Excessive grunting in Tennis is what simulation is to Soccer

mxmx

Hall of Fame
- I get why people grunt in tennis as it is needed to properly exhale when hitting the ball. But as excessively as some do, is an embarrassment to the sport...they should ban it. Even as a Seles fan. I literally cannot watch tennis without either someone behind my shoulder laughing or being highly irritated.

- In soccer, probably the best game there is to watch, there is massive problems with diving or simulation being allowed. Not so much in certain countries in lets say Africa/England, which display a much more robust style of play.

Soccer/Football is complex, dramatic, strategic and extremely varied with interesting characters or styles in each team. This however gets equally negative attributes with the p a n s y attitudes as displayed by so called men. I get that they fish for free kicks or calls for red cards. But this is dishonest, yet the crowds cheer their dishonesty. Not very honourable if you ask me. Again, I dare not watch the game without people in the room having something to say about these perhaps valid things.
 
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I think most grunting in tennis is involuntary. With increasing fatigue throughout the course of the match, it gets harder to hit through the ball and the grunt is that added effort. However, it is also strategically used by some players which is wrong obviously. Still I wouldn't promote a ban of sorts, it's human tendency to grunt in tennis matches.

Soccer has probably the most pre-meditated diving and simulation in any sport. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between a real injury and a false one so that's why there is no concrete rule yet. But camera footage has a lot of times shown cases of dishonesty, there should some action against that in my opinion, if there isn't one already.
 
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mxmx

Hall of Fame
I think most grunting in tennis is involuntary. With increasing fatigue throughout the course of the match, it gets harder to hit through the ball and the grunt is that added effort. However, it is also strategically used by some players which is wrong obviously. Still I wouldn't promote a ban of sorts, it's human tendency to grunt in tennis matches.

Soccer has probably the most pre-meditated diving and simulation in any sport. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between a real injury and a false one so that's why there is no concrete rule yet. But camera footage has a lot of times shown cases of dishonesty, there should some action against that in my opinion, if there isn't one already.
Grunting: can you really handle grunting with the likes of Sharapova? Halep seems to grunt to put off her opponents. She seems nice aside from this.
 

40L0VE

Semi-Pro
Dishonest? It's downright shameless. I love football as much as anyone but I wonder how can divers look their family in the eyes after the game.
Apparently it's a cultural thing. I can't remember the player he was defending at the time but Gus Poyet said in some nations where football is the national sport tricking the referee is considered being smart as a player and not cheating.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
And petty theft is nothing compared to mass murder, guess that means it's exempt from any disapproval eh?
However by loling that I don't disapprove ball bouncing while condemning diving, it comes across as you claiming they are comparable. But I don't like either, and Djokovic has toned down with it over the years anyway while diving is as frequent as ever among many pros.
 
However by loling that I don't disapprove ball bouncing while condemning diving, it comes across as you claiming they are comparable. But I don't like either, and Djokovic has toned down with it over the years anyway while diving is as frequent as ever among many pros.
Well at least you're consistent then. Would hate to see you defend time wasting like some do, it's really super annoying if you've ever been on the other side even in rec play.
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
Well at least you're consistent then. Would hate to see you defend time wasting like some do, it's really super annoying if you've ever been on the other side even in rec play.
It’s super annoying to be in the crowd too. On TV I could entertain myself or maybe the commentators would talk, sitting around watching late 00s-early 10s Nadal vs Djokovic matches in person was horrible, even as a Nadal fan.
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Not a fan of excessive grunting or time-wasting, but neither is comparable to a blatant dive in football.

A penalty won by a shameless dive (or a hand of God) can easily flip a world cup final, or -- at least up till VAR, the era in which having arms can cost you a world cup final.

Some of the OTT whining over stuff like grunting or pre-serve rituals does say more about the frustration tolerance of the complainers.
 

mxmx

Hall of Fame
I think most grunting in tennis is involuntary. With increasing fatigue throughout the course of the match, it gets harder to hit through the ball and the grunt is that added effort. However, it is also strategically used by some players which is wrong obviously. Still I wouldn't promote a ban of sorts, it's human tendency to grunt in tennis matches.

Soccer has probably the most pre-meditated diving and simulation in any sport. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between a real injury and a false one so that's why there is no concrete rule yet. But camera footage has a lot of times shown cases of dishonesty, there should some action against that in my opinion, if there isn't one already.
Grunting: can you really handle grunting with the likes of Sharapova? Halep seems to grunt to put off her opponents. She seems nice aside from this
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
I think diving is the far worse problem to be honest, and it's also much, much more rewarded.

