Fed will not play rinky dink tournaments to break Connors record

La Vigésima said:
Perhaps you didn't intend to come across this way, but it seems you feel awfully entitled to 36.5-year-old family-man Fed's finite reserves of time and physical exertion.
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I am not entitled to his time. You are right to point his most important commitments to his wife and their children.
 
La Vigésima said:
Perhaps you didn't intend to come across this way, but it seems you feel awfully entitled to 36.5-year-old family-man Fed's finite reserves of time and physical exertion.
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I am not entitled to his time. You are right to point his most important commitments to his wife and their children.
 
Even if he’s within 1-2 wins of the record, I don’t see him entering some 250 event he hasn’t played in 20 years to chase it. I think he’d feel like it’s not worth it if that’s what it takes, no matter how close he is.

Playing Rotterdam does not compare.
 
EloQuent said:
I'd be curious if anyone has a breakdown of Connors' titles broken down by quality of event. Size of draw, rank of entrants, any other way you can think of to map out which are equivalent to masters, 500, 250, challengers
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Here are the tournaments he won from '72 to '76:

1972:
Jacksonville (Indoor/Hard)
Albany (Outdoor/Carpet)
Cincinnati (Outdoor/Clay)
Columbus (Outdoor/Hard)
London / Queen's Club (Outdoor/Grass)
Roanoke (Outdoor/Hard)

1973:
Johannesburg (Outdoor/Hard)
Quebec (Indoor/Hard)
Los Angeles (Outdoor/Hard)
Columbus (Outdoor/Hard)
Boston (Outdoor/Hard)
Paramus (Indoor/Hard)
Hampton (Indoor/Hard)
Salisbury (Indoor/Hard)
Salt Lake City (Indoor/Hard)
Roanoke (Outdoor/Hard)
Baltimore (Indoor/Hard)

1974:
Johannesburg (Outdoor/Hard)
London (Indoor/Carpet)
Los Angeles (Outdoor/Hard)
US Open (Outdoor/Grass)
Indianapolis (Outdoor/Clay)
Wimbledon (Outdoor/Grass)
Manchester (Outdoor/Grass)
Tempe (Outdoor/Hard)
Salt Lake City (Indoor/Hard)
Hampton (Indoor/Carpet)
Salisbury (Indoor/Carpet)
Birmingham (Indoor/Carpet)
Little Rock (Indoor/Carpet)
Roanoke (Indoor/Hard)
Australian Open (Outdoor/Grass)

1975:
Maui (Outdoor/Hard)
Bermuda (Outdoor/Clay)
North Conway (Outdoor/Clay)
Denver WCT (Indoor/Carpet)
Hampton (Indoor/Carpet)
Boca Raton (Outdoor/Hard)
Salisbury (Indoor/Carpet)
Birmingham (Indoor/Carpet)
Bahamas (Outdoor/Hard)

1976:
Wembley (Indoor/Carpet)
Cologne (Indoor/Carpet)
US Open (Outdoor/Clay)
North Conway (Outdoor/Clay)
Indianapolis (Outdoor/Clay)
Washington (Outdoor/Clay)
Las Vegas (Outdoor/Hard)
Denver WCT (Indoor/Carpet)
Palm Springs (Outdoor/Hard)
Hampton (Indoor/Carpet)
Philadelphia WCT (Indoor/Carpet)
Birmingham (Indoor/Carpet)

Some of them are... not exactly impressive. I mean, Maui? Roanoke? Salisbury? North Conway? Tempe? Hampton? Little Rock? Jacksonville? Columbus? And let's not forget Bermuda and the Bahamas... There's some serious stuff in there. ;)
 
merlinpinpin said:
Here are the tournaments he won from '72 to '76:

1972:
Jacksonville (Indoor/Hard)
Albany (Outdoor/Carpet)
Cincinnati (Outdoor/Clay)
Columbus (Outdoor/Hard)
London / Queen's Club (Outdoor/Grass)
Roanoke (Outdoor/Hard)

1973:
Johannesburg (Outdoor/Hard)
Quebec (Indoor/Hard)
Los Angeles (Outdoor/Hard)
Columbus (Outdoor/Hard)
Boston (Outdoor/Hard)
Paramus (Indoor/Hard)
Hampton (Indoor/Hard)
Salisbury (Indoor/Hard)
Salt Lake City (Indoor/Hard)
Roanoke (Outdoor/Hard)
Baltimore (Indoor/Hard)

