Federer 19 Titles on Grass vs. Nadal 19 Titles on Hard Court

T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
It's amazing that Federer has won the same amount of single titles on grass as Nadal on hard court. Grass season only lasted 1 month and the players only participated 2 events per year, and there's no MS1000 either. OTOH, most tournaments are on hard court that spread across the world and are available throughout the year. Hard court is the common surface that all players play on the most from every level(ATP250/500/1000, WTF, Slams).



Breakdown Federer's 19 grass titles and Nadal 19 hard court titles:

Number of slams
Federer - 8(Wimbledon)
Nadal - 4(3 USO, AO)

ATP250/500/1000
Federer - 11
Nadal - 14

Olympics
Nadal - 1
Federer - 0

Record in the finals
Federer - 19-7(73%)
Nadal - 19-26(42%)
 
Interesting stat. Wouldn't surprise me if Federer finishes ahead given Nadal's record on hard courts the past 18 months. Only just occurred to me that Djokovic has won as many Wimbledon titles as Nadal has at the two HC majors. Federer's won Wimbledon more times than Nadal has at the three non clay majors combined. :eek:
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Interesting stat. Wouldn't surprise me if Federer finishes ahead given Nadal's record on hard courts the past 18 months. Only just occurred to me that Djokovic has won as many Wimbledon titles as Nadal has at the two HC majors. Federer's won Wimbledon more times than Nadal has at the three non clay majors combined. :eek:
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I feel like this depends on Nadal. Fed might have another couple of Halle titles and maybe 1 Wimbledon but Nadal could win 3 more HC titles easily. On the other hand he could totally bomb out. I feel like Fed has a limit but Nadal could either do well or badly
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Interesting stat. Wouldn't surprise me if Federer finishes ahead given Nadal's record on hard courts the past 18 months. Only just occurred to me that Djokovic has won as many Wimbledon titles as Nadal has at the two HC majors. Federer's won Wimbledon more times than Nadal has at the three non clay majors combined. :eek:
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That's another reason why people considered Nadal as a clay goat because the vast majority of his achievements are on clay.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Interesting stat. Wouldn't surprise me if Federer finishes ahead given Nadal's record on hard courts the past 18 months. Only just occurred to me that Djokovic has won as many Wimbledon titles as Nadal has at the two HC majors. Federer's won Wimbledon more times than Nadal has at the three non clay majors combined. :eek:
Click to expand...

There will ways be some weird statistics like that. Nadal has more RGs than Novak has Hard court and clay Slams combined for instance.
 
Another interesting stat is that Nadal won 1 more RG than Federer, hard courts goat, won on two hard court slams combined, and Fed had 5 extra years age wise to accomplish that...

Should I start thread about that amazing stat, which will be deleted in few hours, or just tobleave it here?
 
beard said:
Another interesting stat is that Nadal won 2 more RG than Federer, hard courts goat, won on two hard court slams combined, and Fed had 5 extra years age wise to accomplish that...

Should I start thread about that amazing stat, which will be deleted in few hours, or just tobleave it here?
Click to expand...
One more
 
On one hand its remarkable but in the other hand there is much stronger competition on HC than grass or clay.

Though if there was let's say a HC 500 leading up to the USO and no masters and Nadal entered that every year, I still dont feel he'd win it 10 times. We know Fed is a grass GOAT. It's hard to draw parallels though
 
Im(moral) Winner said:
This year:
2 slams
1 YEC
6 Masters
5/8 ATP500s (a player can only play 5 since 3 are concurrent)
9/20 ATP250s (same as above including 500s in the same week)
So a player can play 23 tournaments in a year.
Click to expand...

Good post.

That's A LOT of opportunities for a player win to on hard court, unlike grass when the players either play Halle or Queen and Wimbledon in a year.
 
Im(moral) Winner said:
This year:
2 slams
1 YEC
6 Masters
5/8 ATP500s (a player can only play 5 since 3 are concurrent)
9/20 ATP250s (same as above including 500s in the same week)
So a player can play 23 tournaments in a year.
Click to expand...

