Federer 2015 vs Djokovic 2021

abmk

Bionic Poster
Comparing the years in which they both turned 34.

Slams:

AO: Federer lost in 3R to Seppi. Djokovic won it. Obviously, Djokovic was better. But if Fritz had held his head/was as solid as Seppi, he could've taken out Djokovic who was hampered in that match.

RG: Federer made it to QF, losing one set, but lost to peak Wawa in straights. Djokovic won it. Obviously, Djokovic was better. But 2015 RG Djokovic > 2021 RG Djokovic and given 15 Wawa beat 15 Djoko convincingly, he'd have beaten 21 Djoko convincingly as well.

Wim: Federer demolished Murray in the SF. Djoko had to rely on Shapo choking big time in the 1st 2 sets. Fed was also more dominant/impressive in the rounds prior.
Yeah, Djoko won his final vs a meh Berretini in 4 sets and fed lost to peak Djoko in 4 sets, but I don't think fed was any worse level wise in Wim 15 final compared to Djoko in Wim 21 final.

Their stats at respective Wimbledons are about the same overall despite Fed facing 15 Djok and 15 Murray, both of whom are significantly better than anyone Djoko faced in Wim 21.
Fed's serving stats a little better than Djoko's and Djoko's return stats a little better than Fed's

Serve: fed at 95.5% hold, Djoko at 93.8% hold. fed winning 75.7% service points, djoko winning 73.7% service points
Return: fed at 26.4% breaks, djoko at 28.3% breaks. fed winning 38.3% return points, djoko winning 41.3% return points


If we take stats before the final (Wim 15 final Djoko and Wim 21 final Berretini are like gigantic miles apart)

Serve: fed at 98.9% hold, Djoko at 94.6% hold. fed winning 78.6% service points, djoko winning 74.9% service points
Return: fed at 31.5% breaks, djoko at 28.6% breaks. fed winning 40.2% return points, djoko winning 41.7% return points


The service stats difference widens obviously. Fed also surges ahead on break%, even with a little less % of return points won.

Keep in mind that fed's competition before the final was significantly better: Murray, Groth, Querrey, Simon, RBA, Dzhumur
Djokovic: Shapo, Fucsovic, Kudla, Anderson,Draper, Garin

Conclusion? Fed in Wim 15 > Djoko in Wim 21, clearly

USO: Fed came into the final without losing a set, including dismantling Wawa in the semi. Lost to peak djokovic in a tight 4-setter in the final. Djokovic struggled on his way to the final and lost in straights to Med. Obviously fed was better.

Other tournaments till USO:

Federer in 15 won Cincy and Brisbane/Dubai/Istanbul/Halle, made the final of IW/Rome
Djokovic in 21 Won Belgrade, made final of Rome

So fed obviously better here.

Win loss record:

Fed was 51-8 till USO
Djokovic 44-6 till USO

Summary:

15 as a year was a relatively weak one, similar to 06,10.
fed made 2 slam finals and a QF in 15 as opposed to djoko in 21 winning 3 slams and making a slam final.

so how much worse was 21 compared to 15? Quite a bit, I'd say.
 
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NAS

Hall of Fame
2017 was when half the top 10 players from 2016 were either playing injured or out with injury: Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Nishikori so the competition level fell drastically.
To he fair to Fed, competition level fell in to Wimbledon and US Open and he didn't won US open.
And this year Wimbledon competition level also fell so it kind of evens out
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed was better at Wimbledon and the US Open, Novak better at AO and RG.

But Novak was far closer to Federer at the former two (Wimbledon is, in fact, quite close between them imo) than Federer was to Novak at the latter two and I think that pretty much ends the debate as far as Slams are concerned.

Fed was also (for once) better outside the Slams but I don't think that makes a super significant difference in the long run.

Very curious to see how the fall swing plays out from here. Fed had a pretty respectable run at the WTF in 2015 and he won Basel as well. Shanghai and Paris were just super poor from him though. I wonder what Djokovic's will be like.
 
