Fedal fans- do you hate Djokovic for crashing their party?
- Thread starter Djokovic2011
- Start date
Ok you win, Nole did more damage to Rafa. Because Fed is greater player than Rafa, so of course Fed doesn't let Nole to do him as much damage.
I hope you are happy now
.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
No hate. Surprised is the word I would of used...
FanOfLu
Professional
I dislike Djokovic because he is a faker, he fakes his injury and using MTO to his advantage (eg. 2011 US Open final, 2014 Wimbledon final). And I know people will starting saying Nadal takes them too, but for Christ's sake, Nadal's injury is genuine unlike Novak's. Nadal misses so many slams due to injury you can't really put Nadal on the same page as Djokovic. The fact is Djokovic is really taking advantage of declined Federer and Nadal who were basically slaughtering each other years before Djokovic was relevant is a pure illustration of the pathetic and sad state the tennis world is in right now with no youngsters to challenge and take over, like the way Nadal challenged Federer. It took Djokovic five sets to beat old Fed with a bad back in Wimbledon, and some stupid luck to save 2 M.Ps in 2011 US Open semi to earn his lone US Open in his absolute peak shows that Djokovic is simply an opportunist kind of like Federer at FO who finally got his luck in 2009 without going through the clay GOAT. I can't really stand his boring game with his pathetic forehand which was exposed by Nadal in the last year's US Open where he got humiliated in the final set. Also his smash is grandma-like and I just want to puke every time he dumps an overhead into the net. The way he cheated against Wawrinka in 2013 Australian Open was absolutely disgusting, and his 2012 Australian Open Final celebration was the most stupid and childish behaviour I've seen on a tennis court, just look at how Nadal behaved in 2009 Australian Open Final, he was a true gentleman even though Federer was stealing his moment.
FanOfLu
Professional
Hey FanOfLu, don't hold back, tell us what you really feel
I feel angry, and I think I need help.
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I dislike Djokovic because he is a faker, he fakes his injury and using MTO to his advantage (eg. 2011 US Open final, 2014 Wimbledon final). And I know people will starting saying Nadal takes them too, but for Christ's sake, Nadal's injury is genuine unlike Novak's. Nadal misses so many slams due to injury you can't really put Nadal on the same page as Djokovic. The fact is Djokovic is really taking advantage of declined Federer and Nadal who were basically slaughtering each other years before Djokovic was relevant is a pure illustration of the pathetic and sad state the tennis world is in right now with no youngsters to challenge and take over, like the way Nadal challenged Federer. It took Djokovic five sets to beat old Fed with a bad back in Wimbledon, and some stupid luck to save 2 M.Ps in 2011 US Open semi to earn his lone US Open in his absolute peak shows that Djokovic is simply an opportunist kind of like Federer at FO who finally got his luck in 2009 without going through the clay GOAT. I can't really stand his boring game with his pathetic forehand which was exposed by Nadal in the last year's US Open where he got humiliated in the final set. Also his smash is grandma-like and I just want to puke every time he dumps an overhead into the net. The way he cheated against Wawrinka in 2013 Australian Open was absolutely disgusting, and his 2012 Australian Open Final celebration was the most stupid and childish behaviour I've seen on a tennis court, just look at how Nadal behaved in 2009 Australian Open Final, he was a true gentleman even though Federer was stealing his moment.
But apart from all this, you think he's a great guy right? :lol:
Well,I don't hate him or anything,but he's definitely not as interesting as Nadal/Federer. They have their own quirky characteristics that set them apart and make them widely recognizable and transcend the sport. Djokovic just doesn't have anything that sets him apart. He always looks the same,he always plays the same...
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
ROS, defensive backhand, flexibility?
FanOfLu
Professional
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
It's really not that great.
I bet you still wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating biscuits though. :wink:
newpball
Legend
Your avatar is Keizer an old Dutch soccer player?
FanOfLu
Professional
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Ok you win, Nole did more damage to Rafa. Because Fed is greater player than Rafa, so of course Fed doesn't let Nole to do him as much damage.
I hope you are happy now
No arguments there. Nole could have certainly beaten Fed at USO 07-09 and Fed didn't let him, likewise at Wimb 12.
If we can agree that Fed is greater than Rafa, but the gap between the two has been widened due to Nole I would be good with that.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
This, and he's always begging for attention. I don't like or hate him, he's just not my cup of tea, I prefer Red Bull to wake me up
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Murray's win over Nadal was due to injury retirement whereas Murray beat a healthy Fed at AO and yet you discount that as a possibility.
