Fed has been just EPIC against 3 of his trickiest matchups since the racquet change!

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
So for Federer, Nadal is merely a racquet problem, he could solve the hi-bouncing ball to the backhand with the bigger racquet head; but Djokovic truly is a match-up problem.

Federer should've made the switch much earlier. But his old-racquet forehand was such a beauty, I think that's why he delayed and delayed!
 
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Roddick85

Hall of Fame
Ironically, Federer had better "numbers" against Djokovic with the 90 than he did with the RF97A.... :unsure:
The racquet change may have decreased the amount of mishits and compensated for the decline in firepower, it also made his backhand slice less effective and his forehand isn't what it used to be either. No matter how you spin the numbers, it only tells half the story. When I think about Federer's career, his best moments for me will always be associated to the 90.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
So for Federer, Nadal is merely a racquet problem, he could solve the hi-bouncing ball to the backhand with the bigger racquet head; but Djokovic truly is a match-up problem.
1. Peak Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at the AO 2014 with Federer using the new big racquet. Also, Federer since 2017 onwards has been facing a much older and slower Nadal. Federer was not facing peak Nadal, so him beating Nadal in his 30s doesn't mean he would beat younger and faster Nadal. Take into account that Nadal's main strength always was his defense and velocity, both of which largely decrease with age and it is noticieable on faster courts like the AO or WB. Federer also has 0 victories over Nadal in outdoor hard courts since 2017. It was only one good year in the H2H. Since 2019, they are 1-1 in the H2H

2. Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at RG 2019. No evidence that Federer solved Nadal's matchup on clay at RG. At the USO Federer has never beaten Nadal either, and at the AO Federer has a losing H2H 1-3. The only Slam where Federer leads the H2H over Nadal is WB, which means Federer never solved his H2H with Nadal.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Since 2015, the pecking order is:

1. Stan
2. Thiem
3. Federer
4. Nadal
5. Murray

This is in order of how well they have performed against Novak in slams.
Nadal lost 3 Slam matches against Novak since 2015, while Federer has lost 5 Slam matches against Novak since 2015. Federer is not ahead of Nadal in Slam meetings against Djokovic since 2015.

And since 2014, Nadal is 1-3 against Novak in Slam meetings, while Federer is 0-6 in Slam meetings.
 
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tonylg

Legend
What I want clarification on is, if the three of them play each other at their peaks, who is the best big match player between them and who is worst? Can you give me this sequence please?
Depends on surface.

On clay, Nadal.

On any other slow, high bouncing court, Djokovic.

On a fast court, don't be silly .. there are no fast courts.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
1. Peak Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at the AO 2014 with Federer using the new big racquet. Also, Federer since 2017 onwards has been facing a much older and slower Nadal. Federer was not facing peak Nadal, so him beating Nadal in his 30s doesn't mean he would beat younger and faster Nadal. Take into account that Nadal's main strength always was his defense and velocity, both of which largely decrease with age and it is noticieable on faster courts like the AO or WB. Federer also has 0 victories over Nadal in outdoor hard courts since 2017. It was only one good year in the H2H. Since 2019, they are 1-1 in the H2H

2. Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at RG 2019. No evidence that Federer solved Nadal's matchup on clay at RG. At the USO Federer has never beaten Nadal either, and at the AO Federer has a losing H2H 1-3. The only Slam where Federer leads the H2H over Nadal is WB, which means Federer never solved his H2H with Nadal.
I do agree that this has been the most important change in their dynamic, not the racket. Rafa's still one of the faster guys on tour, but he definitely came back down to Earth, putting him on more even footing with Federer. And Rafa being forced to be more offensive basically plays right into Federer's hands, because Roger will like his chances against anyone on tour if the match comes down to a shootout of offense.

The rest I don't really agree with, but to each their own.
 

SamprasisGOAT

Professional
I do agree that this has been the most important change in their dynamic, not the racket. Rafa's still one of the faster guys on tour, but he definitely came back down to Earth, putting him on more even footing with Federer. And Rafa being forced to be more offensive basically plays right into Federer's hands, because Roger will like his chances against anyone on tour if the match comes down to a shootout of offense.

The rest I don't really agree with, but to each their own.
Spot on
 
Also, he's had only one 40-15 "incident" with the new racquet. Before the change, he had two 40-15s. Obvious improvement is obvious.

Iirc, there was another 4015bat indian wells 2018 final.
Which imo started the cascade of failures for resurgent federer. He was nowhere as confident in his new game afterwards, and didn't hit the ball with same conviction either.
 

adil1972

Hall of Fame
you reap what you sow

will federer become depress when nadal/djokovic break all his important records

as fed cause depression to sampras when he won more than 14 GS titles and surpass sampras 386 weeks as No 1 Record
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Nadal lost 3 Slam matches against Novak since 2015, while Federer has lost 5 Slam matches against Novak since 2015. Federer is not ahead of Nadal in Slam meetings against Djokovic since 2015.

