Features that make a significant difference?

[nyc]

I've been stringing on a basic drop weight machine for over 15 years, and I can produce very consistent results (given the constraints of drop weight and floating clamps), in a decent time frame. It takes me about 20-25 minutes per racquet with poly, including mounting and dismounting, and trimming tie offs and straightening strings. I string about 100 racquets a year, mostly for myself and a few team mates.

Recently however, I have been approached by more people asking to string for them, and I had to turn them down, as I don't think more volume would be very enjoyable with my current machine. I am very used to the process, but there's a few quirks that would really get to me at a larger volume.

So IF I were to upgrade to a better machine with improved ergonomics and a faster, more consistent stringing process, what features should I look for? Which machines (preferably used) should I hunt for?
My budget is about $1200. I don't have the opportunity to try a better machine, so I'm turning to you guys and your wisdom and experience where to put my priorities.

I read through a lot of the similar threads but didn't find a clear answer.

People seem to really like the Wise tensioning head, provided you have a machine that allows for a good ergonomic setup. It is not clear to me that it would provide a faster, more consistent result than, say, a lockout, but please correct me!
I wouldn't be stringing for people that dictate a certain amount of prestretch, so those sort of features are not necessary.

What about fixed swivel vs gliding clamps?

Thanks!

 

[fritzhimself]

I think you're serious - but no matter - any other machine would be an upgrade.
Actually, you can take any one that doesn't have flying clamps.......
But you can hardly get anything good for 1000 nuts - but still something better than what you have now.

 

[loosegroove]

A Wise is no faster than a lockout. They’re quite slow as far as electronic tensioners go. However they require less effort and make it easier to get a consistent result.

 

[Irvin]

So IF I were to upgrade to a better machine with improved ergonomics and a faster, more consistent stringing process, what features should I look for?

Clamps and clamp bases would be my #1 feature to look for.

 

[nyc]

So is something like the Tourna 350 a significant upgrade for speed and consistency?

 

[kblades]

I would reach out to Ivor to inquire about purchasing the 350. Then if you acquire enough business, start setting aside some of the profits to put towards the new Tourna Ennox electric head to upgrade down the road.

 

[nyc]

Who’s Ivor? Is he the Tourna Rep?

 

[nyc]

In any case…thank you…time for more research

 

[kblades]

In any case…thank you…time for more research

Sent you a DM

 

[nyc]

Thanks for everyone's help on this!

I think I have a very good plan. Just need convincing to unlock those funds, but that's on me.

 

[diredesire]

I'm not really sure what you're asking about here, since every "feature" or fundamental building block of a machine is going to be a spectrum. If you jump between categories of the same basic function (e.g. fixed clamps, floating clamps, single action, dual action, etc.), there's going to be better or worse versions of said function. An(other) example would be 6-point outside mounts, there's going to be better or worse versions of said mount. I'm probably being a bit pedantic here, but to just say that a 6-point mount is going to make a big difference isn't really a clear answer that is helpful to you. There are garbage 6-point mounts out there, so if you blindly use that advice and buy the cheapest version of said function, that answer would be doing you a disservice.

If you're looking for "additional" features that are worth down-selecting a machine on, then you're still probably asking the wrong question.* If I were blabbering on like I usually do about machines, I'd advise you to get the best clamps, mounting system, and tensioner that you can. Nowadays, unless you have a preference or a specific reason to buy one, I personally would avoid a crank. Nothing really wrong with them, but there's some compensation that you need to do if you're trying to match a pro-shop's machine, which is almost certainly an electric constant pull. Ironically, there's less offset/compensation required for a dropweight as well. Cranks can obviously be retrofitted with a WISE, etc., but if you're shopping for a higher end machine, I'd just leap frog that upgrade path. With that said, it's going to be quite a challenge to find that nice of a machine for $1200. You could get something like a used Gamma X-ELS/Progression ELS (or similar) for that price, but you may be waiting a long time for one to come up for sale.

