Falling apart - Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

[Sometennispun]

I've been getting pretty ill lately, all tests come back negative and CFS is what I'm battling day to day. Given up on comp but still try to hit socially. Moved to a part time job working from home 19 hrs a week but even that is a bit much. I need to nap in the middle of each work day to get through.

Lately I've been feeling quite weak and have some injuries and pain building up and just generally feel like my life is slipping away as I seem to be getting worse.

I guess I don't know what my question is, does anyone have any direct experience? Something to give me hope at least. The prognosis for anyone who has cfs and had every other possible cause eliminated is very poor. I'm only mid 30's

 

[Nostradamus]

See a specialist. See neurologist first.

 

[Sometennispun]

You name it I've seen it. The medical system has no answers for CFS

 

[GabeT]

What do the doctors say? What do they recommend?

 

[Soul]

Yeah, chronic fatigue is a problem of mine. It's a common problem to have for those with IBD (stomach problems such as colitis, of Crohns. I've seen it written that the fatigue can be just as problematic as the stomach issues for some.)

For hope, for me, I do have periods where I experience lots of energy and feel good all over. Here of late I'm experimenting with my diet, avoiding wheat, cheese, and all commercially raised animals meats. I'm only eating wild caught fish and grass fed beef for meats. I'm eating lots of rice, fruits and vegetables. As a result the stomach is healthier and my energy levels have improved nicely. With a little luck I'm hoping the diet will have me feeling energetic in a few months.

 

[RogueFLIP]

I've been getting pretty ill lately, all tests come back negative and CFS is what I'm battling day to day. Given up on comp but still try to hit socially. Moved to a part time job working from home 19 hrs a week but even that is a bit much. I need to nap in the middle of each work day to get through.

Lately I've been feeling quite weak and have some injuries and pain building up and just generally feel like my life is slipping away as I seem to be getting worse.

I guess I don't know what my question is, does anyone have any direct experience? Something to give me hope at least. The prognosis for anyone who has cfs and had every other possible cause eliminated is very poor. I'm only mid 30's

Sorry to hear about your situation. The short of it is my average patient is someone with exactly your story. Do I help every person that walks through the door? No, of course not. Is the form of bodywork that I do (John Barnes Myofascial Release - "MFR") some miracle cure? Absolutely not.

But I have successfully helped many people in your situation lessen or eliminate their pain, improve their function and regain their lives again.

I wouldn't have decided to stay in an MFR clinic these last 17 years after working the first 5 years of my physical therapy career in a rehab/outpatient orthopedic setting if I didn't feel like the MFR didn't make a difference in people's lives. I'm not saying that MFR is the route you should take either, just trying to make you aware of this modality.

Fascia and Myofascial Release can be pretty controversial so I'll let you do your own reading on it and if you have specific questions about how I treat folks like yourself I can answer that.

Good luck.

 

[zipplock]

You name it I've seen it. The medical system has no answers for CFS

Anything labelled a "syndrome" means it is a "catch all" bucket for something they have no answer/diagnosis for. I would suggest visiting someone trained in Functional Medicine. They don't just try to fix symptoms.

 

[zipplock]

Yeah, chronic fatigue is a problem of mine. It's a common problem to have for those with IBD (stomach problems such as colitis, of Crohns. I've seen it written that the fatigue can be just as problematic as the stomach issues for some.)

For hope, for me, I do have periods where I experience lots of energy and feel good all over. Here of late I'm experimenting with my diet, avoiding wheat, cheese, and all commercially raised animals meats. I'm only eating wild caught fish and grass fed beef for meats. I'm eating lots of rice, fruits and vegetables. As a result the stomach is healthier and my energy levels have improved nicely. With a little luck I'm hoping the diet will have me feeling energetic in a few months.

Hippocrates stated that "the gut is the body's second brain". There is so much interconnectivity between gut health and the body's inflammatory response. This is why I recommend someone trained in Functional Medicine. They examine this connectivity to find the cause of the symptoms, not just eliminate symptoms.

 

[Harry_Wild]

I've been getting pretty ill lately, all tests come back negative and CFS is what I'm battling day to day. Given up on comp but still try to hit socially. Moved to a part time job working from home 19 hrs a week but even that is a bit much. I need to nap in the middle of each work day to get through.

Lately I've been feeling quite weak and have some injuries and pain building up and just generally feel like my life is slipping away as I seem to be getting worse.

