Fed & Nadal versus Roddick & Blake!

[tennisjunkiela]

a-rod and james blake have both challenged fed & nadal for prematurely holding a news conference to criticize the atp for its proposed changes to the master series calendar.

the tension between americans and europeans atp players is becoming more apparent as tennis tries to figure out how to grow the sport of tennis, which tournaments to eliminate or downgrade, etc. likewise, the top american wta players (i.e. the williams sisters) also challenged the wta on plans to expand/upgrade tournaments in europe in 2009, at the expense of american events.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_y...Tg4v7YF?slug=ap-romemasters&prov=ap&type=lgns

i have to agree with a-rod and blake:

a-rod - it's economics baby!
"What no one is talking about is the finances of it," Roddick said. "This is not a knock on (Monte Carlo). The tournament is amazing, they run it great, the players love it. It's the most beautiful stadium we have.

"But if you get 70,000 people a week in Monte Carlo and then if you have a place like Cincinnati, it may be a little further out and a lot of Europeans don't like going there, but if the attendance is 180,000 and you're looking at it as a business model and who brings in the most revenue, when it's time to make cuts, that person is going to get cut."

blake - don't air our dirty laundry
"I agree the tour does need to listen to it's players but I think we need to do that behind closed doors instead of just airing it out in front of everyone," Blake said Sunday on the eve of the Rome Masters.

"If it gets to a desperation point then maybe we have to use the media and get your point out that way," Blake said. "But I really don't think we're at that desperation point yet, especially since we're dealing with the 2009 calendar."

"Some players, myself included, don't have the same education and background as some of these tour managers or player representatives or the board members that have the job to do that," Blake said. "We have to trust them because we've elected them. We have to voice our opinions, there's nothing wrong with that, but we also have to understand that some people might have better ideas and better business savvy."

 

[tintin]

Blake has no business talking about **** since he needed deVillier's help to make the finals in Vegas:roll:
Roddick hasn't played MC in years
when it comes down to clay court tournaments that have been around for +100 years and with all the history they should both just shut the hell up already.
Cincy has 180.000 attendees! since when?:shock:
Houston had 5 people in the stands in a fcking cold stadium with green "clay" I suppose it's better to be there than fly to MC a bloody Masters with more ranking points and more $ and that has always been packed:roll:
for god's sakes Karlovic out of all players won there,Karlovic!:roll:

 

[Greengrass]

I also think Blake + Roddick should keep their mouths shut seeing as they didn't bother to turn up for MC anyway! You could equally say that if the players disagree maybe they should disagree in private as well.

 

[Alexandros]

I also think Blake + Roddick should keep their mouths shut seeing as they didn't bother to turn up for MC anyway!

How does that make their points any less valid? Roddick didn't argue that Monte Carlo should be scrapped because he doesn't play there - he makes a very good point about the economics of the situation. The bottomline is money and if tennis is to grow and stop stagnating then they need to go where as many people as possible can attend to maximise revenue.

 

[DariusRaiden]

Blake has no business talking about **** since he needed deVillier's help to make the finals in Vegas:roll:
Roddick hasn't played MC in years
when it comes down to clay court tournaments that have been around for +100 years and with all the history they should both just shut the hell up already.
Cincy has 180.000 attendees! since when?:shock:
Houston had 5 people in the stands in a fcking cold stadium with green "clay" I suppose it's better to be there than fly to MC a bloody Masters with more ranking points and more $ and that has always been packed:roll:
for god's sakes Karlovic out of all players won there,Karlovic!:roll:

Actually, they use red clay imported from the same supplier that gives to the French Open. Anyways, I see your point but tennis is about revenue and the tourneys that make the least amount of profit get canned, its economics and in the long run, it IS better for the sport.

 

[Shabazza]

Actually, they use red clay imported from the same supplier that gives to the French Open. Anyways, I see your point but tennis is about revenue and the tourneys that make the least amount of profit get canned, its economics and in the long run, it IS better for the sport.

No they didn't. This year they played on green clay. Nothing remotely close to RG. And don't say I'm wrong I've seen it with my own eyes.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Actually, they use red clay imported from the same supplier that gives to the French Open. Anyways, I see your point but tennis is about revenue and the tourneys that make the least amount of profit get canned, its economics and in the long run, it IS better for the sport.