If you're getting a reputable, time-proven "solid" machine as a baseline, QoL features would include: Self-centering mounting system, cam-action clamps (or clamps that lock down more positively than just using a glorified screw), adjustable tensioner features (pull speed, pre-stretch, knot functions). Other features that might be deal breakers depending on your level of neuroticism (as you can probably tell, mine is high): 360 degree rotation, V mounts vs. older K-mounts (blocked holes!),

*With that said, "additional" features tend to come along with higher end machines, so if you're seeking bells-and-whistles features, you're probably already buying a great machine...

I feel like somewhere in this wall of text is an answer to your question (??)

 

[mad dog1]

I've been stringing on a basic drop weight machine for over 15 years, and I can produce very consistent results (given the constraints of drop weight and floating clamps), in a decent time frame. It takes me about 20-25 minutes per racquet with poly, including mounting and dismounting, and trimming tie offs and straightening strings. I string about 100 racquets a year, mostly for myself and a few team mates.

Recently however, I have been approached by more people asking to string for them, and I had to turn them down, as I don't think more volume would be very enjoyable with my current machine. I am very used to the process, but there's a few quirks that would really get to me at a larger volume.

So IF I were to upgrade to a better machine with improved ergonomics and a faster, more consistent stringing process, what features should I look for? Which machines (preferably used) should I hunt for?
My budget is about $1200. I don't have the opportunity to try a better machine, so I'm turning to you guys and your wisdom and experience where to put my priorities.

I read through a lot of the similar threads but didn't find a clear answer.

People seem to really like the Wise tensioning head, provided you have a machine that allows for a good ergonomic setup. It is not clear to me that it would provide a faster, more consistent result than, say, a lockout, but please correct me!
I wouldn't be stringing for people that dictate a certain amount of prestretch, so those sort of features are not necessary.

What about fixed swivel vs gliding clamps?

Thanks!

Features to make a significant difference: pro shop quality machine (Babolat Evolution, Wilson Baiardo, Alpha Ghost 2, Solinco Falcon GT, Head TE-3600, etc)

Now that the Prince Neos 1000 and 1500 are discontinued, any machine under $2,000 feels "cheap." If I couldn't spend more than $1,200, I would get the Stringway ML120con-T92 (single action clamps). But I'd rather just spend more and get either the Solinco Falcon GT or Alpha Ghost 2.

For reference, i've owned the following machines.

Eagnas with an electronic rotational string gripper
Eagnas lock out
Ektelon Neos 1000
Gamma 6004 + Wise
Laserfibre table top auto dropweight with T92 single action base clamps (rebadged Stringway)
Babolat Sensor (had to retire due to electronic part failure and replacement parts no longer available)
Alpha Ghost 2 (currently own)

 

[LttlElvis]

20 to 25 min on a drop weight is excellent. Sounds like you have it down. You also say more volume on your current machine wouldn’t be more enjoyable. I’d say any machine with a nice mounting system and fixed clamps would shave off a few more minutes. Maybe 5.

You got to ask yourself, do I really enjoy stringing? Look at that list of machines @mad dog1 bought. Now I know from that list, the guy loves machines and loves to string. Money spent on each of those machines was for the pure pleasure and coolness of owning each one.

Sounds like you’ve had the same drop weight for 15 years with consistent results. Can’t ask for better than that.

Now if you get a new machine with added features, are you doing it for your own enjoyment or trying to increase business? I’m guessing the former which most hobbyists do including myself. Just babbling. Didn’t really answer your questions.

