Fed 11, Rafa 13, Stan 15 - who produced the higher level to stop Nole at RG?e

Who produced the best performance in stopping Novak at RG?

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Nadal in the 5th set of that 2013 RG semi against Djokovic was hitting ridiculous winners despite being down a service break for the first half of that set.

I lost count of the number of monster forehands Nadal unleashed for clean winners and all Djokovic could do was watch on in disbelief as it looked like he had the upper hand during the point.
 
Hayole said:
I'd say easily Nadal as beating him at RG is hardest task in tennis
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ChaelAZ said:
Nadal at RG is the biggest ask of almost any sport. Bar none.
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So the player who is by far the best player of all time on clay had to bring the very best level - and almost lost to Djokovic?

Must mean Djokovic (2 titles) and Nadal (13) are almost the same level at RG?

Djokovic at RG13 had a very negative W/UE account. Close match doesn't automatically mean super high level.
 
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I rewatched the 2013 semi recently and it was a lot more error-filled than I remembered it, although the fifth set was amazing.
Wawrinka was awesome in the 2015 final, but Djokovic looked flat for the most part.

I would go with the 2011 semi. Took a master class performance from Fed to bring down that Djoker.

How 2013 Rafa would play against Fed/Wawa from those years is not relavent...he's a nightmare match up for both of them especially on clay. Not so with Djokovic, if anything it's the other way around.
 
Garro said:
I rewatched the 2013 semi recently and it was a lot more error-filled than I remembered it, although the fifth set was amazing.
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Djoko had a bad stretch from late in the 1st set to early in the 2nd. Plus he tanked the 3rd set after Nadal broke serve on a bad call. That aside, he played great and took 2nd and 4th set with his own brilliant play.

Nadal had almost no dips in form over 5 sets, maybe a game here or a game there, granted he didn't hit his true peak level until the 5th.

Generally speaking, a match between GOAT defenders like Nadal and Djokovic during their primes was going to end with more errors than winners, that's was nature of the match-up without being that compromising for the quality.

Just a reminder that both Nadal and Federer had negative W/UE ratio in the AO 09 final, possibly the best shotmaking contest of all times.
 
InsideOut900 said:
Just a reminder that both Nadal and Federer had negative W/UE ratio in the AO 09 final, possibly the best shotmaking contest of all times.
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no, they didn't. In AO 2009 final,
Fed had 71 winners to 64 UEs (+7)
Nadal had 50 winners to 41 UEs (+9)

Australian Open Tennis Championships 2009 - Scores - The Grand Slam of Asia/Pacific - Official Site by IBM

Australian Open Tennis 2009 Scores and Statistics - The Official site designed, built and hosted by IBM.
web.archive.org
 
abmk said:
no, they didn't. In AO 2009 final,
Fed had 71 winners to 64 UEs (+7)
Nadal had 50 winners to 41 UEs (+9)

Australian Open Tennis Championships 2009 - Scores - The Grand Slam of Asia/Pacific - Official Site by IBM

Australian Open Tennis 2009 Scores and Statistics - The Official site designed, built and hosted by IBM.
web.archive.org
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Well, TA has Fed at 64W - 67UE and Nadal at 44W - 58UE.

Truth is probably in the middle as TA charters are usually quite harsh, while official AO stats are more forgiving.

Either way, the point is that it was nowhere near a match like say Nadal-Verdasco in terms of match stats and that a match between two insanely athletic baseliners isn't always just a winner hitting contest.

Not sure why you singled out just that bit of my other post
 
Martin J said:
Yeah, wanted to ask the same. I am sure he couldn't care less about consecutive wins in a single year, all he cared about was winning the titles.
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Winning that match in 2011 would've made him number 1 in the world for the first time, which was a big deal to him. That was what made him nervous, more than the streak.
 
Biotic said:
LOL, it's just a couple of nobodies lurking my every post. It's kinda flattering tbh. Half of em are firmly in my ignore cesspit anyway.
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Djokoheads of late have been insufferable, hence the unfortunate lumping. In fact it's precisely because you, @NoleFam and other saner Novak fans are willing to engage that y'all are bearing the brunt of the backlash, which otherwise falls on the deaf ears of the usual lemmings talking to nobody but themselves.

abmk said:
meh, you are too focussed on the numbers here instead of the progression of events.