I guess I don't know what my question is, does anyone have any direct experience? Something to give me hope at least. The prognosis for anyone who has cfs and had every other possible cause eliminated is very poor. I'm only mid 30's

Depression? Get alot of sex! Legal or not! Bring you out of the depression you seen to be in. A lot of sex surrogates/therapists are pretty attractive looking and if you can get it as a medical condition, you are set for life. Otherwise go visit a brothel. Do not go with streetwalker or pimps. Unsafe!

Othwerwise, if you are married, explain this to your spouse and maybe she will help but I would count on it however; since you are already depressed. LOL!

 

[Robert F]

CFS can be extremely frustrating. As other stated it is unclear exactly what it is. Is it its own syndrome? Is it a common symptom of other illnesses that occur when the body is burnt out by the cause?
Many rheumatological, neurological, gastrointestinal and psychiatric disorders can struggles with severe fatigue.

With whatever treatment you pursue, make sure you ask all your questions and understand the expectation of treatment and the cost of treatment meaning possible side-effects, alternatives, monetary costs and how long it should take for you to get better.

I know that after trying several things and nothing is getting better it can be frustrating and so people start trying odd or less proven treatment. I think that is OK as long as the person knows what they are getting into.

In general you want to follow evidence based medicine first and when that fails then consider treatments that don't have as much evidence but have low risk and then when that doesn't work then consider higher risk treatments with low evidence.

Ziplock mentioned Functional Medicine. Just be cautious because a lot of them don't follow science or evidenced based medicine and try to impress patients with the failures of modern medicine to show why they are better. They often have treatments that are not covered by insurance and line the pockets of the practitioner. A general rule of thumb is that if I have to buy something from the practitioner outside of their expertise something might be awry. If the clinician is selling, not recommending, supplements or devices, I get suspicious. There are exceptions but be cautious.

Were you a person that used to exercise like crazy? Sometimes, the answer is sleep regulation/reduced exercise/increased nutrition. Also understanding how your diet effects your mood and energy can be helpful too.
What are your stress levels like? Positive and negative.

 

[Slowtwitcher]

Diferencial diagnosis: depression/anxiety.

 

[Soul]

Hippocrates stated that "the gut is the body's second brain". There is so much interconnectivity between gut health and the body's inflammatory response. This is why I recommend someone trained in Functional Medicine. They examine this connectivity to find the cause of the symptoms, not just eliminate symptoms.

It is surprising at how many health effects are related to gut health - at least that has been my experience. When the gut isn't happy, everything else in my body isn't happy.

 

[zipplock]

It is surprising at how many health effects are related to gut health - at least that has been my experience. When the gut isn't happy, everything else in my body isn't happy.

Truth!!!

 

[Sometennispun]

Thanks for the responses. For those offering a diagnosis nope not depressed.

The only thing at this point I haven't tried is acupuncture. But the reality is there is no diagnosis or cure really, it is what it is. This is what I need help dealing with.

 

[Sometennispun]

Depression? Get alot of sex! Legal or not! Bring you out of the depression you seen to be in. A lot of sex surrogates/therapists are pretty attractive looking and if you can get it as a medical condition, you are set for life. Otherwise go visit a brothel. Do not go with streetwalker or pimps. Unsafe!

Too tired...

 

[Harry_Wild]

Too tired...

NO...! Maybe take the 1st step and watch it for now? Find a favorite pornstar but do not get addicted to it! It is suppose to be a “hard” (no pun attended) addiction to overcome.

 

[Rosstour]

Yeah, chronic fatigue is a problem of mine. It's a common problem to have for those with IBD (stomach problems such as colitis, of Crohns. I've seen it written that the fatigue can be just as problematic as the stomach issues for some.)

Was coming here to say this.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I've been getting pretty ill lately, all tests come back negative and CFS is what I'm battling day to day. Given up on comp but still try to hit socially. Moved to a part time job working from home 19 hrs a week but even that is a bit much. I need to nap in the middle of each work day to get through.

Lately I've been feeling quite weak and have some injuries and pain building up and just generally feel like my life is slipping away as I seem to be getting worse.

