Federer’s actual Frame specs!

Nice! 3D printing sounds great but how do you know the unstrung custom pallets will fit on your hairpin? ie what are the inside dimensions of the printed pallet?

Before i start anything on the handle i measure the dimensions of the graphite hairpin i can see inside the buttcap, and at the top of the handle using the groove i cut. Just to know that if i stuff up badly, i can take off the molded handle and put Head pallets on. But Head pallets measure about 17 x 25mm on the inside and are pretty small, they wont fit on most racquet hairpins..... but the RF97 seems to be one of the rare Wilsons that have a hairpin handle small enough for the Head pallets to fit, and i think they must have done that deliberately.

That’s the best part the already have all the different frame hairpin dimensions in a database. You just tell them the racquet model and what shape you want the grip to be, and they’ll print it.
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
That’s the best part the already have all the different frame hairpin dimensions in a database. You just tell them the racquet model and what shape you want the grip to be, and they’ll print it.
Thats awesome! I have thought about making a mold to pour my own foam handles since hairpins are all different but its difficult and expensive. This is so much easier!
 
Thats awesome! I have thought about making a mold to pour my own foam handles since hairpins are all different but its difficult and expensive. This is so much easier!
Yeah, I was researching how to make a handle like Soderling’s where you make the mold with the leather grip still wrapped around the handle and just wrap an OG over the foam when the 3D printed pallets came out. It seemed like it would have taken days of work with no guaranteed outcome since the shops that do it keep the process and materials a secret. When I talked to Unstrung last they were still working to get pallets like that to be stable, so I’m hopeful to get some on my next order.


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jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Nice! 3D printing sounds great but how do you know the unstrung custom pallets will fit on your hairpin? ie what are the inside dimensions of the printed pallet?

Before i start anything on the handle i measure the dimensions of the graphite hairpin i can see inside the buttcap, and at the top of the handle using the groove i cut. Just to know that if i stuff up badly, i can take off the molded handle and put Head pallets on. But Head pallets measure about 17 x 25mm on the inside and are pretty small, they wont fit on most racquet hairpins..... but the RF97 seems to be one of the rare Wilsons that have a hairpin handle small enough for the Head pallets to fit, and i think they must have done that deliberately.
Is it possible the smaller hairpin handle is a result of the RF97A having an H22 lineage, and so ultimately being quite closely 'related' to a Head Radical?
 

Benben245

Professional
Its not the stick, its how it is used that matters. Same stick as 2017 more or less, but its owner is not the same player. The variances in specs since 2013 are large enough to make the various sticks stand alone relative to their constituents with the RF97 somewhere within the distribution curve. Therefore, it stands to question, if your not looking for one of his actual sticks used in match play, why not fiddle with three RF97a and arbitrarily configure three different layups. If one of us had one of his sticks from 2017, we certainly wouldnt play like Federer just as his older 90 square inch frame, from his athletic peak years would almost certainly yield different results in the hands of Suresh. There is no holy grail spec, particularly when its luster is derived from a player with a one-handed backhand. Perhaps for the sake of mass applicability, buy a PT113b1 off of Prostock tennis and call it a day. ( PS. I LOVE FED)
 
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polksio

Semi-Pro
The metal plates were put the same way in mine. I actually took off the entire molded handle and had a slightly different shape put on. After it was all done I had ~15g to redistribute so I put some lead at 12 to bring the SW up to my preferred spec and the counterbalanced with silicone in the handle and lead at 7”. I’d highly recommend getting the unstrung customs 3D printed pallets to anyone wanting to try this. The entire process took around an hour, extremely low difficulty, and the weight redistribution has made the racquet feel so plush and maneuverable it’s like unlocking the full frame. Here are some pics:

Hairpin with the foam handle and lead weights removed.


Unstrung customs 3D printed pallets and flared butcap put on.


Lead at the top of the handle to bring the racquet to spec.




