Favorite match points

krosero

Legend
I agree. I don't think it really a terrible bounce in which you could really expect a player to totally miss the ball. You would expect him to get a piece of the ball at least. Makes you wonder how some players today would adapted to the truly awful grass and really bad bounces at the old Forest Hills courts.

I saw the match on television and I've looked at the bounce numerous times and I still can't believe he missed it totally. Let's face it, no one would expect Federer to missed that type of bounce totally. It was shocking.
The ball seems to curl off to the side. In other words, it's traveling from Nadal in the ad court toward Federer in the ad court, but at the bounce it curls off toward the deuce court. And that's how it seems to have passed Federer's racquet: not over or under, but past the extreme edge of the racquet.

Or does the ball curl back that way because Federer deflected it slightly with the edge of the racquet? I've seen many such shots like that while taking stats: where the racquet edge just barely grazes the ball, barely changing its trajectory (although, the shots I'm talking about are difficult shots on the run, barely reached).

While I agree it was shocking, whiffs always are. I'm sure I've seen some in taking all the stats I have.

Borg whiffed on one of Laver's serves at Hilton Head. I put that down as an ace for Laver.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
I will be your second, Hood. Always wanted to be a second in a duel.

But can we make it around 11 or noon? Dawn is too early for me.

Can I be his third?:)

Incidentally the weapons should be either modern racquets or wood racquests. It'll be like Vijay Amritraj using a tennis racquet like a sword in that James Bond movie.
The ball seems to curl off to the side. In other words, it's traveling from Nadal in the ad court toward Federer in the ad court, but at the bounce it curls off toward the deuce court. And that's how it seems to have passed Federer's racquet: not over or under, but past the extreme edge of the racquet.

Or does the ball curl back that way because Federer deflected it slightly with the edge of the racquet? I've seen many such shots like that while taking stats: where the racquet edge just barely grazes the ball, barely changing its trajectory (although, the shots I'm talking about are difficult shots on the run, barely reached).

While I agree it was shocking, whiffs always are. I'm sure I've seen some in taking all the stats I have.

Borg whiffed on one of Laver's serves at Hilton Head. I put that down as an ace for Laver.

That's Federer whiff could be the most embarrassing match point or at least up there if it's not the most memorable. It's hard to tell if the ball curled off to the side. I thought it could have taken a very unexpected high bounce but that doesn't explain how he whiffed to the side.
 
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krosero

Legend
In addition to Borg, I've also got Graf whiffing on a Seles serve, in the 1996 USO final.

I put that down as an ace for Seles.
 

krosero

Legend
Can I be his third?:)

Incidentally the weapons should be either modern racquets or wood racquests. It'll be like Vijay Amritraj using a tennis racquet like a sword in that James Bond movie.
I'm not participating in any duel with modern racquets! If we're going to go back to the 18th century let's do it right.

That's Federer whiff could be the most embarrassing match point or at least up there if it's not the most memorable. It's hard to tell if the ball curled off to the side. I thought it could have taken a very unexpected high bounce but that doesn't explain how he whiffed to the side.
I was just watching it here:

http://www.iviewtube.com/videos/151540/federer-whiffs-match-point-vs-rafael-nadal-(madrid-2010-final)

The ball is going ad court to ad court, like it should. It appears to end up, though, on the deuce side of the center service line, by the time it reaches the backstop. It seems to start heading that way from the moment it bounces, though it's difficult to tell.

Incidentally one site I just found says that on replays it seems possible that Federer's racquet does not miss the ball entirely, which is why I suggested he might have grazed the fuzz of the ball like I've seen sometimes when doing stats (I've spent some time on those because to judge what's a clean winner I've had to replay some shots in slo-mo).

I'm not saying it wasn't a whiff, just saying.

And it happens to the best.
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
Graf whiffed on an overhead vs Sanchez in the '96 W Final. But she was fast enough to run back & hit a fh before it bounced twice(lost the point though)

I recall El Aynaoui intentionally whiffing on an overhead, then hitting a drop volley vs Todd Martin at the USO one year. Martin was not pleased. Commentators said Nastase used to do that a lot.
 

krosero

Legend
Graf whiffed on an overhead vs Sanchez in the '96 W Final. But she was fast enough to run back & hit a fh before it bounced twice(lost the point though)
I remember her doing that at Wimbledon, though I'd forgotten what year or match.

