Evert's Har- tru record ( 1970-1989) too good to bury.

[BTURNER]

Here is Evert's record on green clay. It only includes adult Open tournaments (I am assuming if it was clay and was held in the States or Canada it was Har Tru, anywhere else was red. If some can point out an error on type either way, please correct me) Pay close attention to the year and city. these tournaments changed surface and names. During the years the Open was on clay, some prestigious Amercan venues dropped off the calendar, only to have new less prestigious models show up in the same state. things returned to normal by 1980. From 1970-1989 a 20 year stretch, she entered 58 tournaments on green clay. She won all of them but 11, over an 18 year span. This includes 7 at Hilton head, 5 at Indianapolis, 4 at Amelia Island, 4 at fort Lauderdale, 4 at Palm Beach, 3 in Houston, 3 in St Petersburg, and being undefeated at Forest Hills on clay. There was also one Canadian Open played on clay which she won in 1974 and assorted others. Evert went from August 1973 - April of 1982 without any losses at all

Only one person ever beat her more than once on green clay, two have a a winning record on this surface. Nancy Richey beat her 3 of 5 times, twice in 1970 when Evert was 15 years old. Seles won their only clay meeting in Houston, 1989. Among those 11 losses is a lone first round loss to Denise Carter in the Station Ft Lauderdale event ( '71), two semifinal losses one to Maleeva( Hilton Head '87), and one to Jaeger (Hilton Head '82). Outside of those 3 tournaments, Evert reached the final of every single event (55 of 58) she entered in those twenty years.
that is a career win/loss record of over 96%. I'd say that shows some reasonable ability to play on this gray-green dirt.

Here are the other losses not mentioned above. Goolagong Cincinnati '73, Navratilova Amelia Island '84, Garrison Amelia Island '85, Graf Hilton Head '86,

If anyone wonders about her dominance in these matches ,you can count the number of sets she won with a matchstick or a bagel. Or you can trust me, that its a lot and it includes EVERY prestigious name in the business, many of them more than once or twice.

 

[suwanee4712]

Just another aspect of her incredible record that more than backs up her claim as the most consistent champion ever. As a fan of Andrea's, I am glad that she got the big win at Hilton Head. Same for Maleeva in 1987.

I suppose it's her Hilton Head record that impresses me the most considering the prize money and prestige of the event attracted the toughest clay court draws outside of the French and perhaps the Italian for a while.

Har Tru is probably my favorite surface to watch women of the 70's and 80's play on. I can't imagine how hard it was to beat her on it.

 

[Limpinhitter]

In my view, Chris Evert was the mentally toughest athlete, male or female, of any sport, I've ever seen.

 

[Deleted member 735320]

In my view, Chris Evert was the mentally toughest athlete, male or female, of any sport, I've ever seen.

Absolutely without a doubt

 

[BTURNER]

its interesting to note that both of her clay streaks were broken with losses on red clay, Austin and Mandlikova. Her great streak begun after a loss to Goolagong on red clay as well.

 

[PDJ]

In my view, Chris Evert was the mentally toughest athlete, male or female, of any sport, I've ever seen.

Absolutely agree. And amongst the most sporting. A class act. I can only think of Seles as coming close on both (noise a side ).

 

[MLRoy]

I'm loving this thread. Getting off the green clay for a minute -- although I hate to -- I caught most of the Wimbledon finals espn rebroadcast recently (between her & Mantina). And have watched a few youtube vids of her this week, on green clay, among other surfaces. The one technical thing that struck me was how few times she hits balls into the net. There was one really great rally I was watching on youtube against (Navratilova or Casals) someone really pushing her and Evert hit this very low forehand down the middle of the court, so low I thought it wasn't going over. That's when I realized you can count on one hand how many times she hits a ball into the net during a match. Scary. Another reason I cringe when ever she calls Navratilova or Williams the GOAT.

 

[suwanee4712]

its interesting to note that both of her clay streaks were broken with losses on red clay, Austin and Mandlikova. Her great streak begun after a loss to Goolagong on red clay as well.

I have watched so little of Tracy on red clay, but it still surprises me that it was her that ended her longest streak in Rome. I wonder how Tracy's clay court game would have developed had she been able to keep playing top level tennis throughout the 80's.

It probably surprises many that Hana was MUCH better on red clay than she was on green clay given the qualities of each surface. Besides the fact that she grew up on red clay, the relative slowness and heaviness of that surface compared to green clay would suggest that it would be her worst surface. But I always felt red clay was great for Hana's game. It forced her to be a little more patient and allowed her to take advantage of her all court prowess. The French was definitely her most consistent slam from 1979-1986 when she made or surpassed her seeding every year but 1985 (loss to Khode in the QF).

The 1983 French QF between Chris and Hana is one of my favorite womens French Open matches of the 80's.

 

[BTURNER]

Having played in 58 tournaments on a surface and having won 11 of them is a nice tidy little statistic befitting a lot of top five or top ten players. but to have won all but 11 in twenty years is breathtaking.

 

[DMan]

Here is Evert's record on green clay. It only includes adult Open tournaments (I am assuming if it was clay and was held in the States or Canada it was Har Tru, anywhere else was red. If some can point out an error on type either way, please correct me) Pay close attention to the year and city. these tournaments changed surface and names. During the years the Open was on clay, some prestigious Amercan venues dropped off the calendar, only to have new less prestigious models show up in the same state. things returned to normal by 1980. From 1970-1989 a 20 year stretch, she entered 58 tournaments on green clay. She won all of them but 11, over an 18 year span. This includes 7 at Hilton head, 5 at Indianapolis, 4 at Amelia Island, 4 at fort Lauderdale, 4 at Palm Beach, 3 in Houston, 3 in St Petersburg, and being undefeated at Forest Hills on clay. There was also one Canadian Open played on clay which she won in 1974 and assorted others. Evert went from August 1973 - April of 1982 without any losses at all

Only one person ever beat her more than once on green clay, two have a a winning record on this surface. Nancy Richey beat her 3 of 5 times, twice in 1970 when Evert was 15 years old. Seles won their only clay meeting in Houston, 1989. Among those 11 losses is a lone first round loss to Denise Carter in the Station Ft Lauderdale event ( '71), two semifinal losses one to Maleeva( Hilton Head '87), and one to Jaeger (Hilton Head '82). Outside of those 3 tournaments, Evert reached the final of every single event (55 of 58) she entered in those twenty years.
that is a career win/loss record of over 96%. I'd say that shows some reasonable ability to play on this gray-green dirt.

Here are the other losses not mentioned above. Goolagong Cincinnati '73, Navratilova Amelia Island '84, Garrison Amelia Island '85, Graf Hilton Head '86,

If anyone wonders about her dominance in these matches ,you can count the number of sets she won with a matchstick or a bagel. Or you can trust me, that its a lot and it includes EVERY prestigious name in the business, many of them more than once or twice.

Chris Evert's phenomenal clay court record will never be equalled or surpassed. NEVER! Of course she was raised on green clay, and had the perfect temperament and style to excel. In addition to her perfect ground strokes, she had the mental fortitude and competitive fire to not just win, but dominate her opponents.