"tennis is about revenue" ?... that's such an ugly vision.
of course the lucrative point can't be ignored, but please... a minimum of respect towards history of tennis would be welcome.

better for the sport ? that's a subjective notion.
(having tournaments a bit everywhere in the world would be better for the sport, in my opinion...)
here "better for the ATP" would be more accurate, unfortunately.
for understanding better all this, could anybody enlight us on how it works exactly ?

i mean... there are some tournament representatives among the director board (as there are some player representatives) but are we really considering the direct income from the tournaments, or some potential undirect income ?...
both probably, but how does the ATP really make its money ?

 

[HollerOne5]

Roddick and Blake need to shut up. Neither of them play MC and I think Roddick usually dips out on the Hamburg as well. They are just mad because they lose first round at most clay court tournaments, where as Fed and Nadal always make the final. Wouldn't they be talking something different if they were trying to downgrade Indian Wells, Miami, or Cincy? I think so!

 

[Alexandros]

Roddick and Blake need to shut up. Neither of them play MC and I think Roddick usually dips out on the Hamburg as well. They are just mad because they lose first round at most clay court tournaments, where as Fed and Nadal always make the final. Wouldn't they be talking something different if they were trying to downgrade Indian Wells, Miami, or Cincy? I think so!

Again, whatever motives they may or may not have the point being made is still a valid one.

 

[drakulie]

Roddick and Blake need to shut up. Neither of them play MC and I think Roddick usually dips out on the Hamburg as well.

So what? Fed and Nadal didn't play houston.

They are just mad because they lose first round at most clay court tournaments, where as Fed and Nadal always make the final.

They are mad? How are they mad? If anything, they are happy that MC is being downgraded because of the points you cited. Just shows what a moronic post this is.

Wouldn't they be talking something different if they were trying to downgrade Indian Wells, Miami, or Cincy? I think so!

Of course they would. That is their whole point. Looking at it from a business point of view>>> more people attend these tourneys than MC.

 

[tennisjunkiela]

Cincy has 180.000 attendees! since when

cincy is one of the best attended men's tournaments in the world - the attendance figure for 2005 was 157,354 (cincy has a 10,000+ seat stadium)! i haven't found cincy's 2006 attendance numbers yet but cincy's numbers keep going up each year. monte carlo's attendance pales in comparison to cincy and some of the other master series tournaments.

http://www.cincytennis.com/en/newsletter/fall2005.pdf

Blake has no business talking about **** since he needed deVillier's help to make the finals in Vegas:roll: Roddick hasn't played MC in years when it comes down to clay court tournaments that have been around for +100 years and with all the history they should both just shut the hell up already.

the validity of blake's and roddick's argument should be based on facts and not on whether you like them personally.

 

[mfa81]

what is more value a masters series tournament with blake and roddick or a simple MC atp tournament with Federer and Nadal ? lets talk seriously atp needs Federer and Nadal... atp needs the europeans... lets take a look at atp ranking... on top ten we have 4 europeans, 1 south american, 2 americans, and 3 from the east europe, 2 of them living in MC... talking about race we have 5 europeans, 2 south americans, 2 from de east europe, both living in monte carlo and just 1 american... I think that money is more important that anything... and there is no money in a tournament without great players... and the great players are in europe !

by the way: why roddick or blake dont go to trophy ceremony at MC, Rome, Hamburg, RG, whatever in europe and tell everyone that ATP is doing a good job... just like Nadal did at Indian Wells ?

 

[tennisjunkiela]

what is more value a masters series tournament with blake and roddick or a simple MC atp tournament with Federer and Nadal ? lets talk seriously atp needs Federer and Nadal... atp needs the europeans... lets take a look at atp ranking... on top ten we have 4 europeans, 1 south american, 2 americans, and 3 from the east europe, 2 of them living in MC. I think that money is more important that anything... and there is no money in a tournament without great players... and the great players are in europe!

based on your argument that the great players are in europe and that there is no money in a tournament without great players - then the european master series tournaments should be drawing more fans and generating more money than the us master series tournaments.

however, the opposite is true! in fact, cincinnati, indian wells, miami, and montreal (canadian) have much larger attendance and generate significantly more money than their european MC counterparts! that why's the atp is looking to cut them.

 

[roysid]

Well, American players were never keen on European clay court circuit. And ATP's decision to cut 3 clay masters to 1 might have some American influences.

Blake's point is valid. Fed and Nadal can't act as they're the players representatives.

One thing is admirable about Fed. Cutting down clay court masters will actually work to his favor as he is the best on hard and grass, while not so at clay. But still he wants to keep Monte Carlo as Masters.