If I were a football player my career would undoubtedly end after losing my **** and deciding I'd rather have a deserved red card than an undeserved one
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Not a fan of excessive grunting or time-wasting, but neither is comparable to a blatant dive in football.

A penalty won by a shameless dive (or a hand of God) can easily flip a world cup final, or -- at least up till VAR, the era in which having arms can cost you a world cup final.

Some of the OTT whining over stuff like grunting or pre-serve rituals does say more about the frustration tolerance of the complainers.
See

Last 2 World Cup finals. And the last CL final.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Yes, exactly.

Which controversial thing happened in the 2014 wc again? Only thing I recall is Neuer gratuitously rugby-tackling Higauin or someone.
I'm talking the WWC final

I was like expecting nothing, ended up salty as hell

2010 was a terrible final as well. Obviously we should've gotten the red, then Puyol fouls Robben and they score when we don't get a mega obvious corner off a free kick.

It bothers me so much every time I might get close to getting interested in football again. In tennis both players can pretty much grunt and get away from it, it doesnt add much unfairness to the game imo while in football it's just disgusting. Every hard challenge is a yellow anyway so you might as well be breaking ankles day in day out.
 

mxmx

Hall of Fame
What bugs me is that in both tennis and soccer, I always have to make a case to some people as to why I watch it. But I also have to admit that some people also have a good case as to why they DON'T watch it...
 

mxmx

Hall of Fame
Saw some an old Halep match recently...she didn't grunt as much then. Why more or louder grunting recently?
 

FatHead250

Professional
Whoever doesnt understand grunting has never played the game at a reasonably high level. Grunting allows for a better control of the ball
 

ibbi

Legend
I don't know about excessive, but some of the noises people make/made (Sharapova, Azarenka) are not grunts of exertion or exhalation or even pendulum like maintenance of consistent rhythm, they're totally fake concocted noises that have to take some effort of their own just to produce :laughing:

The fact that some of these folks make these noises/grunts on the all too rare occasions when they hit a slice or a drop shot is just comical, and when you get some like certainly Serena who seem to just turn it on and off at will the argument that it is an involuntary thing they can't help totally goes out the window.

I guess the argument for that last point can be that they turn it on when they're trying doubly hard, that certainly seems to be the case with someone like Novak, but with some it doesn't seem to be that consistent.

The final thing I'd say is that some people like Halep and Muguruza became perfectly successful tennis players without making these noises, even reached the top of the game without doing so, and then suddenly seemed to develop them from out of nowhere? What's up with that?
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
A lot of it is cultural. In Eastern Europe, my guess is that there's not as much stigma against it, as in the West. So many Eastern Europeans, especially women, are grunters.

I also notice more women grunt, than men. But that's just maybe physiology related.

If you watch the early Nadal-Djokovic matches, you'd know the grunting wasn't simulated or fake. They were really going at each other with every stroke. But they didn't grunt on the dropshots.

BTW, in many martial arts, the student is taught to grunt when he strikes, because that's when he's supposed to release air from his lungs.
 

mxmx

Hall of Fame
A lot of it is cultural. In Eastern Europe, my guess is that there's not as much stigma against it, as in the West. So many Eastern Europeans, especially women, are grunters.

I also notice more women grunt, than men. But that's just maybe physiology related.

If you watch the early Nadal-Djokovic matches, you'd know the grunting wasn't simulated or fake. They were really going at each other with every stroke. But they didn't grunt on the dropshots.

BTW, in many martial arts, the student is taught to grunt when he strikes, because that's when he's supposed to release air from his lungs.
Yes, but in martial arts you do not grunt while your opponent is already on the ground. Unless it's for the camera.

Halep deliberately grunts so long that there's still noise before her opponent is about to strike the ball.

Then of course theres these funny words people scream like "oiiiiuuu". It's like coaches teach them specific words to grunt or something. It's also an brand/image thing imo.
 

FatHead250

Professional
Grunting/exhaling is needed, but not excessively. Ask Federer and Sampras.
For their brand of tennis, grunting maybe is not needed. For players like Andy Murray and Djokovic, for them to have the control they have, they do need grunting
 

mxmx

Hall of Fame
So you think Seles, Halep, Azarenka and Sharapova needs/needed their style of grunting?

Many players have similar styles who do not excessively grunt.
 
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