I haven't seen the complete list of tournament titles, but Chris is credited with tournament victories for 4 player events, such as the World Invitational Classic in Hilton Head in the mid 1970s, and the Citizen Cup in 1982. Some of her tournament wins in 1971 and 1972 were 8 player events. I'm not dissing her record, just a mention for those more accustomed to today's tournament draws.

Two other tidbits:

Chris did NOT win the tournament at her home courts, Holiday PArk in Ft Lauderdale, in 1972. It was an amateur event, and she won her opening round match. But then defaulted in the semis due to the flu. Her friend Laurie Fleming won the tournament.

In the September 1973 Four Roses tournament in Charlotte, NC, Evert was seeded #1 and got a bye in the first round. She withdrew from the tournament (due to exhaustion) after the event was underway, and her 2nd round opponent, Eugenia Biryukova got a walkover into the QF. While not a loss, and owing to the fact she did not play a match in the tournament, her record clay court streak wasn't impacted by this result.

One other tidbit:
Billie Jean King NEVER won a clay court tournament if Chris Evert was in the draw. Margaret Court, Evonne Goolagong, Tracy Austin, Martina Navratilova, and Steffi Graf all earned clay court tournament titles beating Chris en route. But Billie Jean never did. In fact, some of the worst losses of BJ's career were against Chris on clay.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Stunning stats, thanks. I hate doing cross-gender comparisons but Evert might be even greater than Nadal on clay. Yes, she won two fewer RG titles (7 vs. 9), but her overall consistency for 20 years, as opposed to Rafa's for a 'mere' 10, means she could be considered even greater. Also, of course, she skipped RG for a few years in the 70s when she would almost certainly have won it.

 

[boredone3456]

Not many could beat Chris anywhere, especially on clay. Court beat her when she was younger, Graf when she was getting older, only Martina and Tracy could really match her blow for blow in her prime. Evonne could to a lesser degree but she was special, on any given day she could kill you or be killed by you...sometimes in alternating sets in the same match.

Chris was the tennis equivalent of a chess Grandmaster, even on grass where she had to deal with legions of S&Vers she still found ways to win or be close to winning time and time again. She probably still could have been a dark horse contender into the early 90's had she chosen to stick around because she was that good.

as for Evert vs Nadal in clay greatness...Evert at one point was something like 200-1 on clay (her 125 match streak, then another winning streak of 70-something matches after Austin snapped the first one). That alone puts her toe to toe with Rafa, add in that so many of those victories included Bagels, Breadsticks, strait set beatdowns, how many of her clay wins were straight set victories anyway? I love Rafa but in this case I might have to tip my hat in favor on the lady.

 

[BTURNER]

Chris Evert's phenomenal clay court record will never be equalled or surpassed. NEVER! Of course she was raised on green clay, and had the perfect temperament and style to excel. In addition to her perfect ground strokes, she had the mental fortitude and competitive fire to not just win, but dominate her opponents.

I haven't seen the complete list of tournament titles, but Chris is credited with tournament victories for 4 player events, such as the World Invitational Classic in Hilton Head in the mid 1970s, and the Citizen Cup in 1982. Some of her tournament wins in 1971 and 1972 were 8 player events. I'm not dissing her record, just a mention for those more accustomed to today's tournament draws.

Two other tidbits:

Chris did NOT win the tournament at her home courts, Holiday PArk in Ft Lauderdale, in 1972. It was an amateur event, and she won her opening round match. But then defaulted in the semis due to the flu. Her friend Laurie Fleming won the tournament.

In the September 1973 Four Roses tournament in Charlotte, NC, Evert was seeded #1 and got a bye in the first round. She withdrew from the tournament (due to exhaustion) after the event was underway, and her 2nd round opponent, Eugenia Biryukova got a walkover into the QF. While not a loss, and owing to the fact she did not play a match in the tournament, her record clay court streak wasn't impacted by this result.

One other tidbit:
Billie Jean King NEVER won a clay court tournament if Chris Evert was in the draw. Margaret Court, Evonne Goolagong, Tracy Austin, Martina Navratilova, and Steffi Graf all earned clay court tournament titles beating Chris en route. But Billie Jean never did. In fact, some of the worst losses of BJ's career were against Chris on clay.

"Billie Jean King NEVER won a clay court tournament if Chris Evert was in the draw. Margaret Court, Evonne Goolagong, Tracy Austin, Martina Navratilova, and Steffi Graf all earned clay court tournament titles beating Chris en route. But Billie Jean never did. In fact, some of the worst losses of BJ's career were against Chris on clay" This entire rivalry was dominated by surface, more than any other in Evert's history. throughout most of it, if you picked who would win based solely on the surface speed, you would have seemed telepathic. If the match was played on grass or carpet, BJK won ( until the late 70's) If the match was played on a moderately slow hard court, or clay, Evert won. Evert had beaten Court, Goolagong, Wade, and Navratilova on grass long before she ever beat King . Their respective and notorious tactical brains and mental strength were never enough an advantage over the other to compensate for a simple truth. King consistently volleyed better on a fast court than Evert could pass, and Evert consistently passed better on a slow court than King could put away a volley/ overhead. Even more succinctly if Evert kept King trapped in the backcourt or stuck guessing at net, King was dead meat. If King could rush Evert and make her reach, bend and scrape for her passes, she volleyed her way to victory.

 

[DMan]

"Billie Jean King NEVER won a clay court tournament if Chris Evert was in the draw. Margaret Court, Evonne Goolagong, Tracy Austin, Martina Navratilova, and Steffi Graf all earned clay court tournament titles beating Chris en route. But Billie Jean never did. In fact, some of the worst losses of BJ's career were against Chris on clay" This entire rivalry was dominated by surface, more than any other in Evert's history. throughout most of it, if you picked who would win based solely on the surface speed, you would have seemed telepathic. If the match was played on grass or carpet, BJK won ( until the late 70's) If the match was played on a moderately slow hard court, or clay, Evert won.

Chris did beat King indoors in Jan 1975 in VS California.

Evert had beaten Court, Goolagong, Wade, and Navratilova on grass long before she ever beat King

True, but..... Chris and Billie jean played 3 times on grass from 1971-1975. First was in 1971 US Open semis. Next was in 1973 Wimbledon final. BJ higher ranked and heavy favorite for those. The only time King used her abilities and tactics to score a win over Chris on grass when they could have been considered equal was 1975 Wimbledon. Chris was #1 and defending champ. Evert beat Court once on grass, and it was in the semis of 1973 Wimbledon. Chris' one win over Martina on grass (before Chris beat Billie Jean) was Chris-Martina's only grass court match at that time, 1976 Wimbledon semis.

Their respective and notorious tactical brains and mental strength were never enough an advantage over the other to compensate for a simple truth. King consistently volleyed better on a fast court than Evert could pass, and Evert consistently passed better on a slow court than King could put away a volley/ overhead. Even more succinctly if Evert kept King trapped in the backcourt or stuck guessing at net, King was dead meat. If King could rush Evert and make her reach, bend and scrape for her passes, she volleyed her way to victory.

