Federer and Nadal's decline after achieving the Career Slam

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celoft

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After Federer completed the Career Slam(FO 2009), he has ONLY won 2 slams(Wimbledon 2009 and AO 2010).

Nadal has won just 1 slam(FO 2011) after completing the Career Slam(USO 2010). MOTWYW...

Seems like after passing all the courses, winning all 4 slams, the motivation has gone down for these 2 players.
 
Its easy to see why Fed has lost motivation.. But the slam count for Rafa is still there to achieve and trying to get some big wins back from Nole. He should still be motivated IMO. But they should be declining by now.. Both have been in the top 2 positions or 3 for 6 years or over. Thats a long time
 
I don't think their desire has changed at all, the rise of the Djoker had a little to do with both of their slides, but if it weren't for his insane year, both of them would have won more slams this year.
 
celoft said:
After Federer completed the Career Slam(FO 2009), he has ONLY won 2 slams(Wimbledon 2009 and AO 2010).

Nadal has won just 1 slam(FO 2011) after completing the Career Slam(USO 2010). MOTWYW...

Seems like after passing all the courses, winning all 4 slams, the motivation has gone down for these 2 players.
Click to expand...

Doesn't just have to be the career slam. Look at post-'84 McEnroe, post-'88 Wilander, post-'89 Becker, post-'93 Courier. All guys who were in their prime, with 25(?) slams between them. Yet out of them all, after their respective banner years only Becker even reached another GS [singles] final.


Cesc Fabregas said:
Nobody expected Djokovic's year. Nadal would have won 3 slams and a **** load of Masters if not for Djokovic.
Click to expand...

Works both ways. What would Federer have achieved without Nadal?


Regards,
MDL
 
celoft said:
After Federer completed the Career Slam(FO 2009), he has ONLY won 2 slams(Wimbledon 2009 and AO 2010).

Nadal has won just 1 slam(FO 2011) after completing the Career Slam(USO 2010). MOTWYW...

Seems like after passing all the courses, winning all 4 slams, the motivation has gone down for these 2 players.
Click to expand...

(Nadal made more finals this year than any other year of his career. So what is this decline you are talking about? The only player Nadal lost to in finals was Djokovic. So are you trying to take credit away from Djokovic? Nadal losing to Djokovic means Nadal is 'declining' and that Djokovic did not improve?)
 
jokinla said:
I don't think their desire has changed at all, the rise of the Djoker had a little to do with both of their slides, but if it weren't for his insane year, both of them would have won more slams this year.
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Well Fed's slide has been pretty imminent since 2008 or so. Though in 2009 he did reach the final of every slam but still alot of his faculties declined except for the serve ( which is pretty much the last thing to go). Nadal's season has been consistent but his level has declined though regardless of Nole. He's slower, his BH has decline considerably, his serve has regressed, he got sick, had foot problems again. Nothing like he looked last year.
 
(Nadal looked slower at Wimbledon this year than 2010, because he wasn't sure of his footing due to the incident vs Del Potro. But Nadal at RG 2011 looked just as fast or even faster than RG 2010. I mean Nadal played a more defensive style in 2011 which required more running than ever. He beat Federer with retrieving skills alone, at RG 2011.

And at the US Open, 2010 he was on top in the rallies more, and did not require his retrieving skills quite as much as 2011. 2011 US Open, just like RG, was a more defensive Nadal and therefore we saw more jaw-dropping examples of quickness than in 2010. So overall, I don't see any evidence of Nadal slowing down, if anything he was more impressive this year in that department, by necessity)
 
BULLZ1LLA said:
(Nadal looked slower at Wimbledon this year than 2010, because he wasn't sure of his footing due to the incident vs Del Potro. But Nadal at RG 2011 looked just as fast or even faster than RG 2010. I mean Nadal played a more defensive style in 2011 which required more running than ever. He beat Federer with retrieving skills alone, at RG 2011.
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Rafa looked terrible (by his clay standards) in RG 2011 and it wasn't even debatable.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Not in the final though, I think that's what BZ means. Rafa was defending like 2005 in that final, it was impressive.
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I have to disagree.

