2002-2003 when the fim was made, and the basic plot was how climate scientists are ignored by governments and the world enters helplessly into an ice age caused by high levels of CO2.

I am not joking, that was apparently the understanding at the time.

One of the problems is how the media and even many politicians promulgate this issue. They cherry pick worse case scenarios because worse case scenarios get clicks, sell newspapers etc. They'll cite specific maverick papers or reports rather than putting forward the more complex stuff like the IPCC findings, because most of the journalists or media pushing this stuff, have never read or studied, or understood it's finding.
The IPCC science is relatively sanguine, when you look at the actual papers, and not the abridged and media cherry picked versions of the findings.

I've attached a copy a newspaper item from 2004, and it's laughable now. But think how many people might have been quite worried or shocked by the item - if taken at face value.

 
The Chinese also have that technology and nobody wants a car owned by Musk Inc.

And, of course, contemporary America thinks BEVs are the autos of the Anti-Christ.
Driverless technology is agnostic and need not be rigidly tied to your beloved CCP BEVs my dear.

Elon's robotaxi tech can be just as easily applied to America's vehicle of choice: The freedom that is the ICE vehicle.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Actually it’s mainly leftists that don’t want Tesla because their leftism always takes priority even with electric cars and climate change virtue signalling.
Off course everybody knows that cars coming out of China have far less regard for clean environments and environmental protection but this is no longer an issue for leftists: hypocrisy
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
The true environmental people rode push bikes and drove old Volvo’s and recycled and repaired old things. True leftists if today just follow their leftist puppet masters.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Will leftists also throw out their Tesla batteries around their house and solar panels backed by western interests ?
Maybe they might go back burning wood.
 
Elon and the DOGE is protected by the Constitution. The Supreme Court will teach these activist Judges a lesson.

 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Most of SCOTUS no longer separates their political preferences from their legal judgements so they may indeed support dictatorship.

Elon and the DOGE is protected by the Constitution. The Supreme Court will teach these activist Judges a lesson.

 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You say driverless technology is agnostic and then attribute freedom to a lump of metal. You're very confused!

Driverless technology is agnostic and need not be rigidly tied to your beloved CCP BEVs my dear.

Elon's robotaxi tech can be just as easily applied to America's vehicle of choice: The freedom that is the ICE vehicle.
 
Australia, America's loyal ally, gets screwed by Trump. Apparently America will remain friendless:
Tariffs wars hurt both sides. Not clear what is going on. Trump may be in a vendetta kind of mood after being jailed and shot in the head by his enemies. We may need an intervention to calm him down.
:unsure:
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Good to see America looking after its own backyard. I wish Australia would do the same thing rather than bowing to the globalists.
What Australia does instead is sell all their gas to China at heavily discounted prices and when they realise they don’t have enough at home they buy it back from China at a premium price which is lunacy.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Your betrayal of your adopted country is noted.

Good to see America looking after its own backyard. I wish Australia would do the same thing rather than bowing to the globalists.
What Australia does instead is sell all their gas to China at heavily discounted prices and when they realise they don’t have enough at home they buy it back from China at a premium price which is lunacy.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
CCP made EV’s found to be spying devices and western government departments that bought them are now told to stay quiet while driving them.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
State of the used car sector in the UK - an interesting update. What cars people are buying and what style, and colour and future taxes.
 
I had my suspicions something strange was going on, that's why I repeatedly asked same the questions, I wanted to see what response I got, and what I got confirmed my suspicions.
The evasion is really obvious.

Our favourite BEV Bart is an extremely low-mileage driver. He walks/cycles/uses public transport more than he drives. As is typical for Green Star people.
He drives less than 50 miles a week. In his trusty ICE no less. He loathes driving. Does not enjoy long romantic road trips.
Yet we are supposed to believe that such a person is a staunch BEV enthusiast. It does not add up. It is a huge Red Flag.
He is under orders to promote expensive inconvenient BEVs to bring down the economies and living standards of Western capitalist Democracies.

American ICE vehicle are a symbol of personal freedom and mobility. The freedom to fuel up at any time and and drive 3000 miles cross-country without government interference and surveillance.

It is no coincidence that BEVs are promoted and heavily subsidized by authoritarian regimes.
:unsure:

The CCP's promotion of Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) can be interpreted as a strategy to enhance state control over its population.
BEVs, due to their reliance on centralized infrastructure and digital connectivity, are particularly well-suited for authoritarian regimes seeking to monitor and restrict individual mobility.