1974:
Johannesburg (Outdoor/Hard)
London (Indoor/Carpet)
Los Angeles (Outdoor/Hard)
US Open (Outdoor/Grass)
Indianapolis (Outdoor/Clay)
Wimbledon (Outdoor/Grass)
Manchester (Outdoor/Grass)
Tempe (Outdoor/Hard)
Salt Lake City (Indoor/Hard)
Hampton (Indoor/Carpet)
Salisbury (Indoor/Carpet)
Birmingham (Indoor/Carpet)
Little Rock (Indoor/Carpet)
Roanoke (Indoor/Hard)
Australian Open (Outdoor/Grass)

1975:
Maui (Outdoor/Hard)
Bermuda (Outdoor/Clay)
North Conway (Outdoor/Clay)
Denver WCT (Indoor/Carpet)
Hampton (Indoor/Carpet)
Boca Raton (Outdoor/Hard)
Salisbury (Indoor/Carpet)
Birmingham (Indoor/Carpet)
Bahamas (Outdoor/Hard)

1976:
Wembley (Indoor/Carpet)
Cologne (Indoor/Carpet)
US Open (Outdoor/Clay)
North Conway (Outdoor/Clay)
Indianapolis (Outdoor/Clay)
Washington (Outdoor/Clay)
Las Vegas (Outdoor/Hard)
Denver WCT (Indoor/Carpet)
Palm Springs (Outdoor/Hard)
Hampton (Indoor/Carpet)
Philadelphia WCT (Indoor/Carpet)
Birmingham (Indoor/Carpet)

Some of them are... not exactly impressive. I mean, Maui? Roanoke? Salisbury? North Conway? Tempe? Hampton? Little Rock? Jacksonville? Columbus? And let's not forget Bermuda and the Bahamas... There's some serious stuff in there. ;)
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Can you rank them based on some solid metric? What kind of draw did he face, etc?
 
Let’s see, 97 now

Assume he skips clay.

Wins Stuttgart (250) and Halle (500) in Wimbledon preparation. Let’s say he wins that as well, so he could be at 100 after Wimbledon. After that, US Open series in Montreal, Cincy, Basel, Shanghai, possibly Paris and the WTF. Assuming things go to plan, he could end with 103-104. After that, I suspect a drop off for 2019. He can’t hold this forever uno. He’ll be back in Dubai, Halle, Stuttgart, Basel, possibly Brisbane?? He’s got Wimbledon, the Aussie, and USO left with the masters series tournaments as well. If he’s at 104, IF, he can get Basel, Stuttgart, Halle, at the least. If he’s at that number, he’ll end 2019 with 107. At that point I believe he’ll choose to play a lot of 250s to get over the line, because he’s pushing 39 at that point and he may not be able to challenge masters series or slams anymore. First, Brisbane for 108, go onto Dubai for 109, to tie Connors record. After that, skip clay, move onto grass. Get Stuttgart 250 for that 110 record.

If you’re going to complain when the greatest player of all time plays in a 250 to reach a record that was deemed unreachable by numerous tennis experts back in the 90s, you’re either out of your mind or a deluded Nadal fan.
 
EloQuent said:
All players are officially required to play 4 ATP500 events and I doubt Federer will play more than 3 this year (Halle & Basel). So playing a 500 to hit #1 is fine.

He's not going to play a dozen 250 events to chase the 109.
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He won't. Unless he suddenly declines so that can't win Slams, 109 is the only thing left to achieve and 250s are the best way to do it.

I wouldn't even blame him. And it wouldn't even be about playing soo many 250s, he could just mix a couple of them in.
 