13 - Djokovic got Nadal at Monte Carlo final, but was upset at Rome/Madrid both of which Nadal won albeit with some hiccups (Gulbis/Ferrer IIRC)
Nadal had a below par 1st 3 rounds at RG 13 by his standards, but was up and roaring by the time of the Nishi 4R match and the Wawa QF match.
Yes 15 wawa would fare better than 17 RG final wawa vs 13 RG nadal did because 17 wawa was coming up from a draining 5-setter vs Murray. He'd take a set is my guess. But he'd lose obviously.

Easy to say that about 11 RG Nadal now, but Nadal looked more vulnerable than ever before (lost Madrid/Rome to Djoko) and had got into a 5-setter vs Isner in 1st round. that set vs andujar was hilarious choking from Andujar after he got Nadal in that set. Obviously Nadal upped his level from 4th round onwards, but it sure as hell was going 5 sets vs fed in the final if fed had held up mentally. I mean you can't attribute put a missed dropshot by fed on 5-2, SP (by an inch or so) to nadal's good play, right?
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But all this is moot if you ultimately agree Rafa would best '11 Fed or '15 Stan, no? That's what I meant by the outcome remaining the same, not that neither would also be able to push Bull to 5.

nah, Djokovic was playing excellent at RG 11. One of his 3 best along with 13 and 16.
If you don't find his RG 11 form impressive, not sure what you'd say about 12/14 and 15 SF/F.

His BH DTL was not working well that day vs fed, maybe partly due to the break, but fed also mixed it up really well making him more error prone.
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I've actually long maintained that dirtballing Djoko has been stronger at Masters than at RG, so I'm just following my script when I say the Novak we saw at '11 Madrid and Rome wasn't the same Djoker we saw later at RG.

And the 5-set SF in '15 was to be expected cuz that was Muzz at his very dirtballing best. Doubt even Rafa except in his peakest form knocks him out in straights that year. In the final Novak was indeed too passive, yes, perhaps due to that grueling 5-setter.

Also Tsonga played some cracking tennis in the '12 QF and I actually consider it one of Novak's best Ws at RG. And he stole a set from Rafa who was at worst having one of his 3 most dominant seasons. Not bad, I'd say better than his '11 run.

I didn't really follow '14 RG so I'll take your word for it, but then '08 is another run that can be said to be superior to '11. Or put another way, '08 Novak vs. '11 Fed probably goes to 5.

Maybe '11 is among Novak's top 5, but can't agree with top 3. '11 Djoker started out too slow in the SF to earn that distinction.
 
NonP said:
But all this is moot if you ultimately agree Rafa would best '11 Fed or '15 Stan, no? That's what I meant by the outcome remaining the same, not that neither would also be able to push Bull to 5.
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more likely than not, yes.

NonP said:
And the 5-set SF in '15 was to be expected cuz that was Muzz at his very dirtballing best. Doubt even Rafa except in his peakest form knocks him out in straights that year. In the final Novak was indeed too passive, yes, perhaps due to that grueling 5-setter.
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Djoko could've finished it off in 4 sets. No need to go to 5 sets.
I do think quite a few could've finished off Murray in straight sets as well.

NonP said:
Also Tsonga played some cracking tennis in the '12 QF and I actually consider it one of Novak's best Ws at RG. And he stole a set from Rafa who was at worst having one of his 3 most dominant seasons. Not bad, I'd say better than his '11 run.
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Djoko was down 2 sets to love vs Seppi in 4R of RG 2012.
And Djokovic was down 4 MPs vs tsonga. Hardly what I'd consider top form Djoko. definitely way worse than 11 RG and I don't think its particularly close.
Tsonga played well for only 2 and half sets in that match (from 2nd set of 2nd set till end of 4th set). He was horrible in 1st set, 5th set and meh in 1st part of 2nd set.
I mean it was a hard fought win against a good opponent, don't get me wrong. Just that you'd be thinking far too less of Djoker if you think that's top form of his at RG. That 2 and half sets of Tsonga playing well after being terrible for a set&meh for half a set was enough to bring top form Djokovic almost to his knees (MPs no less).