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Fed 2014-2017 was a beast...his best level
After years and years of arguing tremendously here that 2015 Fed was weak, now the guy is arguing... exactly what!? That Fed was good, but he was still weak, although still better than 2021 Djokovic. Incredible mental gymnastics. Lol
Those Federer in 4 votes in the 2015-16 Fed-Djokovic match threads still hurts doesn't it abmk. Lol
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
2017 was when half the top 10 players from 2016 were either playing injured or out with injury: Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Nishikori so the competition level fell drastically.

wrong.
2016 had injured/AWOL fed/nadal.
Wawarinka was there in the first of 2017 (better than first half of 2016 actually)
2017 also had delpo in the 2nd half of the season. Thiem on clay. Dimitrov having his best year, including AO run, YEC win, Cincy, Brisbane/.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Fed was better at Wimbledon and the US Open, Novak better at AO and RG.

But Novak was far closer to Federer at the former two (Wimbledon is, in fact, quite close between them imo) than Federer was to Novak at the latter two and I think that pretty much ends the debate as far as Slams are concerned.

Fed was also (for once) better outside the Slams but I don't think that makes a super significant difference in the long run.

Very curious to see how the fall swing plays out from here. Fed had a pretty respectable run at the WTF in 2015 and he won Basel as well. Shanghai and Paris were just super poor from him though. I wonder what Djokovic's will be like.

don't quite agree with that.
At USO, Djoko struggled on his way to the final compared to Fed who was dominant. Djoko got beaten badly in the final. Fed-Djok in 15 was a tight 4-setter.

In fact, djoko was worse in USO 21 final than fed in RG 15 QF.
Fed lost 1 set in 4 matches (to Monfils) prior to RG 15 QF. Djoko lost 3 sets in first 4 matches of USO 21.

Wawa of RG 15 would lose 1 set tops to Djoko of RG 21 and there is a decent possibility Djoko gets straight-setted (esp 4R/final version). semi version would probably take a set.

Wimbledon is the closest b/w them - that I agree with.
 
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Oceans II

Professional
So, 2015 Federer who is maligned by his own fans for losing to Seppi and others earlier in the year is significantly better than 2021 Djokovic who was 1 match away from completing the CYGS and defeated the:
. god of clay in Nadal at RG
. hottest clay player at the time in Tsitsipas at RG
. USO champ and hottest HC player at the time in Medvedev at AO
. OSG champ and hottest HC player at the time in Zverev at USO plus AO
. hottest grass player at the time in Berrettini at W who also only lost to Djokovic in slams

Logically doesn't quite add up.
 

FedrMatt

Professional
Comparing the years in which they both turned 34.

Slams:

AO: Federer lost in 3R to Seppi. Djokovic won it. Obviously, Djokovic was better. But if Fritz had held his head/was as solid as Seppi, he could've taken out Djokovic who was hampered in that match.

RG: Federer made it to QF, losing one set, but lost to peak Wawa in straights. Djokovic won it. Obviously, Djokovic was better. But 2015 RG Djokovic > 2021 RG Djokovic and given 15 Wawa beat 15 Djoko convincingly, he'd have beaten 21 Djoko convincingly as well.

Wim: Federer demolished Murray in the SF. Djoko had to rely on Shapo choking big time in the 1st 2 sets. Fed was also more dominant/impressive in the rounds prior.
Yeah, Djoko won his final vs a meh Berretini in 4 sets and fed lost to peak Djoko in 4 sets, but I don't think fed was any worse level wise in Wim 15 final compared to Djoko in Wim 21 final.

