Federer 50/50 in slam finals since 2008

Badabing888

Hall of Fame
Noticed a pattern/symmetry to Federer's conversion Slam finals since 2008 is 8 from 16. 2003-2007 he converted 12 from 14.

But the 8 from 16 - the pattern is pretty consistent: final losses and then matched by wins.

2008-2009 - 3 losses (FO 08, W 08, AO 09) but matched by 3 wins (USO 08, F0 09, W 09)
2009 - US0 final loss, but matched by AO 2010 win

2011 - FO 2011 loss; followed up by 2012 W win.

2014-15 - losses at W 2014, 2015 and USO 15; matched by wins at A017, W 2017, AO2018.

Conclusion if he does win any more slam finals, they are likely to be matched equally by final losses. Or no more slam finals - the symmetry since 2008 is complete.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
List out the names of Players he won against these finals and players against whom he lost these finals. You'll see a clear pattern there as well :)
I wouldn't s**t on the major opponent of my favorite player but that's just me. If Federer sucks so bad that means that Nadal sucks as well because he beat that sucker in multiple Slam finals.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Noticed a pattern/symmetry to Federer's conversion Slam finals since 2008 is 8 from 16. 2003-2007 he converted 12 from 14.

But the 8 from 16 - the pattern is pretty consistent: final losses and then matched by wins.

2008-2009 - 3 losses (FO 08, W 08, AO 09) but matched by 3 wins (USO 08, F0 09, W 09)
2009 - US0 final loss, but matched by AO 2010 win

2011 - FO 2011 loss; followed up by 2012 W win.

2014-15 - losses at W 2014, 2015 and USO 15; matched by wins at A017, W 2017, AO2018.

Conclusion if he does win any more slam finals, they are likely to be matched equally by final losses. Or no more slam finals - the symmetry since 2008 is complete.
He just loses finals to keep aesthetic symmetry patterns?
 
McEnroe as well.

Possible that Djoko is the start of a trend of players peaking later? Or maybe he'll turn out to be a one-off.
Djoko won his first slam relatively young but had lulls during his peak/prime -- 2009-2010 (similar to PETE after his first slam win) and 2012-2014 to a lesser extent when only won one slam a season while winning multiple in 2011 & 2015-16.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
I reassured an upset poster who had his "Weak era" thread deleted that a new one would be along soon.

If we Federer fans are running this forum and suppressing all debate we don't seem to be very efficient at it.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
haha.. and despite losing his prime at 26 he was no. 1 at 36 and was overwhelmingly favorite to win W.. such are the mysteries of Prime and Peak..
Are Djokodal passed their prime? Man the way they played at wimbledon I wouldn't be so sure. I think that people think that Nadal just woke up one day in 2014 and he was all of the sudden passed his prime. Ahahaha
 

Badabing888

Hall of Fame
List out the names of Players he won against these finals and players against whom he lost these finals. You'll see a clear pattern there as well :)
Won against: Murray x 3, Nadal, Soderling, Roddick, Cilic x 2.

Lost: Nadal x 4, Djokovic x 3, Del Potro.

Murray will be in the Hall of fame, as is Roddick, Cilic will also likely be included, and probably Rafa;). Not to be sneezed at.
Novak has also beaten Rafa 3 times in finals and also Murray 5 times - should we dismiss Novak’s wins v Murray?

Nads - wins v like Puerta, Ferrer, Anderson and Berdych also clearly point to a pattern of playing no hopers in the final - none of whom are likely to get into the Hall of fame.
 
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oldmanfan

Legend
4-9 in Slam finals against Nadal/Djokovic
16-1 against everyone else (choke against DelPo in 2009)

That says all you need to know.
and he almost had no wins on them since they turned 21.

The score would be 0-8 if he had lost the AO 17 fifth set.
Fact: Federer is 5-6yrs older than Djokodal, more than a full tennis generation.

Even ignoring their age differences, Fed's 4-9 vs. Djokodal in finals show that Djokodal is better than Fed in slam finals. It ALSO shows that Djokodal suck against the field, thus allowing 10+ slam finals that Fed play additionally (they weren't there to face him, yes?)