And since 2014, Nadal is 1-3 against Novak in Slam meetings, while Federer is 0-6 in Slam meetings.
Why since 2014? Novak became the dominator again in 2015.

Nadal lost fewer slam matches because he didn't meet Novak in slams enough, compared to Federer, which again puts a dent in the argument of how Nadal and Djokovic have been each other's competition in the last few years.

Federer has performed better against Novak in slams with only 1 match ending in straights and being 1 point away from winning another match. Nadal has been destroyed in 2 of their 3 slam matches and the third isn't closer than Wimb 2019.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
1. Peak Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at the AO 2014 with Federer using the new big racquet. Also, Federer since 2017 onwards has been facing a much older and slower Nadal. Federer was not facing peak Nadal, so him beating Nadal in his 30s doesn't mean he would beat younger and faster Nadal. Take into account that Nadal's main strength always was his defense and velocity, both of which largely decrease with age and it is noticieable on faster courts like the AO or WB. Federer also has 0 victories over Nadal in outdoor hard courts since 2017. It was only one good year in the H2H. Since 2019, they are 1-1 in the H2H

2. Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at RG 2019. No evidence that Federer solved Nadal's matchup on clay at RG. At the USO Federer has never beaten Nadal either, and at the AO Federer has a losing H2H 1-3. The only Slam where Federer leads the H2H over Nadal is WB, which means Federer never solved his H2H with Nadal.
The h2h would be much more “solved” if The Nadal hadn’t conveniently “injured” himself vs Cilic at AO’18 (assuming Edmund hadn’t beaten him) and Khachanov at IW’19, no?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I do agree that this has been the most important change in their dynamic, not the racket. Rafa's still one of the faster guys on tour, but he definitely came back down to Earth, putting him on more even footing with Federer. And Rafa being forced to be more offensive basically plays right into Federer's hands, because Roger will like his chances against anyone on tour if the match comes down to a shootout of offense.

The rest I don't really agree with, but to each their own.
Well, Nadal is still 5 years younger. Shouldn't Federer be worse at 35+ than Nadal at 30+?

I understand where he's coming from, but it simply does not apply in this case since Federer is 5 years older, not younger.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
1. Peak Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at the AO 2014 with Federer using the new big racquet. Also, Federer since 2017 onwards has been facing a much older and slower Nadal. Federer was not facing peak Nadal, so him beating Nadal in his 30s doesn't mean he would beat younger and faster Nadal. Take into account that Nadal's main strength always was his defense and velocity, both of which largely decrease with age and it is noticieable on faster courts like the AO or WB. Federer also has 0 victories over Nadal in outdoor hard courts since 2017. It was only one good year in the H2H. Since 2019, they are 1-1 in the H2H

2. Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at RG 2019. No evidence that Federer solved Nadal's matchup on clay at RG. At the USO Federer has never beaten Nadal either, and at the AO Federer has a losing H2H 1-3. The only Slam where Federer leads the H2H over Nadal is WB, which means Federer never solved his H2H with Nadal.
So you're telling me that without his speed, Nadal has got nothing on Federer? But I thought he was supposed to be the more complete player.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
1. Peak Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at the AO 2014 with Federer using the new big racquet. Also, Federer since 2017 onwards has been facing a much older and slower Nadal. Federer was not facing peak Nadal, so him beating Nadal in his 30s doesn't mean he would beat younger and faster Nadal. Take into account that Nadal's main strength always was his defense and velocity, both of which largely decrease with age and it is noticieable on faster courts like the AO or WB. Federer also has 0 victories over Nadal in outdoor hard courts since 2017. It was only one good year in the H2H. Since 2019, they are 1-1 in the H2H

2. Nadal destroyed Federer in 3 sets at RG 2019. No evidence that Federer solved Nadal's matchup on clay at RG. At the USO Federer has never beaten Nadal either, and at the AO Federer has a losing H2H 1-3. The only Slam where Federer leads the H2H over Nadal is WB, which means Federer never solved his H2H with Nadal.
Federer is 5 years older than Nadal. Get off your high horse. If Nadal is older and slower, Federer is even more so.

This argument does not hold when Federer himself is older, not younger.
 

McGradey

Professional
Ironically, Federer had better "numbers" against Djokovic with the 90 than he did with the RF97A.... :unsure:
The racquet change may have decreased the amount of mishits and compensated for the decline in firepower, it also made his backhand slice less effective and his forehand isn't what it used to be either. No matter how you spin the numbers, it only tells half the story. When I think about Federer's career, his best moments for me will always be associated to the 90.
Yep. The big exception being the 2017 comeback AO win over Nadal.