While I don't disagree about King's volleying and tactical abilities served her best on faster courts, I also believe Chris' overall superior ground strokes and ball control were the weapons Chris could rely on to beat Billie Jean the majority of times they played, even in matches during the early to mid 70s. They didn't play a whole lot. Only twice in all of 1973, none in 1976 as Billie Jean had semi-retired from singles.
Billie Jean and Chris' very first match was on clay in St Petersburg, FL. Only time Billie Jean won a set against Chris on clay. Billie retired from the match after they split sets. After that, King barely won games vs Chris on clay. That was true for many of Chris' clay court opponents. King just never was able to motivate herself or employ any tactic or counter anything Chris did on clay.

 

[BTURNER]

Chris did beat King indoors in Jan 1975 in VS California.




True, but..... Chris and Billie jean played 3 times on grass from 1971-1975. First was in 1971 US Open semis. Next was in 1973 Wimbledon final. BJ higher ranked and heavy favorite for those. The only time King used her abilities and tactics to score a win over Chris on grass when they could have been considered equal was 1975 Wimbledon. Chris was #1 and defending champ. Evert beat Court once on grass, and it was in the semis of 1973 Wimbledon. Chris' one win over Martina on grass (before Chris beat Billie Jean) was Chris-Martina's only grass court match at that time, 1976 Wimbledon semis.



While I don't disagree about King's volleying and tactical abilities served her best on faster courts, I also believe Chris' overall superior ground strokes and ball control were the weapons Chris could rely on to beat Billie Jean the majority of times they played, even in matches during the early to mid 70s. They didn't play a whole lot. Only twice in all of 1973, none in 1976 as Billie Jean had semi-retired from singles.
Billie Jean and Chris' very first match was on clay in St Petersburg, FL. Only time Billie Jean won a set against Chris on clay. Billie retired from the match after they split sets. After that, King barely won games vs Chris on clay. That was true for many of Chris' clay court opponents. King just never was able to motivate herself or employ any tactic or counter anything Chris did on clay.

I recall King saying sometime in the late seventies/ early eighties . "I don't know how anyone beats Chris on clay" That does not suggest a lack of motivation. She was completely flummoxed. In those days, this was not a unique problem for King. It was a real problem for Serve/volleyers in general coming up with strategies to break up the Evert game, when her length made so many options low percentage ( short acute angles, drop shots etc) and her accuracy/ ball control slammed the door on the rest. Evert so often seemed to have plenty of time for a nice leisurely pass on clay.

If one had a weaker wing off the ground, (as King did) and one could not overpower Evert (and King could not) I don't know what I'd suggest either. Its a terrible match-up.
Goolagong did much better, and I suspect it was because 1. Goolagong was more creative/ intuitive in point construction and harder for Evert to anticipate. You cannot read patterns that do not exist. 2. Goolagong was more comfortable with longer rallies. 3. Goolagong was a better mover on clay. I am a great admirer in general of Goolagong's defensive skills along a baseline. She got to a hell of a lot of balls and she was very comfortable sliding. Watched a tight 1982 clay 3 setter meeting. Evert was very sober and tight-lipped indeed.

 

[DMan]

I recall King saying sometime in the late seventies/ early eighties . "I don't know how anyone beats Chris on clay" That does not suggest a lack of motivation. She was completely flummoxed. In those days, this was not a unique problem for King. It was a real problem for Serve/volleyers in general coming up with strategies to break up the Evert game, when her length made so many options low percentage ( short acute angles, drop shots etc) and her accuracy/ ball control slammed the door on the rest. Evert so often seemed to have plenty of time for a nice leisurely pass on clay.

If one had a weaker wing off the ground, (as King did) and one could not overpower Evert (and King could not) I don't know what I'd suggest either. Its a terrible match-up.
Goolagong did much better, and I suspect it was because 1. Goolagong was more creative/ intuitive in point construction and harder for Evert to anticipate. You cannot read patterns that do not exist. 2. Goolagong was more comfortable with longer rallies. 3. Goolagong was a better mover on clay. I am a great admirer in general of Goolagong's defensive skills along a baseline. She got to a hell of a lot of balls and she was very comfortable sliding. Watched a tight 1982 clay 3 setter meeting. Evert was very sober and tight-lipped indeed.

FWIW, and I'm not really quibbling, but I think BJK's comment does indicate a lack of motivation. There *was* a way to beat Chris on clay, even during her most dominating form of 1974-1978. Nancy Richey, Evonne Goolagong (who had beaten Chris on clay before) came close, as did a few others. They had patience. King did not. Plus I don't believe King truly cared about working on and developing a strategy to beat Chris on clay. Wasn't that important to her, and King didn't play a lot on clay in that timeframe. She skipped Forest Hills 1975-1976 when it was on Har-Tru, and rarely played clay events where Chris was entered.

The bigger issue is that 1982 Palm Beach Gardens Florida match with Evert and Goolagong. It was a doozy!! What makes it such an intriguing result is that Evonne had only recently returned to competition after giving birth to her 2nd child. Chris was #1 in the world, had only lost 2 clay court matches in nearly 9 years, and on Florida clay was even more dominant. But on a sweltering evening, Evonne ran down every ball, continually flummoxed Chris with her defense and her magical touch. And should have won the match! Evonne was up a break in the third. It may have been one of those 4 woman special events, but it was no exo for Miss Evert (actually Mrs. Lloyd at the time!) Chris had to steel herself to eek out that win. I know Chris had respect for Evonne's game, but I'm sure she felt like there was no way she should lost to Evonne at that stage of her career, especially since Evonne was on comeback trail.

The match is a beauty to watch! A geometry lesson, a balletic performance, a strategy session, a maestro made to work hard for a victory, all on a tennis court.

 

[PDJ]

I actually prefer the Evert/Goolagong-Cawley rivalry to Evert/Navratilova. Probably because the latter was so unpredictable and capable of sheer magical abilities that it brought out all of Evert's tactical acumen. The best of their matches are amongst the best ever of any women before or since.
There's just something so likeable about Cawley that it was hard to cheer against her even when she was playing your personal favourite. A joy.

 

[PDJ]

FWIW, and I'm not really quibbling, but I think BJK's comment does indicate a lack of motivation. There *was* a way to beat Chris on clay, even during her most dominating form of 1974-1978. Nancy Richey, Evonne Goolagong (who had beaten Chris on clay before) came close, as did a few others. They had patience. King did not. Plus I don't believe King truly cared about working on and developing a strategy to beat Chris on clay. Wasn't that important to her, and King didn't play a lot on clay in that timeframe. She skipped Forest Hills 1975-1976 when it was on Har-Tru, and rarely played clay events where Chris was entered.