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This is NICE, this is how all RFs should come stock, very well done
 

polksio

Semi-Pro

polksio

Semi-Pro
The metal plates were put the same way in mine. I actually took off the entire molded handle and had a slightly different shape put on. After it was all done I had ~15g to redistribute so I put some lead at 12 to bring the SW up to my preferred spec and the counterbalanced with silicone in the handle and lead at 7”. I’d highly recommend getting the unstrung customs 3D printed pallets to anyone wanting to try this. The entire process took around an hour, extremely low difficulty, and the weight redistribution has made the racquet feel so plush and maneuverable it’s like unlocking the full frame. Here are some pics:

Hairpin with the foam handle and lead weights removed.


Unstrung customs 3D printed pallets and flared butcap put on.


Lead at the top of the handle to bring the racquet to spec.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hey thanks, you motivated me to do the same, albeit it's to an xt rev pro, dont look at the last picture if you have OCD
 

leejayh

Rookie
If you are only taking 15 gm (about .5 oz) out of the handle of an rf97, can't that be accomplished by changing the leather grip to a synthetic one? I did that and ended up with a 12.5oz racket, with a balance at 32cm. Now, i certainly like leather better, so if i could take the weight out, and keep the leather that would be great.
 

polksio

Semi-Pro
That’s awesome man, looks like a cool project! How did you go about taking those weights out of the handle?


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Wasn't too hard to do thanks to the way metal is packed in these Head frames
What you'll need:
- An awl
- A hammer
- A couple of thick towels or some sort of buffer (crocs work great)
- A long screwdriver
- A flashlight
First shed some light in there to see what you're working with. It looks something like pic related. I put the buffer between 12' o'clock and the ground and punched a few holes in this sort of cocoon with a hammer and a awl (gotta hammer it at an angle or it slides off) then i switched the awl for a very long screwdriver that you slowly drive inbetween the metal sticks. They are packed very tightly so when you get the tip of the the awl or the screwdriver between them, you can slowly drive it in and they separate and break the cocoon in a satisfying way albeit with some (at first scary) cracks. But in these frames, the cocoon itself is isolated from the handle, its only connected by a graphite layer just thin enough so the cocoon doesnt move around (I would still add some sort of structural support like silicone though). Then you pull them like a dentist (they are very neatly packed so it sometimes take A LOT of effort, think unbolting a 10 year old rusty nut) out with pliers long and thin enough to get in there. Around 30 minutes of work (25 of it being just pulling), the resulting racket was 5 points HH

 
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leejayh

Rookie
What is the best way to remove the PU or foam handle? I have used a magnet on my RF, and it seems metal is all the way up the handle, not just in a pocket. I might remove the whole thing and replace with pallets.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Summary:

Roger's racket = stock +

  1. 3 grams of lead from 11 to 1 (my approximation)
  2. String savers
  3. Power pads
  4. Custom handle with rounded edges

Question for stringers like @Geoff: Can a freshly strung racket retain the deformation of the frame that he is talking about (shorter + wider) after 5 years of no use?

If yes, it is definitely stock + what I said.

If not, it is a custom mold with a different head shape.

A lot hinges on this.
 
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denoted

Rookie
it's close enough---again, refer to the fundamental delusion about this kind of "pro-stock" obsession: his game would be indistinguishable playing with the stock as would yours playing with his customized racquet.
 

Geoff

Hall of Fame
Summary:

Roger's racket = stock +

  1. 3 grams of lead from 11 to 1 (my approximation)
  2. String savers
  3. Power pads
  4. Custom handle with rounded edges

Question for stringers like @Geoff: Can a freshly strung racket retain the deformation of the frame that he is talking about (shorter + wider) after 5 years of no use?

If yes, it is definitely stock + what I said.

If not, it is a custom mold with a different head shape.

