Wingshellphelp
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Who would you consider to be better on grass? Evert, King or Court?
Evert's head to head on grass:
Evert vs Court 2-2
Evert vs King 4-3
Evert. Easily
Who would you consider to be better on grass? Evert, King or Court?
Evert's head to head on grass:
Evert vs Court 2-2
Evert vs King 4-3
Who would you consider to be better on grass? Evert, King or Court?
Evert's head to head on grass:
Evert vs Court 2-2
Evert vs King 4-3
Who would you consider to be better on grass? Evert, King or Court?
Evert's head to head on grass:
Evert vs Court 2-2
Evert vs King 4-3
I love Chris' record on grass. It's proof positive of her greatness on even her weakest surface. Plus it always forced her to go for her shots a little more which made for some exciting tennis to say the least.
I think that both Evert and Court are actually better players than King overall. But on grass, I'd have to go with King. Her 6 Wimbledon singles titles is an awesome feat in a time when the game was dominated by serve and volleyers. Plus I think its so impressive that on grass King could remain so competitive into her late 30's.
Past her prime, she pushed Chris in the 1978 QF, beat a young, up and coming Hana on Center Court in the 3rd round in 1979, then pushed Tracy to 3 sets in the QF. Then there is that wonderful grudge match in the 1980 Wimbledon QF where she took Martina to something like 12-10 in the 3rd.
Her win over Tracy and her 3 set semifinal clash with Chris at Wimbledon in 1982 are two treasured matches for me. She really stretched Chris that day and was fighting to the bitter end with all kinds of break point chances. And like a tigress, Chris fought them all off - and looked so lovely in white with red trim while doing it.
If you have those matches I'd REALLY be interested in getting them from you. Let me know what needs to be done in order to make that happen.
That is true. Graf and Evert never played each other in their mutual primes. Evert had all 6 of her wins over Graf from 1985-before when Evert was in her prime and Graf was not. Graf won all 8 of their matches from 1986-beyond when Evert was starting her decline and Graf was coming into her prime. So nothing to tell either way from their head to head, no advantage to Evert apparent, no advantage to Graf apparent. All complete speculation as far as head to head matchup goes.
That is unlike the Navratilova-Graf head to head though where even an aging Navratilova managed her share of wins over prime Graf, and took sets off her virtualy every meeting.
I always viewed Evert as the second best grass courter of her era virtually her entire career. Just behind King or Court at their best , or Gooolagong at her best, then Nav.at her best. Unfortunately the American public is not known for respecting and admiring consistency. She actually had fewer early round losses than ANY of these ladies on the grass courts of Australia, US open or Wimbledon. Very fine career.I love Chris' record on grass. It's proof positive of her greatness on even her weakest surface. Plus it always forced her to go for her shots a little more which made for some exciting tennis to say the least.
I think that both Evert and Court are actually better players than King overall. But on grass, I'd have to go with King. Her 6 Wimbledon singles titles is an awesome feat in a time when the game was dominated by serve and volleyers. Plus I think its so impressive that on grass King could remain so competitive into her late 30's.
Past her prime, she pushed Chris in the 1978 QF, beat a young, up and coming Hana on Center Court in the 3rd round in 1979, then pushed Tracy to 3 sets in the QF. Then there is that wonderful grudge match in the 1980 Wimbledon QF where she took Martina to something like 12-10 in the 3rd.
Her win over Tracy and her 3 set semifinal clash with Chris at Wimbledon in 1982 are two treasured matches for me. She really stretched Chris that day and was fighting to the bitter end with all kinds of break point chances. And like a tigress, Chris fought them all off - and looked so lovely in white with red trim while doing it.
I always viewed Evert as the second best grass courter of her era virtually her entire career. Just behind King or Court at their best , or Gooolagong at her best, then Nav.at her best. Unfortunately the American public is not known for respecting and admiring consistency. She actually had fewer early round losses than ANY of these ladies on the grass courts of Australia, US open or Wimbledon. Very fine career.
Come on - do you really want to deny that it is only the USA (and maybe Australia) where Graf's role as GOAT is in question??? In Europe, in India, in China, in South America there is general consensus that Graf is #1. In the USA there is not. Because they just LOVE to have one of their own on top.
