Evert/Navratilova: THE BAGEL WAR.

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by BTURNER, May 13, 2009.

  1. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Because I had nothing else to do with my pathetic day ( stomach cramps etc) I researched bagels. Here's the results

    Evert got a one bagel in career H to H combat against 97 players ( 97 sets)
    Martina got one bagel in career H to H combat against 96 players( 96 sets)

    Evert got multiple bagels in career H to H combat (excluding double bagel matches) adding up to 124 sets (she got three vs Bassett, 5 vs King, 4 vs Walsh etc)
    Martina got multiple bagels in career H to H combat (excluding double bagel matches) adding up to 115 sets ( she got 3 vs T. Austin, 5 vs Turnbull, 2 vs Goolagong etc)

    Evert won 51 double bagel matches. This includes 3 three setters and five players who were beaten 6-0,6-0 TWICE in the H to H. multiplying this x 2 makes for 102 sets. Grand total = 325 total sets without loosing a game

    Martina won 27 double bagel matches. This includes 3 three setters as well ( coincidence!) and the one person she beat this way in two matches. Poor girl named Redondo) .multiplying this x 2 makes for 54 sets. Grand total =265 total sets without loosing a game.

    Someone, I don't remember who in a post claimed Evert was the bagel queen. In this rivalry he is right!
     
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  2. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Here's the list of sad characters Evert beat 6-0, 6-0 more than once in career H to H. Kiyommura, Tuero, Tenny ( this same Laura Tenny double bageled Martina once!), Veermaak, and Hee Lee

    Of course for those not in the know already. Evert took 5 6-0 sets from Martina and she took 5 6-0 sets from Evert. Neither ever took a match 6-0,6-0 from the other.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
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  3. Lionheart392

    Lionheart392 Professional

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    Evert gave Navratilova a double bagel in the 1981 Amelia Island final I believe. :)
    Great posts!
     
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  4. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    1981 AMELIA ISLAND CLAY (O) F C. EVERT 6-0 6-0

    Of course you are right. I had forgotten to add that! LOL well add it to the final numbers!
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
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  5. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    I was going to mention the double bagel for Chris until I scrolled down some more and found that it was already mentioned. :lol: I find it a little strange that neither Navratilova or Evert ever managed a bagel set against even a very young Graf. But she never managed one against them either so it evens out in the end.

    Evert probably won more love sets than any other woman in the Open era with Navratilova and Graf hot on her heels I'm sure.
     
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  6. grafrules

    grafrules Banned

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    Chris and Martina didnt play Steffi for the first time until 1985 and Steffi was already pretty good that year. She ended 1985 ranked #6 in the world and as a U.S Open semifinalist.
     
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  7. CEvertFan

    CEvertFan Hall of Fame

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    Point taken and I remember now, that was the year that Graf beat Shriver in the quarters in three sets, all of them tiebreaks.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
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  8. thalivest

    thalivest Banned

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    I read that match was a turning point for Martina. Her new partner/trainer/motivator Nancy Lieberman was already disgusted with Martina's rather casual approach to fitness and training upon getting together with her, even before that match. After that match she basically asked Martina how embarassing that was, whether she wanted to keep experiencing that when she played a player of Chris's caliber, and basically told her to get her butt in gear. Boy did she ever form that point on.
     
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  9. jerriy

    jerriy Hall of Fame

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    Hey BTURNER, could you help me w/ more info on that Laurie Tenney match? (presumably it happened some time in the 70s since, as I understand the old stats, Martina's last received double bagel dates back to 1981 (versus Evert
    .
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
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  10. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

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    isn't it true that the following year, in the same tournament, martina gained revenge by drubbing chris 6-0,6-2?

    anyway, graf is the only other player i can think about who won a lot of bagel sets - most famously at the 1988 french open final, which, i believe, is the only grand slam final won by a double bagel. overall, she didn't play (and by extension, win) as many matches and tournaments as evert and navratilova (though she did win a few more slams). so i'm not expecting her numbers to be as high in terms of number of bagel sets won. but percentage-wise, i think she could be just as impressive.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
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  11. Xavier G

    Xavier G Professional

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    Chris is probably the greatest female clay courter ever and fed many people bagels in her career! Not always just on clay either. She gave Tracy Austin two in a 6-0 6-0 win in the TS Champs semis indoors (Year Ending Champs) in 1982 and won the 1974 US Clay Court title beating a Miss/Mrs Chanfreau 0 and 0 also. Martina didn't play Amelia Island in 1982 and Chris won it again that year beating Andrea Jaeger in the final. Chris had suffered one of her rare clay defeats not long before to Jaeger at Hilton Head and got revenge next time up.
     
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  12. Lionheart392

    Lionheart392 Professional

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    Bagels don't seem as common nowadays. I'm guessing because all the girls hit the ball so hard it's usually enough to bag them at least a couple of games. Or they're all so mentally fragile they can't hold onto a lead...
     