@Lew and @tarutani think that losing to mugs before even reaching slam finals is proof that Djokodal are better players than Fed, who makes finals and mainly ONLY loses to GOAT candidates in slam finals. ;)
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
Fact: Federer is 5-6yrs older than Djokodal, more than a full tennis generation.

Even ignoring their age differences, Fed's 4-9 vs. Djokodal in finals show that Djokodal is better than Fed in slam finals. It ALSO shows that Djokodal suck against the field, thus allowing 10+ slam finals that Fed play additionally (they weren't there to face him, yes?)

@Lew and @tarutani think that losing to mugs before even reaching slam finals is proof that Djokodal are better players than Fed, who makes finals and mainly ONLY loses to GOAT candidates in slam finals. ;)
I wonder if there is the same attitude in other sports? In English Premier League football, for instance, teams (and players) who can only perform against the top teams are referred to in rather derogatory terms "Let's see if they can do it on a cold winter's night in Burnley" is the usual catchphrase. My own team (Liverpool) have a very annoying tendency to do this - not even their most fanatical supporters regard this as other than a serious flaw.

Is it only in tennis that losing to someone who wouldn't normally be considered as good as you doesn't matter but losing to someone on your own level is some terrible stain on your reputation?
 

oldmanfan

Legend
I wonder if there is the same attitude in other sports? In English Premier League football, for instance, teams (and players) who can only perform against the top teams are referred to in rather derogatory terms "Let's see if they can do it on a cold winter's night in Burnley" is the usual catchphrase. My own team (Liverpool) have a very annoying tendency to do this - not even their most fanatical supporters regard this as other than a serious flaw.

Is it only in tennis that losing to someone who wouldn't normally be considered as good as you doesn't matter but losing to someone on your own level is some terrible stain on your reputation?
Good question. The Djokodal fans (not all of them) that use this to degrade Federer are very odd. It's like they feel the NEED to do it, and will find any angle to do so. Did Michael Jordan have this problem during his domination period? Fan or not, shouldn't people appreciate what Jordan was doing and what Federer is STILL doing?

The funny thing is that these same Djokodal fans (again, not all Djokodal fans) should be HAPPY that the circumstances allowed their favorite to even be in the conversation as much as Djokodal have been. Imagine swapping out Federer with one of Djokodal in age. Federer would be even more absurdly dominant (as hard as that is to imagine). The only reason Djokodal has a say at all in the GOAT debate is due to the 'pure luck' of being born 5-6yrs after Federer, and not the other way around. I mean, a 'half-retiree' 33-36yrs old Federer is still beating Djokodal plus the field, lol.

Any knock that can possibly be leveraged against Federer should be thrown into the trash can after witnessing Federer's 2017 season. After seeing Federer winning 3 of 5 slams he played at age 35-36, those same fans are better off staying quiet, not find 'angles' to gloat over him. :rolleyes:
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Fact: Federer is 5-6yrs older than Djokodal, more than a full tennis generation.

Even ignoring their age differences, Fed's 4-9 vs. Djokodal in finals show that Djokodal is better than Fed in slam finals. It ALSO shows that Djokodal suck against the field, thus allowing 10+ slam finals that Fed play additionally (they weren't there to face him, yes?)

@Lew and @tarutani think that losing to mugs before even reaching slam finals is proof that Djokodal are better players than Fed, who makes finals and mainly ONLY loses to GOAT candidates in slam finals. ;)
Wins against the rest of the field:

federer 90.3%
djokovic 90.1%
nadal 89.2%

Quite similar.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
I reassured an upset poster who had his "Weak era" thread deleted that a new one would be along soon.

If we Federer fans are running this forum and suppressing all debate we don't seem to be very efficient at it.
I don’t think the OP created this to bash Fed, it just turned out that way
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Surprised he even has 8 slams since then considering how much Rafa and Novak have OWNED him. Then again he got to feast in 08-10 with Rafa hurt and Nole still not in his prime so once again, follow the bread crumbs to the MUG opponents. 11-16 tells the real story.
 

Badabing888

Hall of Fame
I am a massive Fed fan, but just noticed this pattern/symmetry to his slam wins since 2008. And it’s been consistent for 10 years. Now, doesn’t mean that the past patterns will be repeated going forward, but still wouldn’t be surprised - so if Fed does lose another slam final, I won’t lose hope of him winning another one based on this pattern of slam finals.
 