BEVs and Authoritarian Control​

  • Surveillance Capabilities: BEVs are inherently connected devices, equipped with GPS tracking, internet connectivity, and data-sharing capabilities. In an authoritarian system like the CCP's, this technology facilitates real-time monitoring of citizens' movements, making it easier to enforce restrictions or track dissidents. Such capabilities are harder to implement with Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles, which lack similar digital integration.
  • Centralized Energy Infrastructure: BEVs depend on charging stations connected to the state-controlled power grid. The CCP can regulate access to these stations, potentially restricting travel during politically sensitive times or limiting access to certain regions. This level of control is less feasible with ICE vehicles, which rely on decentralized networks of gas stations.
  • Policy Enforcement: The CCP has aggressively promoted BEVs through subsidies and mandates while phasing out ICE vehicles. For instance, automakers are required to meet stringent quotas for EV production, with a goal of 40% of all vehicle sales being electric by 2030. Such policies not only consolidate control over transportation systems but also strengthen the CCP’s industrial dominance in EV manufacturing and battery production.
  • Travel Restrictions: The limited range of BEVs and the strategic placement of charging stations naturally restrict long-distance travel without state approval. This contrasts with ICE vehicles, which offer greater flexibility for spontaneous or long-range trips due to the widespread availability of fuel.

Comparison with American Road Freedom​

In the United States, ICE vehicles have historically symbolized personal freedom and mobility. The extensive network of gas stations and open highways allows Americans to embark on road trips without government interference. This culture of unrestricted travel stands in stark contrast to the CCP's controlled environment, where even road trips could be monitored or curtailed through BEV infrastructure.

Broader Implications​

By promoting BEVs, the CCP gains dual advantages: embedding tools for population control into daily life while claiming progress in green energy initiatives. However, given the CCP’s continued reliance on coal and environmentally harmful practices domestically and abroad, its green agenda appears more strategic than genuine. This approach reflects how technology can serve both progressive goals and authoritarian objectives under centralized governance.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This hackneyed defence of a piece of metal as freedom worked well in the fifties, but is now hopelessly out of date in a world where there are only shades of authoritarianism.

(Quoting other people's work without attribution is called stealing).

Our favourite BEV Bart is an extremely low-mileage driver. He walks/cycles/uses public transport more than he drives. As is typical for Green Star people.
He drives less than 50 miles a week. In his trusty ICE no less. He loathes driving. Does not enjoy long romantic road trips.
Yet we are supposed to believe that such a person is a staunch BEV enthusiast. It does not add up. It is a huge Red Flag.
He is under orders to promote expensive inconvenient BEVs to bring down the economies and living standards of Western capitalist Democracies.

American ICE vehicle are a symbol of personal freedom and mobility. The freedom to fuel up at any time and and drive 3000 miles cross-country without government interference and surveillance.

It is no coincidence that BEVs are promoted and heavily subsidized by authoritarian regimes.
:unsure:

The CCP's promotion of Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) can be interpreted as a strategy to enhance state control over its population.
BEVs, due to their reliance on centralized infrastructure and digital connectivity, are particularly well-suited for authoritarian regimes seeking to monitor and restrict individual mobility.

BEVs and Authoritarian Control​

  • Surveillance Capabilities: BEVs are inherently connected devices, equipped with GPS tracking, internet connectivity, and data-sharing capabilities. In an authoritarian system like the CCP's, this technology facilitates real-time monitoring of citizens' movements, making it easier to enforce restrictions or track dissidents. Such capabilities are harder to implement with Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles, which lack similar digital integration.
  • Centralized Energy Infrastructure: BEVs depend on charging stations connected to the state-controlled power grid. The CCP can regulate access to these stations, potentially restricting travel during politically sensitive times or limiting access to certain regions. This level of control is less feasible with ICE vehicles, which rely on decentralized networks of gas stations.
  • Policy Enforcement: The CCP has aggressively promoted BEVs through subsidies and mandates while phasing out ICE vehicles. For instance, automakers are required to meet stringent quotas for EV production, with a goal of 40% of all vehicle sales being electric by 2030. Such policies not only consolidate control over transportation systems but also strengthen the CCP’s industrial dominance in EV manufacturing and battery production.
  • Travel Restrictions: The limited range of BEVs and the strategic placement of charging stations naturally restrict long-distance travel without state approval. This contrasts with ICE vehicles, which offer greater flexibility for spontaneous or long-range trips due to the widespread availability of fuel.