A lot hinges on this.
A frame generally would not distort over time if strung. One observation that has been pointed out to me by others on the TT community is that Roger has his butt caps upside down in comparison to a stock frame. I have never heard why. Also I have heard from reliable sources that Roger uses Wilson Natural Gut and not Champions Choice. If you have used or strung Champions Choice, the gut included is not the same as Wilson Natural Gut. A lot of these questions are trade secrets that can only by answered by Roger's team. Kind of fun to speculate.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
it's close enough---again, refer to the fundamental delusion about this kind of "pro-stock" obsession: his game would be indistinguishable playing with the stock as would yours playing with his customized racquet.
One more guy who feels compelled to post in a Pro Rackets thread to point out that it is the player, not the racket.

Why not simply ignore the thread instead of being condescending?
 

Geoff

Hall of Fame
So if the head is not deformed but is actually shorter and wider, it totally contradicts those who said that it is a stock frame.
@PeterFig who designed the graphics for the RF97 and other Wilson frames has confirmed that Roger Federer uses the stock Wilson Pro Staff RF97 Autograph with grip modifications from @RJYU of Priority One. I have had the pleasure of meeting @PeterFig and you could not ask for a more sincere person. Also Priority One has posted on their Twitter accounts showing Roger's racquets with freshly produced handles and lead under the bumper (I believe that @RJYU has even written on the posts something to the effect of just finishing the work. In. my opinion, Roger Federer's racquets are not hard to distinguish!). The public asked for a pro stock frame and Wilson has delivered. It is entertaining to debate and speculate about equipment and that is why we frequent this discussion board.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
@PeterFig who designed the graphics for the RF97 and other Wilson frames has confirmed that Roger Federer uses the stock Wilson Pro Staff RF97 Autograph with grip modifications from @RJYU of Priority One. I have had the pleasure of meeting @PeterFig and you could not ask for a more sincere person. Also Priority One has posted on their Twitter accounts showing Roger's racquets with freshly produced handles and lead under the bumper (I believe that @RJYU has even written on the posts something to the effect of just finishing the work. In. my opinion, Roger Federer's racquets are not hard to distinguish!). The public asked for a pro stock frame and Wilson has delivered. It is entertaining to debate and speculate about equipment and that is why we frequent this discussion board.
I was just going by your statement that the deformation is unlikely.

How do you reconcile that?

Unless you do not agree with the video.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
So if the head is not deformed but is actually shorter and wider, it totally contradicts those who said that it is a stock frame.
The statement is incorrect.
I have NOVAKs personal that I put next to a retail 27” frame and it looks like NOVAKs frame is cut to a standard length.
However, when I cut the string job (apparently has been strung with gut in the mains for a long time) the head snapped back to its true shape and the frame is indeed 689mm, 5mm extended, as expected.

Yes, soft frames can deform with gut in the mains for too long.

did anyone measure the flex of that Roger’s frame to claim it is the retail stick for sure??
 

McEncock

Semi-Pro
It's very easy to understand that it's not a retail frame :

Retail = 342 SW
RF pro stock = 345 SW with 3g at 12 o'clock

If you add 3g to the retail stick you'll have aprox 342 + 3g x 3swpoints = 351 SW stick

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a 345 SW RF pro staff with 3g at noon.

It's obvious to anyone who has a slight stringing experience that the gut not losing tenision + the fact that it is generaly strung at higher tension than the cross, will deform the stick.


PS : We need the flex and a REAL look at the handle
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
It's very easy to understand that it's not a retail frame :

Retail = 342 SW
RF pro stock = 345 SW with 3g at 12 o'clock

If you add 3g to the retail stick you'll have aprox 342 + 3g x 3swpoints = 351 SW stick

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a 345 SW RF pro staff with 3g at noon.

It's obvious to anyone who has a slight stringing experience that the gut not losing tenision + the fact that it is generaly strung at higher tension than the cross, will deform the stick.


PS : We need the flex and a REAL look at the handle
It's NOT impossible. Fed could have asked for specific specs and had them handpicked from the production facility, not unlike a matching service, then have those frames sent off to his customization guy. It is well known that Wilson racquets have a relatively large quality variance. To suggest that it's impossible for a player to request racquets with X weight, Y balance and Z SW, or even flex is incorrect.
 

lidoazndiabloboi

Hall of Fame
It's very easy to understand that it's not a retail frame :

Retail = 342 SW
RF pro stock = 345 SW with 3g at 12 o'clock

If you add 3g to the retail stick you'll have aprox 342 + 3g x 3swpoints = 351 SW stick

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a 345 SW RF pro staff with 3g at noon.