And FO 2012, USO 2010, USO 2011 do not matter as he would have faced Nadal in those finals if there was no Nole and still lost. So its 3 vs 3 that matter in terms of slams lost damage. The best you could argue is a wash but I think there are arguments to the contrary for both AO 08 and AO 11 to indicate that more damage was done to Nadal.
I don't think he was in awful form, but thats the excuse YOU use every time regarding the loss (lol he went 5 with Tipsy is all I hear from you).
If that is the case how can you say he would win the slam in that awful form? DRM posted a stat a while ago looking at Winners + Forced Errors vs Unforced Errors for all big 4 players and the stats of other big contenders in tournaments they beat Big 4 players. Tsonga AO 08 came in as the highest metric of ANY player at ANY tournament. His level was massive.
So wait, Nole 08 > MonoFed 08 > Wimb Fed 11
but
RG 11 Nadal > RG Fed 11 > RG Nole 11 > USO Fed 11 > USO 11 Nadal?
:roll:
Fed losing in 4 sets to Nadal at the French in 2011 and in a Bo3 at Cincy in 2013 indicate he would have beaten Nadal in the 2011 USO?
How many times did they play Bo5 2011+ after Murray peaked?
12 Wimbledon F, 12 Olympics F, 13 AO SF, 14 AO QF =
8-8 in sets, 2-2 in matches.
Nadal vs Fed 08+ after Nadal peaked?
08 RG, 11 RG, 08 Wimb, 09, 12, 14 AO =
18-6 Nadal in sets, 6-0 in matches.
If you are talking about over-all achievements, sure he hurt Fed just as much as he left him with a bunch of SF instead of F. But if you mean in terms of the slams won count, he took 3 off Nadal for sure and 1 off Fed for sure, with 1 other possible.
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Mayonnaise
Banned
When is Nadal not injured? :lol: Murray had a chance to beat Nadal in 2012 at the AO, considering the fight he gave Djokovic. It's funny how you just hand it to Nadal as a given.
And why couldn't Federer beat Nadal at the USO? He bageled Nadal at the WTF that same year, and gave Djokovic a tougher match at the USO than Nadal did. Way closer, in fact.
He wasn't in awful form, he was unhealthy. Now, it's not a given he would have beaten Tsonga, but you can't discount the chance just because it doesn't favor your argument :lol: I'd give him at least a 50% chance.
I don't care for some meaningless stats about winners and losers. Fact is, it'd be a 12-time Slam winner in his 11th consecutive final versus a 0-time Slam champion in his first Slam final. Again, Tsonga could've won, but so could have Federer. You can't give Federer literally 0 chance.
Federer was healthy by French Open in 2008. So 2008 Wimbledon Federer is not monofed. Also, there are different playing levels for every player at different Slams. But good troll attempt :lol:
Remember how Federer lost to Nadal in 4 at the 2006 French and beat him in 4 at Wimbledon? USO favors Federer. He could have beaten Nadal there in 2011. Again, he gave Djokovic a much closer match.
The Olympics was basically a non-Slam surface. The grass was so worn out. And it isn't a Slam, anyway. Stop grasping at straws :lol: Murray beat Federer at a Slam once, and that was 31 year-old Federer in his worst season since 2002. Don't make me laugh with Murray being any challenge to Federer in 2011, when Murray wasn't even in his peak, and Federer was much better than his 2013 self.
They never met at the USO. And the one time they played on a North American Hardcourt, with Nadal in sparkling form and Federer looking horrid, it was a tight 3-sets affair in 2013. 2011 would have been anybody's match. Again, Federer gave Djokovic a much closer match and would go on to destroy Nadal a month later at the WTF.
Wins against Nadal:
1. Wimbledon 2011: I give Nadal this one
2. USO 2011: 50-50 with Federer, so this is a wash
3. AO 2012: I give Nadal 75-25
So Djokovic took away 2.25 Slams off Nadal.
Wins against Federer:
1. Wimbledon 2014: I give Federer 80-20 on this one against Dimitrov
2. AO 2008: I give Federer 40-60 on this one (semifinal + final)
3. USO 2010: I give Federer 20-80 on this one (semifinal + final)
4. USO 2011: I give Federer 50-50 on this one (semifinal + final)
5. AO 2011: I give Federer 80-20 on this one (semifinal + final)
6. FO 2012: I give Federer 0-100 on this one (semifinal + final)
So Djokovic took away 2.7 Slams off Federer.