Their stats at respective Wimbledons are about the same overall despite Fed facing 15 Djok and 15 Murray, both of whom are significantly better than anyone Djoko faced in Wim 21.
Fed's serving stats a little better than Djoko's and Djoko's return stats a little better than Fed's

Serve: fed at 95.5% hold, Djoko at 93.8% hold. fed winning 75.7% service points, djoko winning 73.7% service points
Return: fed at 26.4% breaks, djoko at 28.3% breaks. fed winning 38.3% return points, djoko winning 41.3% return points


If we take stats before the final (Wim 15 final Djoko and Wim 21 final Berretini are like gigantic miles apart)

Serve: fed at 98.9% hold, Djoko at 94.6% hold. fed winning 78.6% service points, djoko winning 74.9% service points
Return: fed at 31.5% breaks, djoko at 28.6% breaks. fed winning 40.2% return points, djoko winning 41.7% return points


The service stats difference widens obviously. Fed also surges ahead on break%, even with a little less % of return points won.

Keep in mind that fed's competition before the final was significantly better: Murray, Groth, Querrey, Simon, RBA, Dzhumur
Djokovic: Shapo, Fucsovic, Kudla, Anderson,Draper, Garin

Conclusion? Fed in Wim 15 > Djoko in Wim 21, clearly

USO: Fed came into the final without losing a set, including dismantling Wawa in the semi. Lost to peak djokovic in a tight 4-setter in the final. Djokovic struggled on his way to the final and lost in straights to Med. Obviously fed was better.

Other tournaments till USO:

Federer in 15 won Cincy and Brisbane/Dubai/Istanbul/Halle, made the final of IW/Rome
Djokovic in 21 Won Belgrade, made final of Rome

So fed obviously better here.

Win loss record:

Fed was 51-8 till USO
Djokovic 44-6 till USO

Summary:

15 as a year was a relatively weak one, similar to 06,10.
fed made 2 slam finals and a QF in 15 as opposed to djoko in 21 winning 3 slams and making a slam final.

so how much worse was 21 compared to 15? Quite a bit, I'd say.

Great post

Be prepared for the salt though
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
So, 2015 Federer who is maligned by his own fans for losing to Seppi and others earlier in the year is significantly better than 2021 Djokovic who was 1 match away from completing the CYGS and defeated the:
. god of clay in Nadal at RG
. hottest clay player at the time in Tsitsipas at RG
. USO champ and hottest HC player at the time in Medvedev at AO
. OSG champ and hottest HC player at the time in Zverev at USO plus AO
. hottest grass player at the time in Berrettini at W who also only lost to Djokovic in slams

Logically doesn't quite add up.

Fed in 2015 beat Murray at Wim, Stan at USO
Med sucked big time in the AO final - mostly his own fault.
lol @ bigging up Berretini of Wim 21 who is decent at his best and wasn't even close to it in the Wim 21 final

Djoko at AO 21 obviously turned out to be clearly better than fed of AO 15, but had Fritz been as solid as Seppi was, he'd be out in 3R as well.
 

FedrMatt

Professional
After years and years of arguing tremendously here that 2015 Fed was weak, now the guy is arguing... exactly what!? That Fed was good, but he was still weak, although still better than 2021 Djokovic. Incredible mental gymnastics. Lol
Those Federer in 4 votes in the 2015-16 Fed-Djokovic match threads still hurts doesn't it abmk. Lol

Way to miss the point

It’s about the respective competition at 34/35 years old.

Novak has had it FAR easier.
 

Oceans II

Professional
Fed in 2015 beat Murray at Wim, Stan at USO
Med sucked big time in the AO final - mostly his own fault.
lol @ bigging up Berretini of Wim 21 who is decent at his best and wasn't even close to it in the Wim 21 final

Djoko at AO 21 obviously turned out to be clearly better than fed of AO 15, but had Fritz been as solid as Seppi was, he'd be out in 3R as well.
I agree that Federer's victories over Murray and Wawrinka are super impressive, pretty much peak levels.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
After years and years of arguing tremendously here that 2015 Fed was weak, now the guy is arguing... exactly what!? That Fed was good, but he was still weak, although still better than 2021 Djokovic. Incredible mental gymnastics. Lol
Those Federer in 4 votes in the 2015-16 Fed-Djokovic match threads still hurts doesn't it abmk. Lol

hey nutjob_jango,

15 fed was merely at the level of 1-2 slammers. so competition relatively weak in 15.
Its much worse in 21.