NonP said:
I didn't really follow '14 RG so I'll take your word for it, but then '08 is another run that can be said to be superior to '11. Or put another way, '08 Novak vs. '11 Fed probably goes to 5.
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nah. 11 Djoko just had the superior defence (and stamina) to 08 Djoko. One very good patch of play in 3rd set vs Nadal after Nadal had let his guard down a bit doesn't make 08 DJoko better.

NonP said:
Maybe '11 is among Novak's top 5, but can't agree with top 3. '11 Djoker started out too slow in the SF to earn that distinction.
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slow start? what are you talking about? Djoko was up 4-2 in the first set.
 
NonP said:
Djokoheads of late have been insufferable, hence the unfortunate lumping. In fact it's precisely because you, @NoleFam and other saner Novak fans are willing to engage that y'all are bearing the brunt of the backlash, which otherwise falls on the deaf ears of the usual lemmings talking to nobody but themselves.



But all this is moot if you ultimately agree Rafa would best '11 Fed or '15 Stan, no? That's what I meant by the outcome remaining the same, not that neither would also be able to push Bull to 5.



I've actually long maintained that dirtballing Djoko has been stronger at Masters than at RG, so I'm just following my script when I say the Novak we saw at '11 Madrid and Rome wasn't the same Djoker we saw later at RG.

And the 5-set SF in '15 was to be expected cuz that was Muzz at his very dirtballing best. Doubt even Rafa except in his peakest form knocks him out in straights that year. In the final Novak was indeed too passive, yes, perhaps due to that grueling 5-setter.

Also Tsonga played some cracking tennis in the '12 QF and I actually consider it one of Novak's best Ws at RG. And he stole a set from Rafa who was at worst having one of his 3 most dominant seasons. Not bad, I'd say better than his '11 run.

I didn't really follow '14 RG so I'll take your word for it, but then '08 is another run that can be said to be superior to '11. Or put another way, '08 Novak vs. '11 Fed probably goes to 5.

Maybe '11 is among Novak's top 5, but can't agree with top 3. '11 Djoker started out too slow in the SF to earn that distinction.
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Too much sense for this place... Just a minor correction, I'm not engaging anyone lately, it's that particular entity that's constantly tryna pull me and everyone else down in that lifeless hole he ended up after 2021 RG.

On another note, nice of you mentioning 2012 QF win over Tsonga, which was spectacular, contrary to what few fednatics around here would like us to believe.

The question that arises is would Federer be just as average looking at 2012 RG SF in 2011-like conditions, considering he had just won 2012 Madrid on servebot friendly surface?
 
Biotic said:
Too much sense for this place... Just a minor correction, I'm not engaging anyone lately, it's that particular entity that's constantly tryna pull me and everyone else down in that lifeless hole he ended up after 2021 RG.

On another note, nice of you mentioning 2012 QF win over Tsonga, which was spectacular, contrary to what few fednatics around here would like us to believe.

The question that arises is would Federer be just as average looking at 2012 RG SF in 2011-like conditions, considering he had just won 2012 Madrid on servebot friendly surface?
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Fed struggled at Madrid in 2012 tbf.
 
NatF said:
Nadal lol. Think if you pitted all three against each other and any field across time and space Nadal is coming out on top more often than not.
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That's as much about the matchup as about the level they produced against Novak, though, as @Hitman suggested.

Given the matchup, Federer or Wawrinka probably has to be playing a lot better than Nadal to stand a decent chance of beating him on clay. Djokovic is at least a little more competitive with Nadal than they are, but they can still hold their own against him.

Not sure why I'm using present tense to describe these old men, though!
 
helterskelter said:
That's as much about the matchup as about the level they produced against Novak, though, as @Hitman suggested.

Given the matchup, Federer or Wawrinka probably has to be playing a lot better than Nadal to stand a decent chance of beating him on clay. Djokovic is at least a little more competitive with Nadal than they are, but they can still hold their own against him.

Not sure why I'm using present tense to describe these old men, though!
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"Any field across space and time"

So not just about the match-up.
 
InsideOut900 said:
Well, TA has Fed at 64W - 67UE and Nadal at 44W - 58UE.

Truth is probably in the middle as TA charters are usually quite harsh, while official AO stats are more forgiving.

