Federer 2011 Hardcourt Setup

dalekim24

New User
My First Post: Technical responses please: ive been reading these posts about federer's setup for 4 years, 3 years after starting tennis. I've never had lessons but have been very athletic being the typical jock in highschool. the only reference ive had to build my game to where it is today is video's of federer (which was a 3 year learning curve before realizing i couldnt do exactly what he does)

As an avid Federer fan and copycat, I think its important to reopen the discussion on a regularly basis seeing as how Federer's game has changed at a constant rate since turning pro in 1998 and every year since. Just take a look at Federer 2008 vs 2011, the demeanor, style and even interviews have changed significantly.

At this point, we can only guess what he's using, so please use your own experience with similar equipment (i.e. Luxilon, gut or multifiliment) and 90sq inch rackets.

The point of view originates from the idea of federer as more of a reactor these days compared to when he controlled points on his account. His movement doesn't seem to be as dynamic or dramatic but rather a tighter grip at impact, and adapting to a slightly smaller physical frame with swifter more compact movements horizontally verses a vertical.

just from comparing different years on the hardcourt surface, he seems to be using a tighter string setup and higher gauge now (i.e. thinner strings) but that's not as important here.
OBJECTIVE : I want to know why he sets up his racket the way he does.
[seeing as his setup at his height, conditioning, muscle proportion, hand size, hand firmness, style of play, experience, footwork etc.. are all factors here, my goal is not to copy his equipment but copy his form which requires a rackets customized to my specifications in direct relation to federer and his racket spec's. The issue is about personal customization

1. I want to know why he uses gut in the mains instead of the crosses, is this for greater pocketing (structurally speaking in combination with a stiff Lux in the crosses?) with the racket's length parallel horizontally?

2. I'm experimenting keeping a few rackets on hand at different tension's and gauges to have interchangeably on the opponent style and how i need to hit the ball that day, does anyone else here done that before?
Lower gauges w/ a tighter set up against flat ball strikers
higher gauge w/ lighter tension setup against players that generate more spin
And for the exceptional players who do everything well [pace, spin, direction used differently in shots] by forcing me to hit balls off balance, a tighter, higher gauge setup

3. What are some applicable player examples of Federer matchup's expressed in question 2?

a. Murray as the flat striker on most shots for sure,

b. nadal for the spin player,

c. djokavick as the variety player who keeps you guessing by playing speed+spin, spin+direction, peed+direction and defensive backspin.
**Federer is the only player i know in the top 10 that plays the offensive slice from the back of the court-This is on the high backhand slice
 

dalekim24

New User
Current setup

My current setup:

trying new things here:

#1[Main] lux 16L rough 55lbs [Cross]Gosen og 17, 55lbs

#2 [Main] Gosen og 16, 50lbs [cross] cyber flash 17(1.2mm) 54lbs

Previous set up:


[Main] lux 16L rough 55lbs [Cross] X-1 biphase 52 (after many different tries at various setup of this hybrid, found this to be the most durable but still didnt last more than 8-10 hrs). Using this setup was useless for the x-1's intensions so ive given up on it. Maybe another poly would work? possibly something that isnt designed to bite into the ball like the "BB power alu rough" and hence the string bed of the opposite strings. could the regualar BB work or the cyberflash??

What ever the setup, my poly has to be between 54-55lbs regardless of main or cross weave.
 

Lambsscroll

Hall of Fame
Basically Fed's string setup is for spin and feel. It wasn't until I actually put Big Banger ALU Power Rough in the cross where I discovered the tremendous spin and control I was missing. With other polys in the cross I didn't have as much spin nor control. Just to add, Big Banger ALU Power Rough has a unique feel to it which I believe aids in feel. Also having my BLX 90 strung in the high 40s produced more feel, spin and control than when strung in the low 50s. So from personal experience Fed's string setup gave me the most feel, control and spin out of any other string or hybrid thus far.
 
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dalekim24

New User
That's very interesting Lambsscroll, ive noticed your input through the years which has had a great influence on my string selection. i started with the Lux BB power rough so i haven't liked other polys out there. lux BB power, or the cyber flash offer the same effect but do not have the ball biting capabilities while strings like Bab pro hurricane tour are great for bite but have too much pop and not enough of a dead dampened feel that the rough are favored for.

*One disadvantage is that since the rough gets so much bite into the ball, it also cuts into the opposing string and reduces the string life in half, which is why im considering switching my practice rackets for more durability

Ideally id like to keep 5 of the same rackets on hand at different tensions

-two rackets for practice sessions [lower gauge:1 high tension, 1 low tension]
-three rackets for match playing
[high gauge low tension, : against blockers that hit short often
low gauge high tension, : against flat players that require more compact strokes against
and high gauge high tension] : against all around players with good ball movement, spin, and pace

** i will let you know of my finding on this research although it will take about a year to do this. It would really help if someone else has experience doing this

if i may guess your cross set up:
your [main]Lux rough are strung at 48lbs,
-will your [crosses]nat gut be strung at 51-54 depending on match conditions,
-X-1 biphase 16g around 52-55?
-and Gosen 17g around 53-56?
 

