Fed 11, Rafa 13, Stan 15 - who produced the higher level to stop Nole at RG?e
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nadal as I feel Djokovic played a stronger match against him than against Fed and especially Stan.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Its not about pitting them against each other, just what they produced v Novak in that specific match.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Novak tanked the third set, and Nadal choked the fourth. 5th set was legendary though.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Nadal ofc. Federer was great, but also servebotted his way to victory. You know there's something very wrong with clay conditions when you have 40+% unret. vs. one of the best returners on tour.
Djoko with 2013 mindset prob gets it done in 2015.
I'd say: Nadal>Fed=Stan,
Djoko 2013>2011>2015.
Djoko with 2013 mindset prob gets it done in 2015.
I'd say: Nadal>Fed=Stan,
Djoko 2013>2011>2015.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
You think Djokovic was losing RG 2011 to Nadal in the final?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I mean Tsitsipas generated 0 BPs in 3 straight sets on clay in this year's final.
I onow he's not a great returner, but Djokovic still servebotted against him.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Which is why I said any field etc...as that encompasses their standard of play. If not for a mild choke Nadal comfortably wins their 2013 match in four sets and hit another gear in that fifth compared to the Fed/Wawa. Fed was extremely clutch against the most even Djokovic performance and probably 2015 was Djok's worst match so Stan goes last IMO,
Hitman
Bionic Poster
It was the lighter balls that lead to more aggressive play in 2011.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
This was the match that I think Novak looked mentally beaten in the most.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
I know. Flip of a coin match, too, which is why I think it would be an uphill battle for Federer in regular conditions.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Agree. Plus the level never really fluctuated too much in this match, Djokovic was on his monster run with supreme confidence and Federer was hell bent on stopping him no matter what. Very aggressive match.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I mean Fed was almost 30 vs Djokovic at his very best. Of course it was going to be a flip coin of a match.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Not really, don't have the stats, but the percentage of aces and unret. can't be anywhere near that.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Well, 42% free points on serve is rare even on grass, let alone clay. Under normal circumstances, low chance of that happening.
Granted, Fed would still have a chance, after all he brought the whole package, not just the serve. But, regular balls would work in Djoko's favor, and bring Fed's chances down.
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maratha_warrior
Hall of Fame
Easily Nadal .
To beat Novak , you have to beat him in 3 or 4 sets .
When the game goes to 5th set , Novak is very difficult to beat .
At RG 2013 , Novak was playing at very high level in the 5th set .
Nadal hit 22 winners to stop Novak there .
I don't think any other player would have stopped Novak in that 5th set ,except Nadal ..
Nadal brought his highest level in 5th set .
Second is Federer ,and last comes Stan .
Nadal 2013> Fed 2011> Stan 2015
To beat Novak , you have to beat him in 3 or 4 sets .
When the game goes to 5th set , Novak is very difficult to beat .
At RG 2013 , Novak was playing at very high level in the 5th set .
Nadal hit 22 winners to stop Novak there .
I don't think any other player would have stopped Novak in that 5th set ,except Nadal ..
Nadal brought his highest level in 5th set .
Second is Federer ,and last comes Stan .
Nadal 2013> Fed 2011> Stan 2015
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Biotic
Hall of Fame
True. Nadal just wouldn't miss in that 5th set after getting broken, and yet he needed Djoko's ultimate choke to make it count.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Doesn't matter, BOATov1c was off else he'd have beaten them all obviously.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
If Djokovic doesn't choke, even Nadal's absolute best at RG is not enough to take him down. Nadal must be super lucky Djokovic kept choking at RG for some unfathomable reason.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic was lucky to bring it to a 5th set anyway though. Ultimately 2013 Nadal bulldozes 2011 Federer and 2015 Wawrinka so it's a dumb question to begin with.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
You must be super lucky i post here, you're chances of continued survival in this unintelligent and uninspired form would be very low otherwise.
abmk
Bionic Poster
For a ~30 yo old Federer yes. the conditions equalized djokovic's age advantage.
if both were of same age and regular conditions, result would've been similar.
But a Djokovic obssessed fanatic like you won't mention Djokovic's age advantage.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
You're, indeed.
