Explain the amount of early round 5 setters at RG

Why so many early round 5 setters at RG?

  • Total voters
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Kralingen

Kralingen

G.O.A.T.
It’s pretty much universally agreed that this is a weak era, no? At the very least it’s weaker than it was 10 years ago.

So if it’s such a weak era, how do we explain the likes of Ramos-Vinolas, Baez, Musetti, Varillas, Munar, Rune pushing top 10 players to the brink?

Where were these early upsets and 5 setters a decade ago in the strong era? Was the depth of the field really, truly better back then, as is universally agreed here?

Or is it simply a result of the fact that today’s top players minus Djokodal are that complete and utter mugs? Is it that simple of an explanation?

What is going on?
 
Standaa

Standaa

G.O.A.T.
Kralingen said:
It’s pretty much universally agreed that this is a weak era, no? At the very least it’s weaker than it was 10 years ago.

So if it’s such a weak era, how do we explain the likes of Ramos-Vinolas, Baez, Musetti, Varillas, Munar, Rune pushing top 10 players to the brink?
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You answered you own question. Because this is a weak era, top dogs aren’t that good and any loser who still lives with his mom is able to push them, therefore they aren’t as good and aren’t as dominant = weak era
 
Third Serve

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Zverev, Alcaraz, and Tsitsipas all played mediocre to outright poor in the sets they lost so a big part of it—probably the dominant factor—is their sloppiness. Don’t know about the other guys but Schwartzman is past his peak and Shapovalov is Shapovalov.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

G.O.A.T.
So were the early round opponents as good as Musetti, Baez, Varillas, ARV in early rounds in 2012 and they just lost? How do we even go about investigating something like this? @RS come back mate.
 
spottishwood

spottishwood

Hall of Fame
Absolutely horrendous top players. Bunch o' absolute MUGS. BERRETTINI is actually the most trustworthy dude out of these. He rarely loses to someone he shouldn't.
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
Depth was obviously poor to non-existent in 2012. When posters praise that year’s quality, they mean the top 10, not the top 100. There are different ways of measuring field quality. In terms of depth - by which I mean the standard of the top 100 next to the very top players - the tour has been poor most of the time since the early 2000s.
 
aldeayeah

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Faster conditions? You mean slower I hope

Between cool temps and night matches it almost feels like 2020 again
 
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T

tex123

Hall of Fame
Come on. That's a stretch to say early five setters means they are mugs. They did not lose, did they? Mussetti and Vinolas are no pushovers. They grew up on clay. It's the start of a Slam. These players have never won. Naturally they will be nervous. Let's wait till the second week before you go into mug territory, shall we?

I don't have the stats with me. Are you saying the great young Rafa Nadal or Gustavo Kuerten or Sergi Bruguera or Thomas Muster etc. were never taken to five sets in early rounds?
 
darthrafa

darthrafa

Professional
it looks same as why next gen cannot beat djoker
they only have bigger chance in BO3
those lower rank players lost gas after 3 or 4 sets and the more experienced won eventually
 
socallefty

socallefty

Legend
Are you watching the matches? It has been very windy (particularly today) and many of the top players faced early deficits because they made a lot of unforced errors before they adjusted. The conditions also seem cooler and harder to hit through - so, lesser ranked players are hanging in there more on long rallies and getting their confidence up that they can play with the big boys. Also, the cooler conditions seem to be making it easier to hit deep returns and break serve more often. I give a lot of credit to Zverev, Tsitsipas and Alcaraz for hanging in there and fighting through two-set deficits and/or match points. The two old veterans Nadal and Djokovic seem to be using their experience well to win long deuce games early and the turn on the pressure after.

It might be perfect for Rafa if these conditions continue as he handles wind very well (like FO2019) and he did great in cool conditions when the FO was played in the Fall in 2020. While the bounce of his shots is affected, no one can hit through even his old legs if the temperature is cool. Not good for Djokovic who does not like wind anywhere and could not hit through Rafa in the FO2020 final suffering a bagel in the straight set shellacking.
 
aldeayeah

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
socallefty said:
Are you watching the matches? It has been very windy (particularly today) and many of the top players faced early deficits because they made a lot of unforced errors before they adjusted. The conditions also seem cooler and harder to hit through - so, lesser ranked players are hanging in there more on long rallies and getting their confidence up that they can play with the big boys. Also, the cooler conditions seem to be making it easier to hit deep returns and break serve more often. I give a lot of credit to Zverev, Tsitsipas and Alcaraz for hanging in there and fighting through two-set deficits and/or match points.