While supposedly in his clay prime:

-he had SP against him by a 30 year old matchup that he can exploit. If this was 2006 Fed I could understand but as it is, it doesn't reflect well on Rafa's form.

-got taken to a tiebreaker in the second set after trading breaks(Rafa was up a break, got broken to make it 4-4, broke Roger again for 5-4 and failed again to convert making it 5-5). Couple of points here and there and Fed could have been leading 2 sets to nothing.

-let the third set slip away from him after being the first to break. Fed broke him back for 3-4 and later for 6-5, Roger winning the set 7-5.

-in the fourth set, Roger's resources looked to be thinning and Rafa pounced.

To conclude, this wasn't a good RG final by Rafa, not by a longshot. Federer could have easily been two sets up if he didn't crap on himself after that missed SP but even with that mental hurdle from the first set, he still managed to keep it competitive with "prime Rafa" in sets 2 and 3.

And you and I both know it's a whole different ball game if Fed wins that first set. Rafa managed to look shaky even while leading Roger for most of this match, how would he have looked while staring at a deficit, especially in that mediocre playing form?
 
namelessone said:
I have to disagree.

While supposedly in his clay prime:

-he had SP against him by a 30 year old matchup that he can exploit. If this was 2006 Fed I could understand but as it is, it doesn't reflect well on Rafa's form.

-got taken to a tiebreaker in the second set after trading breaks(Rafa was up a break, got broken to make it 4-4, broke Roger again for 5-4 and failed again to convert making it 5-5). Couple of points here and there and Fed could have been leading 2 sets to nothing.

-let the third set slip away from him after being the first to break. Fed broke him back for 3-4 and later for 6-5, Roger winning the set 7-5.

-in the fourth set, Roger's resources looked to be thinning and Rafa pounced.

To conclude, this wasn't a good RG final by Rafa, not by a longshot. Federer could have easily been two sets up if he didn't crap on himself after that missed SP but even with that mental hurdle from the first set, he still managed to keep it competitive with "prime Rafa" in sets 2 and 3.

And you and I both know it's a whole different ball game if Fed wins that first set. Rafa managed to look shaky even while leading Roger for most of this match, how would he have looked while staring at a deficit, especially in that mediocre playing form?
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I was amazed he lost the 3rd set AFTER being up a break and up 2 sets to love. That was lolzworthy stuff right there. I thought he looked REALLY good in the 4th set, but then that may have been a combination of him going for the kill + Fed starting to slow down.
 
(A lot of people were blinded by the Federer hype at Roland Garros 2011. I guess they were comparing it to 2008 when he only won 4 games. As it turned out though, there are not a lot of positives for Federer to take out of the 2011 meeting. Of their 5 meetings at Roland Garros, 4 of them went to 4 sets. Here are some facts regarding those 4 matches:

- 2011 is the most lopsided 4th set [6-1], so Federer was closer to stretching it into a 5th set in the other 3 meetings.

- the other 4th set scores are.....2005 6-3.....2006 7-6(4).....2007 6-4.

- the set Federer won in 2011 [7-5] was the most unconvincing set he's won over Nadal at Roland Garros.

- the other sets Federer had won over Nadal at Roland Garros are.....2005 6-4.....2006 6-1.....2007 6-4.

- points won in each of their meetings at Roland Garros.....2011 Nadal 52%.....2007 Nadal 53%.....2006 Nadal 52%.....2005 Nadal 52%.....the only deviation was 2008 Nadal 63%.

- Federer's break points converted in each meeting.....2011 5/15.....2008 1/4.....2007 1/17.....2006 3/10.....2005 6/12.