I guess I don't know what my question is, does anyone have any direct experience? Something to give me hope at least. The prognosis for anyone who has cfs and had every other possible cause eliminated is very poor. I'm only mid 30's

You name it I've seen it. The medical system has no answers for CFS

Read up on diet and make sure you are at least doing some walks and stretching/yoga daily. Give yourself some grace to work through where you are at the moment, but be present in each moment to know things will get better. I had some issues with something very similar back 5 or 6 years back and it took me a good year to get some physical stamina back, but a few years to understand and build the mental stamina back.

 

[tennis tom]

Why you should look into Dr Sarno's TMS - Release CFS

Dr Sarno spent his life trying to help people with chronic pain. Dr Sarno was a Professor of Rehabilitation Medicine and an attending physician. In his years

www.danielvanloosbroek.com

 

[Sometennispun]

Read up on diet and make sure you are at least doing some walks and stretching/yoga daily. Give yourself some grace to work through where you are at the moment, but be present in each moment to know things will get better. I had some issues with something very similar back 5 or 6 years back and it took me a good year to get some physical stamina back, but a few years to understand and build the mental stamina back.

What diet thiings should I be reading up on? Already famailiar with FODMaps and Salicylates, went vego for a while but protein seems to settle the digestion better

 

[ChaelAZ]

What diet thiings should I be reading up on? Already famailiar with FODMaps and Salicylates, went vego for a while but protein seems to settle the digestion better

Lots of research out there regarding the microbiome. Do a Google Scholar search for "microbiome chronic fatigue symdrome". Like a lot of things for health, there has been a huge shift in research in diet and gut health in the last several years, and the effects have been far reaching. Calories are not calories and the genetic and bacterial make-up of what we take in is being understood at new cellular levels. Some things take years for the shift to happen, so correcting diet might take time to correct as well. Anyway, worth checking out. Here is a link you can use :

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2017&q=microbiome+chronic+fatigue+syndrome&hl=en&as_sdt=0,3&as_vis=1

I am not a doctor, but I personally like to read up on everything I can to understand my health better. Having gone through something similar, and having gone through western medicines symptom matrix tests and fixes, only to be told they can't find anything wrong as you were (but of course being offered all kinds of pills, shots, and crap), I started to seek deep answers. The basic fact is, everything (and I mean everything your are physically, from toenails, to hair, to bone, to brain tissue and neurons, to the complete fluids and pathways of physiology) are directly programmed by the food you eat through the cells of it and the DNA make up. Not talking some new age sage burning to ward off negative feelings (though there is actually scientific studies there too ), but something more holistic for people. Worth reading up to see what is being found though.

 

[Sometennispun]

Lots of research out there regarding the microbiome. Do a Google Scholar search for "microbiome chronic fatigue symdrome". Like a lot of things for health, there has been a huge shift in research in diet and gut health in the last several years, and the effects have been far reaching. Calories are not calories and the genetic and bacterial make-up of what we take in is being understood at new cellular levels. Some things take years for the shift to happen, so correcting diet might take time to correct as well. Anyway, worth checking out. Here is a link you can use :

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2017&q=microbiome+chronic+fatigue+syndrome&hl=en&as_sdt=0,3&as_vis=1

I am not a doctor, but I personally like to read up on everything I can to understand my health better. Having gone through something similar, and having gone through western medicines symptom matrix tests and fixes, only to be told they can't find anything wrong as you were (but of course being offered all kinds of pills, shots, and crap), I started to seek deep answers. The basic fact is, everything (and I mean everything your are physically, from toenails, to hair, to bone, to brain tissue and neurons, to the complete fluids and pathways of physiology) are directly programmed by the food you eat through the cells of it and the DNA make up. Not talking some new age sage burning to ward off negative feelings (though there is actually scientific studies there too ), but something more holistic for people. Worth reading up to see what is being found though.

What did you do to treat it? Are you talking about watching what you eat? Eating organic? Fecal transplant? They give intriguing results although the idea is certainly offputting.

I've made changes with little effect. Only thing I havent done so far is give up on refined sugar, love those choc bickies!

I agree with the cells from food concept. According to QI although you may be 50 or so, your cells themselves are only around 4 years old, including your bones and everything else.

 

[ChaelAZ]

What did you do to treat it? Are you talking about watching what you eat? Eating organic? Fecal transplant? They give intriguing results although the idea is certainly offputting.

I've made changes with little effect. Only thing I havent done so far is give up on refined sugar, love those choc bickies!

I agree with the cells from food concept. According to QI although you may be 50 or so, your cells themselves are only around 4 years old, including your bones and everything else.