Either way, the point is that it was nowhere near a match like say Nadal-Verdasco in terms of match stats and that a match between two insanely athletic baseliners isn't always just a winner hitting contest.

Not sure why you singled out just that bit of my other post
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Official AO stats are fine, unlike (some) lenient Wimby ones . TA charters are harsher.
I'd take the official AO one here. Not going to take the middle route.

I didn't have any major disagreement with rest of your post. Just a problem with taking TA UE stats as is for AO 09 final.
 
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NatF said:
"Any field across space and time"

So not just about the match-up.
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So in your view did Nadal struggle more with Djokovic than with the others because Djokovic matches up against him better than do Federer or Wawrinka or because Djokovic is just generally better on clay against any field across space and time?
 
helterskelter said:
So in your view did Nadal struggle more with Djokovic than with the others because Djokovic matches up against him better than do Federer or Wawrinka or because Djokovic is just generally better on clay against any field across space and time?
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A few reasons:

- Djokovic just plain matches up better than Fed and Wawa do with Nadal
- Nadal dropped his intensity a tad in the fourth...
- The timing of Djokovic's pushes. He had two extended periods of weaker play in the 2013 final, from mid first set until mid second set (about six games) and then the third set. However he raised his game in the second and at the end of the fourth to extend the match. I think Fed and Wawrinka played much more consistent matches but Djokovic raised his game well at key junctures to stay with Nadal. I don't think anyone bar Borg can match intensity with Nadal on clay over five sets but by varying his intensity Djokovic was able to strike at key moments to take it five.

I don't know if 2013 Djokovic would beat 2011 Fed or 2015 Wawa but IMO they'd have burnt themselves out in four sets by trying to go blow to blow with Nadal at full intensity from the off.
 
NatF said:
A few reasons:

- Djokovic just plain matches up better than Fed and Wawa do with Nadal
- Nadal dropped his intensity a tad in the fourth...
- The timing of Djokovic's pushes. He had two extended periods of weaker play in the 2013 final, from mid first set until mid second set (about six games) and then the third set. However he raised his game in the second and at the end of the fourth to extend the match. I think Fed and Wawrinka played much more consistent matches but Djokovic raised his game well at key junctures to stay with Nadal. I don't think anyone bar Borg can match intensity with Nadal on clay over five sets but by varying his intensity Djokovic was able to strike at key moments to take it five.

I don't know if 2013 Djokovic would beat 2011 Fed or 2015 Wawa but IMO they'd have burnt themselves out in four sets by trying to go blow to blow with Nadal at full intensity from the off.
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Well Fed matched his intensity in Rome over 5 sets, RG are tougher conditions though and more favorable to Rolfe as we saw in 2006. I'm fairly sure that peak Fed could match 11-14 Nadal intensity wise at RG, considering how the 2011 match went, even exceed him in many rallies, question is whether he'd have the head game and execution to seal the deal.

Nadal lost 4 straight games in the 2nd after being up a break and obviously served for it in the 4th (and before that was up a break as well). Nadal never really implodes on clay with a barrage of UFE, but weak defense and ballstriking from him allowed Djokovic to take advantage, Djokovic obviously was consistent in those patches unlike the rest of the first 4 sets, but it wasn't just all Djokovic raising level. Nadal should have finished it in 4, hands down, and a better version may even have won in 3, (as Djokovic back then probably would not have had the mentality to fight tooth and nail down 2 sets against a physically better opponent). In general 2013 Nadal could do some great things dictating with the serve and FH but that's not an optimal clay court style and in situations where he couldn't easily dictate he was much weaker at turning points around and creating uncomfortable situations with depth and angles like he used to do on defense. A similar thing happened in the USO final but Djokovic simply couldn't maintain the consistency and had no ability to fight and extend the match.

Obviously 13 Djokovic was physically more than able to match 2013 Nadal from the back (and was also able to hurt him on return), which neither 2011 Fed or 2015 Stan would be able to.
 