2.7 > 2.25
And this is because Djokovic got to play post-prime Federer for the most part, and prime Nadal for the most part.
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smiley_face
Rookie
That's Johnny Rep or Johan Neeskens?
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newpball
Legend
I would think neither.
Keizer
Hall of Fame
It's isn't though those two are among my favorites.
Right on. It's Rob Rensenbrink, from the same teams. Probably one of my favorite ever old time sportsmen.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Looks like King Juan Carlos Ferrero!
Keizer
Hall of Fame
Haha, get hold of a picture with better resolution and they don't look very alike.
smiley_face
Rookie
My mistake. How can I forget his face. I still remember his shot in the very last minutes in the 1978 World Cup final with Argentina. If it doesn't hit the side post, history will change forever.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
@Djokovic2011 I think you are oversimplifying things when saying Fedal fans hate Djokovic.
I'm sure many of them from both camps don't hate him.
For sure Djokovic doesn't have much hate as Nadal here. People on this forum usually dislike more the fans (best example is Chico) than the actual player.
You can't blame Djokovic much anyway, except when he yells a crowds but no player is perfect. Federer and Nadal surely aren't.
I'm sure many of them from both camps don't hate him.
For sure Djokovic doesn't have much hate as Nadal here. People on this forum usually dislike more the fans (best example is Chico) than the actual player.
You can't blame Djokovic much anyway, except when he yells a crowds but no player is perfect. Federer and Nadal surely aren't.
Keizer
Hall of Fame
Yep, I wasn't alive then, but if there was one sporting result I would change if I could alter history it would be that one. He was a phenomenal player, but now that everyone associates him with that one miss they underrate him to infinity. IMO he was in no way an inferior all around player to Robben (was top 5 in the Ballon d Or standings from '76-'78 in fact). But he was more elegant, probably one of Netherlands top 5 all-time wingers for me.
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AssaultJoker
Banned
No, Djokovic isn't into such things, if he feels pain taking MTO is an obvious choice. Nole is regarded by many as the definition of sportsmanship.
Nadal is clearly faking his injury, the reason why he skips Slams is because he is not good enough to play long periods of time, he needs vacations.
The fact is Djokovic was a baby back them, since the time he matured in 2011 it wasn't relevant who were his opponents because Djokovic was too good for them. No wonder that Djokovic is the player of the present decade, he established his own era.
Djokovic won these matches, the rest are excuses. Nadal was outplayed by peak Soderling in 2009, you're bitter that Fed was able to beat peak Robin unlike Nadal.
Nadal was exposed since US Open 2013, lost 6 straight sets in a row on hardcourts (2 of these sets were at WTF). Djokovic is smarter than Nadal, he always finds solutions at the end of the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkH4q8FQ5Rs#t=12m44s
Nadal cheated Coria touching the net.
At least it was smooth unlike this walking duck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyw2vDUDw5U
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Nadal retired from a slam match, how often has that happened? I concede though you are correct in that I should not give it as a 100% to Nadal and give Murray a fighting chance.
Giving Djokovic a tougher match does not mean a whole lot to me considering the match-ups. It indicates Federer was playing at a very high level for sure, but the Federer vs Nole match-up is more neutral than either vs Nadal. Especially in 2011 considering the mental edge Nole had over Nadal, and the entire career of Nadal's mental edge vs Fed, I don't think you can extrapolate results of matches of both vs Nole to say how a match between Fed/Nadal have gone. Also the WTF is indoors, a completely different surface shown by Nadal's career on fast outdoor hards vs indoors.
How is it meaningless? Winners + Forced Errors vs Unforced Errors quantifies level of play pretty well as aggressive margin. Pretty deep analysis went into Aggressive Margin.
Tsonga at AO 08 was at the highest level for this of any player outside of the big 4 (including slam winning Del Po and Wawrinka forms) and above all Plexicushion renditions of Fed. I'll agree I can't give Fed 0 chance, but I'd favor Tsonga heavily.
How did the 15 slam winner Fed vs first time slam finalist Del Po go at USO 09? 1)A court better suited for Fed on a surface he has 5 titles on vs 1 on Plexi
2)Stats show Tsonga AO 08 was playing at a similar level if not better than Del Po USO 09
3)Fed at AO 08 was well below his USO 09 form
How does that relate to anything? I was saying:
Wimbledon 2011 Fed > AO 08 Fed
AO 08 Tsonga > Wimb 11 Tsonga
and Tsonga beat Fed at Wimb 11 on a surface Fed is much better on.
