VaporDude95
Banned
Yes you can. It shows that irrespective of the lesser representation of the grass Federer achieved the same result as Nadal as a number of titles.
Exactly lol
Federer 19 Titles on Grass vs. Nadal 19 Titles on Hard Court
- Thread starter TMF
- Start date
Exactly lol
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
1 tournament only for Federer on grass compared to 30 thousand for Nadal including tournaments like Doha, Acapulco, Beijing, Japan LMAO
There are a million more tournaments on HC compared to grass, there's zero excuse for Rafael I-only-like-Barcelona-iz-gon-be-bery-tough Nadal. Besides, when was the last time (if ever) when the top 10 players in the world were also the best players on grass? Take a guy like Tsonga who was close to beating Federer in Halle in the 2ND ROUND. You really think Fognini, Anderson or Nishikori or Nadal himself LMAO would be tougher for Fed on grass? They are all top 10 players.
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robthai
Hall of Fame
Thats because there are no masters 1000 tournaments on grass. Lets not be fair to Nadal when he can't win the year end championships despite being a top 10 player since 2005.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Benjamin Rio
Professional
You mean the FO?
Towny
Hall of Fame
Undoubtedly, the missing YEC is the most glaring omission in Nadal's resumé. That one can't simply be explained by Federer and Djokovic
Tennis_Hands
Banned
No one ever said that. The people were saying that it is the most important thing. Also, you talking about obsessions about "distribution" is absolutely hilarious.
VaporDude95
Banned
It’s not. The distribution has been part of the discussion for years.
Humablito can’t even defend a title off clay. He’s much further away from GOAT than you’re suggesting.
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VaporDude95
Banned
It can be explained by Nadal having a tough draw lol
He only wins off clay when he gets easy draws. There are no easy draws at the WTF.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Humbalito was the youngest player to complete the career grand slam in the Open Era, with a big margin of 4-5 years over the others.
That's how good he is on all surfaces.
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
There is a vocal minority circling the wagons because Nadal is getting a bit too "close for comfort" in the major tally.
The greater majority of Federer fans on here are fine, but there is a lunatic fringe from every supporter group that needs to be put "on iggy" or placated.
MajesticTennisManiac
Rookie
Not much different from dull fanboys like you who like "federer dopes" posts
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Notice I said "a" grass GOAT, not "the" grass GOAT. the term GOAT is silly anyway, there isnt a goat and never will be, you cannot compare eras. For me overall Fed is one of the best of all time but I cannot pick one player who is the absolute best
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Distribution is important in Nadal's case. Nadal has never really dominated the tour or not the way Fed and Novak have. He's got so much GS because he's been winning one event a year since 2005. On the other hand Fed and Novak have utterly dominated competition in 2004 2005 2006 2007 2011 and 2015.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
So? Federer and Djokovic never dominated a Slam like Nadal did.
Eeach of them did something that others didn't do.
Hawaiian grip
Professional
„Mediocre at best on hard“=4 GS on hard (plus 5 finals) and 9 HC M1000 (plus finals).
Please folks, respect yourselves.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Benjamin Rio
Professional
I mean Fed was losing to Nadal on clay. The same could be said of Novak. Nadal was losing to Darcis WC Kyrgios Rosol Fognini Verdasco Pouille on the other surfaces.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
That means that Nadal consistently beat two GOAT candidates at RG. Isn't that great?
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Yes, confirms that he's a one trick pony that he can only pull it off in one arena and then chickens out in the other 3.
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Benjamin Rio
Professional
Of course ut's great. Winning 12 FO is outstanding. But does it make you Goat? Tennis didn't start in 2005 with Rafael Nadal and tennis is not only about clay and FO.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol, I see some users are really in big panic since Nadal won his 18th slam, so they are trying to bring him down in every possible way. How about the next stat: if we remove 250 tournaments (which makes much more sense than removing clay) then Federer has just 4 more titles than Nadal. Given their age difference that isn't much.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic also lost in RG to Kohlschreiber, Melzer, old Federer, Wawrinka, Cecchinato, Thiem. To say he only lost to Nadal is not true at all.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Fake news as usual coming from not surprising at all.
Who did Fed lost to in 2005 2006 2007 2008 2011 after beating everyone in the field?
Who did Nadal lost to at the AO 2005 2007 2008 2010 2011 2012 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019? Hewitt Gonzalez Tsonga Ferrer Murray Novak Wawrinka Berdych Verdaco Federer Cilic Novak
Who did Nadal lost to at the Wimbledon 2006 2007 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2017 2018: Fed Novak Rosol Darcis Brown Muller
Who did Nadal lost to at the Us open 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2011 2015 2016 2018? Blake Ferrer Youznhy Murray Novak Fognini ouille Del poltro
And i won't even mention WTF.....many RR with a couple of SF and F.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol. Nadal doesn't even play WTF most of the time. In this decade he only played it in 2011, 2013 and 2015, unless you really want to count that one match in 2017. For sure he cares about it much less than Federer and Djokovic fans want to believe he does.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
"For sure he cares about it much less than Federer and Djokovic fans want to believe he does" He simply can't win it. At least Fed and Novak were able to win the FO.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Right, because they play the FO every year. Also, Federer had to win until somebody will take Nadal out for him. Djokovic is even worse-he had to wait until Nadal will reach the lowest point of his career AND until somebody will take out Wawrinka for him."For sure he cares about it much less than Federer and Djokovic fans want to believe he does" He simply can't win it. At least Fed and Novak were able to win the FO.
How can Nadal win WTF if he plays it like 3 times in 8 years?