Yeah, some of it is out there, but interesting what the data is showing. And there are places that do cellular testing to find your biological age based on many profiles. Anyway...

For me I did some basics for my diet, which generally benefit everyone:

• Drink mostly water, and lots of it
• More veggies and whole food (less processing and things added)
• Greatly reduced added sugars
• Limit highly refined carbs and carbs in general

Other stuff I personally think help in the long run to limit metabolically toxic build up:

• Organic when possible
• High quality meets, though I generally do not eat a lot of meat anymore

Other health benefits type stuff, but also very good for me to understand my relationship with food and portions for my health:

• Timed meals with 16+ hour daily fasting
• 2-3 day water only fasts at least once a month

I do not believe in supplements in general, having tried all kinds of teas, roots, vitamins, etc. No protein powders, metabolic concoctions, health bars, or the like. I feel great when I am doing the above and get all the nutrients I needs.

I still go up and down weight wise depending on my focus, so it is certainly not a linear path, through the highs and lows are level out more as I do this more often because I know how good I feel doing the right things over how bad I feel later when doing all the good things (lots of beer, pizza, fat steaks, and sweets) to fill and immediate craving. Even when I am sticking to the diet stuff above, I still take Friday evening through Saturday to enjoy whatever I want, though I stick to the 16 hour daily fast on those days too.

And then on the mental side, you might look into books like Atomic Habits, Mindset, or How To Create Mind.

One book that might resonate very well with you with Brave New Medicine: A Doctor's Unconventional Path to Healing Her Autoimmune Illness A Doctor's Unconventional Path to Healing Her Autoimmune Illness (Books). It looks at these pyscho-physio-physical issues doctors blanket into some general terms and goes into some of what is above, and then some of the new age type of stuff that might be kinda out there. And it is written by a traditionally trained western doctor with eastern upbringing, living with modern issues. I think some of this might hit home.

And Some good YT channels to help are like Rich Roll (a personal favorite), Mark Hyman MD, Joe Rogan, Tom Bilyeu, What I've Learned, Jason Fung, Nutritionfacts.org, Daily Stoic, Jay Shetty, David Goggins, and the like. Many have additional books that are good reads as well.

I still don't have much competitive spirit for tennis like I used to. I think my younger ego drove a lot of that, as is for most players. I have settled in my mind though that I do want to do the best I can on the court performance wise, without any emotional tie or vested interest in the outcomes. I just enjoy meeting the people and the time on court. Still working on that balance.

Anyway, there are LOTS of ways to approach your situation, so could be nothing above fits you, but maybe it at least gives you encouragement to invest in yourself and do find what works.

Cheers.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I've probably seen more people with this problem than anyone on this board and here are my conclusions:

1) CFS is not a single diagnosis. It's a grab bag term for a number of different issues that cause fatigue
2) Some treatable conditions need to be ruled out such as depression, MS, cervical spondylosis, hypothyroidism, hypopituitarism, cancer, connective tissue disorders, diabetes, cardiomyopathy, Obstructive sleep apnea, etc
3) most causes will be untreatable and related to neurobiological reactions to infections, mitochondrial dysfunction, or unknown causes.
4) most remedies are of dubious benefit and ensuring a healthy lifestyle including exercise to tolerance is important to maintain some stamina


Outcome is entirely variable and dependent on the mechanism and the patient's mental health. Those that sink into depression with this condition inevitably have far worse outcomes than those that maintain positive attitudes. Unfortunately negativity is hard to reverse course on as it's often personality driven.

 

[ollinger]

1) CFS is not a single diagnosis. It's a grab bag term for a number of different issues that cause fatigue
2) Some treatable conditions need to be ruled out such as depression, MS, cervical spondylosis, hypothyroidism, hypopituitarism, cancer, connective tissue disorders, diabetes, cardiomyopathy, Obstructive sleep apnea, etc
3) most causes will be untreatable and related to neurobiological reactions to infections, mitochondrial dysfunction, or unknown causes.
4) most remedies are of dubious benefit and ensuring a healthy lifestyle including exercise to tolerance is important to maintain some stamina

Agree entirely, the more depressive ones often are referred to me

 

[Robert F]

It sounds like you've tried a lot of things.
I'll just add that some people are undernourished.