 

[mad dog1]

Look at that list of machines @mad dog1 bought. Now I know from that list, the guy loves machines and loves to string. Money spent on each of those machines was for the pure pleasure and coolness of owning each one.

i actually don't enjoy stringing but i am very particular about my string jobs and i have to do it myself. when i started, i assumed the eagnas machines would do the job just fine based on the reviews available online. once i started stringing, it was obvious how poor the build quality was so i started upgrading. every machine had its compromises. the Neos 1000 was great but because it had glide bar clamps, flying clamps were needed to string fan patterns so i assumed the Gamma 6004 would be a Neos 1000 with swivel bases. then a friend let me borrow his stringway which is constant pull. once i tried constant pull, i knew i couldn't go back to lock out again so i picked up a Wise after reading so many great reviews about it. i thought it was a rickety and loud piece of $h1t. and because i had both the Neos and Gamma at the same time, i was able to compare them side by side and see how lacking the build quality of the Gamma was. it flexed everywhere. what a piece of cr@p. the stringway auto dropweight is very good quality and did a good job but it's very rough around the edges. when i acquired a used sensor, i finally understood why professional quality machines cost what they cost. they are rock solid. everything operates smoothly. every part your hand touches feels high quality. everything is well designed, well thought out, and refined. and it all adds up to allow me to produce a great string job with the least amount of physical effort. and since i'm restringing my racquets every 5-10 hours, i need the experience to be as smooth as possible.

In hindsight, i should have just purchased a professional quality machine such as a baiardo, ghost 2, solinco falcon GT, etc. It would have saved time.

 

[snoflewis]

solid build quality (ie. tighter tolerances, smooth functioning, etc.) is probably the biggest thing for me. it's often hard to appreciate how well built and solid a quality machine is until you have to downgrade. going from a neos 1500 to alpha revo 4000 made me realize that real quick. nothing against a revo, but there wasn't a single part on that machine that didn't squeak and squeal. adding a wise didn't remedy that either. on a baiardo L now, and it's definitely more solid than the neos. one thing i still have not seen here is someone complaining about a better built machine regardless of price.

it's not a popular opinion on these forums, but i'd focus on the quality of everything attached to the turntable and get a dropweight for the tensioner.

 

[diredesire]

i actually don't enjoy stringing but i am very particular about my string jobs and i have to do it myself. when i started, i assumed the eagnas machines would do the job just fine based on the reviews available online. once i started stringing, it was obvious how poor the build quality was so i started upgrading. every machine had its compromises. the Neos 1000 was great but because it had glide bar clamps, flying clamps were needed to string fan patterns so i assumed the Gamma 6004 would be a Neos 1000 with swivel bases. then a friend let me borrow his stringway which is constant pull. once i tried constant pull, i knew i couldn't go back to lock out again so i picked up a Wise after reading so many great reviews about it. i thought it was a rickety and loud piece of $h1t. and because i had both the Neos and Gamma at the same time, i was able to compare them side by side and see how lacking the build quality of the Gamma was. it flexed everywhere. what a piece of cr@p. the stringway auto dropweight is very good quality and did a good job but it's very rough around the edges. when i acquired a used sensor, i finally understood why professional quality machines cost what they cost. they are rock solid. everything operates smoothly. every part your hand touches feels high quality. everything is well designed, well thought out, and refined. and it all adds up to allow me to produce a great string job with the least amount of physical effort. and since i'm restringing my racquets every 5-10 hours, i need the experience to be as smooth as possible.

In hindsight, i should have just purchased a professional quality machine such as a baiardo, ghost 2, solinco falcon GT, etc. It would have saved time.

I'm very similar in my feelings around stringing. I'm not sure I'd say I enjoy it, but I like technical challenges/puzzles. I started on an e.Stringer FL which had similar build quality to the Eagnas machines I've seen. The cone lock clamp bases would never be tightened enough not to slip. There's not even anything particularly wrong with the cone lock design, there's a ton of surface area - just poor mating.

solid build quality (ie. tighter tolerances, smooth functioning, etc.) is probably the biggest thing for me. it's often hard to appreciate how well built and solid a quality machine is until you have to downgrade. going from a neos 1500 to alpha revo 4000 made me realize that real quick. nothing against a revo, but there wasn't a single part on that machine that didn't squeak and squeal. adding a wise didn't remedy that either. on a baiardo L now, and it's definitely more solid than the neos. one thing i still have not seen here is someone complaining about a better built machine regardless of price.

it's not a popular opinion on these forums, but i'd focus on the quality of everything attached to the turntable and get a dropweight for the tensioner.

