Favorite Court speed and bounce

[Deleted member 716271]

Djokovic-Slow and Medium He likes slow so much a high bouncing HC is still great if that slows him down, low like grass is OK but occasionally struggles with slice...great serving allows him to handle the faster courts better nowadays.

Nadal-Slow and High He likes high bounce/action off court so much a faster HC like USO is OK. Prefers slower clay courts as a generality, but if a particular court is "playing fast" due to hot/dry weather this helps due to action and higher bounce.

Murray-Fast and low A flat hitting counterpuncher with a big 1st serve makes fast surfaces a natural match. However, a great grinder/retriever and somewhat weak shots make slow HC almost equal to fast in performance, clay is a problem due to flat shots and an inability to hit thru the court.

Federer-Medium/Fast and low A beautiful all court game suited to most court speeds, prefers faster courts on tours today, but slightly more vulnerable on truly fast court. Relative, as his performance here is still better than anyone else of his peers, but powerful groundstrokes, 2nd most RPM to Nadal make medium/fast courts ideal. Can still play very well on slow HC and clay as he has the ability to hit thru them that a Murray lacks.

 

[6-3 6-0]

Federer definitely prefers fast courts to medium/slow anyday now that he lost power due to aging. After his loss to Federer in Dubai 2012, Murray had said that if courts were that fast Federer would have been No. 1 for a longer period of time.

 

[thomasferrett]

Nadal is medium and high

 

[what_army]

Doesn't Jack Sock hit more topspin than Nadal?

 

[jg153040]

OP, do you mean what courts suit their game or on what courts they think they will have most fun playing?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal is medium and high

This right here.

 

[jg153040]

Why do people say Fed is suited for medium speed courts?

Doesn't Fed have like 80% of titles on fast courts?

 

[Inanimate_object]

Why do people say Fed is suited for medium speed courts?

Doesn't Fed have like 80% of titles on fast courts?

He's not a speed machine anymore. The faster the court, the more he can finish points short. But the speed means he's also more viable to being blown off the court himself. And that has happened on numerous occasions now. I'd say the OP is spot on. Federer seems to enjoy success now on medium speed courts

 

[Sysyphus]

Doesn't Jack Sock hit more topspin than Nadal?

True, he can also hit in the same range.

The whole "Nadal hits most top-spin on tour, Federer second" is pretty unsubstantiated really. Most of these comparisons are done on the big four only, where it's true.

 

[Inanimate_object]

True, he can also hit in the same range.

The whole "Nadal hits most top-spin on tour, Federer second" is pretty unsubstantiated really. Most of these comparisons are done on the big four only, where it's true.

I'm not sure that's true. I believe the initial declaration that Nadal and Federer were 1 and 2 in topspin came from Hawk-Eye data of the field at IW, if I recall correctly.

 

[Sysyphus]

I'm not sure that's true. I believe the initial declaration that Nadal and Federer were 1 and 2 in topspin came from Hawk-Eye data of the field at IW, if I recall correctly.

That may well be, but there have been some different measurements during the years that nuance the picture. John Yandell for instance measured Fed and Novak at the same average top-spin RPM (slightly under 3000). Bruguera was measured at an average of 3300 (the same as Nadal) before poly, so I'd be hard-pressed to believe there are no players who at least hit the same ballpark as Nadal. Sock is one such guy.

But I'm not terribly sure in either case.

 

[jg153040]

He's not a speed machine anymore. The faster the court, the more he can finish points short. But the speed means he's also more viable to being blown off the court himself. And that has happened on numerous occasions now. I'd say the OP is spot on. Federer seems to enjoy success now on medium speed courts

But even today he has the best record on fast courts.

IN 14/15 he makes WTF final. He won Cincy 14, he won Dubai 14,15. He made W final.

So any evidence suggests, Fed loves fast courts.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

I think Nadal could be medium and high, but not really on clay...he does best on clay the slowest surface obviously...yes the high bounce is a major part of it, but look at his performance at Monte Carlo over the years and RG and Rome vs. Madrid or Hamburg or faster clay.

Madrid is a great example, because it is the altitude that speeds the courts up, so it's not simply due to a a lower bounce that Nadal has stuggled there relatively (since it turned to clay), it's clearly the more medium speed.

Nadal himself has said otherwise, that he likes quicker courts and it's just because of his clay success that people think differently, so maybe I'm full of it but I only see more success in the NA swing compared to AO +IW+Miami and I think that's because the courts are more "lively" and take his spin better--sometimes his ball at the USO looks like its jumping off court compared to the dead AO courts that Novak loves, which is what I think he means by "quicker".

But on clay, the slower the better imo, unless the court is slowed down by weather which makes the bounce lower...and I agree the bounce height is more important.

Grass always plays better for him both slower and higher as the tournament progressed.

 

[jg153040]

I think Nadal could be medium and high, but not really on clay...he does best on clay the slowest surface obviously...yes the high bounce is a major part of it, but look at his performance at Monte Carlo over the years and RG and Rome vs. Madrid or Hamburg or faster clay.

Madrid is a great example, because it is the altitude that speeds the courts up, so it's not simply due to a a lower bounce that Nadal has stuggled there relatively (since it turned to clay), it's clearly the more medium speed.

Nadal himself has said otherwise, that he likes quicker courts and it's just because of his clay success that people think differently, so maybe I'm full of it but I only see more success in the NA swing compared to AO +IW+Miami and I think that's because the courts are more "lively" and take his spin better--sometimes his ball at the USO looks like its jumping off court compared to the dead AO courts that Novak loves, which is what I think he means by "quicker".