TopFH

Hall of Fame
To prevent the Rough to cut your other string, you should use string savers. Federer uses Babolat Elastrocross 2. Look into P1's or Fabfed's pics to see where Fed places them.
 

Lambsscroll

Hall of Fame
if i may guess your cross set up:
your [main]Lux rough are strung at 48lbs,
-will your [crosses]nat gut be strung at 51-54 depending on match conditions,
-X-1 biphase 16g around 52-55?
-and Gosen 17g around 53-56?

As of right now the NG/BB ALU Power Rough strung at 48/48 pounds works beautifully. I haven't tried stringing the BB ALU Rough at a lower tension. When I was messing around with X-one/poly I liked it also in the higher 40s. With Gosen OG Sheep Micro 16g in the mains I definitely preferred stringing it at 50 pounds with the poly at the same tension. As far as a string setup and tension right before an important match I would go with Natural Gut mains and BB ALU Power Rough in the cross at 48/48.
 
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dalekim24

New User
As of right now the NG/BB ALU Power Rough strung at 48/48 pounds works beautifully. I haven't tried stringing the BB ALU Rough at a lower tension. When I was messing around with X-one/poly I liked it also in the higher 40s. With Gosen OG Sheep Micro 16g in the mains I differently preferred stringing it at 50 pounds with the poly at the same tension. As far as a string setup and tension right before an important match I would go with Natural Gut mains and BB ALU Power Rough in the cross at 48/48.

My mistake, i meant to ask about the gut mains, but thanks for answering anyways. As i figured, the gosen og sheep micro would be strung a couple lbs higher than the nat gut and X-1 biphase as that has been my experience. Thanks for validating my experience with hybriding the Lux BB power rough 16L.
 

xFullCourtTenniSx

Hall of Fame
My First Post: Technical responses please: ive been reading these posts about federer's setup for 4 years, 3 years after starting tennis. I've never had lessons but have been very athletic being the typical jock in highschool. the only reference ive had to build my game to where it is today is video's of federer (which was a 3 year learning curve before realizing i couldnt do exactly what he does)

As an avid Federer fan and copycat, I think its important to reopen the discussion on a regularly basis seeing as how Federer's game has changed at a constant rate since turning pro in 1998 and every year since. Just take a look at Federer 2008 vs 2011, the demeanor, style and even interviews have changed significantly.

At this point, we can only guess what he's using, so please use your own experience with similar equipment (i.e. Luxilon, gut or multifiliment) and 90sq inch rackets.

The point of view originates from the idea of federer as more of a reactor these days compared to when he controlled points on his account. His movement doesn't seem to be as dynamic or dramatic but rather a tighter grip at impact, and adapting to a slightly smaller physical frame with swifter more compact movements horizontally verses a vertical.

just from comparing different years on the hardcourt surface, he seems to be using a tighter string setup and higher gauge now (i.e. thinner strings) but that's not as important here.
OBJECTIVE : I want to know why he sets up his racket the way he does.
[seeing as his setup at his height, conditioning, muscle proportion, hand size, hand firmness, style of play, experience, footwork etc.. are all factors here, my goal is not to copy his equipment but copy his form which requires a rackets customized to my specifications in direct relation to federer and his racket spec's. The issue is about personal customization

1. I want to know why he uses gut in the mains instead of the crosses, is this for greater pocketing (structurally speaking in combination with a stiff Lux in the crosses?) with the racket's length parallel horizontally?

2. I'm experimenting keeping a few rackets on hand at different tension's and gauges to have interchangeably on the opponent style and how i need to hit the ball that day, does anyone else here done that before?
Lower gauges w/ a tighter set up against flat ball strikers
higher gauge w/ lighter tension setup against players that generate more spin
And for the exceptional players who do everything well [pace, spin, direction used differently in shots] by forcing me to hit balls off balance, a tighter, higher gauge setup

3. What are some applicable player examples of Federer matchup's expressed in question 2?

a. Murray as the flat striker on most shots for sure,

b. nadal for the spin player,

c. djokavick as the variety player who keeps you guessing by playing speed+spin, spin+direction, peed+direction and defensive backspin.
**Federer is the only player i know in the top 10 that plays the offensive slice from the back of the court-This is on the high backhand slice

This is an extremely immature post, but I'll bite and give you info.