 

[gugarafa]

Quite unfair to cut down on clay masters tournaments.I dont believe the ATP is trying to increase the popularity of tennis just the revenue bullsh!t.

Though Roddick has a point and Ralfy has reason for discontent neither of them can speak fpr the fans and as a fan i totally disagree with this move.

 

[tintin]

So what? Fed and Nadal didn't play houston.

.

that's the point what serious player would go play in Houston on a worthless surface that isn't the real clay?:roll:
it's nice and all to get money to play in Houston like Roddick and Blake have but if you really want to even at their age improve on clay,Houston ain't the place.
this isn't rocket science mate,Houston simply is not the place to be

and by the way Tennisjunkie it has nothing to do with me liking or not liking Blake or Roddick,fact is they got no business talking about Federer and Nadal winners of the last 12 Grand slams.
Federer might not be able to be identified to the common American in a police lineup and not that Federer care about that either and he shouldn't and neither does Nadal.
both Roddick and Blake are known to be Federer's bitotches! and for fighting for the scrapes of Federer and Nadal when someone takes them out,now that is know:lol:

 

[sureshs]

Most of the US players supported the Bryans in their efforts against the ATP, in spite of the fact that doubles is clearly a money loser. So now their comments appear hypocritical.

 

[sureshs]

Houston had 5 people in the stands in a fcking cold stadium with green "clay" I suppose it's better to be there than fly to MC a bloody Masters with more ranking points and more $ and that has always been packed:roll:

Houston has been canceled. The owners are converting the place to have more soccer and fitness and less tennis, and getting rid of the clay courts.

 

[tennisjunkiela]

Blake or Roddick got no business talking about Federer and Nadal, winners of the last 12 Grand slams.

blake and roddick have every right to take federer and nadal to task for having a press conference to bash the atp board.

the core of their argument is that the atp board is made up of players, tournament directors, etc, elected by the players themselves, and that the proper forum for airing grievances isn't in the press but rather in private negotiation with the atp board, especially since the players themselves elected the board.

how many grand slams a player has won has nothing to do with this issue!

 

[sureshs]

blake and roddick have every right to take federer and nadal to task for having a press conference to bash the atp board.

Why didn't they speak up when the Bryans and their father was doing press conferences and suing the ATP over the doubles issue? They said far more damaging things about the ATP and the tournament directors. Had they done so, they would have some credibility now.

 

[HollerOne5]

So what? Fed and Nadal didn't play houston.



They are mad? How are they mad? If anything, they are happy that MC is being downgraded because of the points you cited. Just shows what a moronic post this is.



Of course they would. That is their whole point. Looking at it from a business point of view>>> more people attend these tourneys than MC.

Wow you are a hater....

First off...why would Fed and Nadal play Houston? Green har-tru or whatever "clay" surface its played on is not even real clay. Second of all, smart TOP players use that week and other weeks to rest in between master series events (where all the points are). Roddick and Blake play houston probably to pick up some extra points (because its the only "clay" even they are probably ever in contention for) and because its in America....just like Nadal plays the Barcelona event and Federer usually plays the Basil event.

Calling it a moronic post makes no sense BTW. If MC is downgraded, it just shows how much Blake and Roddick and players that skip it anyways will luck out. Now they will have a better reason to not show up because its not a masters event and won't be worth as many points.

Also, downgrading the event changes the complete history of the event, and also will result in lost points for players who earned points in that tournament the year it switches over (without them doing anything wrong).

I, for one, agree that the clay masters series need to be spread out more, especialy the back-to-back Rome and Hamburg tourneys that cause top players to pull out of Hamburg last minute, but downgrading is n ot the answer, and for the dumb americans to jump on that bandwagon just shows their ignorance. They should keep their mouths shut and work on trying to beat a top player or win a tournament sometime this year before they are both out of the top 10.

 

[drakulie]

Wow you are a hater....

How is it that you conclude I'm a "hater"? Because someone disagrees with you they are a "hater"? This statement by you just shows how ignorant you are, and that you can't come up with a debate to counter the facts posted by myself and several other posters.


Fact: Fed and Nadal DO NOT speak on behalf of every player on tour.

Fact: Cincy, Miami, IW, are more popular event on the ATP than MC.

Fact: Cincy, Miami, IW, have a higher attendance than MC.

Fact: Cincy, Miami, IW, bring in more revenue than MC.