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Blahovic said:
Winning that match in 2011 would've made him number 1 in the world for the first time, which was a big deal to him. That was what made him nervous, more than the streak.
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Well I have to give it to you, never before I heard that excuse. It was more about how he was out of the rhythm due to the walkover in the QF. Anyway, Fed was just a better player that day, served better, played with the right tactics and, most importantly, played big points better. Djokovic can lose a match even if he is not handicapped, you know
 
Martin J said:
Well I have to give it to you, never before I heard that excuse. It was more about how he was out of the rhythm due to the walkover in the QF. Anyway, Fed was just a better player that day, served better, played with the right tactics and, most importantly, played big points better. Djokovic can lose a match even if he is not handicapped, you know
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As a big Djokovic fan myself I always say Djokovic is better on Clay even when people use 2011 as a example, they also forget Djokovic straight setted Fed the next year.
But as you said in 2011 Fed was simply better on the day and that was that. I hate all the excuses, Djokovic could beat Fed when he was young if he played great and Fed could beat Djokovic when older if he played great. Both matchup well and there is no excuse for Djokovic Fed was simply better that day
 
Oh and @NonP , sorry, you are completely wrong about @NoleFam . He was barely bearable before this year. This year, he's become a near complete Djoko fanatic (Edit: in terms of tennis related opinions, just to be clear)

1. Calling 2021 competition as good.

2. Bigging up Berretinni of Wim 21 final here. When NatF/me pointed out that while Roddick's performance in Wim 05 final wasn't good, it was still clearly better than Berr's in Wim 21 final and showed stats supporting it, he just brushed it off and then this:


NatF said:
Your analysis ignores that Roddick forced proportionately more errors against a much better opponent hence is wrong 8-B
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NoleFam said:
So he was far from good but better than Berrettini. Lol. I got it. I'm sorry but I can't a lot of you guys' opinions seriously.
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He basically near neglected forced errors stat.
And NatF had started off with this one btw:

NatF said:
Just incase anyone is interested, 2005 final versus 2021 as people are chucking UE's around...

2005:

Arod's aggressive margin was 26.3%, he had 62 winners/forced errors to 16 UE's which is a ratio of 3.88 per UE, he served slightly slower on average than Berrettini but got 10% more firsts in.
Feds aggressive margin was 41.2%, he had 85 winners/forced errors to 12 UE's which is a ratio of 7.1 per UE, he served bigger on average than Djokovic at basically the same percentage.

2021:
Berr's aggressive margin was 22.5%, he had 110 winners/forced errors to 48 UE's which is a ratio of 2.29 per UE, he served slightly bigger on average than Roddick but got 10% less firsts in.
Djok's aggressive margin was 27.53%, he had 97 winners/forced errors to 21 UE's which is a ratio of 4.62 per UE, he served slower on average than Fed at basically the same percentage.

Pretty obvious where the quality was no?
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3. Calling AO 2021 for Djokovic as haviing great opposition:

NoleFam said:
What's the point in posting break stats when Djokovic was facing montrous servers and great oppostion on a lightning fast court while Federer played less opposition on a slower rebound ace court?

And then Federer would board his space ship for his deluxe tour of Neptune and Saturn. Lol.
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For the record, I pointed out, that Fed's service stats and Djoko's service stats in AO 06/AO 21 were identical. If both were serving just as well, Djoko should be having a clearly higher% of service holds since AO 21 courts were clearly faster. He didn't respond to that part (obviously)

Davy of AO 06 > Z of AO 21
Haas of AO 06 > Raonic of AO 21
Baggy of AO 06 > Med of AO 21
Kiefer of AO 06 ~ Karatsev of AO 21

And I don't consider AO 06 as being strong draw for fed at all - it wasn't. But he says opposition for Djoko in AO 21 was great. His words.

2nd Edit: There are only a handful of good Djokovic fans left on the site: Hitman, zagor, yourself, InsideOut9000 etc. And yes, Biotic isn't one of them. But that's for another day.
 