The bigger issue is that 1982 Palm Beach Gardens Florida match with Evert and Goolagong. It was a doozy!! What makes it such an intriguing result is that Evonne had only recently returned to competition after giving birth to her 2nd child. Chris was #1 in the world, had only lost 2 clay court matches in nearly 9 years, and on Florida clay was even more dominant. But on a sweltering evening, Evonne ran down every ball, continually flummoxed Chris with her defense and her magical touch. And should have won the match! Evonne was up a break in the third. It may have been one of those 4 woman special events, but it was no exo for Miss Evert (actually Mrs. Lloyd at the time!) Chris had to steel herself to eek out that win. I know Chris had respect for Evonne's game, but I'm sure she felt like there was no way she should lost to Evonne at that stage of her career, especially since Evonne was on comeback trail.

The match is a beauty to watch! A geometry lesson, a balletic performance, a strategy session, a maestro made to work hard for a victory, all on a tennis court.

I'm not sure King was not so much unmotivated as genuinely flummoxed. I imagine King to be truly frustrated that she just could not work out a way to beat Evert on clay. Knowing King as we do, that must have driven her crazy!

 

[BTURNER]

FWIW, and I'm not really quibbling, but I think BJK's comment does indicate a lack of motivation. There *was* a way to beat Chris on clay, even during her most dominating form of 1974-1978. Nancy Richey, Evonne Goolagong (who had beaten Chris on clay before) came close, as did a few others. They had patience. King did not. Plus I don't believe King truly cared about working on and developing a strategy to beat Chris on clay. Wasn't that important to her, and King didn't play a lot on clay in that timeframe. She skipped Forest Hills 1975-1976 when it was on Har-Tru, and rarely played clay events where Chris was entered.

The bigger issue is that 1982 Palm Beach Gardens Florida match with Evert and Goolagong. It was a doozy!! What makes it such an intriguing result is that Evonne had only recently returned to competition after giving birth to her 2nd child. Chris was #1 in the world, had only lost 2 clay court matches in nearly 9 years, and on Florida clay was even more dominant. But on a sweltering evening, Evonne ran down every ball, continually flummoxed Chris with her defense and her magical touch. And should have won the match! Evonne was up a break in the third. It may have been one of those 4 woman special events, but it was no exo for Miss Evert (actually Mrs. Lloyd at the time!) Chris had to steel herself to eek out that win. I know Chris had respect for Evonne's game, but I'm sure she felt like there was no way she should lost to Evonne at that stage of her career, especially since Evonne was on comeback trail.

The match is a beauty to watch! A geometry lesson, a balletic performance, a strategy session, a maestro made to work hard for a victory, all on a tennis court.

After that loss to Goolagong in 1973, Evert went years with the longest single streak on any surface in either professional tour. I cannot think of any more compelling evidence that King was proven absolutely right, and those were the years to which she was referring. There was not a way that anyone found until 1979. There was a way to damn few sets. Winning was not hard to do. It was not very hard to do. It simply was not done.

I agree with PDJ. Evert was a terrible match-up for King. King had some success on clay especially on American clay and she did in fact win RG and you will find that she did play one of those US Opens and skipped the rest. She did not like clay but she knew what to do, how to slide and how to be patient enough to win matches. She had every reason to want to push down the young Evert threat every chance she had.

We do agree on that 1982 match. Goolagong evidentally had played some scratchy tennis in early rounds but she played herself into fine shape Evert had to play her very best, but really the difference in the match was one of mental fatigue IMO. Goolagongs worst tennis was in the latter stages of the third. She got impatient and made too many errors early in those rallies. Very few players got into a third set on a clay court and ever took the match from a mature Evert. She just got stronger as the match wore on. She was too exhausting. As Wade said, Evert never let you have any 'breathing room'

 

[Gmidkiff]

Chris Evert on clay was beauty . She just didn't miss, and she wasn't just lobbing the ball back in play . She was moving opponents aide to side , mixing the angles , speed, and spins of her shots . The frustration was written all over her opponents face . I really wished she wouldn't have skipped the FO 76-78; she would still be in GOAT time talk .


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[Deleted member 735320]

Chris Evert on clay was beauty . She just didn't miss, and she wasn't just lobbing the ball back in play . She was moving opponents aide to side , mixing the angles , speed, and spins of her shots . The frustration was written all over her opponents face . I really wished she wouldn't have skipped the FO 76-78; she would still be in GOAT time talk .


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While she may not be the GOAT, she is without question the most consistent player on the women's tour and probably tennis in general. I don't know how many total majors she participated in but only 4 times did she fail to reach at least the SF round. 1983 W, 3R; 1987 US, QF; 1988 French, 3R and 1989 US, QF. The six times she went Down Under she played in the final winning twice and losing to Goolagong, Navratilova(twice) and Graf.(She did win one of her Aussies beating MN on the grass with her wooden racket against the Yonex graphite of Martina.)

 

[PDJ]

While she may not be the GOAT, she is without question the most consistent player on the women's tour and probably tennis in general. I don't know how many total majors she participated in but only 4 times did she fail to reach at least the SF round. 1983 W, 3R; 1987 US, QF; 1988 French, 3R and 1989 US, QF. The six times she went Down Under she played in the final winning twice and losing to Goolagong, Navratilova(twice) and Graf.(She did win one of her Aussies beating MN on the grass with her wooden racket against the Yonex graphite of Martina.)

I think she played 56 majors, only falling 4 times before the semis you listed. Of those, Wimbledon 83 she was ill, 88 French she was carrying an injury.

 

[hoodjem]

Here are the other losses not mentioned above. Goolagong Cincinnati '73, Navratilova Amelia Island '84, Garrison Amelia Island '85, Graf Hilton Head '86,

If anyone wonders about her dominance in these matches ,you can count the number of sets she won with a matchstick or a bagel. Or you can trust me, that its a lot and it includes EVERY prestigious name in the business, many of them more than once or twice.

I remember watching that 1986 HH match. I thought it would be another walk in the park for Evert on her favorite surface. Boy was I wrong!

Steffi won in two close sets (6-4, 7-5) and never lost to Evert again. It was the beginning of her rise.

 

[Gmidkiff]

Evert played in 16 consecutive US Open semifinals ; won 7 FO with a total of 6 career losses ; 18 Wimbledon semi-finals and played in 10 finals ; made all 6 AO finals that she played . Her 4-10 record against Martina in GS finals alters her 14-6 (70%) GS final record against all other players . 8 of 14 GS finals with Martina played on grass, with 4 on clay , and 2 on hard courts . Martina had a huge advantage surface wise .


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[Gmidkiff]

I think she played 56 majors, only falling 4 times before the semis you listed. Of those, Wimbledon 83 she was ill, 88 French she was carrying an injury.

It was 56 majors, she has the record for most career finals, semi-finals , and quarterfinals . She played much fewer GS than Federer, Martina , or the Williams'.


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[PDJ]

It was 56 majors, she has the record for most career finals, semi-finals , and quarterfinals . She played much fewer GS than Federer, Martina , or the Williams'.


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She played fewer majors because quite simply the AO, and RG to a lesser degree, were not of the status they are now.
AND missing the French from 76-78 (as most top women did) was definitely to her detriment given how majors are considered the benchmark now, but they just weren't back then. BUT Evert did win all the big events that were considered more important than the AO and French.

Not sure about Navratilova or Federer but both Williams sisters have had some bad early round losses amongst all their success.