It's obvious to anyone who has a slight stringing experience that the gut not losing tenision + the fact that it is generaly strung at higher tension than the cross, will deform the stick.


PS : We need the flex and a REAL look at the handle
Retail frames have a huge weight and balance variance.
Here are 3 of my friends unstrung RF97s, all stock.
#1 - 342.5g 30.4cm SW298
#2 - 340.5g 31.1cm SW308
#3 - 346g 31.0cm SW317

Just buy looking at this, you can get a variety of different end specs after customizing.
I too believe Fed's RF is pro stock, as I do have 2 pro stock RFs used by Grigor Dimitrov. The beam and velvet paint feels much different than the retail.
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
@zipplock
Is'nt a retail based frame that you can chose different flex and weight basically a pro stock?
Not retail "based", just plain old retail. Think of it this way. Pro golfers generally don't have clubs custom made as "one-offs". That is very rare and reserved for a select few, and some of the top golfers in the world don't use that method. They know what specs they like and the sponsor "hand selects" the desired components from regular production runs to guarantee exact desired specs, then builds the club's up from there. This is no different than "hand picking" specs of a racquet from a batch of racquets, then sending them off to be customized. Now I don't know if this is what Fed has done, but to say it's impossible is not correct.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Not retail "based", just plain old retail. Think of it this way. Pro golfers generally don't have clubs custom made as "one-offs". That is very rare and reserved for a select few, and some of the top golfers in the world don't use that method. They know what specs they like and the sponsor "hand selects" the desired components from regular production runs to guarantee exact desired specs, then builds the club's up from there. This is no different than "hand picking" specs of a racquet from a batch of racquets, then sending them off to be customized. Now I don't know if this is what Fed has done, but to say it's impossible is not correct.
I still do not understand why no one measured the FLEX on these actual frames obtained and a few that were eager to do so do not speak about it any more...
 

lelopez

Semi-Pro
I still do not understand why no one measured the FLEX on these actual frames obtained and a few that were eager to do so do not speak about it any more...
Not every shop or RDC out there has the capability to do so. I was at the USTA center in Orlando in the fall and was disappointed to find out that their Racquet Bar's RDC could not measure flex. I was dealing with RP's son as well. Their RDC looked exactly like the one in the video a few posts back. Now they probably have it available in the player development center building, but not available to the general public.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
The statement is incorrect.
I have NOVAKs personal that I put next to a retail 27” frame and it looks like NOVAKs frame is cut to a standard length.
However, when I cut the string job (apparently has been strung with gut in the mains for a long time) the head snapped back to its true shape and the frame is indeed 689mm, 5mm extended, as expected.

Yes, soft frames can deform with gut in the mains for too long.

did anyone measure the flex of that Roger’s frame to claim it is the retail stick for sure??
How is my statement incorrect? Did you miss the "if it is not deformed" part?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
It's very easy to understand that it's not a retail frame :

Retail = 342 SW
RF pro stock = 345 SW with 3g at 12 o'clock

If you add 3g to the retail stick you'll have aprox 342 + 3g x 3swpoints = 351 SW stick

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a 345 SW RF pro staff with 3g at noon.

It's obvious to anyone who has a slight stringing experience that the gut not losing tenision + the fact that it is generaly strung at higher tension than the cross, will deform the stick.


PS : We need the flex and a REAL look at the handle
Another stringer here did not agree with you. I am not commenting, just mentioning.

BTW, your retail comparison is not compelling because the stock was randomly picked and could have tolerance plus the different string weight and handle

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McEncock

Semi-Pro
True for the random stock. But for the strings, they are what there is in RF racquet but reversed. Not much of a difference?..
Any racquet I've strung deform even at 35lbs tension. Imagine at RF tension (57lbs aprox)...
 