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Right, because they play the FO every year. Also, Federer had to win until somebody will take Nadal out for him. Djokovic is even worse-he had to wait until Nadal will reach the lowest point of his career AND until somebody will take out Wawrinka for him.
How can Nadal win WTF if he plays it like 3 times in 8 years?
He can't win it. He's tried many times. 8 times 2 finals 3 SF and 3 RR
On the other hand Fed has won the event 6 times and Novak 5.StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Because they are better players indoors. Nadal is better than them on clay and the difference in numbers is much bigger. And that's when they play on clay every year. Nadal hardly plays in WTF.He can't win it. He's tried many times. 8 times 2 finals 3 SF and 3 RR
Benjamin Rio
Professional
He hardly plays it because he can not win it. He's won 16 matches at the WTF and lost 13....55% matches won. Just terrible. The main reason is he can't avoid the 8 best players not on clay....
Of course everyone knows than Nadal is the better player on clay.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
On indoor hardcourt.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
indoor hardcourt doesn't count? Or in order to be GOAT you only need to play on clay?
By the way Fed has won 80% of his matches at he FO....
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Where did I say it doesn't count? You said "outside of clay", I corrected you-WTF is played on a specific surface which is indoor hardcourt. Nadal had some very impressive wins on outdoor hardcourt and grass.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
It is a slow indoor hardcourt....
aman92
Legend
It shows feck all... See the amount of competition on hard compared to grass. Halle is a tournament where no top 10 player barring Fed shows up, no hard court tourney has that kind of representation. Then consider the fact that grass is Fed's best surface and hard isn't Nadal's and all arguments fall flat on the faceYes you can. It shows that irrespective of the lesser representation of the grass Federer achieved the same result as Nadal as a number of titles.
Nadal 3 USO Federer 0 USO peak v peak.Interesting stat. Wouldn't surprise me if Federer finishes ahead given Nadal's record on hard courts the past 18 months. Only just occurred to me that Djokovic has won as many Wimbledon titles as Nadal has at the two HC majors. Federer's won Wimbledon more times than Nadal has at the three non clay majors combined.
Nadal 2-1 Djokovic at US Open.
Nadal only player Multiple majors Multiple Surfaces.
It is up to Djokovic and Federer in particular to step up on clay.
Federer is a master at winning events like halle where Nadal and Djokovic are not present, it sort encapsulates his career..dominant when Nadal and Djokovic not around.
Then when he had ATGs to deal with, Wimbledon wins dried up, but Halle became a big deal for his fans.
This thread more proof why Federer is an indoor specialist in reality compared to the all court greatness of his two nemesis.
No, this thread is great as the contradiction in it is proof Nadal is GOAT. Nadal has multiple majors on all surfaces...this is what irks Federer fans into these threads. lol.
Halle was a 250 event for most of the time..Nadal doesn't inflate his resume with meaningless events.Yes you can. It shows that irrespective of the lesser representation of the grass Federer achieved the same result as Nadal as a number of titles.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Just clay...
Tenez!
Professional
As far as I can find (it's a little tedious), nobody has ever played the 5 in sequence.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's never happened, given the low ranking of those going to Newport vs. the higher ranking of those going to Halle/Queen's.
Welcome to my ignore list, troll.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
. . Welcome TMF https://www.loc.gov/law/help/citizenship-pathways/china.php
. .TMF fall down and go 'boom'
Tennis_Hands
Banned
To people that know "feck all" it shows "feck all"
If you haven't noticed the different dynamic of the grass court season due to its shortness compared to everything else, I am not going to start pointing at the obvious just for you now.
That is factually incorrect.
They don't. Also, Nadal fans like to switch between which one is Fed's best surface, depending on the argument. Now grass is Fed's best surface, but when Nadal is compared in the Majors with the other two of the big three, suddenly HC is one surface. Oh, you should make up your mind, but maybe not here. Here there are people reading what you write ....
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Federer as at his leak at us open 10 13 and 17? u are funny.
Novak was at his best in 10 and 13? Double standards. If that's the case Nadal was at his absolute best when he lost at the FO in 15.
Nadal only player not to have won a WTF only winning 56% of his matches against the top 8 players on indoor hard court.
Druss
Hall of Fame
Yes but Federer did not have much choice with the grass tournaments, apart from Wimby they were all 250's, until not long ago Halle was upgraded to a 500. OTOH Nadal has heaps of Masters 1000s to chose from on HC.
Towny
Hall of Fame
Yes I expect Federer would have won many masters 1000 on grass were they available. What I'm saying is that as it stands, their 19 titles each are not equivalent.
Undoubtedly Nadal has underperformed on hard court outside of slams. But at slams? 4 slam victories with 5 additional finals appearances. 4 of those were losses to Djokovic or Federer. Not a top tier showing but not exactly terrible either.
I think that him missing the YEC is the biggest omission for me. He really should have won it or at least made more than 2 finals.
There are no indoor hard courts..if you had playd the game you would know the difference, besides indoor tennis is irrelevant as no big events indoors.
Don't be salty, fact is Nadal has dominated clay and north American hard courts a fact which destroys the clay court specialist tag and kills Federer fans.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
In 2010 Fed was not playing great neither Novak.
In 2013 was Federer's worse season.
In 2017 No Novak and Fed was injured.
North America HC: Fed 5 US open 5 IW 4 Miami 2 Canada 7 Cincinnati: 23 titles
Nadal 3 Us open 3 IW 0 miami 4 Canada 1 Cincinnati: 11 titles
Novak 2 Us open 5 IW 6 miami 1 Cincinnati 4 Canada: 18
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