 

[PDJ]

Not many could beat Chris anywhere, especially on clay. Court beat her when she was younger, Graf when she was getting older, only Martina and Tracy could really match her blow for blow in her prime. Evonne could to a lesser degree but she was special, on any given day she could kill you or be killed by you...sometimes in alternating sets in the same match.

Chris was the tennis equivalent of a chess Grandmaster, even on grass where she had to deal with legions of S&Vers she still found ways to win or be close to winning time and time again. She probably still could have been a dark horse contender into the early 90's had she chosen to stick around because she was that good.

as for Evert vs Nadal in clay greatness...Evert at one point was something like 200-1 on clay (her 125 match streak, then another winning streak of 70-something matches after Austin snapped the first one). That alone puts her toe to toe with Rafa, add in that so many of those victories included Bagels, Breadsticks, strait set beatdowns, how many of her clay wins were straight set victories anyway? I love Rafa but in this case I might have to tip my hat in favor on the lady.

Evert also won 10 majors on clay- 7-French and 3 USOs.

 

[BTURNER]

Evert played in 16 consecutive US Open semifinals ; won 7 FO with a total of 6 career losses ; 18 Wimbledon semi-finals and played in 10 finals ; made all 6 AO finals that she played . Her 4-10 record against Martina in GS finals alters her 14-6 (70%) GS final record against all other players . 8 of 14 GS finals with Martina played on grass, with 4 on clay , and 2 on hard courts . Martina had a huge advantage surface wise .


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I know this thread is devoted to her obvious clay superiority, but I am more impressed by what she did on grass as a baseliner. Her consistent performance in majors on grass is as good as anybody's. She played in 18 Wimbledons every year from 1972-1989, 5 Aussies 1974, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1984 and 4 US Opens 1971-1974 all played on grass for a total of 27 majors. In 26 of them she was a semifinalist. In 15, more than half of the total she entered she was a grasscourt finalist. Not bad for someone without a big serve and a tentative volley for half of her career.

 

[Gmidkiff]

She played the AO in 1985, not 1980


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[BTURNER]

She played the AO in 1985, not 1980


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That's okay. you corrected my years and I corrected your Wimbledon number. She did not reach 18 semifinals at Wimbledon. She entered 18 ( one less than US Opens, where she first entered in 1971 rather than 1972) but failed to reach the 1983 semifinal.

 

[Gmidkiff]

You are correct ; she made 17 of 18 Wimbledon semifinals . The 1983 Wimbledon 3rd loss was the 1st GS she did not reach the semis.


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[DMan]

After that loss to Goolagong in 1973, Evert went years with the longest single streak on any surface in either professional tour. I cannot think of any more compelling evidence that King was proven absolutely right, and those were the years to which she was referring. There was not a way that anyone found until 1979. There was a way to damn few sets. Winning was not hard to do. It was not very hard to do. It simply was not done.

I agree with PDJ. Evert was a terrible match-up for King. King had some success on clay especially on American clay and she did in fact win RG and you will find that she did play one of those US Opens and skipped the rest. She did not like clay but she knew what to do, how to slide and how to be patient enough to win matches. She had every reason to want to push down the young Evert threat every chance she had.

We do agree on that 1982 match. Goolagong evidentally had played some scratchy tennis in early rounds but she played herself into fine shape Evert had to play her very best, but really the difference in the match was one of mental fatigue IMO. Goolagongs worst tennis was in the latter stages of the third. She got impatient and made too many errors early in those rallies. Very few players got into a third set on a clay court and ever took the match from a mature Evert. She just got stronger as the match wore on. She was too exhausting. As Wade said, Evert never let you have any 'breathing room'

Agree that perhaps mental fatigue contributed to Evonne's loss in the Palm Beach Gardens match. and Evert's steely resolve not to lose!

One quick note. The 1982 Palm Beach Gardens event where Evonne and Chris put on their last great show, was a 4 woman event. The Evert-Goolagong match was the 1R (or SF). Evert beat Jaeger in the final. But, evonne had only recently returned to tournament competition,so it was still a great effort to play no. 1 Chris so tough in a clay court event.

 

[BTURNER]

Agree that perhaps mental fatigue contributed to Evonne's loss in the Palm Beach Gardens match. and Evert's steely resolve not to lose!

One quick note. The 1982 Palm Beach Gardens event where Evonne and Chris put on their last great show, was a 4 woman event. The Evert-Goolagong match was the 1R (or SF). Evert beat Jaeger in the final. But, evonne had only recently returned to tournament competition,so it was still a great effort to play no. 1 Chris so tough in a clay court event.

Evert answered some questions about the 'new and improved' Evonne around 1980 or so in an interview that I saw. She remarked on several improvements to Goolagongs game, including a more consistent game with fewer UEs and better forehand and serve than she recalled in the past. She wasn't kidding.

 

[DMan]

Furthermore about Evert's clay court streak. Specifically related to the spring 1982 time frame. Although Chris was #1 in the world at the time, spring 1982 represented one of the worst clay court stretches for her. "Worst" being an oh so relevant term.

Goolagong nearly beating her in the Palm Beach Garden event, with Evert struggling to win 6-4 in the third. In 1981, apart from her loss to Mandlikova in the French semis, Chris barely lost games in clay court matches. The week following the Palm Beach Gardens event, Chris was uncharacteristically impatient against Andrea Jaeger, and she lost not just a set, but an entire match at the Family Circle Cup event for the first time, in the SF 6-1,1-6,6-2. While Chris rebounded in typical fashion the following week, beating Jaeger in the final 6-3,6-1, she was made to work hard in the SF by Bunge, winning 7-6,6-2. At the time, this was considered a very close clay court result for Chris. Even in triumphing without losing a set in the Italian and Swiss Opens in May, the match scores were closer than Chris was accustomed to. OK, she routed Mandlikova 6-0,6-2 in the Italian final (Hana could play just awful tennis at times), and Temesvari 6-0,6-3 int he Swiss final (it was Andea's first big match of her career).

Then in the French Open, Chris was made to work hard to beat Ruzici in the QF, and then inexplicably lost badly to Jaeger in the semis 6-3,6-1. The scoreline equals the same scoreline Martina beat Chris in her other terrible loss at Roland Garros (1984 French final). But I consider the 1982 French semi to be Chris' worst ever clay loss. Martina was at the zenith of her career in 1984, and her 6-2,6-0 demolition at Amelia Island represented Chris at the lowest point of her rivalry with Martina. Losing in a major semi to Jaeger and only winning 4 games was a shocking result, by Chris Evert's very high standards. I've never seen the match, and was always amazingly perplexed how she could lose so badly. It was Andrea's 3rd win vs Chris that year, second on clay. And also the last time Jaeger ever beat Chris.

Evert was undefeated on clay in 1983, winning the Murjani Cup, Amelia Island, German, and French Opens. She also won the 1984 Family Circle Cup before losing to Martina in the Amelia Island final, a winning streak of 31 matches on clay, the last significant clay court winning streak of her career.