Don't get your hopes up I'd die while you jackasses continue to live, anyway.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Novak was stellar in the fourth. Nadal was a bit passive but I wouldn't say he choked at all, the level was very high. Djokovic really went to town on Nadal's second serve.
Nadal's fifth set level was absurd and beats any non-Nadal player of the last 20 years.
The first 3 sets were kinda forgettable though.
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ForehandRF
Legend
It doesn't matter because neither played as well as Paul-Henri Mathieu did in the 2006 match.
Just joking 
abmk
Bionic Poster
Federer in RG 11 semi over Nadal in RG 13 slightly due to fed being clutcher to close it off in 4 sets. Nadal didn't choke in the RG 13 semi 4th set, but he didn't bring good enough level either at that time.
But if Fed RG 11 semi vs Nadal RG 13 semi faced off, Nadal is obviously favored.
But if Fed RG 11 semi vs Nadal RG 13 semi faced off, Nadal is obviously favored.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
He came in with an amazing season, winning EVERYTHING - even having humiliated King of Clay en route to the RG final...
- mentally beaten in the final -
... then winning everything again...
Sometimes the player on the other side of the net is just better. Stan played an amazing match.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Mentality is directly correlated with comfort level. Djokovic knew that Stan could actually go toe to toe with him so outlasting him from the baseline wasn't an option for Djokovic anymore.
OTOH against aging Fed, Novak was mentally tough because he knew he wouldn't have to exit his comfort zone.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Not saying the other guy was not better on the day, but a zoning Djokovic doesn't go so passive in his game play either. Stan legit won, but lets not make it out like Djokovic was green lighting it either, he got quite passive as the match went on, feeding a lot of balls without changing it up to Stan.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Are you referring to the RG 2011 match in your last line?
Because Stan and Fed were about the same age when they beat Novak. Faster conditions actually helped Fed more, which should have unsettled Novak, as he knew Roger could play more aggressive first strike tennis instead of grinding each point out.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Which is directly related to Stan's high level that day. Stan also served incredibly and his forehand was firing like never before. He played every point with intent.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
By aging Fed, I mean post 2012 Fed.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Djokovic matched Stan's high level at AO 2013, USO 2013 and AO 2014 but not here. So no, it was not just about Stan's level, as good as he was, Novak can match him, but that day, he retreated more into his shell, kudos to Stan to take it to Novak though.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Sure, but the focal point here is 2011 Fed, not post 2012 Fed.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I know, just comparing Novak's mentality against Stan vis a vis Roger in Novak's 2nd best period when he was mentally tough.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Did I say it was "just about Stan's level"? No, I didn't.
But I think, out of the mentioned alternatives, Stan RG15 is underrated.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Sure, but people forget, Djokovic took Wawrinka out in five sets at AO that very same year also. So he can do it, but of course it is tougher, however at RG, instead of pushing back like he had each time before, this time he faded.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Your statement implied it when you said it was directly related to Stan's level, without mentioning there were other factors in play, which I then brought up
RS
Bionic Poster
Does Djokovic win RG without the faster balls that year and/or without the 4 day layoff ?
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Ok, semantics then. My point was Stan's performance was the most dominant of the three. And from my point of view, Novak looked brilliant. He had the best season in the history of tennis, he beat Rafa in the QF, Murray in the SF - even won the first set in the final and was ready to win his first RG. But Stan was a better player that day and turned the match more and more in his favour.
I remember seing it and thinking; there's no way Stan loses today - even after the first set loss. He was on a mission, and I it developed into the most dominant of the alternatives in OP - as I see it
RS
Bionic Poster
question
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Ok, semantics then. My point was Stan's performance was the most dominant of the three. And from my point of view, Novak looked brilliant. He had the best season in the history of tennis, he beat Rafa in the QF, Murray in the SF - even won the first set in the final and was ready to win his first RG. But Stan was a better player that day and turned the match more and more in his favour.
I remember seing it and thinking; there's no way Stan loses today - even after the first set loss. He was on a mission, and I it developed into the most dominant of the alternatives in OP - as I see it
That is fine.
RS
Bionic Poster
Okay so in other words yes you think he does win RG 11