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  13. scootad.

    scootad. Semi-Pro

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    Its because the girls hit so hard but with less control overall than player like Steffi Seles Martina and Evert had. The top bashers like Serena, Sharapova, etc are likely to spray a bunch of errors in a row to allow them to lose a few games.
     
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  14. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Just correcting the factoid. That drubbing happened in 1984 three years hence not the next year. Martina had three victories on clay vs Evert out of 11 meeting. In fact the greatest disparity percentage by surfacebetween the two, is not grass or carpet but clay. All three victories were very convincing and two were in '84.
     
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  15. jerriy

    jerriy Hall of Fame

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    ^ BT, what about the Laurie Tenney match? I'm curious about any info available on that (you can estimate my curiosity by the fact that I went to the trouble of necromancing a 3 y/o dead thread ;>)
    .
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
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  16. chandler bing

    chandler bing Rookie

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    The night before that match, Martina and Nancy Lieberman were up til 6am...ah...getting to know each other better :wink:
     
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  17. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Noticed your post just last night and I'm trying for you. My problem is finding the site I got the data from three years ago. Had all of Martina's H to H by player and scores. I just went through all the names and found the bagels. Her new 'official' site is useless as a research tool.
     
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  18. nothingfails

    nothingfails Rookie

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    1984 actually.
     
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  19. thor's hammer

    thor's hammer Semi-Pro

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    Damn Chrissie was good! Amazing!
     
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  20. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Evert's forehand is really something, so deceptive
     
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  21. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    If Evert had time enough to plant her feet, there is no remotely 'safe' approach shot, no matter how deep or what the angle,or to which side, and that was true, regardless of surface. You had to keep her running, and that part was exceedingly difficult to accomplish on clay .
     
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  22. pat200

    pat200 Rookie

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    from a list of all her matches, if my eyes didn't double count one or two bagels, Steffi has handed out 245 bagels and received only 13 in her career.
     
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  23. thor's hammer

    thor's hammer Semi-Pro

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    Bud at 3:58 - "Chrissie with her bagel party face on."

    LOL. ;-)
     
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  24. KG1965

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    Amelia Island a big tournament.
    Chrissie super.
     
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  25. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    I figured that Evert would be the bagel queen, and now this excellent research shows that. Although Martina was extremely good at serving up bagels herself. With Martina it was hard to overcome her momentum when her confidence was high. Evert, on the other hand, was the biggest demoralizer of all time. Beating her was like climbing a mountain. Can you pay the price and be so mentally tough yourself to overcome her constant probing of your weaknesses?

    And then there is Evert's sheer determination to win every single point that did not exist in Martina at least until Nancy came along. Until then, Martina might see an opponent down 6-0, 4-0 and in near tears and throw her a game. Not Chris. Whatever emotion she might feel for an opponent didn't come to her consciousness until the handshake at the net.

    I remember the 1986 French semi when Hana had fell and hurt her racquet hand while defeating Steffi in the quarters. It was one of those injuries that wasn't so bad while she was playing and keeping it warm. But overnight it got much worse. It affected her doubles play and it affected her in the semis. It's the one time in Hana's career up to that point that she took the court knowing she could not win. In fact, she almost defaulted, but didn't because it was a grand slam semifinal.

    The one time that Evert showed compassion was when Hana ran wide for a backhand and stumbled and fell on the injured hand causing her to crouch in the corner for an extended period of time crying as she clutched her hand. Chris came across the net and comforted her. But as soon as Chris got back on her side of the net, her competitiveness and ruthlessness plugged back in. To her credit, I thought Hana played decently under the circumstances, but was in clear pain each time she had to hit a forehand or a forehand volley. Yet Chris won 6-1, 6-1. Chris would be the first one to console Hana even before Betty could get to her. But not while she is on one baseline and her opponent was on the other. Winning a point from Evert .... a single point was often times a small victory. That's how tough she was. The eyeliner, neat dresses, and poneytails never fooled me.
     
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  26. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    No doubt Evert was the all-time BAGEL QUEEN. Someone ought to name a bagel shop after her! : - }

    If someone posts Evert's record in the majors, you would be amazed how many sets - and matches - she won 6-0.

    Two quick Evert bagel factoids. in 1974, Evert won 16 tournaments and 100 matches. In every tournament she won, she won at least one 6-0 set. In the 7 tournaments she lost, she sometimes failed to win a 6-0 set. Of her 100 match wins, representing 196 sets won, Chris won 40 6-0 sets. That's 20% of all sets won. One out of 5.

    In 1975, Evert won 94 matches, 186 sets, 36 of which were at love (19%).

    In 1976, Evert won 12 tournaments and 75 matches. In all but two tournaments win did she win at least one 6-0 set. And she won a total of 26 sets (out of 149 played) at love.