Yeah, it's one of those rites of passage, though. I 100% understand not wanting to dump a couple thousand dollars on something you don't know you'll commit to. I can't fault anyone for going through the same upgrade path to get to the more "serious" machines. I also can't argue with people who find the lower end machines to be completely sufficent. It's true that they all get the job done. It's a similar argument to buying a luxury car vs. $2000 beater. They both get you from point A to point B, but both sides are missing the others' points.

 

[mad dog1]

Yeah, it's one of those rites of passage, though. I 100% understand not wanting to dump a couple thousand dollars on something you don't know you'll commit to. I can't fault anyone for going through the same upgrade path to get to the more "serious" machines. I also can't argue with people who find the lower end machines to be completely sufficent. It's true that they all get the job done. It's a similar argument to buying a luxury car vs. $2000 beater. They both get you from point A to point B, but both sides are missing the others' points.

i share my experience hoping that it can help others who are looking to purchase a stringing machine or upgrade make the right decision. if i had a chance to do it all over again, i would just purchase a baiardo, ghost 2, falcon gt type machine. would have saved me alot of time and money. the only positives i can think of in doing what i did is that i'm able to share my personal experiences using all of those different machines.

 

[LocNetMonster]

From a more pragmatic stance, if you are stringing 100 frames a year and labor locally is $18/frame, that's $1,800. Add five extra racquets a month, there's another $1,080. Sell your drop-weight for $200 and you can invest in a $3k machine, which pays for itself in just over a year. It is a no-brainer. If I was in your shoes, I would just set the money aside and patiently wait for a used crank machine to pop up and go all in.

 

[nyc]

So...lot's of great input and viewpoints here

The fact that I don't even know what questions to ask, is a clear indication how little I actually know about stringing machines, despite being a bit of a gear head.

@diredesire I understand that every "feature" is on a sliding scale - what I meant to ask is how I should prioritize said features and I think you answered that

And yes, @LocNetMonster if I were in it to build a business, I would absolutely get a top tier machine as I undoubtedly could pay it off in a short period of time. Currently I string for other people in exchange for beer, String Reels and Cases of Balls...so not officially a biz....LOL I think I would need to get at least a Racquet Technician Certification as not to feel like an imposter if I were to string for a wider audience and actually run it as a business.

BUT I'm very reluctant to go down that path. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I actually don't really enjoy stringing and was hoping that a Porsche of a machine will make stringing more enjoyable to me, and maybe shave some time off of each job. It does sound though that $1200 is an unrealistic budget to significantly improve the experience...and $2k is more realistic (and likely on the low end at that)

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[sixtyseries]

Yea, honestly, I think if you don’t enjoy it then invest your time somewhere else. I like stringing, but only string for myself and wouldn’t want to go beyond that. Gear is awesome, but if you are dreading the pile of rackets to string it’s not gonna be worth the money, at least in my view. Invest in something else that you really enjoy, you’ll be motivated to go further!

 

[snoflewis]

BUT I'm very reluctant to go down that path. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I actually don't really enjoy stringing and was hoping that a Porsche of a machine will make stringing more enjoyable to me, and maybe shave some time off of each job. It does sound though that $1200 is an unrealistic budget to significantly improve the experience...and $2k is more realistic (and likely on the low end at that)

I absolutely hate stringing and only string for myself because of it. People have offered more than i would even charge, and i always decline. I found that a better machine will not make it more enjoyable. The few minutes you save compared to a dropweight likely won't make you change your mind unless you are stringing often. I bought a nicer machine for one reason... even if i'm stringing once a week, i'll make my money back in a few years on labor costs alone. The time lost while stringing is equivalent to the time spent driving to the shop to drop and pickup the stick. It was purely a business decision. It is nice to string on a nicer machine, but i still hate doing it

 

[ChrisJR3264]

So...lot's of great input and viewpoints here

The fact that I don't even know what questions to ask, is a clear indication how little I actually know about stringing machines, despite being a bit of a gear head.