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abmk said:
Oh and @NonP , sorry, you are completely wrong about @NoleFam . He was barely bearable before this year. This year, he's become a near complete Djoko fanatic.
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hey NoleFam's pretty chill even if I disagree with a lot of his opinions; you can think his opinions are crazy or something like that without stepping down to the level of insulting the guy when he's remained perfectly civil this whole time

you're supposed to save that for trolls
 
Third Serve said:
hey NoleFam's pretty chill even if I disagree with a lot of his opinions; you can think his opinions are crazy or something like that without stepping down to the level of insulting the guy when he's remained perfectly civil this whole time

you're supposed to save that for trolls
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I didn't talk about his civility. I only talked about his crazy opinions.
 
abmk said:
Oh and @NonP , sorry, you are completely wrong about @NoleFam . He was barely bearable before this year. This year, he's become a near complete Djoko fanatic (Edit: in terms of tennis related opinions, just to be clear)

1. Calling 2021 competition as good.

2. Bigging up Berretinni of Wim 21 final here. When NatF/me pointed out that while Roddick's performance in Wim 05 final wasn't good, it was still clearly better than Berr's in Wim 21 final and showed stats supporting it, he just brushed it off and then this:







He basically near neglected forced errors stat.
And NatF had started off with this one btw:



3. Calling AO 2021 for Djokovic as haviing great opposition:



For the record, I pointed out, that Fed's service stats and Djoko's service stats in AO 06/AO 21 were identical. If both were serving just as well, Djoko should be having a clearly higher% of service holds since AO 21 courts were clearly faster. He didn't respond to that part (obviously)

Davy of AO 06 > Z of AO 21
Haas of AO 06 > Raonic of AO 21
Baggy of AO 06 > Med of AO 21
Kiefer of AO 06 ~ Karatsev of AO 21

And I don't consider AO 06 as being strong draw for fed at all - it wasn't. But he says opposition for Djoko in AO 21 was great. His words.

2nd Edit: There are only a handful of good Djokovic fans left on the site: Hitman, zagor, yourself, InsideOut9000 etc. And yes, Biotic isn't one of them. But that's for another day.
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I really disagree with NoleFam on a huge number of topics but no need to go after him in another thread guy. If NonP thinks he's a good poster no reason to try and prove him wrong - that's just petty, NoleFam is a pretty nice guy tbh. Stick to debating the arguments.
 
NatF said:
I really disagree with NoleFam on a huge number of topics but no need to go after him in another thread guy. If NonP thinks he's a good poster no reason to try and prove him wrong - that's just petty, NoleFam is a pretty nice guy tbh. Stick to debating the arguments.
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I agree, NoleFam is a very good guy and I've had many disagreements on many topics with him here, but I never felt any disrespect ever. Actually he handled one bad situation in the past quite maturely, so I'm very surprised with abmk's comments. If there are some fanatics or loonies here, it's certainly not this guy who is among them.
 
Martin J said:
I agree, NoleFam is a very good guy and I've had many disagreements on many topics with him here, but I never felt any disrespect ever. Actually he handled one bad situation in the past quite maturely, so I'm very surprised with abmk's comments. If there are some fanatics or loonies here, it's certainly not this guy who is among them.
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Surprising you're surprised. You should know what he's like by now.
 
NatF said:
I really disagree with NoleFam on a huge number of topics but no need to go after him in another thread guy. If NonP thinks he's a good poster no reason to try and prove him wrong - that's just petty, NoleFam is a pretty nice guy tbh. Stick to debating the arguments.
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I've given him a lot of rope honestly. My point was strictly about his tennis related responses, not him as a person. His responses in that thread crossed a line for me. An absolute dismissive response to a very reasonable post of yours (you know which one) and then saying Fed fans are pumping up Fed's opponents when we weren't, while he himself was exaggerating Djoko/his opponents's levels.
 
abmk said:
I've given him a lot of rope honestly. My point was strictly about his tennis related responses. His responses in that thread crossed a line for me. An absolute dismissive response to a very reasonable post of yours (you know which one) and then saying Fed fans are pumping up Fed's opponents when we weren't, while he himself was exaggerating Djoko/his opponents's levels.
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He's definitely passive aggressive lol.
 
NatF said:
He's definitely passive aggressive lol.
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Yep.

Martin J said:
I agree, NoleFam is a very good guy and I've had many disagreements on many topics with him here, but I never felt any disrespect ever. Actually he handled one bad situation in the past quite maturely, so I'm very surprised with abmk's comments. If there are some fanatics or loonies here, it's certainly not this guy who is among them.
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Note that I saw NonP's post many hours before making my post. I kept my silence. Only when NoleFam crossed a line in that thread, I was peeved enough to mention it here.

