Federer and Nadal draw in Indian Wells

peRFection

Semi-Pro
Roger Federer — Indian Wells draw:

R1: Bye

R2: Seppi / Gojowczyk

R3: Wawrinka / Fucsovics

R4: Fognini / Edmund / Tiafoe

QF: Nishikori / Cilic / Shapovalov / Pouille

SF: Nadal / Isner / Medvedev / Khachanov

F: Djokovic / A.Zverev / Anderson



Rafael Nadal — Indian Wells draw:



R2: Donaldson / Qualifier

R3: Schwartzman / Harrison / RCB

R4: Medvedev / Goffin / McDonald / Kukushkin

QF: Isner / Khachanov / Berdych

SF: Federer / Cilic / Nishikori

F: Djokovic / A.Zverev / Anderson
 
Cilic is also having his worst year I remember, so not particularly difficult. Shapovalov and Pouille are also easy.

Nadal has Isner in the QF, who is playing better than the above mentioned.

I guess you pulled out your objectivity meter by making that statement Mr. Bickle, but I would still take Wawa over Schwarzman, Tiafoe over Goffin, and Cilic over Isner, thank you.

:cool:
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
I don't think there's really a way to have a strong draw right now.

Seeds 3-4: Clearly Federer is the harder one, but Zverev dangerous in BO3.
5-8: Anderson or Nishikori? (All weak)
9-12: Tsitsipas, clearly.
13-16: Raonic/Medvedev (eh...)
17-24: De Minaur, Monfils, Agut, Shapovalov? (Not too dangerous...)
25-32: Kyrgios

So what's the hardest draw?
F: Djokovic
SF: Federer
QF: Anderson
R16: Tsitsipas
R32: Kyrgios
R64: Whatever
R128: Bye/Virtual Bye
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Wawrinka is no joke but it's a lot better to draw him early than later. Meanwhile, Schwartzman is no HC master but he never gives Rafa an easy match.

Nishikori is like 1-9000 against the Big 4 but he can nonetheless be a PITA if he plays well, and Isner...while he has never beaten Nadal outside of exhibitions, he's not the kind of player that Nadal (or anyone for that matter) wants to play against...especially since Isner lives off tiebreaks and Nadal sucks at them.
 
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junior74

Bionic Poster
Nadal draw is a joke

Not really. Wawrinka is the most difficult opponent until SF for Federer.

I think their draws are about equally soft. Very few players are in good form. Perhaps Medvedev can do something against Nadal?

Slow conditions favour Nadal, so he wins if they reach the semis, IMO.
 
Tbh I'm not so sure about that anymore. It used to, certainly...

giphy.gif


:cool:
 
Ehhh I don’t mind to be honest. I expected him to have a garbage showing at the AO (which he did in the final), but making it to the final was good enough for me.

Hoping both Fed and Rafa make it; I’ve always wanted to see what a wheelchair battle royale would look like.

You missed the entire 2017?

:cool:
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Not really. Wawrinka is the most difficult opponent until SF for Federer.

I think their draws are about equally soft. Very few players are in good form. Perhaps Medvedev can do something against Nadal?

Slow conditions favour Nadal, so he wins if they reach the semis, IMO.
You sure IW is slow enough for Nadal? At his age, only very slow (aka clay) conditions favor him. In fact, all of his career only clay really favors him I would say.
 
You sure IW is slow enough for Nadal? At his age, only very slow (aka clay) conditions favor him. In fact, all of his career only clay really favors him I would sayn

Any conditions that allow him to position himself well for his shots are "slow enough".

That would work both for the speed of the court that doesn't allow for penetrating shots that expose Nadal's movement and high bounces that allow him to crank up his shots to a height were only the tallest players feel comfortable.

A couple of those on the tour, though.

:cool:
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Federer in a wheel chair, and Nadal still a robot with a syringe up his butt (as informed by Dr. Kyrgios).