I said fed in 4 for Wim 15 final, but he significantly under-performed in the final and Djoko raised his level significantly.

I said Djoko was favorite in USO 15:

yeah, stan's return position helped fed quite a bit ...

I'd say in the range 60-65 for djokovic and 35-40 for federer ....(if pushed I'd go 60-40 djokovic)

but no doubt, if djokovic doesn't bring his A+ game like he did at the last 2 wimby finals, federer will pounce ..

a lot will depend on fed's disrupting tactics and if he can get into Novak's head a bit ....

 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I agree that Federer's victories over Murray and Wawrinka are super impressive, pretty much peak levels.

It was high level for ~3 sets/2 hrs.
not able to sustain that for longer vs a prime or actually peak ATG in Djoko in Wim 15/USO 15 finals.

which is what would've happened had 21 Djoko faced off vs 15 version of himself, at every slam to the boot.

The below also matters, but obviously goes against your agenda:

Med sucked big time in the AO final - mostly his own fault.
lol @ bigging up Berretini of Wim 21 who is decent at his best and wasn't even close to it in the Wim 21 final

Djoko at AO 21 obviously turned out to be clearly better than fed of AO 15, but had Fritz been as solid as Seppi was, he'd be out in 3R as well.
 
hey nutjob_jango,

15 fed was merely at the level of 1-2 slammers. so competition relatively weak in 15.
Its much worse in 21.

I said fed in 4 for Wim 15 final, but he significantly under-performed in the final and Djoko raised his level significantly.

I said Djoko was favorite in USO 15:



:-D
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Djokovic's 2021 Wimbledon was especially weak.. When Berrettini is your biggest threat, it speaks volumes about the competition.

Also, Berretinni is barely decent competition at his best and he didn't even play to that potential in the Wim 21 final.
 
Way to miss the point

It’s about the respective competition at 34/35 years old.

Novak has had it FAR easier.
3-0 in Slams. Now you can have your hypothetical cake as much as you want. You can argue that 2015 Fed is better at physics than 1934 Einstein for all I care. Be my guest. ;)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Dude are you reading your posts. :oops: You're the one here who thinks that 0 Slam winner is better than 3 Slam winner. Who is the nutjob here?:-D

you obviously, nutso. I was comparing their levels in the respective years, not the achievements.

No one sane thinks 2021 Djoko was better than 2021 DJoko even if 2012 djoko won only 1 slam.
 
no, your hatred and jealousy have driven you insane.
Hopefully you get well one day. :)
Once again, read you posts. Every one of your posts here is filled either with insults toward other non Fed fan posters, or crazy imaginations and assumptions about Peak Fed. You're probably the craziest Fed fan around here, and I'm telling this not in the positive way.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Once again, read you posts. Every one of your posts here is filled either with insults toward other non Fed fan posters, or crazy imaginations and assumptions about Peak Fed. You're probably the craziest Fed fan around here, and I'm telling this not in the positive way.

The salt is high with this one.
I only insult those who are nutjobs or those who insult me.
Plenty of my posts are about what actually happened, stats and match commentary.
Like I said, get well soon one day.
 
The salt is high with this one.
I only insult those who are nutjobs or those who insult me.
Plenty of my posts are about what actually happened, stats and match commentary.
Like I said, get well soon one day.
Which is basically 99 % of the posters here who doesn't think like you. 8-B

Your posts aren't about what actually happened, they are about what you think that actually happened. And that's one big gigantic Fed delusional biased salad right there alright.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Which is basically 99 % of the posters here who doesn't think like you. 8-B

Your posts aren't about what actually happened, they are about what you think that actually happened. And that's one big gigantic Fed delusional biased salad right there alright.

No. There are only some% of it here. Difference of opinion is perfectly fine as long as it is somewhere in the realm of reality. Not absolutely delusional opinions.
PLenty of posts where I talk about what happened. But obviously goes over your nutso head.
 
