Evert on clay - hitting flat

[suwanee4712]

81 US Open final, 82 US Open quarterfinal, 85 US Open final are three off the top of my head where Martina had it and plain blew it, and it was because she got tight. You could also make an argument that MN blew the FO final in 85, since Martina had three break points at five all in the third. (you could make the same argument about Evert; the match should have been over in two sets).

1981 US Open final? Probably. 1982 US Open QF? There are extinuating circumstances to that one. But how did Martina have the 1985 US Open final? She never had the lead. The closest she came was when she tied it up at a set all. She never held a service game lead nor a service break in the final set, nor in the tiebreak. She did however make a series of marvelous comebacks in that match.

Martina could be mentally fragile at times. But compared to whom? Chris Evert? Everyone is mentally fragile compared to her. BJK could make Martina shake a bit. And later Steffi did the same when she spooked Martina in 1987. Other than that, once Martina became the player she knew she could be, this wasn't a huge problem for her.

So she lost a few close matches? Who hasn't? She won a heckuva lot more close matches and came from behind to win more matches than she lost.

 

[flying24]

1981 US Open final? Probably. 1982 US Open QF? There are extinuating circumstances to that one. But how did Martina have the 1985 US Open final? She never had the lead. The closest she came was when she tied it up at a set all. She never held a service game lead nor a service break in the final set, nor in the tiebreak. She did however make a series of marvelous comebacks in that match.

Martina could be mentally fragile at times. But compared to whom? Chris Evert? Everyone is mentally fragile compared to her. BJK could make Martina shake a bit. And later Steffi did the same when she spooked Martina in 1987. Other than that, once Martina became the player she knew she could be, this wasn't a huge problem for her.

So she lost a few close matches? Who hasn't? She won a heckuva lot more close matches and came from behind to win more matches than she lost.

I agree with you. Hana was always even on in the lead in the 1985 U.S Open final. It makes no sense to say Martina blew it. Martina fought very hard to keep an on fire Hana from running away with it and nearly winning it in the end.

The 1981 U.S Open final Martina blew a bit in a way, but then again it was evenly played all through the last 2 sets and Tracy most all the time was even or ahead in those last 2 sets. Martina simply didnt mantain her level of play of the first set, while Tracy raised hers a great deal from the first set for the second and third sets. That isnt neccessarily choking, especialy as the conditions that day were horrible and made for some up and down play. Martina's dominant first set gave her no real advantage for the rest of the match as that is how tennis scoring is.

The 1982 U.S Open she caught a virus before the U.S Open, and the effects of that are what happened during her match with Shriver halfway through.

I wouldnt rate Martina over Chris, Monica, Steffi, King, or perhaps even the Williams and ASV in mental toughness all time but I would rate her easily atleast in the top 10. The choker label she is saddled with is a joke, another example of poor journalism and marketing cliche.

 

[DMan]

Back to the subject of Evert. The only a few tactical or strategic changes I would have encouraged in her game. She should have incorporated some of Connors surprise approaches off second serve return and the occasional s/v point thrown in. Chris should definitely have been more aggressive returning the second serves of Sabatini, Austin, and even the younger Graf, let alone lesser players. A lot of cheap points to be had on 30/40 points. Evert could have kept players more honest on their returns, had she threatened to put away floating returns with a volley. She sure followed her serve to the net in doubles. Why not on grass vs Martina take the net away occasionally, using her first serve to approach on. Give players something else to think about. From the ground, can't improve on perfection.

In rebuttal of my own post, Cliff Drysdale used to say something interesting about Evert. " Chris understands beter than anyone else her own limitations, and stays within them better." He meant it as a compliment, suggesting that it was a key to her success that she not try to become someone she wasn't and induce errors and internal questions of confidence. I still think a skill she had already acquired in countless doubles matches, could have been employed here and there in singles to great affect.

I think Drysdale's analysis of Evert was spot on.

Chris is a very conservative person (in more ways than one). Tennis was no exception. Being conservative doesn't mean she played a strictly defensive game. But her tactical approach to matches was very similar throughout her career. Yes, she would try and come in more against Martina or Billie Jean, to take the net away from them. But she wasn't one to just come in off anything, or suddenly rush the net. She came in on a calculating approach shot.