McEncock

Semi-Pro
@dr325i
Soft OR stiff frame deform when strung instantly ; it's not a matter of time IMO!
I've bought many pt10, and some of them stood strung with gut for decades ; when I snapped the string, the head shape when back to the normal instantly. I believe they lose reactivity (in the hoop) because the material lose its elasticity (even if the RDC flex always shows 61 for all my pt10)
But the shape never change unstrung
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
@dr325i
Soft OR stiff frame deform when strung instantly ; it's not a matter of time IMO!
I've bought many pt10, and some of them stood strung with gut for decades ; when I snapped the string, the head shape when back to the normal instantly. I believe they lose reactivity (in the hoop) because the material lose its elasticity (even if the RDC flex always shows 61 for all my pt10)
But the shape never change unstrung
If it did, you'll get a Nobel for discovering a novel material

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Summary:

Roger's racket = stock +

  1. 3 grams of lead from 11 to 1 (my approximation)
  2. String savers
  3. Power pads
  4. Custom handle with rounded edges

Question for stringers like @Geoff: Can a freshly strung racket retain the deformation of the frame that he is talking about (shorter + wider) after 5 years of no use?

If yes, it is definitely stock + what I said.

If not, it is a custom mold with a different head shape.

A lot hinges on this.
Actually the longer it sits the more deformed it would be until cutting out the strings. Poly loses tension much faster than gut so the tension differential would increase over time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It's very easy to understand that it's not a retail frame :

Retail = 342 SW
RF pro stock = 345 SW with 3g at 12 o'clock

If you add 3g to the retail stick you'll have aprox 342 + 3g x 3swpoints = 351 SW stick

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a 345 SW RF pro staff with 3g at noon.

It's obvious to anyone who has a slight stringing experience that the gut not losing tenision + the fact that it is generaly strung at higher tension than the cross, will deform the stick.


PS : We need the flex and a REAL look at the handle
The average retail RF97 swingweight is 335, so 3g at 12 would add around 10kgcm^2. Agreed that it would have been nice to get the flex and see how the handle was made, but I get the owner not wanting to tank the racquet’s value and P1 for keeping their trade secrets.

From personal experience putting a new handle and 3g of lead at 12 on a retail RF97, I can tell you it completely changes the feel of the racquet. I don’t know why Wilson insists on using metal shanks under the foamed grip on retail racquets to control weight and balance, the feel is much harsher than when silicone is injected. I’m not sure if it is because of the change in material or the weight placement being moved down from the middle of the handle to the butcap.


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jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Actually the longer it sits the more deformed it would be until cutting out the strings. Poly loses tension much faster than gut so the tension differential would increase over time.


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Been considering this myself; used to advise people in store about possible long term effects of hybrid restrings because of this also.
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
The average retail RF97 swingweight is 335, so 3g at 12 would add around 10kgcm^2. Agreed that it would have been nice to get the flex and see how the handle was made, but I get the owner not wanting to tank the racquet’s value and P1 for keeping their trade secrets.

From personal experience putting a new handle and 3g of lead at 12 on a retail RF97, I can tell you it completely changes the feel of the racquet. I don’t know why Wilson insists on using metal shanks under the foamed grip on retail racquets to control weight and balance, the feel is much harsher than when silicone is injected. I’m not sure if it is because of the change in material or the weight placement being moved down from the middle of the handle to the butcap.


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Presumably cheaper?
 

McEncock

Semi-Pro
If it did, you'll get a Nobel for discovering a novel material

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
I appreciate your irony xD

Look, that's the magic of the graphite : I've been in Bass Fishing business and design for years. Not only once, but many times I've abandonned a fishing pole (They are mostly nowadays made of Carbon fiber or graphite/fiberglass composite) layed on a wall with the tip bent for YEARS ; and they never EVER deformed!! That sounds crazy, I know. On the other hand, the rods that have had this treatment lost their "energy return" and became noodles...
 
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