23 hard court events a year since 2005 is ~304 events, so nadal wins hard court events at a rate of 1 in 16
3 grass court events a year since 1999 is ~57 events, so Fed wins grass court events at a rate of 1 in 3
 
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It's really a crazy stat if you think about it. 6 or 7 times the chances to win tournies on hard for this "2 slams on every surface" warrior, and he ends up with 19. 3 Beijing's, 4 Canada's, Doha & Dubai among those 19,along with US Open 2017. I'd say he has vultured plenty of them.
 
Tenez! said:
Good fast research, kudos.
Can you confirm that it's 3 on grass? Given than nobody can make Wimbledon-Newport.
And do you know on clay?


Palsambleu.
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Technically you could play 5 grass tournaments, Newport is right after Wimbledon, and Antalya/Eastbourne right before. But it'd be insane to do that kind of schedule. Plus the schedule changed a few years ago, used to be fewer weeks between RG and Wim.

Clay - it's tricky. If you play the traditional schedule, it's MC to RG with Barcelona, Madrid, Rome and a bunch of 250 weeks. But there's also the South American clay swing (Rio, Argentina, previously Acapulco) and the post Wim European clay (Berlin, Sweden, Switzerland etc). So a clay specialist can find a lot of opportunities to boost rankings.
 
Towser83 said:
On one hand its remarkable but in the other hand there is much stronger competition on HC than grass or clay.

Though if there was let's say a HC 500 leading up to the USO and no masters and Nadal entered that every year, I still dont feel he'd win it 10 times. We know Fed is a grass GOAT. It's hard to draw parallels though
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Federer is the 'new grass' GOAT. he is not the grass GOAT, old grass GOAT is either Sampras or Borg...
 
beard said:
Another interesting stat is that Nadal won 1 more RG than Federer, hard courts goat, won on two hard court slams combined, and Fed had 5 extra years age wise to accomplish that...

Should I start thread about that amazing stat, which will be deleted in few hours, or just tobleave it here?
Click to expand...
Why is it supposed to bother people? Clay is Nadal’s specialty. No Fed fans are disputing that.
 
Nadal is mediocre at best on hard, so it's not surprising that it's taken him 146 tournaments (by my calculation) to amass the same number as the king of grass.
And who gives a hoot about Federer winning more of these lower-tier tournaments, let's not forget Federer has won THE MOST prestigious tournament in tennis more times than anybody in the history of mankind.
 
VaporDude95 said:
like Nadal does at the French Open and Barcelona?

Interesting that vulturing is “warrior-like” when Nadal does it but it’s despicable when Fed or Djokovic does it lol
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Yes dude... Winning a major 12 times which has also the top players participating is equal to winning a 500 tournament like Halle with hardly any top players. Unbelievable fed fan logic
 
Sport said:
True. Nadal did not have the luxury of playing an ATP 500 with no strong opposition on hard for so many years.
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That is not true. Nadal participated many times in smaller HC events (Doha, Dubai, Rotterdam, Acapulco since it reverted to HC, Basel, Tokyo, Chennai). The opposition in those was as strong or worse than that for Federer.

8-)
 
VaporDude95 said:
You have no idea how statistics work.

Using percentages doesn’t take away from the fact that Nadal has double the chance to have success on his worst surface than Federer does.
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OP is wrong too then. Can't compare grass and hard because different distribution.
 
To be fair to Nadal, he hasn't prioritised 250s and 500s on hard courts. Of his 19 titles, only 5 are 250s or 500s. 11 of Federer's grass titles are 250s or 500s

Nadal has still managed to win as many US opens as Lendl and Djokovic and an Australian open to boot, in spite of competing against the 2 greatest hard court players ever. Not bad for a so-called clay court specialist.

That said, totally incredible what Federer has achieved on grass! 19 titles is nearly double as many as Sampras won on the surface (10). And he may well actually double it this year at Wimbledon
 
Lew II said:
Slams won on their worst surface:

Nadal (hard) 4/28 (14.8%)
Federer (clay) 1/18 (5.5%)
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Lew, I actually think this is a fair stat re success on different surfaces for slams although it only proves what we already know, that Nadal has dominated RG as no other player ever has except for Borg (though for a shorter career.)
 
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