 

[BTURNER]

Furthermore about Evert's clay court streak. Specifically related to the spring 1982 time frame. Although Chris was #1 in the world at the time, spring 1982 represented one of the worst clay court stretches for her. "Worst" being an oh so relevant term.

Goolagong nearly beating her in the Palm Beach Garden event, with Evert struggling to win 6-4 in the third. In 1981, apart from her loss to Mandlikova in the French semis, Chris barely lost games in clay court matches. The week following the Palm Beach Gardens event, Chris was uncharacteristically impatient against Andrea Jaeger, and she lost not just a set, but an entire match at the Family Circle Cup event for the first time, in the SF 6-1,1-6,6-2. While Chris rebounded in typical fashion the following week, beating Jaeger in the final 6-3,6-1, she was made to work hard in the SF by Bunge, winning 7-6,6-2. At the time, this was considered a very close clay court result for Chris. Even in triumphing without losing a set in the Italian and Swiss Opens in May, the match scores were closer than Chris was accustomed to. OK, she routed Mandlikova 6-0,6-2 in the Italian final (Hana could play just awful tennis at times), and Temesvari 6-0,6-3 int he Swiss final (it was Andea's first big match of her career).

Then in the French Open, Chris was made to work hard to beat Ruzici in the QF, and then inexplicably lost badly to Jaeger in the semis 6-3,6-1. The scoreline equals the same scoreline Martina beat Chris in her other terrible loss at Roland Garros (1984 French final). But I consider the 1982 French semi to be Chris' worst ever clay loss. Martina was at the zenith of her career in 1984, and her 6-2,6-0 demolition at Amelia Island represented Chris at the lowest point of her rivalry with Martina. Losing in a major semi to Jaeger and only winning 4 games was a shocking result, by Chris Evert's very high standards. I've never seen the match, and was always amazingly perplexed how she could lose so badly. It was Andrea's 3rd win vs Chris that year, second on clay. And also the last time Jaeger ever beat Chris.

Evert was undefeated on clay in 1983, winning the Murjani Cup, Amelia Island, German, and French Opens. She also won the 1984 Family Circle Cup before losing to Martina in the Amelia Island final, a winning streak of 31 matches on clay, the last significant clay court winning streak of her career.

Excellent post. I thought 84 was also the year she lost to Garrison inexplicably giving her three losses and all in straight sets. I viewed that as her worse clay year. She really began what I call her 'periodic clay loss' years post Austin where the aura of invincibility was tarnished through the end of the 1986 clay season. Only in 1984 did anyone clearly steal the crown of 'queen of clay' from Evert from 1974-1986 in Martina, and it was a one year grab. I think Andrea has the best case otherwise with two victories over her on the surface in a two year period and both decisive. Andrea only casts doubt, because she could not 'clinch the deal' in the pressurized major final, as we know Evert has been able to year after year.

 

[MLRoy]

FWIW, and I'm not really quibbling, but I think BJK's comment does indicate a lack of motivation. There *was* a way to beat Chris on clay, even during her most dominating form of 1974-1978. Nancy Richey, Evonne Goolagong (who had beaten Chris on clay before) came close, as did a few others. They had patience. King did not. Plus I don't believe King truly cared about working on and developing a strategy to beat Chris on clay. Wasn't that important to her, and King didn't play a lot on clay in that timeframe. She skipped Forest Hills 1975-1976 when it was on Har-Tru, and rarely played clay events where Chris was entered.

The bigger issue is that 1982 Palm Beach Gardens Florida match with Evert and Goolagong. It was a doozy!! What makes it such an intriguing result is that Evonne had only recently returned to competition after giving birth to her 2nd child. Chris was #1 in the world, had only lost 2 clay court matches in nearly 9 years, and on Florida clay was even more dominant. But on a sweltering evening, Evonne ran down every ball, continually flummoxed Chris with her defense and her magical touch. And should have won the match! Evonne was up a break in the third. It may have been one of those 4 woman special events, but it was no exo for Miss Evert (actually Mrs. Lloyd at the time!) Chris had to steel herself to eek out that win. I know Chris had respect for Evonne's game, but I'm sure she felt like there was no way she should lost to Evonne at that stage of her career, especially since Evonne was on comeback trail.

The match is a beauty to watch! A geometry lesson, a balletic performance, a strategy session, a maestro made to work hard for a victory, all on a tennis court.

I forget if I read it, or if she sad it on ESPN a few months ago, but Evert said she didn't start beating King until she stopped looking her in the eye on court!

That really "resonated" (ugh) with me. I thought it was a very interesting, and honest thing to say. You won't hear any top player now say something like that. That's for sure. I kind of wonder if they even think at all. But I had read King won a lot of her matches in the locker room. Psychological warfare. Black magick. I wouldn't put ANYTHING past her.

You can write it off as just "playing the ball", and ignoring the legend you're playing against. What ever works, right?

King seemed to have a lot of problems against what was a minority then, baseliners. Melville and Durr gave her a lot of problems, too.

I remember reading a King quote somewhere saying she didn't have much trouble playing against Richey. Tennis Magazine had a head-to-head chart of the top players around then. She was 8-4 against her, so I couldn't "fault" her -- pun unintended. Still, that means every 3rd time they played, Richey beat her. Then many years later a wonderful, very patient, detail-oriented man posted (Tennis Forum?) all of Richey's career results, tournament by tournament, about 18 years worth. Don't know where he got that info. Anyway, much like with Evert, Richey beat King many times early in their rivalry. She beat King the first TEN times they played. And King didn't catch up and surpass her, until the middle 1970s.
(I think that 8-4 record was when they started using a computer in 1973.)

Nancy Richey had posted there regularly for a few months, and boy did she have some really interesting insights. Stuff you'd never see in a reference book; yet, great things to know about the Golden Age of Women's Tennis. (Like: a poster asked her who hit the hardest. Her answer surprised me. If I had to guess I'd say Court or Navratilova. She wrote, I'm paraphrasing but I'm gonna put her answer in quotes because my memory is really good, and the way she wrote it made me laugh: "Chris Evert DIDN'T hit hard. But I always felt returning a ball from Maria Bueno felt like I was hitting a wall. She didn't look like she put a lot of effort in her shots but it felt that way." You gotta love the Chris Evert dig. ;p

Getting back to King, Richey also said she thought she, King, skipped a lot of clay court tourneys because she didn't want to lose; where as Richey would play all the grass tourneys.

She also told of the scourge of King and all the "California players" in those days: Dodo Cheney. That story is SO friggen funny... if you can't find it, let me know. I don't want to tell it since it's not my story. Most people shouldn't write a book. She should.

PS: I also saw Goolagong beat Evert (Boston, '78, carpet, F) in 3 sets. Amazing match, and very memorable. And I was practically an infant in '78, so that says it all. ;p

 

[MLRoy]

A little Chris Evert trivia...


I'm a fan of the underhand serve. It's sneaky, it's desperate, but it's legal. If you're really putting up a fight, but losing, why not?! It's probably the tennis version of a kick to the crotch, but, if you're fighting for your life, all's fair.

The two most famous attempts were Michael Chang against Lendl, and Hingis vs. Graf.