:cool:
pretty sure rafa stopped being a robot years ago and besides, the real robot, nouveau robotovic is going to steamroll regardless of which geriatric manages to outlive the other

also I'm not sure where you want to take this exchange to?
 

junior74

Bionic Poster
You sure IW is slow enough for Nadal? At his age, only very slow (aka clay) conditions favor him. In fact, all of his career only clay really favors him I would say.

Casper Ruud, Rafa's young apprentice, said it was so slow, he couldn't put the ball away, and he came to IW directly from clay.

Also, the weather is said to be pretty cool, which slows down the ball in the air.

But, hey, my comment was mostly about the draws, which I agree with you are quite similar for the two :)
 
pretty sure rafa stopped being a robot years ago and besides, the real robot, nouveau robotovic is going to steamroll regardless of which geriatric manages to outlive the other

also I'm not sure where you want to take this exchange to?

Nadal is every bit a robot as before, just a bit slower.

I am not concerned about nouveau robotovic as Federer never gets out on court against him like Nadal did at AO2019.

We are talking about chances. What other purpose would our conversation have in the context of a thread about the draw?

:cool:
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Nadal is every bit a robot as before, just a bit slower.

I am not concerned about nouveau robotovic as Federer never gets out on court against him like Nadal did at AO2019.

We are talking about chances. What other purpose would our conversation have in the context of a thread about the draw?

:cool:
Fair enough. But if Rafa's a robot then he's a crappy one if he gets out on court the way he did at the AO F this year.

Don't think either draw is particularly easy for either of them at this point. On paper either player should get by until they meet each other, but they have to play against players who won't go down easy. In Fed's draw it's Wawrinka, for Nadal it's Schwartzman. Tiafoe could be tough against Fed, and Goffin potentially so against Nadal (based off their most recent matches at least anyway), but I'm sure neither Fed nor Rafa would mind swapping draws in that particular round if they could.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Any conditions that allow him to position himself well for his shots are "slow enough".

That would work both for the speed of the court that doesn't allow for penetrating shots that expose Nadal's movement and high bounces that allow him to crank up his shots to a height were only the tallest players feel comfortable.

A couple of those on the tour, though.

:cool:
I think every hard court favors Federer, since Federer is a better hard court player than Nadal.
 

chut

Professional
I guess you pulled out your objectivity meter by making that statement Mr. Bickle, but I would still take Wawa over Schwarzman, Tiafoe over Goffin, and Cilic over Isner, thank you.

:cool:

Wawrinka and Cilic over Schwarman and Isner, i'm with you, but Tiafoe over Goffin is going too far !
Those draws are about equal imo, both have reasonable chances to get to the SF. We'll see how it happens in real life.
 
Fair enough. But if Rafa's a robot then he's a crappy one if he gets out on court the way he did at the AO F this year.

Don't think either draw is particularly easy for either of them at this point. On paper either player should get by until they meet each other, but they have to play against players who won't go down easy. In Fed's draw it's Wawrinka, for Nadal it's Schwartzman. Tiafoe could be tough against Fed, and Goffin potentially so against Nadal (based off their most recent matches at least anyway), but I'm sure neither Fed nor Rafa would mind swapping draws in that particular round if they could.

The reports are about extremely slow conditions and that both is a disadvantage for Federer and an advantage to Nadal.

Especially agains Wawa, when Wawa can set up for his shots Federer is in for a huge dogfight and I am not confident that he will come out on top in the end. Tiafoe is dangerous because he is playing on his own turf and can also bring physicality to a match, which against Federer, if Federer had a huge match with Wawa can play a role. His next opponent could be potentially easier than Nadal's, but by that time he might not be there or extremely vulnerable, if Cilic plays well.

Nadal has Schwarzmann, who can play a physical game, but he has no weapons, and Nadal is in great physical shape to be concerned for the later rounds. Then Goffin, who is also lost against a player with weapons (David and Diego are not close only in first names), and he doesn't even have the advantage of great fitness. Isner is a big deal though. He plays on his home turf and his serve does damage even on the slowest surfaces. The thing is that Nadal has a clear strategy there: if he manages to return well Isner has already lost in such conditions.