    At the US Open, Evert won 101 matches, and 202 sets. Of the 202 sets she won, 42 were at love. That represents almost 21% of every set she won at the US Open - 19 years of playing and a fifth of EVERY set won at love. Some of her "bagel" beneficiaries were:
    Evonne Goolagong
    Monica Seles
    Billie Jean King
    Nancy Richey
    Wendy Turnbull
    Sue Barker
    Manuela Maleeva
    Bonnie Gadusek
    Natalia Zvereva
    Bettina Bunge
    Greer Stevens
    Rafaella Reggi
    Lesley Hunt
    Regina Marsikova
    Alycia Moulton
    (All of the above were either ranked at time of the US Open defeat vs Evert, or they were at one time ranked in the top 15 in the world).

    Her double bagel girls - players who Chris beat 6-0, 6-0 were:
    Glynis Coles (1976)
    Pam Whytcross (1977)
    Iris Riedel (1979)
    Kim Sands (1980)
    Sharon Walsh (1984)....who also fell to Evert 6-1,6-0 in 1977
    Regina Marsikova (1986)

    In addition to the 6 double bagels, Evert won 13 US Open matches with the loss of just one game (which included wins over Billie Jean King, Sue Barker, Greer Stevens, Lesley Hunt, Wendy Overton). Almost 19% of Evert's US Open match wins were matches in which Chris lost 1 or fewer games. Ouch!!

    Chris enacted brutal revenge against Billie Jean King at the US Open. Billie Jean was the first player to burst Cinderella Chrissie's bubble at Forest Hills, in the 1971 SF, 6-3,6-2. Only 5 games won in a major is one of Chrissie's lowest total in a loss. In the next two Evert-King US Open matches, Chris gave up a total of 3 games in 4 sets to Billie Jean!! DOUBLE OUCH!!

    Chris Evert, best (tennis) bagel manufacturer of all-time!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  27. roundiesee

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    What a great thread! Never knew Chrissie has such awesome stats! Anyway I've always rooted for her when she plays Martina, :)
     
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  28. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    Chris Evert's most brutal bagel bashing occurred in 1981. Chris won 72 matches and 143 sets that year. Of the 143 sets, Evert won 30 at love. That's 21% of all sets won were 6-0! Hardly love-ly at all for Ms. Evert to be so ruthless : - )

    Chris won six double bagel matches in 1981. 8% of her match wins that year were 6-0,6-0. Chris won 2 double bagel matches at the Swiss Open in 1981, over Jo Durie in 1R and Sandy Collins in the QF. If you think Sandy was not enough competition for Chris, Ms. Collins reached the SF of the Italian Open the week before (losing to Chris, of course), and then defeated #2 ranked Tracy Austin the week after her double bagel loss to Chris, en route to reaching the SF in the German Open. Evert lost 7 games in 5 matches at the 1981 Swiss Open.

    Chris' most famous 6-0,6-0 win occurred in 1981. In the finals of the WTA Championships. Against Martina Navratilova. That's right:

    CHRIS EVERT def. MARTINA NAVRATILOVA 6-0,6-0
     
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  29. davidjaan1982

    davidjaan1982 New User

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    It is amazing that Evert dished out Bagels to some of the top players too - Goolagong, King, Wade, Barker, Casals... Margaret Court avoided a bagel, but took some sticks (6-1) from Evert!
     
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  30. Greatgatsby

    Greatgatsby Semi-Pro

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    And the important thing to point out is this is EIGHT years after their first encounter which was 7-6, 6-3 I believe. This was a thrashing of a two-time Wimbledon winner and a former finalist at the 75 Aussie and French Opens. Granted if MN is to believe she was up late the night before but that is the reason but not an excuse. Do you think Evert ever stayed up late before a final esp against MN on grass?
     
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  31. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    From what I saw of the match, Martina was definitely not in her best mental space, but it was equally true that Chris simply could not miss a target that day. She could have drank herself into a stupor, and still hit the sidelines with her passes.
     
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  32. Boaty McBoatface

    Boaty McBoatface New User

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    LOL "up late the night before the match" :) Martina was up all night, by all accounts. I can't recall any player who stayed up all night prior to a final and went on to win.
     
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  33. DMan

    DMan Professional

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    What's perhaps most impressive about Miss Evert's bagel making ability is that she dished out DOUBLE BAGELS to her two foremost rivals, who both had H2H advantages over her. Chris Evert beat Martina Navratilova and Tracy Austin when they were both ranked in the top 8 in the world. I know Martina, Hana, and Hingis all recorded double bagel wins over top 10 players but Manuela Maleeva, Wendy Turnbull, and Monica Seles are not in the same league. But Chris was able to crush Martina when Navratilova was coming off a season ending victory at Madison Square Garden on the Avon tour, and was ranked #3 in the world when Evert blitzed her 6-0,6-0 in Amelia Island.
    Chris slaughtered Tracy in the SF of the Toyota Championships 6-0,6-0, the day after Austin scored one of the best wins of her year over Andrea Jaeger. And at the same site Evert suffered a lost to Austin.
    I doubt it will ever happen again that an elite player will beat not one but two top rivals 6-0,6-0 in an important event, while the rivals were also top ranked players and not suffering from any injuries.
     
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