I'm not a fan of the vegetarian (I think you tried that for a while) in most cases because people assume a vegetarian diet gets all the nutrients, but often it does not. Even a vegetarian diet needs variety and balance. I often worry about omega 3s and B-vitamins with vegetarians. Good vegetarians can do this but it is tougher. '

In general, I also wonder if you are getting enough protein. If you have been struggling for a while, which you suggest, you might consider something like 1gram per pound of lean mass. It might be a big drive up, but it might provide more building to fix structures/cells.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Agree entirely, the more depressive ones often are referred to me

These unfortunate people make their rounds to a number of specialists: internists, neurologists, psychiatrists. It's a very unsatisfying problem for both the clinicians and patients since so often the exams and tests are all normal but the patient is non-functional.

Wish OP the best and hope he can stay positive, stay healthy as possible and hopefully with time the symptoms will remit.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I would start with fundamentals:

- diet
- sleep
- stress management
- exercise
- I'm no doctor so caveat lector

Have you tried charting your symptoms and their severity and correlating them to your lifestyle and events?

Diet
What do you eat? How much? When? What ratio of home cooked vs prepared? Have you been tested for food allergies?

Don't forget to account for fluids. Cut out the soda. Even fruit juice can be bad because it still has a ton of sugar. Stick with water. And a good amount. Many people are dehydrated, according to what I've read [myself included].


Sleep
How many hours? How restful is it [are you constantly getting up or having trouble getting back to sleep?]? Do you have a set schedule? Maybe melatonin might help?


Stress Management
How do you deal with stress? Smash things? Internalize it? Yell at people? Have you tried meditation?


Exercise
Find some routine which you can do almost regardless of how you're feeling. There are all kinds of benefits and I would think many conditions would be compounded by lack of exercise.

 

[Mr.Lob]

Problems with anxiety? Tested for sleep apnea?

 

[Sometennispun]

Thanks to the guys that have gone into "solution mode". Perhaps they will help someones else with CFS symptoms who sees this thread. For me I have looked under many stones.

I've gone through the "7 stages of grief" regarding losing quality of life and acceptance but the last month have taken a turn for the worse and become fearful I won't be able to do any of the things I hold most dear; Playing with my kids and playing tennis.

I would start with fundamentals:

- diet
- sleep
- stress management
- exercise
- I'm no doctor so caveat lector

Have you tried charting your symptoms and their severity and correlating them to your lifestyle and events?

Yep, Yep, Yep, and yep.

Diet
What do you eat? How much? When? What ratio of home cooked vs prepared? Have you been tested for food allergies?

Don't forget to account for fluids. Cut out the soda. Even fruit juice can be bad because it still has a ton of sugar. Stick with water. And a good amount. Many people are dehydrated, according to what I've read [myself included].

Yes. Regarding fluids can find just as many counter studies that you don't need to drink 4 litres a day. So the question becomes who do you believe? I like the caveman approach, and they weren't drinking that much. Anyway tried it and water didn't solve anything for me. It just ain't that simple

Sleep
How many hours? How restful is it [are you constantly getting up or having trouble getting back to sleep?]? Do you have a set schedule? Maybe melatonin might help?

Yep, one of the few people I've seen that were actually helpful was a hypnotist for sleep. Surprising as I am a big skeptic.

Stress Management
How do you deal with stress? Smash things? Internalize it? Yell at people? Have you tried meditation?

Pretty much all of those lol! I have taken many steps to reduce stress in my lifestyle changing jobs and such.

Exercise
Find some routine which you can do almost regardless of how you're feeling. There are all kinds of benefits and I would think many conditions would be compounded by lack of exercise.

Difficult, I mostly just play tennis at a low intensity and walk to the shops every now and then. The thing is tennis is scheduled in with others and if I'm not feeling well that day I miss out for another few days. Yoga and Pilates at home would like to do more of but when you have a limited energy envelope it's hard to prioritise this when you can barely get through a day of feeding kids getting them to school and doing a bit of cleaning.

In the end anything that makes a normal person feel better it helps to maximise a reduced energy envelope, but it is still like dragging around a ball and chain every day. For context if not having a good day then just filling a kettle with water is too much and needs a lie down afterwards.


Please don't take your health for granted, it's a blessing every time you get onto the court. Enjoy it and don't worry about winning or ratings.