As I stated, they should not be speaking on behalf of all the ATP players, and the events that have been brought up in this thread are FAR SUPERIOR in numbers than those that may be downgraded. NUMBERS DON'T LIE. THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE. Learn how to count. 180 thousand equals more than 70,000??

Oh, and by the way, Fed is my favorite player on tour right now, and I can't stand Roddick. However, Fed along with Nadal or wrong in this matter. Roddick and Blake or correct.

Calling it a moronic post makes no sense BTW.

Your post was moronic. You stated Blake/Roddick

"are just mad because they lose first round at most clay court tournaments, where as Fed and Nadal always make the final"

If that's the case, then every other player besides Nadal/Fed woudl feel the same way. Last time I checked, Fed/Nadal have consistently been the only 2 players on the ATP who are making finals.

I suggest you go back to school and learn how to count.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Fact: Cincy, Miami, IW, are more popular event on the ATP than MC.

what do you call popular ?
i don't think you mean attendance 'cause you wrote another line for it.

probably "popular among players" ?
if it's the case, i seriously doubt that cincinnati is more popular than monte-carlo...

 

[tintin]

blake and roddick have every right to take federer and nadal to task for having a press conference to bash the atp board.

!

Blake is putting his trust in a man who obviously knows nothing about tennis.
Who botched a system to make an American player make it to the finals of a tournament in American no less just because it was business.
Nofrikingbody knew who Korolev was until he got screwed by deVillier on behalf of Blake and Blake has shown in this whole debacle that he lacked integrity when he went along with this whole RR fiasco because making it to the finals was going to serve him right,nothing more nothing else.
the cheat is taking sides of the man who cheated well at least attempted to cheat the system in the name of big business is the way to go:roll:
and I'll remind you of one last thing before I never reply int his thread again.First of all both Federer,Nadal and the players who came forward and went public with deVilliers ploys only when their meetings and grievances went into depth ears and they got nothing in response.
2nd of all,it was disrecpectful of both to single out Federer and Nadal in public themselves when they dind't do such thing.If they wanted to answer the media;all the had to do is say that it was something that was going to be discussed in the locker room and that they would not comment about it with the media.

 

[jackson vile]

Blake has no business talking about **** since he needed deVillier's help to make the finals in Vegas:roll:
Roddick hasn't played MC in years
when it comes down to clay court tournaments that have been around for +100 years and with all the history they should both just shut the hell up already.
Cincy has 180.000 attendees! since when?:shock:
Houston had 5 people in the stands in a fcking cold stadium with green "clay" I suppose it's better to be there than fly to MC a bloody Masters with more ranking points and more $ and that has always been packed:roll:
for god's sakes Karlovic out of all players won there,Karlovic!:roll:

I agree I think it is more about giving the Americans more of an edge

 

[pmata814]

what do you call popular ?
i don't think you mean attendance 'cause you wrote another line for it.

probably "popular among players" ?
if it's the case, i seriously doubt that cincinnati is more popular than monte-carlo...

Maybe he means popular with fans and therefore with sponsors? Maybe in Europe MC is popular and it is widely televised but here the only channel that was showing it was the Tennis Channel. The quality was horrible. You couldn't even see the ball. The same two or three commercials repeating over and over again. I don't know if the ATP gets a cut of the money that is revenued from TV but I would imagine they do. Cincinnati is a totally different story. Big sponsors, televised to a much larger audience and therefore MORE POPULAR.

I'm all for keeping tournaments that will help nadal, as he is my favorite player, but I can't ignore the obvious.

 

[Heavy Metal Tennis Star]

who cares about andy and james, they are only famous in the states, LOL

 

[sureshs]

Federer and Nadal have met secretely and decided to have some fun. They are each going to bagel Andy and James, whoever they happen to meet. The bet is who will be able to achieve a double bagel (or triple bagel in RG).

No, seriously, the US TDs must have contacted Andy and James and asked them to say this (in return for more appearance fees). Just like the European TDs must have approached Fed and Nadal.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Maybe he means popular with fans and therefore with sponsors? Maybe in Europe MC is popular and it is widely televised but here the only channel that was showing it was the Tennis Channel.

so are you speaking about the worldwide TV coverage or only about the US TV coverage ?

 

[Rataplan]

If tennis was all about numbers and figures, we should make it very simple.
Just move the entire damn ATP to the emerging Asian markets and be done with it. Big investors, cheap labor, huge markets,...