That was pretty astounding, that she could have a second chance on her own shot.
 

krosero

Legend
GRAF: TERRIF DESPITE WHIFF

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/GRAF:...ERMAN+WINS+100TH+TITLE,+SEVENTH...-a083953791

But Sanchez Vicario held for 4-1 and broke in the next game, which included the humiliating miss by Graf on a simple overhead near the net. Like many a hacker, she ran around the ball to swipe at it again, and flipped it over with a forehand. But Sanchez Vicario pounced on that and slapped it for an easy winner.

"I don't think it happened to me before,'' Graf said. "It was a little embarrassing out there. There was no bug, no nothing around me, nothing I can blame. I thought I had it. I don't know what happened.''
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
I will be your second, Hood. Always wanted to be a second in a duel.

But can we make it around 11 or noon? Dawn is too early for me.

But of course, I bow to your most civilized offer of a more gentlemanly hour. Noon it is.

PC, would you please bring the weapons, er um, racquets. I'll go with my old trusty Jack Kramer Pro Staff 4 5/8 medium strung with VS gut, mais bien sur.

PC, please enquire of the second of Monsieur Aphex, what weapon he would prefer? I insist only that it be wood. A Maxply Forte would be most appropriate.
 
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krosero

Legend
But of course, I bow to your most civilized offer of a more gentlemanly hour. Noon it is.

PC, would you please bring the weapons, er um, racquets. I'll go with my old trusty Jack Kramer Pro Staff 4 5/8 medium strung with VS gut, mais bien sur.

PC, Please enquire of the second of Monsieur Aphex, what weapon he would prefer? I insist only that it be wood. A Maxply Forte would be most appropriate.
I will bring the white gloves. I want to have the chance to give someone the Glove Slap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P16J0ejFToY
 
Lol Hoodjem, you guys are funny. I need to find that Borg-McEnroe World Tennis Cover with them set to "duel" for this thread. That was a classic magazine cover, with both decked out in period clothing and holding classic pistols soon after the Wimbledon final I believe. Do you all remember that 1980 cover?

how-to-fight-a-duel-3.jpg


That Federer-Nadal match point was truly bizarre. The shot's bounce may have caught him a bit off guard, but I would say that was mostly a mental lapse. I thought Federer actually played pretty well in that match especially at the outset, but that was a major whiff. That was the first match they played after many months. Now at the World Tour Finals, it was a different story. The Nadal-Murray SF was a war, with Nadal taking it 7-6 in the third set. Here are the highlights, including a nice winner by Nadal on match point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxVC_snwY2M
 

*breaksracquet

Semi-Pro
Here are mine (no particular order):

Agassi vs. Ivanisevic 92 wimbly (my first tennis final I ever watched)
Agassi vs Medvedev 99 FO final (where Agassi cried)
Sampras vs. courier 95 SF AO (courier a great man through that match for sampras)
Sampras vs. Agassi 2001 USO (great final all-round)
Rafa vs. Fed 2009 AO final (where fed cried)
Rafa vs. Soderling 2010 FO final (where Rafa cried)
Fed Vs. Soderling for the 2009 French Open (where fed finally did it)
Fed Vs. A-Rod for 2009 Wimbly (15th title, where I shed a few tears of joy)
Verdasco vs. ferrer 2010 USO (FH hooking around net post for MP, my favorite MP shot)
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
But of course, I bow to your most civilized offer of a more gentlemanly hour. Noon it is.

PC, would you please bring the weapons, er um, racquets. I'll go with my old trusty Jack Kramer Pro Staff 4 5/8 medium strung with VS gut, mais bien sur.

PC, please enquire of the second of Monsieur Aphex, what weapon he would prefer? I insist only that it be wood. A Maxply Forte would be most appropriate.
I will insist on the Maxply Forte for them and I will guard your Kramer very carefully.

I just afraid of the new technology with these new racquets. These new racquets could be more dangerous than Excalibur. I understand the Tennis Shops demand that the worthy recipients of these racquets have to pull them out of stone.