He had total mastery over the 90. It was like his wand that he could wave in whatever manner he needed to at any given moment; it's just that using the small racquet also meant he had a fatal flaw against Nadal.
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
Yep. The big exception being the 2017 comeback AO win over Nadal.

He had total mastery over the 90. It was like his wand that he could wave in whatever manner he needed to at any given moment; it's just that using the small racquet also meant he had a fatal flaw against Nadal.
He also started to be overpowered by the likes of Berdych with the PS90.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Lets be honest here, in the past couple of years who has done well against Djokovic in the slams outside of Wawrinka and Thiem? No one.
You'll have to remind me, what has Wawrinka done against Djokovic in the last couple of years?
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
You'll have to remind me, what has Wawrinka done against Djokovic in the last couple of years?
He won the last three slam meetings, which is the best anyone has done against Djokovic in recent years in the slams. Thiem has gone 2-1 in the last three slam meetings also, placing him second. The only two players to have beaten Djokovic multiple times in recent years in slam matches.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
tennisaddict...
Is that all you can say after getting rect... :unsure:
You must be politician in real life...:sneaky:
He couldn’t give a reply as you may have noticed

If Nadal is the GOAT or to be GOAT , he should do better than Laver

A person being hailed as ATG and would be GOAT has no excuses to lose to 38 year old like so many times. This applies to Djokovic as well who got embarrassed at YEC
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
When did Djokovic lose a slam to a 38yo? :unsure:

How many of the current top100 are 19 years old? :unsure:
He was embarrassed at YEC and it is a huge stain to his resume

Clearly shows what their h2h would be if they were the same age or imagine if Fed was 6 years younger
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Novak lost YE 1 and that too at the hands of a crippled old man . Embarrassed is a mild word
Djokovic would have had to win the semifinal and the final too to be the YE #1. Federer was not the main reason he was not #1.

You're just overrating one of the wins Federer had over Djokovic because you know that Djokovic dominated in the most important matches of the rivalry:

Slam finals 4-1
Slam semis 7-4
YEC finals 2-0
Masters finals 5-3
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Djokovic would have had to win the semifinal and the final too to be the YE #1. Federer was not the main reason he was not #1.

You're just overrating one of the wins Federer had over Djokovic because you know that Djokovic won most of the important matches:

Slam finals 4-1
Slam semis 7-4
YEC finals 2-0
Masters finals 5-3
Nothing is more worse than losing to 38 year old

Maybe Djokovic will better it later this year ?
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
Iirc, there was another 4015bat indian wells 2018 final.
Which imo started the cascade of failures for resurgent federer. He was nowhere as confident in his new game afterwards, and didn't hit the ball with same conviction either.
Technically two if we count that Delpo match. There's plenty more if we consider 15-40 on return as well as 40-15 on serve.
Forgot that one. I singled out Novak though as he was left out in favor of Berdych in the trickiest three match ups in OP.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
But he lost his matchup advantage against Djokovic with new frame. That cost him at least 5 Slams. Beating those three given him 1 Slam title. So it's net loss for him. I wish he kept losing to Murrays and Berdychs but had found the way to hit through Djokovic.
 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
Yep. The big exception being the 2017 comeback AO win over Nadal.

He had total mastery over the 90. It was like his wand that he could wave in whatever manner he needed to at any given moment; it's just that using the small racquet also meant he had a fatal flaw against Nadal.
When you look at Federer's style, it's much more suited to the 90 than the larger/powerful frames. Federer is about control, insane angles, touch, shot making and precison. Sure he had more firepower when he was younger, but I never considered him a "power base liner" among the likes of Tsonga, Berdych or Wawrinka. The RF97 surely gave him more firepower but he also struggled to control that power at times, especially in 2014.
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
I wish he kept losing to Murrays and Berdychs but had found the way to hit through Djokovic.
We all know he had to make the switch because of Nadal. The H2H was embarrassingly 10-23 at the time.

But after the switch, Nadal has to fear Fed's backhand, but Djokovic has no fear of Fed's forehand.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
He won the last three slam meetings, which is the best anyone has done against Djokovic in recent years in the slams. Thiem has gone 2-1 in the last three slam meetings also, placing him second. The only two players to have beaten Djokovic multiple times in recent years in slam matches.
Stan's last Slam victory against Djokovic was back in 2016 though, not in the last couple of years. ;)
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Stan's last Slam victory against Djokovic was back in 2016 though, not in the last couple of years. ;)
2019 USO fourth round, my friend.
:)

How does that change the narrative of what I am saying though, when I am talking about the last couple of years? It is clear I am talking about from 2015 to 2019.
 
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