There has to be a balance between the business side of things and the sport itself.
Monte Carlo doesn't have the attendancy Cincy has, no. However, Monte Carlo is currently financially secure, there's a packed house for years now (with the tournament sold out before it started this year) and it's well liked by the players.
There is no reason at all to downgrade Monte Carlo.
Hamburg is perhaps a different matter but that's due to a bad time in the schedule, I think.

 

[Heavy Metal Tennis Star]

if they downgrade monte carlo, the one in shanghai where its supposed to be the replacer should still be CLAY!!!!!!!!!.

 

[KBalla08]

Houston has been canceled. The owners are converting the place to have more soccer and fitness and less tennis, and getting rid of the clay courts.

its not canceled, its just moving from houston

 

[Chadwixx]

Does anyone care what roddick and blake really think? 2nd tier players who are only ranked in the top 10 because they get soft draws and preferrential scheduling on american soil. Its no wonder their stance on this.

Houston vs monte carlo? Lol

 

[Chadwixx]

As I stated, they should not be speaking on behalf of all the ATP players, and the events that have been brought up in this thread are FAR SUPERIOR in numbers than those that may be downgraded. NUMBERS DON'T LIE. THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE. Learn how to count. 180 thousand equals more than 70,000??

Do you understand how these attendance numbers are attained? These arent the number of people who showed up to the event, they are people who had tickets (given/purchased). In the nba they claim they sell out every night (attendance is up this year lol), yet you can see the stands arent full. I saw a full house at mc yet miami didnt have 20 ppl in the stands for the first week.

 

[sureshs]

its not canceled, its just moving from houston

Sorry, that is what I meant. It is going to Shanghai I think.

 

[drakulie]

I saw a full house at mc yet miami didnt have 20 ppl in the stands for the first week.

20 people? OK. LMAO!

 

[tennisjunkiela]

if they downgrade monte carlo, the one in shanghai where its supposed to be the replacer should still be CLAY!!!!!!!!!.

i agree totally!

currently there are 5 hard court master series tournaments,
1 carpet,
and 3 clay court tournaments

if the atp downgrades monte carlo and hamburg, there will only be 1 clay court master series left! that would be unfair to the clay courters (i.e. europeans & south americans) while giving an unfair advantage to the hard court specialists (i.e. americans).

 

[erswimmer02]

Of course the Americans dont care if these events (MC and Hamburg) get knocked off masters level...they are CLAY EVENTS!!! they dont win points on clay events, why wouldnt they want them off the masters schedule..

 

[amarone]

Sorry, that is what I meant. It is going to Shanghai I think.

That would be a novelty - playing the US Clay Court Championships in China. The tournament is indeed moving from Westside, expected to be to River Oaks in... Houston.

Shanghai is planned to get a Masters Series event after downgrading Monte Carlo and Hamburg.

 

[tenniko]

Just a thought.

They should have a Masters event in grass.

 

[NamRanger]

i agree totally!

currently there are 5 hard court master series tournaments,
1 carpet,
and 3 clay court tournaments

if the atp downgrades monte carlo and hamburg, there will only be 1 clay court master series left! that would be unfair to the clay courters (i.e. europeans & south americans) while giving an unfair advantage to the hard court specialists (i.e. americans).

There isn't even a grass court master, you don't see guys like Tim Henman complaining do you? At least the claycourters get a longer season, and a whole slew of tournaments to pick up points in, for grass there are like 4-5 tournaments.

 

[fgzhu88]

wow. I thought this thread was about a doubles match.

 

[db379]

I´m not sure how you guys count, but I don´t think attendance to a tournament is the only thing that generates money. What about the media coverage, advertisement etc... I think it should be taken into account as well if one wants to know which tournament generates more money. However, I hope that tennis is not only about money!

Regarding Fed/nadal and Rod/blake, they might as well take their arguments onto the court and play a doubles match, and see who wins

 

[tennishead93]

1.wow. whoever said no one cares about Andy and James is a total ******! There are 3 clubs that I kno of in India. When I was watching the US Open on tv there everyone was rooting for Andy and James to take out Fed.

2.Think of how Andy and James feel when they go from USA to Europe back to USA. Fed and Nadal stay in Europe when they are not playing in a tournament.

3.Yes they should have a grass court masters. It should go like this: 2 clay 2 grass 1 carpet 4 hard

 

[tennisjunkiela]

Yes they should have a grass court masters. It should go like this: 2 clay 2 grass 1 carpet 4 hard

i agree they should have a grass court master series.

since the atp wants to reduce the master series to 8, i would propose 3 hard, 3 clay, 1 carpet and 1 grass