I don't criticize that! But to DENY that there is a HUGE anti-Graf and pro-Seles/Navi bias in America among fans and the media is ridiculous.
It was the same with Lendl, today is the same with Henin.
They are threats!
Condi
I always viewed Evert as the second best grass courter of her era virtually her entire career. Just behind King or Court at their best , or Gooolagong at her best, then Nav.at her best. Unfortunately the American public is not known for respecting and admiring consistency. She actually had fewer early round losses than ANY of these ladies on the grass courts of Australia, US open or Wimbledon. Very fine career.
1. GRAF, 2. WILLS, 3. LENGLEN, 4. COURT 5. NAV 6. EVERT 7. CONALLY 8 SERENA WILLIAMS 9 KING, 10 BROUGH
1. GOAT list: Good list ! question why you put Nav, Evert above Graf ? What's the reasoning? I think you underestimate Moureen connolly at #10 That woman was unbeatable in virtually any slam for over 3 years! You've got below King or Williams. Just Don't agree there!
2. Clay: we are almost compatable!
3. Grass: LOL I'll admit to total stupidity for leaving Wills off mine. Don't know how I managed that. But you left off Connolly who owned ever grass tournament she entered for three years with nary the loss of a set!! How does V Williams get there and those two don't?
4. Hard: this is tricky because I don't know the records of a King or Court on hard courts because no slams were on hard courts. suspect they were better than we know! Evert has three US opens while Nav has 4 and two were beating Evert! I just was not impressed with Evert who won her last open in 82 with two times not even making the semis on the cement. Her worst showing in any slam!
Here are my lists. I hope you like them. I don't just try to take into account the majors, but they are the most important criteria that I go by. Lindsey Davenport might be the only exception because even though she won only one US Open and one AO, I consider her to be one of the finest hard court players of all time as she was extremely comfortable on that surface as well as very difficult to beat and won most of her 51 singles titles on hard courts.
Top 10 GOAT list:
1. Navratilova
2. Evert
3. Graf
4. Court
5. Wills Moody
6. Lenglen
7. King
8. Seles
9. S. Williams
10. Connolly
Top 10 Clay list:
1. Evert
2. Graf
3. Lenglen
4. Wills Moody
5. Seles
6. Court
7. Henin
8. Sanchez-Vicario
9. Connolly
10. Navratilova
Top 10 Grass list:
1. Navratilova
2. Wills Moody
3. Graf
4. Evert
5. Lenglen
6. Court
7. King
8. V. Williams
9. Goolagong
10. Lambert-Chambers
Top 10 Hard Court list:
1. Graf
2. Evert
3. Navratilova
4. Seles
5. Davenport
6. Austin
7. S. Williams
8. V. Williams
9. Hingis
10. Henin
Navratilova is #10 on clay, #1 on grass and #3 on hard courts.
Graf is #2 on clay, #3 on grass and #1 on hard courts.
Evert is #1 on clay, #4 (!) on grass and #2 on hard courts.
So Graf is better than Navratilova on two surfaces (on HC far better even). Same against Evert.
Why then is Steffi only #3 in total??
It was a brown hardcourt not clay.Well, Chris did take the 1st set off Graf in '89 when they played in the VS of Florida early in the year, which was played on clay. The score was 4-6, 6-2, 6-3 for Graf.
Grass was the one surface that I think she played better on in her later career , with added power on her serve/ groundies, and more deliberate approaches . Increased lapses that compromised her on slower surfaces were less of a problem with the shorter point. I think the big difference between her grass play reaching the finals 1982-1985, and her play in (better! IMO) 1986-1988 falling in the semis, was that she was able to dominate her share of rallies with increased power off the ground/serve. She was often overpowered 1982-1985 by Martina's forehand and put on the defense which led her to give up the short ball and hit more desperation passes. Evert controlled the rallies better matched the power better, and was keeping Martina on the run better in 1987, and 1988, so that she could get to net better. She also had better control over her topspin lob so that she could hit it offensively from further back.Evert was an excellent volleyer and had a very good overhead and was generally good above her head - specifically her high two-handed backhand shot. Watching some of her mid-late 80s matches vs. Navratilova at Wimbledon I sometimes wonder why she didn't look to take the net away from Navratilova. I mean, she did at times, but more often. Essentially come in more and earlier in the point.