I found it ironic how Chris would often criticize Steffi for not coming in more. Chris should have understood better than anyone about having that internal confidence and belief about coming in, and having a certain reluctance to go outside one's comfort zone.

although I was an Evert fan, I found her match commentary to be droll, and perfectly predictable. She would always so, " she's going to win because she is ranked higher." She could never think outside the box as a commentator. And while I think she was able to exploit opponents' weaknesses, which does show adaptability, the reason she was vulnerable to s & v players throughout her career like Court, Goolagong, King, and Navratilova was that she played with a certain predictability. even net rushers would know her patterns, and could force her into errors.

 

[grafselesfan]

I think Graf was an excellent volleyer and should have come in more than she did. I dont mean being a full fledged attacker like Martina, but she failed to exploite her excellent volleying skills. Often even when she got a floater, especialy on clay and hard courts, she stayed back and continued to rally. This stubborn tactic cost her atleast 4 matches I can recall: the 86 U.S Open semifinal to Martina, the 93 Australian Open final to Monica, the 94 U.S Open final to Sanchez Vicario, the 90 Wimbledon semifinal to Garrison.

 

[DMan]

I think Graf was an excellent volleyer and should have come in more than she did. I dont mean being a full fledged attacker like Martina, but she failed to exploite her excellent volleying skills. Often even when she got a floater, especialy on clay and hard courts, she stayed back and continued to rally. This stubborn tactic cost her atleast 4 matches I can recall: the 86 U.S Open semifinal to Martina, the 93 Australian Open final to Monica, the 94 U.S Open final to Sanchez Vicario, the 90 Wimbledon semifinal to Garrison.

I don't agree with this assessment.

At the 1986 US Open, Graf lost it by a 1/4" on that match point when she went for a topspin backhand passer, and missed. Sure, there were many matches where Graf might have come in behind a booming forehand. But I don't think she lost matches necessarily due to not coming in more.

The 1994 Open final was a case of Graf's back giving out on her. Zina was too good for Steffi that day at Wimbledon in 1990.

 

[suwanee4712]

I think Drysdale's analysis of Evert was spot on.

Chris is a very conservative person (in more ways than one). Tennis was no exception. Being conservative doesn't mean she played a strictly defensive game. But her tactical approach to matches was very similar throughout her career. Yes, she would try and come in more against Martina or Billie Jean, to take the net away from them. But she wasn't one to just come in off anything, or suddenly rush the net. She came in on a calculating approach shot.

I found it ironic how Chris would often criticize Steffi for not coming in more. Chris should have understood better than anyone about having that internal confidence and belief about coming in, and having a certain reluctance to go outside one's comfort zone.

although I was an Evert fan, I found her match commentary to be droll, and perfectly predictable. She would always so, " she's going to win because she is ranked higher." She could never think outside the box as a commentator. And while I think she was able to exploit opponents' weaknesses, which does show adaptability, the reason she was vulnerable to s & v players throughout her career like Court, Goolagong, King, and Navratilova was that she played with a certain predictability. even net rushers would know her patterns, and could force her into errors.

I agree. I hate it when people say that Chris was some sort of backboard just playing the role of retriever. She was a very forceful player that left more than one opponent gasping for air and pulling her socks up. She was always probing and exploiting with those hard, flat groundstrokes.

I didn't like her commentary either. I felt that she was just way too nice. I'm sure that comes from both being a former player and also her conservative nature. Whereas Martina or BJK would call it like it is. Plus, her memory is horrible. I don't know if it's her way of being modest, or what.

And I too thought it was funny when Chris gave others advice on coming in and so forth. I used to laugh at BJK when she would poke Chris about loosening up on court and such too. But perhaps they know it's the right thing to do, but they had to trust what came natural to them. They were both top level champions after all.

 

[Rabbit]

^But, there can be no arguing that Evert's game was built on consistency. She was not like Billie Jean King or Navratilova, she wasn't going to bring the fight to her opponent. Evert's game was built on counterpunching and controlling the point through placement. While she did hit the ball as hard as anyone, she was not what I would term an offensive player in the same vein as the S/V players of her time.

