Federer(2004-2007) v Federer(2013-2016) Stats

[BrokenGears]

I'm comparing Peakerer and Old Federer.

Note, I ended 2016 at July 26 as Federer took the year off from there. Lemme know if you think that was a mistake or I should have grouped years differently.

Peakerer​

Serve
Ace % 9.5%
Double Fault % 2.0%
1st Serve % 62.3%
1st Serve Won % 77.1%
2nd Serve Won % 58.6%
Break Points Saved % 68.0%
Service Points Won % 70.1%
Service Games Won % 90.0%
Return
Ace Against % 4.7%
Double Fault Against % 3.4%
1st Srv. Return Won % 34.6%
2nd Srv. Return Won % 52.6%
Break Points Won % 42.4%
Return Points Won % 41.5%
Return Games Won % 30.4%
Total
Points Dominance 1.39
Games Dominance 3.04
Break Points Ratio 1.32
Total Points Won % 55.3%
Games Won % 60.8%
Sets Won % 84.5%
Matches Won % 92.9%
Match Time 1:41

Old Federer​

Serve
Ace % 10.2%
Double Fault % 2.2%
1st Serve % 63.4%
1st Serve Won % 78.6%
2nd Serve Won % 56.7%
Break Points Saved % 67.6%
Service Points Won % 70.6%
Service Games Won % 89.9%
Return
Ace Against % 6.7%
Double Fault Against % 3.4%
1st Srv. Return Won % 32.4%
2nd Srv. Return Won % 50.7%
Break Points Won % 39.8%
Return Points Won % 39.6%
Return Games Won % 26.0%
Total
Points Dominance 1.35
Games Dominance 2.57
Break Points Ratio 1.23
Total Points Won % 54.4%
Games Won % 58.3%
Sets Won % 75.5%
Matches Won % 81.1%
Match Time 1:25

Formulate your own opinions as I do not wish to anger any Fed fans.

Edit: WTF they banned the use of the word o l d e r e r LMAO

 

[wangs78]

It’s pretty clear. Fed was a better player back in the old days. His first serve stats are very similar but you can see that on the second serve and on the return he is worse. Clear sign that his ground game has weakened.

 

[smoledman]

Huge drop in return games won and set % won. Doh, he got old.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

he got old.

slams won at 27-32

federer 5
nadal 6
djokovic 8 (one more year left)

 

[tennisfan2015]

Weak era!

 

[smoledman]

slams won at 27-32:

federer 5
nadal 6
djokovic 8 (one more year left)

What's your point? Fed won 15 slams before turning 28. Of course he was not going to have the same motivation going forward to rack them up at the same rate after that. Nadal & Djokovic have always been chasing.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

What's your point? Fed won 15 slams before turning 28. Of course he was not going to have the same motivation going forward to rack them up at the same rate after that. Nadal & Djokovic have always been chasing.

Easier to have motivation with no ATG opponents around.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

slams won at 27-35:

federer 5
nadal 6 (three more years left)
djokovic 8 (four more years left)

 

[smoledman]

Easier to have motivation with no ATG opponents around.

Fed was more motivated back in 2003-2009 but somehow lost motivation afterwards? You have some evidence for that, because watching his interviews from 2010-present he seems quite unhappy after GS losses. Especially 2011 AO, 2011 USO, 2014 Wimbledon. Very angry...

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Fed was more motivated back in 2003-2009 but somehow lost motivation afterwards? You have some evidence for that, because watching his interviews from 2010-present he seems quite unhappy after GS losses. Especially 2011 AO, 2011 USO, 2014 Wimbledon. Very angry...

You wrote he lost motivation.

 

[smoledman]

You wrote he lost motivation.

Because he beat Sampras' record. Once you climbed to the top of Mt. Everest, it's difficult to find motivation to do it again.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Because he beat Sampras' record. Once you climbed to the top of Mt. Everest, it's difficult to find motivation to do it again.

You wrote he didn't lose motivation, in your last post.