It might be perfect for Rafa if these conditions continue as he handles wind very well (like FO2019) and he did great in cool conditions when the FO was played in the Fall in 2020. Not good for Djokovic who does not like wind anywhere and could not hit through Rafa in the FO2020 final suffering a bagel in the straight set shellacking.
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Low temps (7/17°C) are expected for the top half QF match day, and Djokodal is likely to be a night match, so expect molasses conditions.

This was traditionally thought to help Djokovic, as it turns the match into an attrition game and makes Rafa's bread and butter CCFH and kick serve much less of a weapon, but as 2020 showed, it could go either way. I expect a grueling match.
 
socallefty

socallefty

Legend
aldeayeah said:
Low temps (7/17°C) are expected for the top half QF match day, and Djokodal is likely to be a night match, so expect molasses conditions.

This was traditionally thought to help Djokovic as it turns the match into an attrition game and makes Rafa bread and butter CCFH much less of a weapon, but as 2020 showed, it could go either way. I expect a grueling match.
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I guess we can expect the commentators to call out - Down goes Djokovic. Down goes Djokovic. Down goes Djokovic.

 
aldeayeah

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Another 2020 throwback/indicator of low speed: everyone's dropshotting like crazy, particularly on night matches (Nadal yesterday, Mutsipas the day before, Gaston has made R3... funnily enough yesterday Alcaraz didn't use much the dropper because ARV neutralized his FH so well)

there's a potential Rune - Gaston 4R that IMO is likely to be a popcorn match
 
Rafa4LifeEver

Rafa4LifeEver

Legend
Kralingen said:
It’s pretty much universally agreed that this is a weak era, no? At the very least it’s weaker than it was 10 years ago.

So if it’s such a weak era, how do we explain the likes of Ramos-Vinolas, Baez, Musetti, Varillas, Munar, Rune pushing top 10 players to the brink?

Where were these early upsets and 5 setters a decade ago in the strong era? Was the depth of the field really, truly better back then, as is universally agreed here?

Or is it simply a result of the fact that today’s top players minus Djokodal are that complete and utter mugs? Is it that simple of an explanation?

What is going on?
Click to expand...
Top8 playing like top28
 
WarriorRafa

WarriorRafa

Professional
aldeayeah said:
Low temps (7/17°C) are expected for the top half QF match day, and Djokodal is likely to be a night match, so expect molasses conditions.

This was traditionally thought to help Djokovic, as it turns the match into an attrition game and makes Rafa's bread and butter CCFH and kick serve much less of a weapon, but as 2020 showed, it could go either way. I expect a grueling match.
Click to expand...
2020 was under the roof wasn't it? So maybe the night time didn't matter much. Last year was outdoor night and Djoko won. I think indoors> outdoor night for Rafa
 
TheNachoMan

TheNachoMan

Legend
There’s not much separating a journeyman like Ramos with top players like Zverev, Sissy and Alcaraz. At least at slam level
 
RF-18

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Cause it's not a weak era. People are living from memories of the past. Every tournament these days we are seeing stacked draws with many good players. We need to stop the myth of a weak era.
 
Russeljones

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
It's a horrible dichotomy. People who hate clay are forced to play it even longer in front of more people who hate clay. It's awful.
 
B

Bpob28

New User
I think it’s a blend of low ranked players playing amazingly and top players not thinking that they could be beat and therefore not using their high level early in the match. But let’s not forget that Baez just won a title on clay fee weeks ago and that Musetti just had his first year on tour where he did take Novak to 5 sets and just beat FAA on clay couple weeks ago, so they are good players
 
UnderratedSlam

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
If anything, Djokovic is having an EASIER time in the early rounds than ever before.

Even this semi-broken version of Nadal is cutting through the competition like butter.

As for the others, they are mostly unstable, inconsistent, lacking the killer instinct, perhaps struggling a bit with fitness - or motivation. Who knows.

Fact is that the favourites are through. Zverev, Alcatraz and Citybus all came through, so we are likely to have a "star-studded" QFs.
 
Sampras-Bruguera 1993

Sampras-Bruguera 1993

Hall of Fame
Inconsistent players with inconsistent brain power. It’s one thing to go long matches in the early rounds 30-40 years ago as the seeding system was much tougher on a top guy because of multiple specialist littered in the draws. There’s really no excuse for top players to be going long today with country club talent however
 
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