Comparison with American Road Freedom​

In the United States, ICE vehicles have historically symbolized personal freedom and mobility. The extensive network of gas stations and open highways allows Americans to embark on road trips without government interference. This culture of unrestricted travel stands in stark contrast to the CCP's controlled environment, where even road trips could be monitored or curtailed through BEV infrastructure.

Broader Implications​

By promoting BEVs, the CCP gains dual advantages: embedding tools for population control into daily life while claiming progress in green energy initiatives. However, given the CCP’s continued reliance on coal and environmentally harmful practices domestically and abroad, its green agenda appears more strategic than genuine. This approach reflects how technology can serve both progressive goals and authoritarian objectives under centralized governance.
 
The PRC may find itself with a huge excess inventory of BEVs.
:unsure:

“Unprecedented! Even in 2020, due
to Covid-19, marriages only decreased by 12.2 per cent,” exclaimed University of Wisconsin-Madison demographer Yi Fuxian when the Ministry of Civil Affairs data was released.

Yi predicted the “political and economic ambitions” of the Chinese Communist government would be “ruined by its demographic Achilles heel.” The decline in marriage and childbirth is wreaking havoc upon economic plans that assumed the population of young workers would keep growing for many years to come.

 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The population of China will always be four times larger than America's so demographic decline is relative.

The PRC may find itself with a huge excess inventory of BEVs.
:unsure:

“Unprecedented! Even in 2020, due
to Covid-19, marriages only decreased by 12.2 per cent,” exclaimed University of Wisconsin-Madison demographer Yi Fuxian when the Ministry of Civil Affairs data was released.

Yi predicted the “political and economic ambitions” of the Chinese Communist government would be “ruined by its demographic Achilles heel.” The decline in marriage and childbirth is wreaking havoc upon economic plans that assumed the population of young workers would keep growing for many years to come.

 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
WOW - Porsche has decided to cancel making EV’s and return to ICE cars but even better they want to go back to making simpler smaller cars that people want.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Porsche's ICE autos won't be selling in China anymore, that's for sure, so "China hasn't worked for them".

America will remain an ICE backwater, so Porsche can move to Mexico and service the American market.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
So what we suspected and know for sure now is that every country outside of China cannot make an Electric Car for the same price as China using:
1. Renewable energy costs
2. Decent industrial relations laws that look after workers rights
3. Environmental protection laws, ESG and DEI legislation
4. Normal market forces and business practice without mass government interference.
What this means from a China perspective therefore:
1. China is using cheap coal and gas to manufacture everything
2. China pays their workers very little and has harsh IR laws
3. The CCP heavily subsidies their car industry to the detriment of fair market practise - which I think in the long term will not be sustainable as their economy is slowing down
4. China does not follow environmental protection laws or principles - but we knew this anyway and turned a blind eye in the past.
I think the outcome of all this is the world will wake up if they still want to drive a Camaro, Supra, M3 or Genesis, Z, GTR, Corolla and lobby to change the EV mandates.
As for private consumers we really need to lobby to stop the surveillance state which is being ushered in under the guise of climate change and bring back common sense and freedom.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
When a farrago of fact is given without a skerrick of evidence and without any references for those facts, then we are facing a farrago of lies and half-truths.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Socialist globalists don’t like tariffs because they can’t shift profits to where they want make their billions plus they would rather tax people’s income and small business so they can keep them poor.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Apparently, tariffs are freedom for today's libertarians despite the fact that they cause prices to skyrocket and stop companies and corporations from trading.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Chinese EV manufacturers not paying their suppliers on time and it appears according to the following source that they are in trouble,
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Who really cares how many days it takes for companies to pay suppliers?

And given the lack of objectivity about China why believe this propaganda?