 

[smoledman]

Stop putting words in my mouth. The bottom line is Fed broke the record in 2009, he still won #16 shortly after. Then Djokovic went into his 'insane' mode in 2011 which made things very difficult for Fed. We all know the history after that. I fail to see the point of continuing this.

 

[tennisaddict]

If Fed had a new target to reach after 2010, he would have won more majors between 30-35. He finished his tasks by the time he was 28.

Nadal and Djoker are lucky that they have a target all through their career , so it is easy to keep the motivation going.

 

[smoledman]

If Fed had a new target to reach after 2010, he would have won more majors between 30-35. He finished his tasks by the time he was 28.

Nadal and Djoker are lucky that they have a target all through their career , so it is easy to keep the motivation going.

Yeah. It's like winning the Nobel Prize in Physics at 30. Where do you go from there?

 

[Deleted member 757377]

If Fed had a new target to reach after 2010, he would have won more majors between 30-35. He finished his tasks by the time he was 28.

Nadal and Djoker are lucky that they have a target all through their career , so it is easy to keep the motivation going.

yeah after beating roddick and baghdatis what else can you fight for?

 

[smoledman]

Ignore this guy, he's just trying to get a rise of of Fed fans.

 

[ABCD]

How some people can question a player self-assessment is beyond me? Federer clearly said in 2015 that he played better than ever and numbers also confirm that.

 

[smoledman]

How some people can question a player self-assessment is beyond me? Federer clearly said in 2015 that he played better than ever and numbers also confirm that.

He's regularly been called delusional on this forum. Especially after 2015 losses to Djokovic!

 

[True Fanerer]

.

 

[True Fanerer]

yeah after beating roddick and baghdatis what else can you fight for?

You need to worry about Djoko draw in Shanghai. Four guys in his path that he lost his last match to LMAO.

 

[ABCD]

He's regularly been called delusional on this forum. Especially after 2015 losses to Djokovic!

Not just delusional, but also corrupt. He was called many names by his "fans" for this statement.

 

[Raining hopes]

I will do you better.

See sir we are not Asylum inmates who drool over the past without any reason .
I am tired of people who may not have even an ounce of Idea how Federer at his best played like finding some useless numbers.H e never walked on water and was not invincible but he was atleast in the same level as Peak Rafole.

Actually take time and watch these matches.

I will choose the matches where he lost or was strecthed to limits trying to put in as much similarity as possible:

Federer Vs Djokovic 2008, 2011 USO and Federer vs Djokovic 2015 USO

Federer vs Nadal 2006 Rome and Federer vs Nadal Rome 2013

Federer vs Safin AO 2005 and Federer vs Wawrinka AO 2017

Federer vs Nadal 2008 WB and Federer vs Djokovic 2015 WB

Federer vs Nadal 2007 WB F and Federer vs Djokovic 2014 finals


Federer vs Djokovic YEC 2012 and against Djokovic in 2015.

Federer vs Murray 2010 AO F and Federer vs Murray 2013 AO SF.



Now sir @BrokenGears @Lew gears watch these matches and convince me that

1.Federer had as good movement
2.Forehand
3. Defence
4. Baseline strength
5.Ability to hit through the court
6. Explosiveness
7.Speed and court coverage
8. Flamboyance and shot making flair.

in later year matches.


E.t.c in 2013 -2017


See stats are damn useless, watch the matched and please somehow convince me that

Blasting unreturnable Forehands and going toe to toe with Peak baseline Djokovic in 2011 USO is somehow worse than being embarrassed for net rushes at 2015 USO F.


Going to absolute limit with Nadal at his best defensive movement in 2006 Rome with his greatest clay ball striking performance ever is worse than not winning 5 games against returning 2013 Nadal.


Killing Roddick and breaking Murray's will in 2007,2010 F is somehow worse than losing in 5 and getting outplayed by Murray.

 

[Raining hopes]

Double.These forums server idolize 2010 Djokovic too much.

 

[KINGROGER]

Easier to have motivation with no ATG opponents around.

Yeah. Like Djokovic since 2014 having 0 prime ATG for 10 straight slams.

