RF20Lennon
Legend
Straight from Federer's wiki page "Many commentators and players regard Federer as the greatest tennis player of all time".
Many sports journalists pick Federer as the GOAT.
Federer 8-17 against Nadalovic at slams !!
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Straight from Federer's wiki page "Many commentators and players regard Federer as the greatest tennis player of all time".
Many sports journalists pick Federer as the GOAT.
mattosgrant
Banned
In fairness though many also pick Serena as the female tennis GOAT (perhaps even more than Federer now), and people on this board dismiss that as current player bias and promoting the game, yet then use that as "proof" Federer is the GOAT. So it is either one or the other, but use the same standard for both Roger and Serena.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Yeah that's fine but my post was just to counteract the claim that "nobody serious would pick Federer as GOAT" when many do! And Federer leads the slam count out of the men while Serena doesn't among the women.
mattosgrant
Banned
The slam count for men is completely misleading due to the pre Open Era situation. Federer would probably be at best 4th in the slam count otherwise. Of course that is subjective and impossible to prove but nobody (not even Federer fans) believe he would hold the record with 17 still. Laver, Rosewall, Gonzales, Tilden, at bare minimum would all have a good shot of having more slams than that, and atleast someone would probably be over 20.
The slam count for the women is more straightforward, but I don't think I need to remind you as you seem a serious tennis fan the unique asterisks around the marks of both Court and Graf, the only 2 women in front of her. So to many Serena's 21 is the most impressive as far as slam count goes, although slam count isn't the only thing. More impressive than 22 with a knife, and 24 with half my slams at the then local tier 4 event that gets 3 of the top 20 on average, officialy named a slam for some reason.
The slam count for the women is more straightforward, but I don't think I need to remind you as you seem a serious tennis fan the unique asterisks around the marks of both Court and Graf, the only 2 women in front of her. So to many Serena's 21 is the most impressive as far as slam count goes, although slam count isn't the only thing. More impressive than 22 with a knife, and 24 with half my slams at the then local tier 4 event that gets 3 of the top 20 on average, officialy named a slam for some reason.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Yeah good point! Maybe that's why it's better to split Open era from the rest. But at the end of the records are meant to be broken so the 17 will get broken eventually! As I think Serena will eventually break 22.
Djokodal Fan
Hall of Fame
Fed fans in Ruins in search of answers to counter actual facts!
someone made another indirect thread about weak era exploiter and its not gonna go well
someone made another indirect thread about weak era exploiter and its not gonna go well
mattosgrant
Banned
Yeah I agree with splitting Pre Open Era to Open Era and making them two separate groups entirely. As time goes on this will make more and more sense. While the womens situation isn't the same as the men, even their slam counts are misleading due to the Australian women of the 50-70s vulturing the Australian Nationals which somehow maintained status as the Australian Open. Australian Open even made Chris O Neill a slam champion, a women with a losing career record on the WTA tour and who didn't make it past the 2nd round of any other slam.
Good call. I apologise. There are indeed serous people considering Federer GOAT. However, my opinion is that he is not, which doesn't matter as my opinion is anyway irrelevant and insignificant.
RF20Lennon
Legend
That's fine! You are free to believe so I just wanted to make the point that there are serious credible people out there that believe Federer is GOAT
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
damn, dat feel when you realize the only reason Fed won USO 2007 was cuz Djoko choked away a million leads in the final
feelsbadman
feelsbadman
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Yes, I don't think GOAT means no one can beat you, right? It just means that you dominate the field more than any other player.
mattosgrant
Banned
The 2007 final was a lot like the 2015 final in a lot of ways except it was Novak who kept choking on break points, and in this case even a lot of set points, despite having so many chances. Ironic 8 years later it came full circle the other way around.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Yeah GOAT means you've won more titles more than anyone else and have the most records.
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
ye just rewatched some big highlights from the 2014 Wimby final
that was Fed's chance for number 18
vintage serving and some crisp plays
sucks man...
that was Fed's chance for number 18
vintage serving and some crisp plays
sucks man...
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
And who is evaluating Novak's performance in that period? No one here.
They've played more matches in the period were Novak's age is favored, and they've also been more evenly matched in that period.
Of course, that is too be expected, really, given the fact that Novak is an all-time great, and Roger is an all-time greaterer.
That's pushing it given that he was winning HC masters two years before this, and reaching off clay slams a year before this. That's being a contender.
He wasn't, though, at his very best on these surfaces during these years. And that's exactly my point. These kind of comparisons—as in the OP—are very much futile for the reasons that we lack the necessary material, and more so the fact that their best years didn't overlap where pertinent.
AngryBirds
Semi-Pro
Never use wikipedia in serious argument. Anyone can edit wiki content, including fed fans.
RF20Lennon
Legend
I agree! But this one actually provides links to various people that put Federer as GOAT. And we've all heard various commentators say it.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Wikipedia is pretty accurate (depending slightly on what the topic is), and has been found in some studies to be about as accurate as the Britannica.
Furthermore, it is actually used pretty often in "serious arguments", and one can always go in and check the sources used. Where proper sources haven't been provided, it is indeed bogus.
Fiero425
Legend
Wiki's been quite reliable of late! As for the GOAT moniker; been saying Fed's the "real" GOAT even though he has 1 and soon to be 2 players who put him underwater in the H2H record! With Nole you can probably give Fed some slack due to the age discrepancy, but with Rafa, there's more going on there than meets the eye! I never gave too much weight to Nadal's dominance on clay; esp. with his many avenues of "gamesmanship," but those grass-court final losses over the last several years have to be on Roger and Roger alone! He's handled Murray for the most part, but successive losses to Nole and Rafa over the last several years begins and ends with him IMO!
Hard to believe a decade ago, most would say Sampras was the GOAT; even without a FO final! He was totally getting a pass until Federer came along and routinely won 3 majors a season, losing the FO final several times to his nemesis Nadal! I was sorta disgusted when he played out of his mind to upset Nole in the semis in 2011 only to go down in flames with barely a whimper in the final! What was all that effort for? For the time being, Fed's the GOAT IMO with 17 majors! Not sure how Rafa can come back with any real consistency unless he goes back on "the juice!" Nole waited too long, but has gotten closer with 10 after winning this past USO! He can only win so many in the next several years with this crop of new bloods; though brittle physically! I give Nole 2 in '16, 2 in '17, at 1 in '18! Anything after that is gravy, but feel he'll come up short of Roger's 17 majors with all kinds of chances to equal Nadal and Sampras at 14! ;-)
Fiero425
Legend
I'm of a mind that it doesn't matter how many Serena finally winds up with; Martina's still the GOAT with her 59 "OPEN" majors! She could play and win with anyone and probably sacrificed some singles success due to the late hours and draining double's matches! She routinely won 2 majors at each event it seemed for a while and finally won all 3 at '87 USO! She has the "Box Set" as well unlike others that will remain nameless! ;-)
Rusty Shackleford
G.O.A.T.
For having mono he did great in 2008 then. And the mono also carried over to AO 2009, unfortunately.
Then, to top things off, Nadal's knees give out a few months later in RG 2009.
If it were not for injuries and diseases, Fedal would have continued ruling the top of men's tennis uninterruptedly until now, and beyond.
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