 

[Nostradamus]

Depression? Get alot of sex! Legal or not! Bring you out of the depression you seen to be in. A lot of sex surrogates/therapists are pretty attractive looking and if you can get it as a medical condition, you are set for life. Otherwise go visit a brothel. Do not go with streetwalker or pimps. Unsafe!

Othwerwise, if you are married, explain this to your spouse and maybe she will help but I would count on it however; since you are already depressed. LOL!

Serrogate or Therapist ?? can you refer me to a few ? attractive ones in holliwood or beverly hills ,, perhaps ?

 

[Nostradamus]

Depression? Get alot of sex! Legal or not! Bring you out of the depression you seen to be in. A lot of sex surrogates/therapists are pretty attractive looking and if you can get it as a medical condition, you are set for life. Otherwise go visit a brothel. Do not go with streetwalker or pimps. Unsafe!

Othwerwise, if you are married, explain this to your spouse and maybe she will help but I would count on it however; since you are already depressed. LOL!

not sure about you but these therapists don't look that attractive to me

sign-up

mojo.so

 

[Jake Speeed]

Lifestyle.

You haven't said anything about it?

There's the lifestyle everyone knows, then there's your private lifestyle.

I'd start there with an examination of your friends and on-goings.

Alcohol is always an issue. I hope you're not involved with alcohol.

JS

 

[Dartagnan64]

Lifestyle.

You haven't said anything about it?

There's the lifestyle everyone knows, then there's your private lifestyle.

I'd start there with an examination of your friends and on-goings.

Alcohol is always an issue. I hope you're not involved with alcohol.

JS

Can't recall the last CFS patient I saw that had an alcohol problem. They seem to be teetotallers to a fault.

 

[Jake Speeed]

Can't recall the last CFS patient I saw that had an alcohol problem. They seem to be teetotallers to a fault.

You still know all about alcohol.

 

[WildVolley]

...
Alcohol is always an issue. I hope you're not involved with alcohol.
JS

No, alcohol isn't always an issue. Most Americans consume alcohol; most Americans don't have CFS.

Also, a few studies show that moderate drinkers live longer than abstainers.

 

[Jake Speeed]

No, alcohol isn't always an issue. Most Americans consume alcohol; most Americans don't have CFS.

Also, a few studies show that moderate drinkers live longer than abstainers.

With all due respect, I'll disagree. Is there an industry paying for those studies?

I've never seen alcohol do a single pit of good for or to anyone's life. Life isn't TV commercials.

Owning up to realism?

JS

 

[ollinger]

I've never seen alcohol do a single pit of good for or to anyone's life.

A number of clinical studies have shown that up to about two drinks per day can reduce the risk of both dementia and heart disease. No, the studies were not industry funded.

 

[tennis tom]

... a few studies show that moderate drinkers live longer than abstainers.

BOOYAH! I'll drink to that!

 

[Deleted member 776614]

Sorry to hear.... I just wanted to say, don't be ashamed to treat depression if it sets in. It can make whatever you're going through seem many times worse.

 

[Sometennispun]

Lifestyle.

You haven't said anything about it?

There's the lifestyle everyone knows, then there's your private lifestyle.

I'd start there with an examination of your friends and on-goings.

Alcohol is always an issue. I hope you're not involved with alcohol.

JS

From a guy that posts as if he's drunk all the time...

 

[Robert F]

No, alcohol isn't always an issue. Most Americans consume alcohol; most Americans don't have CFS.

Also, a few studies show that moderate drinkers live longer than abstainers.

Some caution. It is a very narrow window of benefit before it increases harm.
For men more of the data supports about 1 drink a day.
For women most of the data support about 1/2 drink a day.
In regards for health benefits.

For many Americans this becomes a justification to drink 2 glasses ow wine a night. For women, especially smaller women, this could actually increase risk for dementia, several cancers and worsen mental health.

Plus if you have had mental health issues, alcohol is almost adding to the fire.

I'm not against people using alcohol, I just don't want them thinking it is some magic elixir. If you enjoy and it doesn't worsen your life, then continue.

Anecdotally, I'd say most people I've encountered with CFS have not had alcohol issues. I'd guess they are a group that uses less alcohol then most, but again this is more of a clinical hunch then evidence.

 

[Grip n Rip]

A number of clinical studies have shown that up to about two drinks per day can reduce the risk of both dementia and heart disease. No, the studies were not industry funded.