We're going to have to have Laver, Borg and Rosewall touch the Kramer wood racquets for luck so everything will be equal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jS-1EqN9X8




I will bring the white gloves. I want to have the chance to give someone the Glove Slap.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P16J0ejFToY

That sounds like the best part. :)
 
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10SDude

New User
One of the most dramatic match points I remember seeing was when Jimmy Connors was down match point (maybe 6-5 in the 5th set) at the US Open in the early 1980's. I couldn't recall the opponent or year, but looking back at his US Open record, I am fairly certain that it had to be his 3rd round match against Andres Gomez in 1981. I remember watching the match on TV and Gomez looked to have the match won. Gomez was at the net and hit a great shot almost out of reach to Connors' backhand side (would have been out of reach for anyone else). Connors was on the dead run and hit a one handed backhand (either flat or topspin - definitely not a slice) past Gomez. The match was essentially over as Connors runs through the rest of the match in a fifth set breaker. I looked for a youtube clip of this point but could not find one. Maybe someone out there can find this as it was as exciting as any of his 1991 US Open matches.
 
One of the most dramatic match points I remember seeing was when Jimmy Connors was down match point (maybe 6-5 in the 5th set) at the US Open in the early 1980's. I couldn't recall the opponent or year, but looking back at his US Open record, I am fairly certain that it had to be his 3rd round match against Andres Gomez .....

I think you're probably thinking of Connors/Panatta...in 78.
 

BTURNER

Legend
I'll bet Evert won't soon forget that match point in the '88 Wimbledon semi. The world minus Martina and a line judge thought Chris got a lousy and very delayed call on a glorious cross-court pass that hit the net and the line. Centre court made their views known . But Evert handled it well even knowing it was problably her last serious effort at a Wimbledon final http://www.facebook.com/chrissieevert?v=app_2373072738#!/video/video.php?v=1291764778732

She says to this day that Martina influenced that call with her stare.
 
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10SDude

New User
Thanks Datacipher - you are correct. It was Connors/Panatta.

Thanks Moose for finding the video. That is exactly the point I remember. I enjoyed watching that point again after all those years, and thanks for clarifying my memory!
 

jrepac

Hall of Fame
I'll bet Evert won't soon forget that match point in the '88 Wimbledon semi. The world minus Martina and a line judge thought Chris got a lousy and very delayed call on a glorious cross-court pass that hit the net and the line. Centre court made their views known . But Evert handled it well even knowing it was problably her last serious effort at a Wimbledon final http://www.facebook.com/chrissieevert?v=app_2373072738#!/video/video.php?v=1291764778732

She says to this day that Martina influenced that call with her stare.


Chrissie got screwed on that one; Martina really should have allowed a replay...but, she might've lost! That was a real doozy of a match.
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
Chrissie got screwed on that one; Martina really should have allowed a replay...but, she might've lost!

Seriously? this was 1988, not 1958, pros should just play the calls. esp since the ball was behind Martina, how could she really see it better than the linesman? and her offering a replay would have made her look worse, she had no play on that ball - it was either in or out, so the only thing she could have done if she felt it was in was to give Chris the point, which could be one of the all time dumbest things any player could have done in that situation. hell would freeze over before anyone on tour today would do that on match point.

I don't think fans today truly realize just how bad officiating used to be, even in the 80s. I think Wimbledon only used their own officials until late in the decade(no ATP or WTA touring umpires/linesman were used there at all! just some guys who only work queens & wimbledon getting to run the biggest event in the world. can you imagine the uproar today if players had to deal with that sort of amateur crew? and that umpire in the clip was really bad, the ball was called out, he knew it & just decided to wait 10 seconds to announce the score, making martina look like the bad guy. geez.)
 

DMan

Professional
I'll bet Evert won't soon forget that match point in the '88 Wimbledon semi. The world minus Martina and a line judge thought Chris got a lousy and very delayed call on a glorious cross-court pass that hit the net and the line. Centre court made their views known . But Evert handled it well even knowing it was problably her last serious effort at a Wimbledon final http://www.facebook.com/chrissieevert?v=app_2373072738#!/video/video.php?v=1291764778732

She says to this day that Martina influenced that call with her stare.

Ah this is one of those great legendary tales, 'oh how Chrissie got screwed'. Well, not quite.