I've seen it twice during televised matches during the 70's. Both against Chris Evert. Name her 2 opponents.

There will be prizes.

 

[BTURNER]

A little Chris Evert trivia...


I'm a fan of the underhand serve. It's sneaky, it's desperate, but it's legal. If you're really putting up a fight, but losing, why not?! It's probably the tennis version of a kick to the crotch, but, if you're fighting for your life, all's fair.

The two most famous attempts were Michael Chang against Lendl, and Hingis vs. Graf.

I've seen it twice during televised matches during the 70's. Both against Chris Evert. Name her 2 opponents.

There will be prizes.

I have no clue, but did those serves work?

 

[BTURNER]

I forget if I read it, or if she sad it on ESPN a few months ago, but Evert said she didn't start beating King until she stopped looking her in the eye on court!

That really "resonated" (ugh) with me. I thought it was a very interesting, and honest thing to say. You won't hear any top player now say something like that. That's for sure. I kind of wonder if they even think at all. But I had read King won a lot of her matches in the locker room. Psychological warfare. Black magick. I wouldn't put ANYTHING past her.

You can write it off as just "playing the ball", and ignoring the legend you're playing against. What ever works, right?

King seemed to have a lot of problems against what was a minority then, baseliners. Melville and Durr gave her a lot of problems, too.

I remember reading a King quote somewhere saying she didn't have much trouble playing against Richey. Tennis Magazine had a head-to-head chart of the top players around then. She was 8-4 against her, so I couldn't "fault" her -- pun unintended. Still, that means every 3rd time they played, Richey beat her. Then many years later a wonderful, very patient, detail-oriented man posted (Tennis Forum?) all of Richey's career results, tournament by tournament, about 18 years worth. Don't know where he got that info. Anyway, much like with Evert, Richey beat King many times early in their rivalry. She beat King the first TEN times they played. And King didn't catch up and surpass her, until the middle 1970s.
(I think that 8-4 record was when they started using a computer in 1973.)

Nancy Richey had posted there regularly for a few months, and boy did she have some really interesting insights. Stuff you'd never see in a reference book; yet, great things to know about the Golden Age of Women's Tennis. (Like: a poster asked her who hit the hardest. Her answer surprised me. If I had to guess I'd say Court or Navratilova. She wrote, I'm paraphrasing but I'm gonna put her answer in quotes because my memory is really good, and the way she wrote it made me laugh: "Chris Evert DIDN'T hit hard. But I always felt returning a ball from Maria Bueno felt like I was hitting a wall. She didn't look like she put a lot of effort in her shots but it felt that way." You gotta love the Chris Evert dig. ;p

Getting back to King, Richey also said she thought she, King, skipped a lot of clay court tourneys because she didn't want to lose; where as Richey would play all the grass tourneys.

She also told of the scourge of King and all the "California players" in those days: Dodo Cheney. That story is SO friggen funny... if you can't find it, let me know. I don't want to tell it since it's not my story. Most people shouldn't write a book. She should.

PS: I also saw Goolagong beat Evert (Boston, '78, carpet, F) in 3 sets. Amazing match, and very memorable. And I was practically an infant in '78, so that says it all. ;p

In the early days, when nancy was playing most of her matches with Evert from the age of 16-20, Chris didn't hit hard . She kept the ball deep and was accurate and used others pace well, but she was not much of a generator until she got to be number for a few years. then she really started to crack that backhand. her forehand was not a real offensive stroke until after she left her wood racket behind.

 

[DMan]

A little Chris Evert trivia...


I'm a fan of the underhand serve. It's sneaky, it's desperate, but it's legal. If you're really putting up a fight, but losing, why not?! It's probably the tennis version of a kick to the crotch, but, if you're fighting for your life, all's fair.

The two most famous attempts were Michael Chang against Lendl, and Hingis vs. Graf.

I've seen it twice during televised matches during the 70's. Both against Chris Evert. Name her 2 opponents.

There will be prizes.

I'm going to guess Nancy Richey is one of them. Not sure, but I do know that Chris staged her famous recovery being down 7-6,5-0, 40-0 to Nancy at the 1975 US Clay Courts, she beat Nancy into submission in the 3rd set. Submission being Nancy wilted and had to retire trailing 4-2 in the 3rd. Perhaps Nancy tried an underhand serve?

 

[PDJ]

I'm going to guess Nancy Richey is one of them. Not sure, but I do know that Chris staged her famous recovery being down 7-6,5-0, 40-0 to Nancy at the 1975 US Clay Courts, she beat Nancy into submission in the 3rd set. Submission being Nancy wilted and had to retire trailing 4-2 in the 3rd. Perhaps Nancy tried an underhand serve?

Maybe Durr served under arm?

Re King, Wade said that BJK tried every trick in the book to unsettle opponents and was the Queen of Gamesmanship.
Re Richey, her politics aside, her Facebook page is fascinating. She also talked about Bueno on fb and was highly flattering. I forwarded her comments on to Maria.

 

[MLRoy]

I have no clue, but did those serves work?

Nope. Neither worked. They were both well-done, which isn't as easy as you'd think. I've done it during a match & it's tricky, because you're not playing well, probably; or, you're getting creamed, so it's kind of a pressure shot. It's also a signal to your opponent that you're desperate. But, penny for their thought, right? ;p

 

[MLRoy]

In the early days, when nancy was playing most of her matches with Evert from the age of 16-20, Chris didn't hit hard . She kept the ball deep and was accurate and used others pace well, but she was not much of a generator until she got to be number for a few years. then she really started to crack that backhand. her forehand was not a real offensive stroke until after she left her wood racket behind.

I know, BT. And Nancy knows, too, I'm sure. I remember playing with wood racquets, and you could only hit so hard with them. And, believe me, I saw her play with her great Chris Evert Wilson wood racquet (only wood racquet I ever tried that played really well; a lot better than my Dunlop Maxply & my BJK Bancroft wood racquet), and she hit the ball plenty hard enough. I think "Nanc" was just having a little catty fun.

That poor lady. She must still have nightmares playing Evert. When I was a kid, Tennis Magazine had a list of the ten best womens matches of all-time. And on the list was Evert's 6-3 6-3 win over Nanc in the 1972/73(?) Virginia Slims year ender. The guy who listed it said the quality of the rallies was a lot more impressive than the score suggests.

And, that heartbreaker of a semi at the Clay Court Champs in '75! Wouldn't *THAT* have been a great finale to Richey's career if she pulled-off that upset, reclaimed her Clay Court championship again, AND ended Chris's amazing winning streak?! If I were her, I'd really want to punch Chris in the face just for that, wouldn't you?! ;p

 

[MLRoy]

Maybe Durr served under arm?

Re King, Wade said that BJK tried every trick in the book to unsettle opponents and was the Queen of Gamesmanship.
Re Richey, her politics aside, her Facebook page is fascinating. She also talked about Bueno on fb and was highly flattering. I forwarded her comments on to Maria.