You should find these studies then and link them please. Because every study I have ever read and health advice is that alcohol increases your risk of stroke and dementia.

How alcohol affects your health

Many of us drink alcohol, but there are side effects. Alcohol can affect your physical and mental health. Find out about the negative effects of alcohol.

www.healthdirect.gov.au

Alcohol's Effects on the Body | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)

Drinking too much – on a single occasion or over time – can take a serious toll on your health. Here’s how alcohol can affect your body:

www.niaaa.nih.gov

Even what you have stated isn't what is good for you overall, only two elements. Every mL of alcohol kills brain cells, damages liver, cirhossis, causes bowell cancer, lowers sperm count. And that is before you consider social harm from alcohol.

 

[Grip n Rip]

Yeah, some of it is out there, but interesting what the data is showing. And there are places that do cellular testing to find your biological age based on many profiles. Anyway...

For me I did some basics for my diet, which generally benefit everyone:

• Drink mostly water, and lots of it
• More veggies and whole food (less processing and things added)
• Greatly reduced added sugars
• Limit highly refined carbs and carbs in general

Other stuff I personally think help in the long run to limit metabolically toxic build up:

• Organic when possible
• High quality meets, though I generally do not eat a lot of meat anymore

Other health benefits type stuff, but also very good for me to understand my relationship with food and portions for my health:

• Timed meals with 16+ hour daily fasting
• 2-3 day water only fasts at least once a month

I do not believe in supplements in general, having tried all kinds of teas, roots, vitamins, etc. No protein powders, metabolic concoctions, health bars, or the like. I feel great when I am doing the above and get all the nutrients I needs.

I still go up and down weight wise depending on my focus, so it is certainly not a linear path, through the highs and lows are level out more as I do this more often because I know how good I feel doing the right things over how bad I feel later when doing all the good things (lots of beer, pizza, fat steaks, and sweets) to fill and immediate craving. Even when I am sticking to the diet stuff above, I still take Friday evening through Saturday to enjoy whatever I want, though I stick to the 16 hour daily fast on those days too.

And then on the mental side, you might look into books like Atomic Habits, Mindset, or How To Create Mind.

One book that might resonate very well with you with Brave New Medicine: A Doctor's Unconventional Path to Healing Her Autoimmune Illness A Doctor's Unconventional Path to Healing Her Autoimmune Illness (Books). It looks at these pyscho-physio-physical issues doctors blanket into some general terms and goes into some of what is above, and then some of the new age type of stuff that might be kinda out there. And it is written by a traditionally trained western doctor with eastern upbringing, living with modern issues. I think some of this might hit home.

And Some good YT channels to help are like Rich Roll (a personal favorite), Mark Hyman MD, Joe Rogan, Tom Bilyeu, What I've Learned, Jason Fung, Nutritionfacts.org, Daily Stoic, Jay Shetty, David Goggins, and the like. Many have additional books that are good reads as well.

I still don't have much competitive spirit for tennis like I used to. I think my younger ego drove a lot of that, as is for most players. I have settled in my mind though that I do want to do the best I can on the court performance wise, without any emotional tie or vested interest in the outcomes. I just enjoy meeting the people and the time on court. Still working on that balance.

Anyway, there are LOTS of ways to approach your situation, so could be nothing above fits you, but maybe it at least gives you encouragement to invest in yourself and do find what works.

Cheers.

Mark Hyman MD has some interesting topics, thanks Chael

 

[Shroud]

I've been getting pretty ill lately, all tests come back negative and CFS is what I'm battling day to day. Given up on comp but still try to hit socially. Moved to a part time job working from home 19 hrs a week but even that is a bit much. I need to nap in the middle of each work day to get through.

Lately I've been feeling quite weak and have some injuries and pain building up and just generally feel like my life is slipping away as I seem to be getting worse.

I guess I don't know what my question is, does anyone have any direct experience? Something to give me hope at least. The prognosis for anyone who has cfs and had every other possible cause eliminated is very poor. I'm only mid 30's

sounds like you have tried a ton of things. Have you fasted for a week, drinking only water and or green tea? if not do give it a shot. You may be very very surprised at the effects and how easy it is to do after the first 2 days.

IMHO the food we have these days, even the good ones are more of a poison than anything. Especially meat that is farmed by big slaughter and even organic veggies since the soils are often mineral challenged. Let your body have a break on dealing with that stuff and give it time to start healing. Also green tea is alkaline and given all the acidic foods we eat its a nice add to help the healing.