Lol yes I remember 20 year old Nadal who had never won anything outside of clay still taking a set off peak Federer. How does that show Nadal in his USO prime vs Fed (who you like to call "*******" at this stage) would beat Nadal?
Federer and Murray never met in 2011 and had comparable season results and they split their Bo5s in 2012+. How does the Olympics not count for Bo5 especially when Fed himself has said how much he values it? He wasn't tanking the olympic final like he might have Cincy 06.
And again the Djokovic match-up is not transferable to say who would have won Fed vs Nadal.
The Cincy match is a faster court than USO, is a Bo3 unlikes USO, and the WTF is a different surface all together.
I think your estimates are way inflated for Federer, but I'll concede my initial numbers before this discussion were inflated for Nadal slightly. Lol at anything above a 0% chance for Fed at USO 2010 vs absolute USO peak Nadal with the mental edge from 3 straight slam wins on 3 different courts
. Nadal:
1. Wimbledon 2011: 100%
2. USO 2011: 80%
3. AO 2012: 80%
Total = 2.6 Slams
Federer:
1. Wimbledon 2014: 75%
2. AO 2008: 20%
3. USO 2010: 0%
4. USO 2011: 20%
5. AO 2011: 50%
6. FO 2012: 0%
Total = 1.65 Slams
As I said, I'd wager 3 slams lost for Nadal vs 1 for Fed with 1 other possible, so about a 1-2 slam difference. Accounting for the slight odds Fed could win at USO 2011 or AO 08, I'd say its closer to about 1 more slam of damage (with potential for greater going forward).
Which is precisely the point, Prime Federer didn't have to deal with prime Nole, while prime Nadal does.
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Edgecrusher
Professional
In 2011 Djoker won 6 consecutive finals against Rafa. If you Count AO ´12 final then it´s 7 consecutive finals.
This is kinda funny to me. I am sure that a lot of tennis fans are also fans of soccer, boxing and so on. What are you doing when the guys on court scream their souls out of their bodies after winning / scoring a goal etc.???
vernonbc
Legend
Why are so many Djokovic fans just like Djokovic himself - desperate for attention and love and distraught that he isn't a favourite like Fedal?
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
Hey OP, I don't hate Nole for crashing my party. I hate Djokovic fans. Before them reminding me how great Nole is I would have the perception Nole still isn't a threat. I would be fine and happy living in a delusion.
Because perception is a lot how fans speak about players. If nobody praised Nole I wouldn't have the impression Nole is that great.
So, thanks you Djokovic fans who destroyed my illusion of Fed's greatness. Shame on you.
Because perception is a lot how fans speak about players. If nobody praised Nole I wouldn't have the impression Nole is that great.
So, thanks you Djokovic fans who destroyed my illusion of Fed's greatness. Shame on you
.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Well if I didn't pose the question how else would I ever find out?? As for being "distraught", far from it.
Keizer
Hall of Fame
Oh yeah! I didn't even notice...
Great player indeed!
Haha, he isn't the most well known so I'm guessing you're Dutch/lived in the Netherlands at some point. EDIT: Saw your reply to me on another thread, so yes you are.
Yep, not sure that many young people in the Netherlands know of him. That team is all about Cruyff and Neeskens and to a lesser extent, Rep and Krol.
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DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
Bump
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
You just want to watch the world burn, don't you?
DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
#TheDarkKnightYou just want to watch the world burn, don't you?
DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
I'm the hero TTW deserves, but not the one it needs right now
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
You are the Dark Knight
FudgeControl
Banned
The easiest and most reasonable answer is simple: they simply dislike him because they think he is boring and has a bad personality. If that's the case, then doubly so for Federer and Nadal. I don't need to see the same inside-out forehand 40 times in a match, only for you to lose in straight sets. And I certainly don't care about hitting the ball very hard until your opponent gives in.
No doubt all 3 players are very good, but everyone has their own opinions.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Surely he would be the Joker.
uliks
Banned
Yes, we love you too Fedinkum!
Talker
Hall of Fame
I was never a Djokovic fan but......
What he did in 2011 was very exciting to me, I never saw such unflinching nerve or commonly called mental strength.
The battles with Nadal were epic.
The only thing missing was that I would of liked to see a final at RG for Nole that year.
So if your going to crash a party then the way Djokovic did it was the right way.
What he did in 2011 was very exciting to me, I never saw such unflinching nerve or commonly called mental strength.
The battles with Nadal were epic.
The only thing missing was that I would of liked to see a final at RG for Nole that year.
So if your going to crash a party then the way Djokovic did it was the right way.