I was told about just one of the drills Evert's father had her do on a routine basis. Evert was paired with a male pro on a HarTru court. He was given either the deuce or ad side of the court and Evert had to hit balls back to him. He was given the entire court to hit to. Evert had to win the point by either hitting a winner or him missing. I believe the pro told me that Evert had to win 50 points like this from each side. If she lost more than 3, then her count was reset.

He said that the single most impressive thing about the drill was when Evert lost the 4th point. She didn't show any emotion, wasn't frustrated, she just went back to the baseline and started over. Her dedication and ability to shut out failures like this was phenomenal. When something didn't go her way, she had the uncanny ability to immediately relegate it to a past event and look forward, something Navratilova struggled with.

Evert and her father also played chess to enhance her ability to concentrate. Mr. Evert really built Chris to be an immovable object. She was going to stay in a match and her opponents just plain had to beat her.

I do agree that if Evert had the upper hand, she'd dominate her opponent by controlling the center of the court and just running them to death. IMO, she and Connors had the same games. The big difference between them was the thought process that employed the game.

I can still see Evert hitting that sidespin forehand and cleanly struck backhand down the line. And yes, her forehand drop shot was a thing of beauty and was employed at just the right time(s) on clay and grass.

Great thread, BTW.

 

[Arafel]

I agree with you. Hana was always even on in the lead in the 1985 U.S Open final. It makes no sense to say Martina blew it. Martina fought very hard to keep an on fire Hana from running away with it and nearly winning it in the end.

The 1981 U.S Open final Martina blew a bit in a way, but then again it was evenly played all through the last 2 sets and Tracy most all the time was even or ahead in those last 2 sets. Martina simply didnt mantain her level of play of the first set, while Tracy raised hers a great deal from the first set for the second and third sets. That isnt neccessarily choking, especialy as the conditions that day were horrible and made for some up and down play. Martina's dominant first set gave her no real advantage for the rest of the match as that is how tennis scoring is.

The 1982 U.S Open she caught a virus before the U.S Open, and the effects of that are what happened during her match with Shriver halfway through.

I wouldnt rate Martina over Chris, Monica, Steffi, King, or perhaps even the Williams and ASV in mental toughness all time but I would rate her easily atleast in the top 10. The choker label she is saddled with is a joke, another example of poor journalism and marketing cliche.

Martina double faulted a bunch in that 81 final, including on match point in the tiebreak, and blew a couple of really easy volleys. The match against Shriver, she was up a set, 5-4, and 30-15. Whatever you want to say about the toxoplasmosis, as Shriver said after that match, if she was that sick I shouldn't have lost a game.

Ted Tinling once said of Martina that she could go from "arrogance to panic." I think Martina earned the choker label earlier in her career. For instance, there was the 76 US Open first round match she lost after a dominating first set (she ended up crying on the court and had to be helped off it, remembering her defection the year prior).

There was also the match she lost to Horvath in 83 at the French, her only loss that year.

By the end of 1981, Navratilova looked be done. She had only won two Slams, was 25, and seemed to be promise unfulfilled. Even when she first got on the tour in 73, people recognized that she could be the best ever. King in fact told her that at one of her first tournaments.

To her credit, Martina shaped up, gained a new focus, and had three of the most dominating years ever. Until that point however, she had been somewhat fragile mentally.

 

[CEvertFan]

^But, there can be no arguing that Evert's game was built on consistency. She was not like Billie Jean King or Navratilova, she wasn't going to bring the fight to her opponent. Evert's game was built on counterpunching and controlling the point through placement. While she did hit the ball as hard as anyone, she was not what I would term an offensive player in the same vein as the S/V players of her time.

I was told about just one of the drills Evert's father had her do on a routine basis. Evert was paired with a male pro on a HarTru court. He was given either the deuce or ad side of the court and Evert had to hit balls back to him. He was given the entire court to hit to. Evert had to win the point by either hitting a winner or him missing. I believe the pro told me that Evert had to win 50 points like this from each side. If she lost more than 3, then her count was reset.

He said that the single most impressive thing about the drill was when Evert lost the 4th point. She didn't show any emotion, wasn't frustrated, she just went back to the baseline and started over. Her dedication and ability to shut out failures like this was phenomenal. When something didn't go her way, she had the uncanny ability to immediately relegate it to a past event and look forward, something Navratilova struggled with.