Badabing888

Hall of Fame
Surprised he even has 8 slams since then considering how much Rafa and Novak have OWNED him. Then again he got to feast in 08-10 with Rafa hurt and Nole still not in his prime so once again, follow the bread crumbs to the MUG opponents. 11-16 tells the real story.
Or you could look at it this way:

Federer has beaten 12 different opponents in his slam final wins; lost to 3 different opponents.
Nadal - has beaten 9 different opponents; lost 3 different opponents in slam finals.
Djokovic - has beaten 5 different opponents in slam finals; lost to 4 different opponents in slam finals.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
Good question. The Djokodal fans (not all of them) that use this to degrade Federer are very odd. It's like they feel the NEED to do it, and will find any angle to do so. Did Michael Jordan have this problem during his domination period? Fan or not, shouldn't people appreciate what Jordan was doing and what Federer is STILL doing?

The funny thing is that these same Djokodal fans (again, not all Djokodal fans) should be HAPPY that the circumstances allowed their favorite to even be in the conversation as much as Djokodal have been. Imagine swapping out Federer with one of Djokodal in age. Federer would be even more absurdly dominant (as hard as that is to imagine). The only reason Djokodal has a say at all in the GOAT debate is due to the 'pure luck' of being born 5-6yrs after Federer, and not the other way around. I mean, a 'half-retiree' 33-36yrs old Federer is still beating Djokodal plus the field, lol.

Any knock that can possibly be leveraged against Federer should be thrown into the trash can after witnessing Federer's 2017 season. After seeing Federer winning 3 of 5 slams he played at age 35-36, those same fans are better off staying quiet, not find 'angles' to gloat over him. :rolleyes:
I remember during FO 2009 quite a lot of press comment after Djokovic and Murray had been knocked out was along the lines of "oh well, things couldn't be easier for Federer now" like that was somehow Federer's fault. Nadal's defeat in 09 actually gave quite a few players an opportunity since it happened in the fourth round and not a semi. Yet somehow Federer making the most of that opportunity by actually winning the tournament gets sneered at whilst those who spurned it have reputations intact.
 
He is still in the lead though, weak era this and that.. Guy has 20 Grand slams.. Even the reliable Elo adjusted Grand slam titles puts Federer in the lead.. Fed is at 19, Rafa at 18, and Novak at 15..

Federer played Grand Slams 73, Rafa and Novak 53.. we´ll see what happens when the bull and djoker get to 73 GS played..
Something tells me at least 10 out of those 20..will be split among those two.
 

davced1

Hall of Fame
Surprised he even has 8 slams since then considering how much Rafa and Novak have OWNED him. Then again he got to feast in 08-10 with Rafa hurt and Nole still not in his prime so once again, follow the bread crumbs to the MUG opponents. 11-16 tells the real story.
You seriously believe we should judge him based on how he performed past the age of 30?
 

Pheasant

Hall of Fame
I find it laughable that people are diminishing the accomplishments of an ATG like Fed. You would swear that these anti-Fed posters personally shredded Fed in a tennis match. Maybe I am missing something. Maybe it’s fun to shred ATG’s. Let me see if I am getting the hang of this.

Fed sucks. He won slams as early as 2003 and as late as 2018. He was lucky each time. This dude is an embarrassment not only to his own family, but also to all tennis fans in history.

Michael Jordan won 10 scoring titles because he played in a weak era. This dude was almost as lucky as Federer. MJ is a fricking joke of a player.

Jack Nicklaus had top-10 finishes in a major a whopping 38 years apart. But the reason that he won 18 majors is that he is weak era mug. Nicklaus sucks.

Hank Aaron lucked his way to 755 home runs. That dude is a scrub.

Greco Roman wrestler Aleksandr Karelin won a gold medal in 3 consecutive Olympics. He was undefeated for 13 consecutive years. However, American Rulon beat peak Karelin in the 2000 Olympics, which proves that Karelin was a weak-era punk. As a matter of fact, I bet that I could have kicked Karelin’s arse in a fight. What a weak era pansy. Rulon probably told the press the following after handing Karelin a loss for the first time in 13 years: “I told you that I would beat that weak-era punk’s arse. If I wrestled in his era, I wouldn’t allowed a single point in over a decade.”
 
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