 

[KINGROGER]

slams won at 27-35:

federer 5
nadal 6 (three more years left)
djokovic 8 (four more years left)

Slams won age 18-32:

Fedal: 17
Djokovic: 14

 

[Jonas78]

slams won at 27-32

federer 5
nadal 6
djokovic 8 (one more year left)

27-32?!? Out picking cherries again?

 

[KINGROGER]

yeah after beating roddick and baghdatis what else can you fight for?

Yeah. After beating Murray and grandpa Federer, what else can you fight for? Explains Nole’s 2017AO-2018AO period.

 

[tennisaddict]

yeah after beating roddick and baghdatis what else can you fight for?

You mean the guy Djoker has a losing h2h against ? LMFAO

 

[metsman]

amazing federer's numbers did not drop that much against significantly tougher competition

 

[Deleted member 757377]

You mean the guy Djoker has a losing h2h against ? LMFAO

All losses are before 2011. This is like blaming Federer for having a negative h2h against Rafter or Kafelnikov, or early Hewitt/Nalbandian.

Roddick would have gone the same way as Tsonga (similar player, similar level): 5-2 before 2011, 1-14 since 2011.

Roddick used to lose 2 matches out of 3 against top-10s, that's how inoffensive he was.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Yeah. After beating Murray and grandpa Federer, what else can you fight for? Explains Nole’s 2017AO-2018AO period.

10-0 streak in slams against the players who dominated right after his downfall seems quite a good achievement to me.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

27-32?!? Out picking cherries again?

Since the 27th birthday season:

federer 0.7 slam won per season
nadal 1
djokovic 1.6

 

[Jonas78]

Dont see why i should get angry about this. Federer played great in 2014-2015, not peak, but great. He just wasnt good enough to beat peak Djokovic in slams.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Dont see why i should get angry about this. Federer played great in 2014-2015, not peak, but great. He just wasnt good enough to beat peak Djokovic in slams.

Wasn't good enough to beat RAFA, Gulbis, Cilic or Seppi either.

 

[Jonas78]

Wasn't good enough to beat RAFA, Gulbis, Cilic or Seppi either.

Of course, Fedr wasnt at his peak. But it was Djokovic alone who made this period look weaker than it was. Federer would probably win W14, W15, USO15 and AO16 if not for Djokovic.

 

[True Fanerer]

All losses are before 2011. This is like blaming Federer for having a negative h2h against Rafter or Kafelnikov, or early Hewitt/Nalbandian.

Roddick would have gone the same way as Tsonga (similar player, similar level): 5-2 before 2011, 1-14 since 2011.

Roddick used to lose 2 matches out of 3 against top-10s, that's how inoffensive he was.

No it's not the same. Djokovic won their first meeting then became a GS champion before they played another match.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

No it's not the same. Djokovic won their first meeting then became a GS champion before they played another match.

It's not THE SAME, but it's quite similar.

 

[Jonas78]

Since the 27th birthday season:

federer 0.7 slam won per season
nadal 1
djokovic 1.6

Djokovic had it tougher early career, Federer late career, most people would agree with me on this. Federer was facing 5-7 year younger Nadal, Djokovic, Delpo, Murray in his late twenties to thirties. Thats totally incomparable to the younger players Nadal/Djokovic faced at the same age.

 

[True Fanerer]

It's not THE SAME, but it's quite similar.

No it's not. The losses Federer had to Rafter and Kafelnikov were a full two years before he won a slam. He won the last 2/3 against Kafelnikov anyway. His h2h vs Hewitt and Nalbandian he turned around. It is NOT the same.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

No it's not. The losses Federer had to Rafter and Kafelnikov were a full two years before he won a slam. He won the last 2/3 against Kafelnikov anyway. His h2h vs Hewitt and Nalbandian he turned around. It is NOT the same.

He met only once Roddick after 2010, he couldn't turn around.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Djokovic had it tougher early career, Federer late career, most people would agree with me on this. Federer was facing 5-7 year younger Nadal, Djokovic, Delpo, Murray in his late twenties to thirties. Thats totally incomparable to the 5-7 year younger players Nadal/Djokovic faced at the same age.