1) This is VERY simple. The difference in durability between gut in mains and Lux in mains is VERY SMALL. It's so small that the SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER PLAYABILITY of having gut in the mains would be worth having by trading off that small added durability. Also, given that he's a HIGHLY PAID PROFESSIONAL, cost means little to him, so he gets what he wants and he wants what plays and feels better. Gut in mains feels like heaven. Lux in mains and you might as well use a cheap multifilament and not gut because you're wasting money and wasting the potential of having natural gut in your rackets. Having gut in your mains makes the sweetspot feel like it's the entire freakin' stringbed. Lux in the mains makes the sweetspot feel like the size of a dime (I'm not even joking here, it feels SLIGHTLY softer than full Lux, and full Lux is much cheaper and plays 90% the same).

It has little to do with the racket (though a 90 sq in head makes the stiff feeling of Lux even worse), and more to do with the fact that gut is wasted in the crosses.

2) I've played with different tensions, but not different gauges. There's no need to modify your gauges as well as tension. It creates way too many variables and you'd need far too many rackets to truly benefit from it. Also, if you don't string ALL your rackets VERY REGULARLY, you also lose some of the benefit from it because your rackets will lose tension even if you don't hit with them.

Sampras DID mess with different gauges when he first arrived at tournaments as well as tension (he played full natural gut). Though once he decided what gauge he wanted to play with, he stuck with that throughout the tournament and from there he maybe modified his tension based on his opponent (unlikely seeing as Sampras is someone who forced his game on other people, so he probably selected his tension and gauge based on the surface he played on).

I don't know of any other pro that messes with different gauge strings. I know Federer and Nadal don't, so I'm sure that's good enough for you.

Also, if you did have multiple setups, if there's someone that's straight up going to blow you out of the water, just pick the tension you're most comfortable playing with (or just go with the higher tension simply because they're likely going to hit harder than most people you play with). There's no need to modify your gauges based on your opponent, and if I were you, I'd have the lower gauge on the spin player and a higher gauge on the flat player. Lower gauge means more pop and spin, and if you go by the concept that (on average) spin players don't his as hard as flat players and you will be generating the pace, then the extra pop would be much appreciated (though your strings will burn that much faster since heavy spin on heavy spin=dead strings). But I straight up look for durability and can't afford to shave off anymore so I don't go any lower than 16 gauge.

3) Federer stated that he strings higher against Roddick. I'm fairly certain he'd string lower for Murray and Nadal. It's not so much the fact of whether they hit spin or not (well, maybe in Nadal's case that could be true), but the type of ball Federer will be given. Murray will rarely blow Federer off the court, it is in fact the other way around and Murray will (more often than not) be giving Federer relatively soft shots. As a result, he strings lower to get a bit more pop and access to spin to finish those shots off while also being able to generate the normal level of pace without overexerting himself. He strings higher because he's going to control Roddick's incoming pace (obvious). However, if he DOES differentiate, it's by a very small amount. His stringing logs for tournaments list only one tension set, so we can't be sure unless we talk to his stringers after every match whether or not he actually uses different tensions for different players and whether or not those tension differences were significant. I'd estimate no more than 2 pounds of deviation (and I'm thinking that's pretty high as it is). Then again, I did see Federer's rackets labeled with either 1.0 or 0.5 kg differentials. Probably 0.5 since 1.0 is a large difference (+/-1.0 kg=+/2.2 lbs). But plenty of pros bring multiple tensions to the courts in case the temperature is different from what they expected or they or their opponent is playing differently from expected (could also be due to court conditions being different due to rain or something). But they can also have rackets strung during matches, so they are more or less set for the match.



Bottom line, these things matter very little as you're not a pro and you're not going to need your equipment to be THIS PRECISE. If you ever string gut and poly, I HIGHLY recommend gut in the mains. Even as a string breaker, the difference in durability is very negligible, especially compared to the difference in playability. Also, pick ONE TENSION THAT YOU LIKE AND STICK WITH IT. It's nice to have multiple tensions so you don't have to adjust as much, but your game will vary based on the tension, and you don't want that. You want to have a well-rounded game, and constantly build on that. If you need to modify your tension or strings or gauge as a result of getting better, fine. It's better to have 2 rackets of the same tension in your bag than it is to have 5 rackets of different tensions. If the one you like pops, you're screwed and have to adjust.
 

PrinceMoron

Legend
You will reach a point where tiredness sets in and you can't generate the same pace as you did at the start of the match - keep 2 strung at slightly lower tension for later in the match.

Keep another 2 at a very different tension to what you normally use - they can be handy when you have not brought your normal game and just can't do anything right.

But might just be cheaper and easier to carry spare fresh socks and shirts.
 

dalekim24

New User
Tremendous insight from both of you. Both of you seem to have given opinions much thought and sound rational. I think both posts, although contrary to eachother, are valid statements. i will think about it and get back to this discussion
 
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