It can't hurt too much to try if you haven't already

Also you may want to try some chelation therapy if you haven't tried that

Also what is your RF situation like? Do you live by a cell tower? Sleep next to the wifi router?? Have a smart meter outside the bedroom?

 

[Robert F]

Mark Hyman MD has some interesting topics, thanks Chael

Be careful with Hyman. I think he takes a lot of good ideas and tries to claim them as his own most likely to make money.

 

[tennis tom]

Explaining the Unexplainable: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Brain research sheds light on how fatigue becomes chronic

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Sometennispun]

sounds like you have tried a ton of things. Have you fasted for a week, drinking only water and or green tea? if not do give it a shot. You may be very very surprised at the effects and how easy it is to do after the first 2 days.

IMHO the food we have these days, even the good ones are more of a poison than anything. Especially meat that is farmed by big slaughter and even organic veggies since the soils are often mineral challenged. Let your body have a break on dealing with that stuff and give it time to start healing. Also green tea is alkaline and given all the acidic foods we eat its a nice add to help the healing.

It can't hurt too much to try if you haven't already

Also you may want to try some chelation therapy if you haven't tried that

Also what is your RF situation like? Do you live by a cell tower? Sleep next to the wifi router?? Have a smart meter outside the bedroom?

Wow so many new age practitioners around here I wouldn't have guessed.

Not sure if you are serious about the water and green tea?

My RF situation? Well to tell the truth this may be a problem, I have three RF97's

Honestly tho I was paranoid enough about wifi to turn it off whenever I went to bed. Not so much now, I wear an apple watch to track sleep and other health things anyway.

As far as tea I enjoy my tea but I'm avoiding that for a while as I am trying to reduce my salicylates intake and tea is high. Not just for CFS just trying to improve digestion and remove things that cause indigestion. When I saw this list it what a who's who of problem foods for me, including beer which I haven't been able to drink for a while now .

Low Salicylate Diet - With List of Foods to Eat & Avoid

A low salicylate (suh-lih-suh-late) diet means eating foods that have a little salicylate in them. Salicylate is a chemical that is found in some foods. It is also the chemical that is in aspirin. You may need to follow this diet if you are allergic to as

www.drugs.com

 

[Shroud]

Wow so many new age practitioners around here I wouldn't have guessed.

Not sure if you are serious about the water and green tea?

My RF situation? Well to tell the truth this may be a problem, I have three RF97's

Honestly tho I was paranoid enough about wifi to turn it off whenever I went to bed. Not so much now, I wear an apple watch to track sleep and other health things anyway.

As far as tea I enjoy my tea but I'm avoiding that for a while as I am trying to reduce my salicylates intake and tea is high. Not just for CFS just trying to improve digestion and remove things that cause indigestion. When I saw this list it what a who's who of problem foods for me, including beer which I haven't been able to drink for a while now .

Low Salicylate Diet - With List of Foods to Eat & Avoid

A low salicylate (suh-lih-suh-late) diet means eating foods that have a little salicylate in them. Salicylate is a chemical that is found in some foods. It is also the chemical that is in aspirin. You may need to follow this diet if you are allergic to as

www.drugs.com

Totally serious. If the tea is a problem just do water. Also is the salicylate thing a thing for you? Is aspirin an issue? You mention beer. How have you concluded its the salicylates and not just the alchohol or gluten? Anyhow try a couple days of fasting at least with just water. Autophagy i think is the technical term for what it allows the body to do.

can you go a day without the rf devices like the watch and phone and wifi? Or just at night at least. May not be an issue but could it hurt?

yeah modern medicine pretty much blows so one has to look elsewhere to get better.

 

[Born_to_slice]

I had similar problem in my 30s. Before 30s, body can take a lot of self-abuse. Drinking, smoking, sleeping irregularly, working your ass off on a job that is not mentally rewarding, ignoring problems and letting them pile up. It's not unnatural to reach a moment when the body and mind are simply tired of it all. Solution is obvious IMO. We need a rest. But that doesn't mean you can solve it all just by sleeping more (though changing the quality of sleep time by breathing better air and sleeping on a comfortable bed can do wonders). Sometimes you need a vacation to charge your batteries or you need a vacation from the lifestyle, work, daily routine, computer/smartphone screen time, etc.