So you do think there can be easier opponents. We're making some steps forward here


Slam finals/semis, yec finals and masters finals played against players who have 75+% of wins in slams:

Djokovic 77 out of 107 (72%)
Federer 60 out of 131 (45.8%)

I hope he will get closer to Federer in this stat.

 

[True Fanerer]

He met only once Roddick after 2010, he couldn't turn around.

You mean Djokovic needed time against a MUG like Roddick to turn it around? You can't be serious. GS champion Djokovic was winning WTF and Masters 1000's and reaching slam finals all throughout but needed more time.

 

[Jonas78]

So you do think there can be easier opponents. We're making some steps forward here


Slam finals/semis, yec finals and masters finals played against players who have 75+% of wins in slams:

Djokovic 77 out of 107 (72%)
Federer 60 out of 131 (45.8%)

I hope he will get closer to Federer in this stat.

Of course there can be easier opponents, i have never said otherwise. I think it evens out in the long run, thats all. For example, If you move Big3 to being born in 1981, Federer probably wins less 2004-2007, but more late career.

You know what i think about this top10 win, and 75%+ win etc stats. It proves everything AND nothing, depending on what you want to prove.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Of course there can be easier opponents, i have never said otherwise. I think it evens out in the long run, thats all. For example, If you move Big3 to being born in 1981, Federer probably wins less 2004-2007, but more late career.

You know what i think about this top10 win, and 75%+ win etc stats. It proves everything AND nothing, depending on what you want to prove.

What if a player peaks for 5 years at a very high level with tough opponents? He won't be able to make multiple CYGS which would make him the GOAT.

Not all player have 15+ years careers.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

You mean Djokovic needed time against a MUG like Roddick to turn it around? You can't be serious. GS champion Djokovic was winning WTF and Masters 1000's and reaching slam finals all throughout but needed more time.

Ok.

 

[Jonas78]

What if a player peaks for 5 years at a very high level with tough opponents? He won't be able to make multiple CYGS which woudl make him the GOAT.

Not all player have 15+ years careers.

Of course, If Sampras/Agassi/Federer/Nadal/Djokovic were born the same year it would be tough for anyone, but what are the odds?

As i said, it usually evens out. Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, they have all had their tougher and easier years, their injuries, ups and downs etc.

 

[True Fanerer]

Ok.

 

[Fedforever]

Good grief. Djoko's doing great, won the last two slams, likely to win more. His dad is still moaning about supposed "insults" that are twelve years old, and some of his fans are spending their time producing meaningless charts and tying themselves in knots about peak Fed, prime Fed, utterly past it Fed, who knows, who cares?

Relax, chill, enjoy the fact your guy's back in good form and winning.

 

[Eren]

Break Points saved stat seems weird.

Federer in 2004-2007 faced Nadal often on clay. I bet he faced more BPs against Nadal on clay and saved some of them. In his later years he started to face (a lot of) BPs against even mugs like Stackhovsky and even lost lol.

But then again, this is all my eye test and for all I know, I could be very wrong about this.

Could you somehow post the absolute amount of BPs faced/saved (not percentages only) to see what that was.

Return game declined significantly though

 

[Eren]

He met only once Roddick after 2010, he couldn't turn around.

Just like Federer could not capitalize on Djokovic's decline in 2017 because they never met. H2H is circumstantial. Why only mention it now?

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Just like Federer could not capitalize on Djokovic's decline in 2017 because they never met. H2H is circumstantial. Why only mention it now?

h2h with declined players are meaningless, that's why I prefer to see the h2h in finals or semifinals of big tournaments first.

(djokovic-federer 17-8 in slam finals/semis, yec finals and masters finals)

 

[NatF]

h2h with declined players are meaningless, that's why I prefer to see the h2h in finals or semifinals of big tournaments first.

(djokovic-federer 17-8 in slam finals/semis, yec finals and masters finals)

Declined players can still make SF's and F's.