No. There are only some% of it here. Difference of opinion is perfectly fine as long as it is somewhere in the realm of reality. Not absolutely delusional opinions.
PLenty of posts where I talk about what happened. But obviously goes over your nutso head.
Even if there are only some % I don't think it's nice to insult people the way you're doing it in the past few years. Delusional posters or not you're not the one who decides what should be delusional and what should not be. Insulting other posters shouldn't be allowed on this forum, but for some reason the mods tolerate you in this regard. Imagine everyone starts insulting other posters just because they don't like other people opinions. This forum will be a real mess. ;)
 

itrium84

Hall of Fame
Comparing the years in which they both turned 34.

Slams:

AO: Federer lost in 3R to Seppi. Djokovic won it. Obviously, Djokovic was better. But if Fritz had held his head/was as solid as Seppi, he could've taken out Djokovic who was hampered in that match.

RG: Federer made it to QF, losing one set, but lost to peak Wawa in straights. Djokovic won it. Obviously, Djokovic was better. But 2015 RG Djokovic > 2021 RG Djokovic and given 15 Wawa beat 15 Djoko convincingly, he'd have beaten 21 Djoko convincingly as well.

Wim: Federer demolished Murray in the SF. Djoko had to rely on Shapo choking big time in the 1st 2 sets. Fed was also more dominant/impressive in the rounds prior.
Yeah, Djoko won his final vs a meh Berretini in 4 sets and fed lost to peak Djoko in 4 sets, but I don't think fed was any worse level wise in Wim 15 final compared to Djoko in Wim 21 final.

Their stats at respective Wimbledons are about the same overall despite Fed facing 15 Djok and 15 Murray, both of whom are significantly better than anyone Djoko faced in Wim 21.
Fed's serving stats a little better than Djoko's and Djoko's return stats a little better than Fed's

Serve: fed at 95.5% hold, Djoko at 93.8% hold. fed winning 75.7% service points, djoko winning 73.7% service points
Return: fed at 26.4% breaks, djoko at 28.3% breaks. fed winning 38.3% return points, djoko winning 41.3% return points


If we take stats before the final (Wim 15 final Djoko and Wim 21 final Berretini are like gigantic miles apart)

Serve: fed at 98.9% hold, Djoko at 94.6% hold. fed winning 78.6% service points, djoko winning 74.9% service points
Return: fed at 31.5% breaks, djoko at 28.6% breaks. fed winning 40.2% return points, djoko winning 41.7% return points


The service stats difference widens obviously. Fed also surges ahead on break%, even with a little less % of return points won.

Keep in mind that fed's competition before the final was significantly better: Murray, Groth, Querrey, Simon, RBA, Dzhumur
Djokovic: Shapo, Fucsovic, Kudla, Anderson,Draper, Garin

Conclusion? Fed in Wim 15 > Djoko in Wim 21, clearly

USO: Fed came into the final without losing a set, including dismantling Wawa in the semi. Lost to peak djokovic in a tight 4-setter in the final. Djokovic struggled on his way to the final and lost in straights to Med. Obviously fed was better.

Other tournaments till USO:

Federer in 15 won Cincy and Brisbane/Dubai/Istanbul/Halle, made the final of IW/Rome
Djokovic in 21 Won Belgrade, made final of Rome

So fed obviously better here.

Win loss record:

Fed was 51-8 till USO
Djokovic 44-6 till USO

Summary:

15 as a year was a relatively weak one, similar to 06,10.
fed made 2 slam finals and a QF in 15 as opposed to djoko in 21 winning 3 slams and making a slam final.

so how much worse was 21 compared to 15? Quite a bit, I'd say.
K
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Federer was quite beastly in 2015. Take Novak out and crushes the competition at both W and USO. He also wins the WTF.
 

bnjkn

Professional
2015 Fed was really good but is being a bit overrated here imo. Cincy was impressive but overall not quite his peak. Would have a hard time beating 2021 Djokovic, who is a beast. Those grinding long matches, we have seen it many times and they end with Djokovic as the winner.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
2017 was when half the top 10 players from 2016 were either playing injured or out with injury: Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Nishikori so the competition level fell drastically.
Not when Fed won the AO and Sunshine Double. Competition was still good then.

