Fed beat Djoker...

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
Federer lost. Simple. He should've won in 3, but instead, he somehow handed the match to Djokovic in 5. It still hurts so deeply, but it is a fact that Federer lost. Doesn't matter if he looked the better player of the two. He lost.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Federer lost. Simple. He should've won in 3, but instead, he somehow handed the match to Djokovic in 5. It still hurts so deeply, but it is a fact that Federer lost. Doesn't matter if he looked the better player of the two. He lost.
You thought it was done at 40-15 didn't you? ;)
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
You thought it was done at 40-15 didn't you? ;)
Well, I thought Federer could've won all of first 3 sets in the first place, without having to go to set 4, even. He had his chances and didn't take them, not one but so many. Definitely thought it was over when Federer was up 40-15 on his serve, on 2 championship points. Well, that's sports, I guess.
 

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
Federer didn't choke. Fans take the choke excuse to make it as if outcome is only about their fave's actions. It's not. Novak played below par but still managed to be better player in most important moments. Tennis is not basketball, we all know how the scoring system works. Accept it and you'll get over this loss.
How do you think Novak managed to be the better player in the crucial moments? Of course the result wasn't just on Federer's racquet, but with how the match was playing out, there is a strong feeling Roger would've won if he'd kept his cool in the deciding points of the match.
 

Nadal_Django

Hall of Fame
Federer lost. Simple. He should've won in 3, but instead, he somehow handed the match to Djokovic in 5. It still hurts so deeply, but it is a fact that Federer lost. Doesn't matter if he looked the better player of the two. He lost.
Tell that to your Fedr comrades. :-D:laughing:
 

Born_to_slice

Semi-Pro
How do you think Novak managed to be the better player in the crucial moments? Of course the result wasn't just on Federer's racquet, but with how the match was playing out, there is a strong feeling Roger would've won if he'd kept his cool in the deciding points of the match.
What kind of question is that? If you win a point, you played better. Federer didn't lose championship points because Deus ex machina took it away from him, his opponent did. Novak had an off day and Federer played great but Novak still managed to tough it out. No ifs, no buts, no coconuts. :cool:
 

adil1972

Hall of Fame
i lost interest in tennis thanx to federer declinne

same thing happened to me in past as i also stop following tennis from 2002 to 2005
 

dr325i

Legend
to the finish line.

He wasn't able to cross it, but that's another matter.
He simply beat Djoker in the race to the finish line.

He didn't win the race itself.

I'm trying to be as philosophical as possible. :)
YES
Let's go for 22 now at the USO!
 

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
What kind of question is that? If you win a point, you played better. Federer didn't lose championship points because Deus ex machina took it away from him, his opponent did. Novak had an off day and Federer played great but Novak still managed to tough it out. No ifs, no buts, no coconuts. :cool:
Sure, I'm not arguing that Djokovic played the important points better than Federer. With that said, because nerves got to him Federer played those points at a level below his average level in the match, and if he hadn't, he would've won. I'm just explaining to you why some Federer fans call this a choke, not trying to argue that Federer should've won. Mentality is a part of sport, and if you lose a match mentally, you still lose.
 

Born_to_slice

Semi-Pro
Sure, I'm not arguing that Djokovic played the important points better than Federer. With that said, because nerves got to him Federer played those points at a level below his average level in the match, and if he hadn't, he would've won. I'm just explaining to you why some Federer fans call this a choke, not trying to argue that Federer should've won. Mentality is a part of sport, and if you lose a match mentally, you still lose.
Pressure is always greater in decisive moments. Confidence is an asset more than technique. If you're hitting harder than you're comfortable in tense moment, it's very likely you'll miss. Novak got broken in the 5th set when serving for 5-2 from 30-0 up. Was that a choke too? I don't like that expression and how often it's used as a cop out. Maybe if someone misses a sitter, easy overhead or makes a double fault on crucial point you can call it a choke. If you don't make bad UE and still lose your opponent should be congratulated. Down 15-40, Novak made a great return, perfect passing shot winner and forced two errors to break by bossing the rallies. Federer hit 2 aces in that game, which is far better than his match average. Novak OTOH made zero 1st serves to win 1st tiebreak.
 