EloQuent said:
Can you rank them based on some solid metric? What kind of draw did he face, etc?
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That would be pretty time-consuming, as you'd have to look for them one by one. For example, Jacksonville ('72) was a 16-man draw in which Connors successively beat Cornejo, Rahim, Fillol, and Grabner; Maui '75 was a 32-man draw in which he beat Holmes (not Sherlock^^), Raz Reid, Martin (not Todd^^), Mitton, and Mayer, etc. There were tons of little tournaments all over the place at that time (especially in the USA), with at least three different tours, so it was easy to play a lot of tournaments without facing any top player.
 
merlinpinpin said:
That would be pretty time-consuming, as you'd have to look for them one by one. For example, Jacksonville ('72) was a 16-man draw in which Connors successively beat Cornejo, Rahim, Fillol, and Grabner; Maui '75 was a 32-man draw in which he beat Holmes (not Sherlock^^), Raz Reid, Martin (not Todd^^), Mitton, and Mayer, etc. There were tons of little tournaments all over the place at that time (especially in the USA), with at least three different tours, so it was easy to play a lot of tournaments without facing any top player.
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Where can I find this information?
 
Red Rick said:
He won't. Unless he suddenly declines so that can't win Slams, 109 is the only thing left to achieve and 250s are the best way to do it.

I wouldn't even blame him. And it wouldn't even be about playing soo many 250s, he could just mix a couple of them in.
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I don't think he's faking it when he says he just likes playing, so sure he'll play on as much as he can. If he's at 107 and can't compete at the top level, why not go for the title record.
 
Here are some of Connors’ “rinky-dink” tourneys:

1975 Bahamas- toughest player he faced was #50 Fassbender. Easy trophy
1973 Baltimore-played nobodies the whole way. Easy trophy.
1975 Bermuda- did beat #19 Gerulaitis, otherwise, everybody else ranked outside top 70 easy trophy
1974-1976, 1978-1980 Birmingham- played a total of 4 guys ranked in the top 20 to collect those 6 trophies. I
1975 Boca Raton- toughest player was #50 Fassbender. Easy title
1981 Brussels- highest ranked opponent was #11 Gottfried. Easy title
1976 Cologne- highest ranked opponent was #17 Gottfried. Easy title.
1972, 1973, 1982 Columbus. Played all nobodies there. 3 slam dunk titles


I went in alphabetical order. So far,that is 11 cream puff titles where he faced nobody in the top 10. That’s 8 titles where he faced nobody in the top 20. And I only made it though the letter “C”.

Connors had it far easier than Federer did. The strength of his schedule is not even in the same Ball Park.

I could keep going with this. But letters A-C give us a huge idea how many of these draws were cream puffs. Many of those are tourneys today would be classified as 125 series.
 
Pheasant said:
Here are some of Connors’ “rinky-dink” tourneys:
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Fed himself used the term "rinky dink" to Brad Gilbert after he beat Ferrer in Montreal, and when BG said, "what exactly would be a 'rinky dink' event?" Fed backed off and obviously wouldn't name a specific venue. But then he said he would never play a 250 event he'd never played before "just to get to 109 or 110." He said that wasn't even in his sights at that time (August, 2017). He mentioned that he'd played a 250 in Istanbul and he'd consider returning there because he liked it and liked the conditions. But he would not play small events with which he has no history just to pass Jimbo's record. He reiterated that mindset yesterday as well.
 
ibbi said:
He says after playing a random 500 to get a record...
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Again, this is apples and oranges. ;) He's played and won Rotterdam multiple times in the past and he's not even close to Connors 109 titles. Roger means that if he's 38 years old and is sitting at 105 titles, he won't chase down 250's to play simply to pass Connors.
 
Shank Volley said:
Maybe he'll start taking scheduling lessons from your boy. How many 250s has Thiem entered so far this season? One for each letter of the word vulture?
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Thiem's vulturing cupboard is bare so Buenos Aires a welcome addition. Fraud played Hopman which is worse than a 250 in many ways. Praying that Thiem does a July clay run this year to get fully back to his vulturing ways. The buzzard went to the new event in Turkey last year on grass and dumped first match, but as far as I can tell he'll be 250 free until then or later this year.:rolleyes:
 
fedfan39 said:
Downvote. Downvote.

- Any ATP 500 event is important.
- This was a strategic stroke of a genius. Fed is now number 1 and will be so until at least IW regardless of what Nadal does at Acapulco.
- It is all but given that Fed is done playing a 250 event save for Stuttgart maybe. So his comment still stands.
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I wouldn't be so sure. He could stop playing Hopman Cup and start playing Brisbane or Doha, both are 250s, and both are events that Federer does enjoy playing in. So, he can put in tournaments here or there with the right justification, as preparation for a slam. Heck, he might even do Istanbul on clay later, to say he needs clay matches because he wants to give RG a shot again. I wouldn't put it past someone as driven as Federer.
 