Durr is a great guess, PDJ. If I didn't know the answer, she'd be on my list of "suspects". Her serve was like a lob anyway, so an underhand serve would've made a perfect 2nd serve for her! It's kind of amazing that players didn't or couldn't take advantage of her slow serve. But, then, even Navratilova didn't exploit Chris's serve the way you'd think she would either. Dementieva, and Conchita Martinez didn't really suffer returns the way they should have as well. No free points, but otherwise, no probs. That has to be one of the biggest differences b/w the mens & womens game.

I hadn't heard/read that quote of Wade's on BJK. I love Wade. For a Brit, she's really tell it like it is, isn't she?! I'm trying to remember the remark she made about Murray that pissed him off... Any remark other than, "Oh, Andy, you're wonderful," is going to **** him off anyway. ;p

You probably know, but she and King played on the WTT New York Sets(?) for a time. Usually, Virginia played singles (and won). I used to always think what potential fireworks those 2 would have from all the head butting (or maybe butt-rubbing...? But they're both water signs (astrologically), so they probably stayed out of each other's way.

Thank you for letting me know about Richey's Facebook page. I never thought to look before, but now I def will. I know from those TennisForum posts she's an excellent writer. SO rare! And speaking of great writers, your buddy, the great "Mary Good", is another of that rare breed who should write a book. Not only because of the amazing stories she must have of The Golden Age of Womens Tennis. I did a search on her about 6 mos ago or so, and I came across an article she wrote. It was about nothing, really, but it was beautifully written. If she chose to write about something meatier, life on the tour, what ever, that would really be worth reading. I forgot you are acquainted with her, and actually hit with her. That's friggen amazing! I'm so envious. Please give her my best (or a reasonable facsimile. I'm sure that'll make her day. (RIGHT)

 

[MLRoy]

I'm going to guess Nancy Richey is one of them. Not sure, but I do know that Chris staged her famous recovery being down 7-6,5-0, 40-0 to Nancy at the 1975 US Clay Courts, she beat Nancy into submission in the 3rd set. Submission being Nancy wilted and had to retire trailing 4-2 in the 3rd. Perhaps Nancy tried an underhand serve?

You, sir, are very, very smart. Not only was the great Nancy Richey "street fighting" Chris Evert, but you got the exact match they were both getting down and dirty at.

WHOA! Very impressive, D.

If I remember exactly, Nancy was already cramping when she tried it. Makes sense. She also taught me something invaluable, that I use to this day: her calf was cramping, and I remember her pointing her foot up towards herself. And that really does work.

Remember I said there'd be prizes? You get a date with the Williams sister of your choice, you lucky, lucky guy!! JUST KIDDING.

You "prize" is this invaluable trivia: the other chick who hit an underhand serve to Evert was Junkball Julie Heldman, during the final of the Maureen Connolly Brinker Tennis Tournament in either '74 or '75. Heldman lost -3 & love, but it was actually a really good match with a lot of long rallies, a ton of moon balls -- remember those?! -- and one very good underhand serve, that, unfortunately didn't work, or help much. But I was entertained! That was the first underhand serve I had ever seen. ;p

 

[PDJ]

@MLRoy - hugely entertaining and informative posts.
A great read.

 

[DMan]

You, sir, are very, very smart. Not only was the great Nancy Richey "street fighting" Chris Evert, but you got the exact match they were both getting down and dirty at.

WHOA! Very impressive, D.

If I remember exactly, Nancy was already cramping when she tried it. Makes sense. She also taught me something invaluable, that I use to this day: her calf was cramping, and I remember her pointing her foot up towards herself. And that really does work.

Remember I said there'd be prizes? You get a date with the Williams sister of your choice, you lucky, lucky guy!! JUST KIDDING.

You "prize" is this invaluable trivia: the other chick who hit an underhand serve to Evert was Junkball Julie Heldman, during the final of the Maureen Connolly Brinker Tennis Tournament in either '74 or '75. Heldman lost -3 & love, but it was actually a really good match with a lot of long rallies, a ton of moon balls -- remember those?! -- and one very good underhand serve, that, unfortunately didn't work, or help much. But I was entertained! That was the first underhand serve I had ever seen. ;p

Thanks.

In 1974, Chris beat "Junkball Julie" as she was sort of known, in the finals of the Canadian Open, 6-0, 6-3, played on Har-Tru (was not the Mo Connolly Brinker tournament - usually held in Dallas). Julie tried everything, moonballs, lots of junk, and unbeknownst to me until now, an underhand serve. Give her credit for trying! Julie's 3 games in the finals was a pretty decent result for the week, believe it or not! Chris lost a total of 6 games in her previous 4 matches.

 

[DMan]

Chris' Har Tru record was noted TENNIS magazine's recent Clay Court GOAT article. A fine read with interesting stats and perspective. As an Evert fan, I generally agree with notions labelling her the clay court GOAT. But 2 issues I have with the piece are:
1) Evert has been the Publisher of the mag for years. While that shouldn't disqualify the mag from ever writing about her or her record, it does highlight just a wee bit of prejudice and perceived lack of objectivity when this type of piece is published. *
2) why can't there be a female clay court GOAT and a male one? Why even have a total clay court GOAT discussion, when it's comparing apples to oranges? or whatever clever male/female analogy one wants to use?

I'm also aware that the TENNIS mag piece does not come down on the side of Evert over Nadal.

* Furthermore, I don't suspect or believe for a minute Chrissie said to the magazine, "Hey, isn't it about time we had a piece on who is the clay court GOAT?" She is very proud of her record, but also one to really not toot her own horn very much.

 

[DMan]

Speaking of Chris, and her clay court GOAT-ness, here is a trivia question related to Chrissie's clay court record, during her dominant years of 1975-1978 on clay.

Beginning with the Orlando, FL event in fall 1975 and extending through the Family Circle Cup in April 1978, which player won more games vs Evert than any other player? (And to boot, the loser won the same # of games in 2 losing efforts to Miss Unbeatable on Clay).
For perspective, Evert won 34 consecutive matches during this timeframe, and never lost a set. And as a hint, she did not play Martina Navratilova on clay during this timeframe.

Second hint: I found the player who gave Evert her toughest tussle in these matches to be a total surprise.

 

[BTURNER]

Speaking of Chris, and her clay court GOAT-ness, here is a trivia question related to Chrissie's clay court record, during her dominant years of 1975-1978 on clay.

Beginning with the Orlando, FL event in fall 1975 and extending through the Family Circle Cup in April 1978, which player won more games vs Evert than any other player? (And to boot, the loser won the same # of games in 2 losing efforts to Miss Unbeatable on Clay).
For perspective, Evert won 34 consecutive matches during this timeframe, and never lost a set. And as a hint, she did not play Martina Navratilova on clay during this timeframe.

Second hint: I found the player who gave Evert her toughest tussle in these matches to be a total surprise.

Its too early for any of the baseline threats, and too late for Richey to still be a problem. I am going to guess Wendy Turnbull based on a fine first set performance at the '77 US Open 7-6,6-2. Eight games was actually a lot against Evert back then on dirt. Wendy had steady strokes and moved superbly on clay, as all Aussies did back then. In addition she covered the net well.