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
Pressure is always greater in decisive moments. Confidence is an asset more than technique. If you're hitting harder than you're comfortable in tense moment, it's very likely you'll miss. Novak got broken in the 5th set when serving for 5-2 from 30-0 up. Was that a choke too? I don't like that expression and how often it's used as a cop out. Maybe if someone misses a sitter, easy overhead or makes a double fault on crucial point you can call it a choke. If you don't make bad UE and still lose your opponent should be congratulated. Down 15-40, Novak made a great return, perfect passing shot winner and forced two errors to break by bossing the rallies. Federer hit 2 aces in that game, which is far better than his match average. Novak OTOH made zero 1st serves to win 1st tiebreak.
I agree with the points you brought up, and I congratulate Novak sincerely for his victory. It's not a choke just because someone who was leading gives up the lead. We need to look at the context of how they lost the lead. You have that game for Djokovic where he was nervous, eve served a DF I think. I really don't remember how the rest of that game went, and it could be a mini-choke. Federer, however, played below par on most crucial points throughout the match. In TB's, on CP's. Serving 2 aces is great, and he even was centimeters away from serving the 3rd, but when you look at what happened after, Federer's indecisive rushed play was a very clear display of nerves. And it was the same for all 3 TB's - the UE's :(.
I'm not denying that Djokobic got nervous in dangerous moments as well, but for him it was not nearly as detrimental as it was for Federer.
 

Born_to_slice

Semi-Pro
he even was centimeters away from serving the 3rd
Most aces are centimeters away from being faults too. :unsure:
Federer's indecisive rushed play was a very clear display of nerves.
It was a drilled attack which Federer made thousands of times in his career. Serve down the t, go fh/bh dtl and close the net. Federer decided to do it before he served at 40-30. Novak also broke him in 2nd set in Cincy last year when Fed did that same drill but went DTL with a passing shot. It was even better serve but Fed hit much worse approach shot.

Federer is often not trusting his bh in tense moments. Many of his shanks come from running around his bh untimely, match point in this W final included. But that's him. He won 20 slams with that game and mentality so it can't be that bad.
I'm not denying that Djokobic got nervous in dangerous moments as well, but for him it was not nearly as detrimental as it was for Federer.
I can assure you it was a huge deal for Novak and his fans when he lost his break advantage in the 5th. Even more when he was broken again at 7-7. It's just a different point of view that makes it seem more detrimental to us than than to you and vice versa.
 

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
Most aces are centimeters away from being faults too. :unsure:

It was a drilled attack which Federer made thousands of times in his career. Serve down the t, go fh/bh dtl and close the net. Federer decided to do it before he served at 40-30. Novak also broke him in 2nd set in Cincy last year when Fed did that same drill but went DTL with a passing shot. It was even better serve but Fed hit much worse approach shot.

Federer is often not trusting his bh in tense moments. Many of his shanks come from running around his bh untimely, match point in this W final included. But that's him. He won 20 slams with that game and mentality so it can't be that bad.

I can assure you it was a huge deal for Novak and his fans when he lost his break advantage in the 5th. Even more when he was broken again at 7-7. It's just a different point of view that makes it seem more detrimental to us than than to you and vice versa.
Alright. I can definitely see how it can seem worse for us as the losing side. I maintain that on most key points Federer played poorly compared to his average level in the match. I'm not as well versed in the technical aspect of tennis as some others here, but from years of watching and listening/reading commentary can tell when Federer is being outplayed or just not executing his shots perfectly, which is absolutely normal, especially in tense moments, and when he is so nervous he screws up with silly UE's and poor tactical decisions. I think this match had many examples of the latter, which with the way the match was playing out ultimately led to Federer's defeat.

At this point, probably the best decision is to end our argument with "agree to disagree". :)
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
StANDAA:
"
the OP was supposed to be funny ?"

To a degree.
There was also a degree of truthfulness to it.

Fed did in fact beat Djoker to the finish line.

Notice I chose my words carefully and did not say:
Fed beat Djoker across the finish line.

It was a photo finish race. :)
 
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StANDAA

Legend
StANDAA:
"
the OP was supposed to be funny ?"

To a degree.
There was also a degree of truthfulness to it.

Fed did in fact beat Djoker to the finish line.

Notice I chose my words carefully and did not say:
Fed beat Djoker across the finish line.

It was a photo finish race. :)
I understood the philosophy behind it, I just don’t find any humor in it if that’s what it was supposed to be, even to a degree.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
I understood the philosophy behind it, I just don’t find any humor in it if that’s what it was supposed to be, even to a degree.
I felt the opposite. I praise OP for taking positives out of the loss with humor and without diminishing Djoker.
 
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