Again, I repeat: My point was strictly about his tennis related responses, not him as a person.

I wouldn't call him a troll at all, but so many posts of his have been so full of blind Djokovic fandom in the last year that there's no way I can call him a decent poster tennis-wise.
 
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Nole Fans will become a lot more aggressive when Novak reaches 24-25 slams, then we will have no arguments left.

Federer had humiliated himself and us by winning 1 slam in almost 7 years (10fo-16uso).

Also by choking 2019 Wimbledon
 
Let me seee..... Stanimal took out tired Djokovic playing day to day vs Murray, Fed took out Djokovic by surprise after Novak lost balance without Fognini playing, Novak touching net cord almost breaking Rafa in that decisive game....
Maybe Fed, there was some quality play from him.
 
abmk said:
Oh and @NonP , sorry, you are completely wrong about @NoleFam . He was barely bearable before this year. This year, he's become a near complete Djoko fanatic (Edit: in terms of tennis related opinions, just to be clear)

1. Calling 2021 competition as good.

2. Bigging up Berretinni of Wim 21 final here. When NatF/me pointed out that while Roddick's performance in Wim 05 final wasn't good, it was still clearly better than Berr's in Wim 21 final and showed stats supporting it, he just brushed it off and then this:







He basically near neglected forced errors stat.
And NatF had started off with this one btw:



3. Calling AO 2021 for Djokovic as haviing great opposition:



For the record, I pointed out, that Fed's service stats and Djoko's service stats in AO 06/AO 21 were identical. If both were serving just as well, Djoko should be having a clearly higher% of service holds since AO 21 courts were clearly faster. He didn't respond to that part (obviously)

Davy of AO 06 > Z of AO 21
Haas of AO 06 > Raonic of AO 21
Baggy of AO 06 > Med of AO 21
Kiefer of AO 06 ~ Karatsev of AO 21

And I don't consider AO 06 as being strong draw for fed at all - it wasn't. But he says opposition for Djoko in AO 21 was great. His words.

2nd Edit: There are only a handful of good Djokovic fans left on the site: Hitman, zagor, yourself, InsideOut9000 etc. And yes, Biotic isn't one of them. But that's for another day.
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This coming from you? Someone else is a fanatic? You have zero self awareness. You are a poster who cannot even have civil discussions on this site with others when they don't share the same views as you and have to resort to ad hominem attacks with colorful language. It shows your level of maturity, or lack thereof, and shows you to be the very things that you call others since your rants are always centered around your favorite player. There's a reason why I ignored your posts for years and thanks for reminding me.
 
NoleFam said:
This coming from you? Someone else is a fanatic? You have zero self awareness. You are a poster who cannot even have civil discussions on this site with others when they don't share the same views as you and have to resort to ad hominem attacks with colorful language. It shows your level of maturity, or lack thereof, and shows you to be the very things that you call others since your rants are always centered around your favorite player. There's a reason why I ignored your posts for years and thanks for reminding me.
Click to expand...

No, I've disagreed with many others in a civil manner on TTW countless times. Only when someone is responding in a uncivil manner or so badly out of touch with reality, I speak in an aggressive manner.
But keep going, the guy who says Berr's performance in Wim 21 final was really good, but Roddick's was pathetic :-D:-D

abmk said:
Roddick forced a much higher% of errors than Berretini did. He forced 43 errors from fed in 175 points of the match. (24.57%)
Berretini forced 53 errors from Djokovic out of 201 points (19.2%)

So overall, Roddick had ~5% less winners+errors forced to Berretini and 10% lesser UEs vs a much better opponent.
So if Roddick was pathetic by your standards, Berretini was significantly worse than pathetic.

Roddick's performance wasn't good by any means, but it sure as hell was significantly better than Berrettini's.

Roddick's AM is a full 4% points above Berretinni's vs a significantly better opponent. But Roddick's performance was pathetic while berretinni was really good?
Dude, are you serious. Have a look at yourself in the mirror!

Its pathetic how much you big up Berrettini and then accuse fed fans of bigging up Fed's competition when we're just showing the reality.
Click to expand...

Oh and I've posted about plenty of players apart from federer/his opponents, but you are oblivious to such stuff. Not surprising.
 
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