Also, Fed's Wim win wasn't worse than Novak's. Both were about equally easy.

And Fed still beat Nadal to attain most of that success, didn't he? Better than beating the Next Gen. And I'm confused on why your statement doesn't apply to 2021 as well since the players you mentioned were also absent this year.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
2015 Fed was really good but is being a bit overrated here imo. Cincy was impressive but overall not quite his peak. Would have a hard time beating 2021 Djokovic, who is a beast. Those grinding long matches, we have seen it many times and they end with Djokovic as the winner.
Ummm, no. Why would he have a hard time beating 2021 Djokovic who is worse than 2015 Djokovic?
 

NedStark

Professional
Djokovic's 2021 Wimbledon was especially weak.. When Berrettini is your biggest threat, it speaks volumes about the competition.

Fed in 2015 beat Murray at Wim, Stan at USO
Med sucked big time in the AO final - mostly his own fault.
lol @ bigging up Berretini of Wim 21 who is decent at his best and wasn't even close to it in the Wim 21 final

Djoko at AO 21 obviously turned out to be clearly better than fed of AO 15, but had Fritz been as solid as Seppi was, he'd be out in 3R as well.

Forget 2015.

I would take Federer's 2017 Wimbledon draw (M.Zverev - Dimitrov - Raonic - Berdych - Cilic) over both 2021 Wimbledon draws (top half and bottom half).
 

NedStark

Professional
2017 was when half the top 10 players from 2016 were either playing injured or out with injury: Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic, Nishikori so the competition level fell drastically.
I would take a M.Zverev - Dimitrov - Raonic - Berdych - Cilic (most were finalists/multi-semifinalists/multi-quarterfinalists) Wimbledon draw over both draws in Wimbledon 2021.
 

ForehandRF

Legend
I would take a M.Zverev - Dimitrov - Raonic - Berdych - Cilic (most were finalists/multi-semifinalists/multi-quarterfinalists) Wimbledon draw over both draws in Wimbledon 2021.
On that draw there were players who already beat Fed in the past at Wimbledon so that run of Fed is underrated, especially because he maintained his focus and level, never slipping even for a set :D
 

bnjkn

Professional
Ummm, no. Why would he have a hard time beating 2021 Djokovic who is worse than 2015 Djokovic?
Seems as tough to beat as the 2015 one to me. Yeah this USO final not so much but throughout the year he's been really tough and consistent at the slams. I just think that Federer's problem against Djokovic is not his tennis. Even in 2019 he still had the tennis to beat Djokovic. But Federer hates those grinding matches. He's been able to win some but it's not his game.
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
So, 2015 Federer who is maligned by his own fans for losing to Seppi and others earlier in the year is significantly better than 2021 Djokovic who was 1 match away from completing the CYGS and defeated the:
. god of clay in Nadal at RG
. hottest clay player at the time in Tsitsipas at RG
. USO champ and hottest HC player at the time in Medvedev at AO
. OSG champ and hottest HC player at the time in Zverev at USO plus AO
. hottest grass player at the time in Berrettini at W who also only lost to Djokovic in slams

Logically doesn't quite add up.

it adds up perfectly if you understand that we are witnessing the career inflation era

the whole point is that the almost CYGS was a farce. several guys let an injured Djokovic off the hook at the AO, Stef collapsed at the French, and Shapo/Berr couldn’t take out a Novak that was choking like a dog at Wimbledon
 
Forget 2015.

I would take Federer's 2017 Wimbledon draw (M.Zverev - Dimitrov - Raonic - Berdych - Cilic) over both 2021 Wimbledon draws (top half and bottom half).
Berrettini and Shapovalov played about as well as Raonic and Berdych.

The rest are mostly irrelevant level-wise. Djokovic would conquer that draw dropping 2 sets, maybe 3 at most.

Cilic could have made it tough, but we know how that turned out.
 
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