@diredesire I understand that every "feature" is on a sliding scale - what I meant to ask is how I should prioritize said features and I think you answered that

And yes, @LocNetMonster if I were in it to build a business, I would absolutely get a top tier machine as I undoubtedly could pay it off in a short period of time. Currently I string for other people in exchange for beer, String Reels and Cases of Balls...so not officially a biz....LOL I think I would need to get at least a Racquet Technician Certification as not to feel like an imposter if I were to string for a wider audience and actually run it as a business.

BUT I'm very reluctant to go down that path. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I actually don't really enjoy stringing and was hoping that a Porsche of a machine will make stringing more enjoyable to me, and maybe shave some time off of each job. It does sound though that $1200 is an unrealistic budget to significantly improve the experience...and $2k is more realistic (and likely on the low end at that)

Thanks for everyone's help!

it’s purely cost effective for me in the long run to string my own rackets. As labor charges increase plus commute, it’s easier for me to just go my office room and do my own racket.

It’s therapeutic for me to string sometimes. Then I grew my work into a small side hustle and while that wasn’t too bad - I can see where it doesn’t seem enjoyable to string for others bc of certain “personalities” and “expectations” to prioritize them quickly.

In terms of equipment - I was using a lockout. Was fine but I definitely got what I paid for in terms of quality (not an ektelon or Neos). I’ve strung on ECP and drop weights in college. if/when I get my machine - I’m definitely going with one that’s tournament grade. Should last in the long run. My goal is to build up a clientele to pay it off over a year - maybe less. Long term - keep the circle of clients small but that could vary.
I do enjoy stringing and mentioned that it can be therapeutic. But where it becomes tiresome is delivering a service to others plus working a full time job.
It could be unenjoyable when having to string 3 rackets for someone getting home from work at 7 pm on certain days or if your day job is stressful could make your hobby(turned side hustle) also stressful.

 

[diredesire]

So...lot's of great input and viewpoints here

The fact that I don't even know what questions to ask, is a clear indication how little I actually know about stringing machines, despite being a bit of a gear head.

@diredesire I understand that every "feature" is on a sliding scale - what I meant to ask is how I should prioritize said features and I think you answered that

And yes, @LocNetMonster if I were in it to build a business, I would absolutely get a top tier machine as I undoubtedly could pay it off in a short period of time. Currently I string for other people in exchange for beer, String Reels and Cases of Balls...so not officially a biz....LOL I think I would need to get at least a Racquet Technician Certification as not to feel like an imposter if I were to string for a wider audience and actually run it as a business.

BUT I'm very reluctant to go down that path. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I actually don't really enjoy stringing and was hoping that a Porsche of a machine will make stringing more enjoyable to me, and maybe shave some time off of each job. It does sound though that $1200 is an unrealistic budget to significantly improve the experience...and $2k is more realistic (and likely on the low end at that)

Thanks for everyone's help!

Yeah, the trick with the spectrum of goodness is that they all tend to scale together as price goes up. It's also not common to be able to cherry pick the parts recipe that you want. The exception that comes to mind (since I've been looking at them a lot) are the StringMaster machines. They have options (not necessarily in stock) of high/mid/low end clamps and tensioners. It looks like most of the machines have quite good mounting systems. IF it's true they no longer ship to the US, then you're kind of stuck just buying at price tiers. It's very uncommon to have high-end clamps but mediocre everything else, for example. If you prioritize top-tier clamps, then the rest of the features come along for the ride.

So I think you ended up at the right conclusion - $2K is on the low end these days. You used to be able to get a prosumer grade machine for that price, if you're really patient, you might be able to snag a used machine for that price! I've seen a handful of Babolat Sensors go that cheap in recent months, but you roll the dice with serviceability and repairability with some of the pro-tier machines that are old.

 

[LocNetMonster]

I actually don't really enjoy stringing

If you don't enjoy it and it's not a side hustle, I don't believe buying a better machine will make it any more enjoyable for you. You are better off staying the course.