All in all, Federer has the harder draw, and I expect him to fall before he meets Nadal if his opponents play to their current known level. Nadal will cruise in the earlier rounds, but, depending on how far he wants to go, we might see an "upset" against Isner or a showdown against someone from the other side of the draw.

The big unknown are the young guns, who are very inconsistent in their form and can get hot or just totally disappoint in less than ideal conditions.

:cool:
 
Wawrinka and Cilic over Schwarman and Isner, i'm with you, but Tiafoe over Goffin is going too far !
Those draws are about equal imo, both have reasonable chances to get to the SF. We'll see how it happens in real life.

Tiafoe is playing on his own turf and plays a very unorthodox game, which has more potential for an upset than Goffin, who is bland as boiled potatoes. He can also bring a lot of physicality to a match, and in slow conditions it can play a role.

We will see, I guess. The draws almost never turn out as the seedings suggest in the earlier rounds.

:cool:
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Wawrinka and Cilic over Schwarman and Isner, i'm with you, but Tiafoe over Goffin is going too far !
Those draws are about equal imo, both have reasonable chances to get to the SF. We'll see how it happens in real life.
1. Cilic is not even top 10 while Isner is top 10. Cilic is having his worst year since 2014 and is losing early in every tournament he enters. So Isner currently is in better shape.

2. What makes you ASSUME Cilic will be the rival and not Nishikori? Nishikori is also proyected in Federer's QF, so you can't just assume Cilic will be Federer's rival just to suit your argument.
 
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Azure

G.O.A.T.
Hoping to see Tsitsipas continuing on some good form. Considering that the conditions are slower, might not really favour him. A change from the big three to the young guys at a Masters level would be incredible.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Federer is the best FAST hardcourt player
Djokovic likes it slower
Rafa loves the clay unless it’s 2013 all over again his best ever year on hardcourts
Federer is a better hard court player than Nadal overall, not only on the fastest hard courts.

AO: 6 > 1.
USO: 5 > 3.
IW: 5 > 3.
Miami: 4 > 0.

(Notw how IW and Miami are not among the fastest hard courts as compared with Paris-Bercy or Shanghai).
 

JasonG2019

Rookie
Federer is a better hard court player than Nadal overall, not only on faster hard courts.

AO: 6 > 1.
USO: 5 > 3.
IW: 5 > 3.
Miami: 4 > 0.
Federer likes it faster that’s when he’s in control but 2013 is still on my mind Rafa the clay king undefeated on hardcourts must still haunt some fans who think little of Rafa on hardcourts
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Not really. Wawrinka is the most difficult opponent until SF for Federer.

I think their draws are about equally soft. Very few players are in good form. Perhaps Medvedev can do something against Nadal?

Slow conditions favour Nadal, so he wins if they reach the semis, IMO.
Actually, Nadal might win because Federer is not playing as well as 2017-early 2018, not because of slow conditions.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
What the hell is wrong with you? I was just answering Tennis Hands, not going into full analysis of the draw, that was rather clear.
I stand by my point that Isner is less dangerous than Cilic. And Nishikori is also more dangerous than Isner, so i don't see how it is supposed to "suit my argument"?
Nishikori is no more dangerous than Isner, nor is Cilic based in current form (Cilic is out of the top 10 and losing early on every tournament). Nishikori has no weapons, at least Isner has the serve.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Actually, Nadal might win because Federer is not playing as well as 2017-early 2018, not because of slow conditions.
Nor is Nadal playing as well as in 2013 or first half of 2018. Everybody gets older.

On point, based on current form, I think Federer is the favorite over Nadal. Nadal lost to Kyrgios and Federer has destroyed Kyrgios in their last 2 hard court meetings.
 
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