Has anyone got the stats for Connor's 109 ATP titles:

# slams: 8
# YEC: ?
# Masters (equivalent): ?
# Rinky dink and mickey mouse tournaments: ?
 
Druss said:
Has anyone got the stats for Connor's 109 ATP titles:

# slams: 8
# YEC: ?
# Masters (equivalent): ?
# Rinky dink and mickey mouse tournaments: ?
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I think the problem is that nobody seems to have clearly defined which tournaments are equivalent to Masters and which are mickey mouse
 
EloQuent said:
I think the problem is that nobody seems to have clearly defined which tournaments are equivalent to Masters and which are mickey mouse
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Oh yes, this has been done. See timnz' thread with the "weight" of each player's achievements in the Open Era as far as ranking points are concerned--you'll find your answer there. ;)
 
merlinpinpin said:
How is Hopman "worse"? It's not even counted. How can you "vulture" something that won't even end up on your resume, except maybe as a footnote? :eek:

:rolleyes:
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I thought all titles count in title count even davis cup abd olympics etc

As for that user they are a troll/humiliated butthurt fan
 
Aitkers said:
I thought all titles count in title count even davis cup abd olympics etc

As for that user they are a troll/humiliated butthurt fan
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No, Hopman Cup doesn't count, and neither do the Olympics and Davis Cup. (World Team Cup in Dusseldorf isn't counted either.) These are not ATP events, and ATP events (plus the four slams) are the only ones that get counted.
 
EloQuent said:
link?
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I just bumped it on page 1. ;)

Edit: unless I'm mistaken, according to timnz, Connors has got 28 M1000 or more wins, which means 81 tournaments that are 500 or lower. (timnz also credits him with 49 500's, which would mean 32 250's or less) This is not 100% exact science, though, because these tournaments (1000's, 500's, etc.) didn't exist at the time, and ranking points awarded varied greaty from one event to the next. Gives a pretty good idea, though. :)
 
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merlinpinpin said:
How is Hopman "worse"? It's not even counted. How can you "vulture" something that won't even end up on your resume, except maybe as a footnote? :eek:

:rolleyes:
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Meles isn't even worth the energy. He's possibly the worst poster on this forum. At least with the you know who of Nadal fans they're consistent with what they say. Here it's like a child with attention deficiencies bouncing from one outlandish statement to another.
 
merlinpinpin said:
I just bumped it on page 1. ;)

Edit: unless I'm mistaken, according to timnz, Connors has got 28 M1000 or more wins, which means 81 tournaments that are 500 or lower. (timnz also credits him with 49 500's, which would mean 32 250's or less) This is not 100% exact science, though, because these tournaments (1000's, 500's, etc.) didn't exist at the time, and ranking points awarded varied greaty from one event to the next. Gives a pretty good idea, though. :)
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found it. Couldn't find a tournament by tournament breakdown, or how many of the minor events were sub-250 level
 
Red Rick said:
He won't. Unless he suddenly declines so that can't win Slams, 109 is the only thing left to achieve and 250s are the best way to do it.

I wouldn't even blame him. And it wouldn't even be about playing soo many 250s, he could just mix a couple of them in.
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Challengers are an even better way to do it.

:rolleyes:
 
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ibbi said:
He says after playing a random 500 to get a record...
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That was hardly a random 500. There are 4 committment 500's to play each year; last year he only played 3 and got a zero-pointer for the fourth. Last year he played Dubai, Halle and Basel. This year he skipped Dubai and played Rotterdam which he's played in the past. Even if he does decide to play Dubai after all, those two along with Halle and Basel will cmplete the 4 committment 500s. WTH is random about that?
 
He just makes them all look rinky-dink (because the competition is so poor), even slams.


Hail Fedr! Greatest being in the universe!
 
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The record is for most titles not most majors. Clearly H2H 20 is greater than 8 in the majors.

I will leave it to the US Open in 2020 when Roger is a fresh 39 and see if he gets to the semis. 1991 was a lot of fun watching Jimbo.
 
hoodjem said:
He just makes them look rinky-dink because the competition is so poor.
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nadalface.gif


8-)
 
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