Chinese EV manufacturers not paying their suppliers on time and it appears according to the following source that they are in trouble,
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
In the 1960’s when Australia had tariffs on imports everything was cheap and families could comfortably flourish on one income. All this scare mongering about increased prices are BS if you make your own stuff and produce plenty of it. Prices of goods and services are a product of supply and demand plus the level of demand elasticity.
Now in the age of big spending and taxing by socialist governments you have to pay to park your car at the beach and council rates have gone up by up to 90 percent to own your own home. This is not due to tariffs but due to net zero madness and bloated government interference and regulations:
Very shortly the federal government has plans to tax EV’s heavily for the distance they travel. So even though you might think that charging your car from roof top solar will give you some free power ( even though you already invested $20k for the panels and batteries plus the heavily depreciating EV6 ) they will get you with those digital cars and surveillance cameras - and the sheeple went with it for the virtue signalling of fighting climate change. People need to look at the fine print when they sign up
to things that don’t make sense.
I have never opposed the choice of buying an EV , just the model of ownership and what the government’s potential intentions are. In NZ we are taxed at around 8 cents a kilometre courtesy of Jacinta Ardern. I have been warning people about this sort of stuff for a few years and some of you have branded me a conspiracy theorist or a cooker, but I was and still am right and now things are will get worse.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The current situation involves things called tariffs, but they are really just a form of sanction against a third party unconnected to any real attempt to promote domestic industry.

And you have to pay to park your car at the beach because the demand for parking spots far outstrips their supply so elementary economics suggests that they need to be priced.
 
Here is an opportunity for the phony Green Star Trudeau to import cheap CCP BEVs for the working class.
Instead the dunderhead has decided to impose huge tariffs on both CCP BEVs and Tesla's.
Trudeau is a big fat fraud!

 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Trudeau is in the process of standing down so you'll have to shift your fake anger onto someone else.

Freeland is trying to become PM so she talks the talk now before she walks it back upon entering office.

Here is an opportunity for the phony Green Star Trudeau to import cheap CCP BEVs for the working class.
Instead the dunderhead has decided to impose huge tariffs on both CCP BEVs and Tesla's.
Trudeau is a fraud!

 
Trudeau is in the process of standing down so you'll have to shift your fake anger onto someone else.

Why in the world does the leftist Trudeau impose tariffs on CCP BEVs? To align with America? Not buying it.
:unsure:
Canada imposes tariffs on CCP battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) for several reasons:
  1. Unfair Competition: The Canadian government cites "unfair, non-market policies and practices" by China, including state subsidies and overcapacity, which give Chinese automakers a competitive edge in global markets. These practices are seen as undermining Canadian industries and workers.
  2. Protecting Domestic Industry: The tariffs aim to protect Canada's nascent EV manufacturing sector and the significant investments made to develop a domestic EV supply chain. This includes safeguarding jobs and ensuring long-term economic prosperity in the face of rising competition from low-cost Chinese EVs.
  3. Labor and Environmental Standards: Canada has criticized China's lack of rigorous labor and environmental standards, which contribute to lower production costs for Chinese automakers. The tariffs are intended to "level the playing field" for Canadian workers and businesses.
  4. Geopolitical Alignment: The move aligns with similar actions by the United States, which imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs earlier in 2024, as well as the European Union's increased tariffs on Chinese vehicles. This reflects broader geopolitical tensions and protectionist trends among Western nations.
  5. Strategic Considerations: Canada views products like batteries, semiconductors, and critical minerals as vital to its future prosperity. By imposing tariffs on Chinese BEVs, the government seeks to limit reliance on Chinese imports in these strategic sectors.

 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Biden's America, Trudeau's Canda and the EU were anti-Chinese before Trump returned to power so the Don is not even original.

Why in the world does the leftist Trudeau impose tariffs on CCP BEVs? To align with America? Not buying it.
:unsure:
Canada imposes tariffs on CCP battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) for several reasons:
  1. Unfair Competition: The Canadian government cites "unfair, non-market policies and practices" by China, including state subsidies and overcapacity, which give Chinese automakers a competitive edge in global markets. These practices are seen as undermining Canadian industries and workers.
  2. Protecting Domestic Industry: The tariffs aim to protect Canada's nascent EV manufacturing sector and the significant investments made to develop a domestic EV supply chain. This includes safeguarding jobs and ensuring long-term economic prosperity in the face of rising competition from low-cost Chinese EVs.
  3. Labor and Environmental Standards: Canada has criticized China's lack of rigorous labor and environmental standards, which contribute to lower production costs for Chinese automakers. The tariffs are intended to "level the playing field" for Canadian workers and businesses.
  4. Geopolitical Alignment: The move aligns with similar actions by the United States, which imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs earlier in 2024, as well as the European Union's increased tariffs on Chinese vehicles. This reflects broader geopolitical tensions and protectionist trends among Western nations.
  5. Strategic Considerations: Canada views products like batteries, semiconductors, and critical minerals as vital to its future prosperity. By imposing tariffs on Chinese BEVs, the government seeks to limit reliance on Chinese imports in these strategic sectors.

 
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