Evert and her father also played chess to enhance her ability to concentrate. Mr. Evert really built Chris to be an immovable object. She was going to stay in a match and her opponents just plain had to beat her.

I do agree that if Evert had the upper hand, she'd dominate her opponent by controlling the center of the court and just running them to death. IMO, she and Connors had the same games. The big difference between them was the thought process that employed the game.

I can still see Evert hitting that sidespin forehand and cleanly struck backhand down the line. And yes, her forehand drop shot was a thing of beauty and was employed at just the right time(s) on clay and grass.

Great thread, BTW.

Good post.

 

[suwanee4712]

Good post.

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I always have this "prissy Chrissy" picture in my mind at Holiday Park in her little dress and the ribbon in her hair. But having that drill described to me makes me picture something else entirely. She's an awesome tennis player and person to have that kind of drive and inner strength.

I don't know if Rabbit is named for Wendy "the Rabbit" Turnbull or not. But I know I read that when Chris and Wendy practiced together, Wendy taught her the old Aussie lob/volley drill. That one sounded like a killer too.

 

[Arafel]

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I always have this "prissy Chrissy" picture in my mind at Holiday Park in her little dress and the ribbon in her hair. But having that drill described to me makes me picture something else entirely. She's an awesome tennis player and person to have that kind of drive and inner strength.

I don't know if Rabbit is named for Wendy "the Rabbit" Turnbull or not. But I know I read that when Chris and Wendy practiced together, Wendy taught her the old Aussie lob/volley drill. That one sounded like a killer too.

I have "The Rivals" and I've read it several times. BJK describes how hard it could be to practice with Chris, and how a lot of people didn't like to, because she was driven and she would get mad when they couldn't do the drill the way it was supposed to be done. BJK is quoted as saying to her, "My ground strokes aren't as good as yours! I'm trying!"

Chris was extremely focused, and while she knew she didn't have quite the same level of athleticism of Martina, she felt she was still a good athlete and people underestimated her.

 

[CEvertFan]

I have "The Rivals" and I've read it several times. BJK describes how hard it could be to practice with Chris, and how a lot of people didn't like to, because she was driven and she would get mad when they couldn't do the drill the way it was supposed to be done. BJK is quoted as saying to her, "My ground strokes aren't as good as yours! I'm trying!"

Chris was extremely focused, and while she knew she didn't have quite the same level of athleticism of Martina, she felt she was still a good athlete and people underestimated her.

She was a good athlete. She made herself into one, especially in the 80s when she got more fit. She never had the natural athleticism of Navratilova or Graf but she definitely was a legitimately good athlete.

I have "The Rivals" too. It's a good read even though I already knew most everything that was in the book.

 

[BTURNER]

"BJK describes how hard it could be to practice with Chris, and how a lot of people didn't like to, because she was driven and she would get mad when they couldn't do the drill the way it was supposed to be done. BJK is quoted as saying to her, "My ground strokes aren't as good as yours! I'm trying!"

Loved this quote. I sure have empathy for BJK. I can imagine the embarrassment and frustration trying to doing groundstrke rally drills with Evert for an hour. Its no wonder Evert did not find the match made in heaven with John Lloyd. He was notoriously unfocused and lazy.

 

[grafselesfan]

It is interesting to read about Nancy Lieberman in the book. What an interesting individual she was. Then you think of Renee Richards being part of Team Martina for awhile, what a unique assortment of characters that was.

 

[Rabbit]

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I always have this "prissy Chrissy" picture in my mind at Holiday Park in her little dress and the ribbon in her hair. But having that drill described to me makes me picture something else entirely. She's an awesome tennis player and person to have that kind of drive and inner strength.

I don't know if Rabbit is named for Wendy "the Rabbit" Turnbull or not. But I know I read that when Chris and Wendy practiced together, Wendy taught her the old Aussie lob/volley drill. That one sounded like a killer too.

Nope, not Tunbull. My dad used to slightly alter my first name to Rabbit... Later, when I began playing tennis, and even (when something isn't pulled) now, one of my better attributes on court is movement.

It is interesting to read about Nancy Lieberman in the book. What an interesting individual she was. Then you think of Renee Richards being part of Team Martina for awhile, what a unique assortment of characters that was.

Yeah, for a while, it was almost like Navratilova had the Democratic Party in tow...