Listen, I wanted Chris to win that match. But it was not as horrific as everyone makes it out to be. Even in the post match commentary, they talk about how "late" the call was. When in fact, when you watch the replay, the linesperson made the call immediately. Both with his hand and calling it. Yes, the ball was very close (and yeah, it might have been in). And while the umpire did have a slight delay, the crowd reaction, with all the noise, was the reason why he didn't say Game, Set, Match right away.

Of course Chris thought it was in, as did most of the Centre Court fans, since they were rooting for her. But as Chris said in the presser, it didn't matter what she thought, the linesperson called it out.

It's always unfortunate when a potentially controversial line call ends a really close match (no one would have been talking about this if it was a routine 6-2,6-2 match). We do now have replay to challenge close calls. Still, the players today aren't always right, and it's amazing how often linespeople get the calls right, even when balls are hit @100mph, with a tremendous amount of spin, and within millimeters of the line.

Oh, and Martina didn't influence the call one iota. The linesperson made the call immediately, without regard for what Martina was doing. Ironic, since Chris was the one who had her share of staring influences over linespeople throughout her career :wink:
 

kiki

Banned
¿How many match points did we enjoy during the 4 set tie breaker at the 1980 Wim final? it was an orgasmatic range, one after the other.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
¿How many match points did we enjoy during the 4 set tie breaker at the 1980 Wim final? it was an orgasmatic range, one after the other.

Borg had 2 championship points at 5-4, 40-15 up in the fourth set when serving for the match, only for McEnroe to win 4 points in a row to break. Borg had another 5 championship points in the fourth set tiebreak, at 6-5, 7-6, 10-9, 11-10 and 12-11. McEnroe eventually won that tiebreak, 18-16, on his 7th set point. Borg finally won the match on his 8th championship point when McEnroe served at 6-7, 15-40 in the fifth set.

One slam final I remember with more championship points than that one, was the 2000 French Open final, where Kuerten beat Norman in the fourth set on his 11th championship point.
 
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hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Borg had 2 championship points at 5-4, 40-15 up in the fourth set when serving for the match, only for McEnroe to win 4 points in a row to break. Borg had another 5 championship points in the fourth set tiebreak, at 6-5, 7-6, 10-9, 11-10 and 12-11. McEnroe eventually won that tiebreak, 18-16, on his 7th set point. Borg finally won the match on his 8th championship point when McEnroe served at 6-7, 15-40 in the fifth set.

One slam final I remember with more championship points than that one, was the 2000 French Open final, where Kuerten beat Norman in the fourth set on his 11th championship point.
Salut! Good memory.
 

kiki

Banned
I think you're probably thinking of Connors/Panatta...in 78.

No, he is right.he had a very tough match vs Panatta at the opening Flushing Meadows, but he is correctly refeering to the 1981 match vs Gomez.Both matches were considered the best of the tournament in 1978 and 1981 ( although in 81 Lendl-Gerulaitis was just as good if not better IMO)
 

kiki

Banned
It's a very cool passing shot, pulled off without much angle to work with. That was my first impression of it: it was a bit of a surprising shot. We've seen it so many times now that the first impression is easily forgotten.

And yes the camera captured the moment beautifully: he happened to turn to the side and collapse in front of the screaming crowds almost as if on cue for the camera.

And then after sitting down he looks straight into the camera with a look that says much more than many screaming reactions. Really one of the best moments in recent years.

...¡ and rumours had that Borg was through a stomach hard pain ....¡ I think there have been too many stories whether Borg was fit or sick in many big matches...
 

kiki

Banned
¿Who recalls double falting in a match point of a GS Final? The 2 great DF I recall were 1969 Ashe to laver at their ( unbelievable) Wimbly Sf and 1977 Connors to Borg at the fifth set of their Wimbly final ( Connors had done the toughest part and was coming back on full stride; that DF killed him definitley)
 

krosero

Legend
...¡ and rumours had that Borg was through a stomach hard pain ....¡ I think there have been too many stories whether Borg was fit or sick in many big matches...
I think that's probably true. And if he had some issue with his stomach muscles, I have a hard time seeing how it could have been serious. He served in the final against McEnroe as well as he ever served. Hard serving, high percentages.
 

kiki

Banned
I think that's probably true. And if he had some issue with his stomach muscles, I have a hard time seeing how it could have been serious. He served in the final against McEnroe as well as he ever served. Hard serving, high percentages.

Again Bergelin´s excuses...
 
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