But on clay, the slower the better imo, unless the court is slowed down by weather which makes the bounce lower...and I agree the bounce height is more important.

Grass always plays better for him both slower and higher as the tournament progressed.

Yeah, I agree with you that with Nadal speed is the key, not bounce. He needs time to defend and put ball into play on returns and to have time to slowly dictate with his forehand.

He also prefers slow speed, so that when he serves, serve comes back slowly to him. He doesn't like his own serve coming back fast to him.

But, I don't know why we are even having those discussions, those things are quite obvious.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Yeah, I agree with you that with Nadal speed is the key, not bounce. He needs time to defend and put ball into play on returns and to have time to slowly dictate with his forehand.

He also prefers slow speed, so that when he serves, serve comes back slowly to him. He doesn't like his own serve coming back fast to him.

But, I don't know why we are even having those discussions, those things are quite obvious.

It's obvious that you're incorrect. Madrid is an exception and not the rule because of the way the ball flies due to altitude, not the speed of the court. Nadal himself just said last year that it's not faster courts that bother him. His record at the USO compared to the AO speaks to that. His lack of WTF titles considering the court is as slow as molasses, is because it's indoors and produces a lower bounce. The reason why he can beat Novak in New York and not Melbourne? The court is faster.

 

[jg153040]

It's obvious that you're incorrect. Madrid is an exception and not the rule because of the way the ball flies due to altitude, not the speed of the court. Nadal himself just said last year that it's not faster courts that bother him. His record at the USO compared to the AO speaks to that. His lack of WTF titles considering the court is as slow as molasses, is because it's indoors and produces a lower bounce. The reason why he can beat Novak in New York and not Melbourne? The court is faster.

I think you didn't comprehend. I said speed is the key, not speed of the court is the key. There's a difference.

 

[Sysyphus]

I think Nadal could be medium and high, but not really on clay...he does best on clay the slowest surface obviously...yes the high bounce is a major part of it, but look at his performance at Monte Carlo over the years and RG and Rome vs. Madrid or Hamburg or faster clay.

Madrid is a great example, because it is the altitude that speeds the courts up, so it's not simply due to a a lower bounce that Nadal has stuggled there relatively (since it turned to clay), it's clearly the more medium speed.

Nadal himself has said otherwise, that he likes quicker courts and it's just because of his clay success that people think differently, so maybe I'm full of it but I only see more success in the NA swing compared to AO +IW+Miami and I think that's because the courts are more "lively" and take his spin better--sometimes his ball at the USO looks like its jumping off court compared to the dead AO courts that Novak loves, which is what I think he means by "quicker".

But on clay, the slower the better imo, unless the court is slowed down by weather which makes the bounce lower...and I agree the bounce height is more important.

Grass always plays better for him both slower and higher as the tournament progressed.

This is a pretty good roundup, I think you summed up the gist of it. I do think that the bounce/grit of the court is definitely the main factor, and that, all things equal, a bit slower is better.

It's obvious that you're incorrect. Madrid is an exception and not the rule because of the way the ball flies due to altitude, not the speed of the court. Nadal himself just said last year that it's not faster courts that bother him. His record at the USO compared to the AO speaks to that. His lack of WTF titles considering the court is as slow as molasses, is because it's indoors and produces a lower bounce. The reason why he can beat Novak in New York and not Melbourne? The court is faster.

Yeah, you're clearly right in suggesting that speed isn't what bothers him. But the difference between his success at USO and AO is really quite negligible, and just some small coincidences could have seen him with two AO titles and one at USO.

And as to why he beats Novak at USO and not AO? AO 2012: Novak at top form, barely wins in five. USO 2013: Nadal in top form, Novak slightly less, Nadal wins in four. USO 2011: Novak in top form, Nadal not so much, Novak wins in four.

Their match up in these two tournaments is mostly about form, clearly. However, I do agree, Nadal probably has some better chances at USO, but that's not about speed, but rather about AO being a deader and less spin-friendly court.

 

[SpinToWin]

Djokovic prefers slower courts and is fairly indifferent to the bounce from what I can tell. Certainly, he'll prefer a low bouncing court against Rafa, but he'll also prefer a high bouncing court against Roger I'd say. He isn't effected by the bounce nearly as much as others. Fast courts rush him and make his defense less effective so that's why he likes them less I'd say.

Federer clearly prefers lower bouncing courts, as they fit perfectly in his strike zone and style of play. Nowadays he also prefers faster courts, since his firepower has diminished significantly and he cannot pull the trigger quite as easily, in addition to his decrease in speed and stamina which incentivizes him to shorten the rallies.

Rafa is a guy who is less affected by speed and more by bounce (opposite of Djokovic). Rafa prefers courts that really emphasize the bounce/spin of his shots. His game has gotten more aggressive throughout the years (a reaction to his decreased physicality/speed), so his preference has shifted ever so slightly more to faster courts IMO, as they allow him to finish the point more quickly and dominate play with his heavy forehand shots.

Murray prefers fast and low bouncing courts, as these benefit his counter-punching style the most. Unfortunately for him, he hit the tour in a time where these surfaces got increasingly rare.

 

[reaper]

Centre court at Roland Garros is the highest bouncing court?...Nadal was very vulnerable through the 2014 clay season until he cruised to victory in Paris.