So as you can see, there as absolutely nothing statistically pointing to Federer being any closer to Nadal in 2011 than in 2005, 2006, 2007. 2008 is the only year which gives Federer some positives by comparison)
 
BULLZ1LLA said:
(A lot of people were blinded by the Federer hype at Roland Garros 2011. I guess they were comparing it to 2008 when he only won 4 games. As it turned out though, there are not a lot of positives for Federer to take out of the 2011 meeting. Of their 5 meetings at Roland Garros, 4 of them went to 4 sets. Here are some facts regarding those 4 matches:

- 2011 is the most lopsided 4th set [6-1], so Federer was closer to stretching it into a 5th set in the other 3 meetings.

- the other 4th set scores are.....2005 6-3.....2006 7-6(4).....2007 6-4.

- the set Federer won in 2011 [7-5] was the most unconvincing set he's won over Nadal at Roland Garros.

- the other sets Federer had won over Nadal at Roland Garros are.....2005 6-4.....2006 6-1.....2007 6-4.

- points won in each of their meetings at Roland Garros.....2011 Nadal 52%.....2007 Nadal 53%.....2006 Nadal 52%.....2005 Nadal 52%.....the only deviation was 2008 Nadal 63%.

- Federer's break points converted in each meeting.....2011 5/15.....2008 1/4.....2007 1/17.....2006 3/10.....2005 6/12.

So as you can see, there as absolutely nothing statistically pointing to Federer being any closer to Nadal in 2011 than in 2005, 2006, 2007. 2008 is the only year which gives Federer some positives by comparison)
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you. Fed was playing well though and wanted to prove he could beat Rafa there. Rafa didn't play his best but as I said, his DEFENSE was astounding in that match. Absolutely sick.
 
MichaelNadal said:
I have to agree with you. Fed was playing well though and wanted to prove he could beat Rafa there. Rafa didn't play his best but as I said, his DEFENSE was astounding in that match. Absolutely sick.
Click to expand...

(I agree, most entertaining defense I've ever seen. Especially from 2-5 in the 1st set. That was a fun sequence)
 
Nadal's defense was great in the FO final, but he got a taste of his own medicine when Djoker did the same to him in W and USO.
 
BULLZ1LLA said:
(True, although I think Djokovic got hurt a lot more in the US Open final than Nadal)
Click to expand...

Maybe he did, it was good thing for him that was the final and not the semi. It was a true battle. Sometimes that is the price you pay.
 
What ifs are hopeless. Just go down that road with Borg. If he hadn't burned out so quickly, the collective may then consider him as the so called "greatest" of "all time," and not Federer. You can do that with anyone, really. Seles is a great example.
Back on topic, I don't think its been long enough, especially for Nadal, to blame his and Fed's declines on contentedness after achieving the Grand Slam. Nadal's battled lots of sickness and injuries, and Fed's a dad now. There are way too many factors to blame it on the GS.
 
celoft said:
After Federer completed the Career Slam(FO 2009), he has ONLY won 2 slams(Wimbledon 2009 and AO 2010).

Nadal has won just 1 slam(FO 2011) after completing the Career Slam(USO 2010). MOTWYW...

Seems like after passing all the courses, winning all 4 slams, the motivation has gone down for these 2 players.
Click to expand...

Yep, Nadal reaching 3 slam finals this year and his 2nd ever US open final prove he wasn't trying enough :confused:
 
billnepill said:
Yep, Nadal reaching 3 slam finals this year and his 2nd ever US open final prove he wasn't trying enough :confused:
Click to expand...

So what?

Federer reached ALL 4 slam finals in 2009(Federer's 7th consecutive year winning at least 1 slam) and he only won 1 slam after that.

2011 is Nadal's 7th consecutive year winning at least 1 slam. MOTWYW.
 
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(Nice, so Nadal in 2012 will own the all-time record for consecutive years with a slam. He has a good shot at more too, would be huge if he could reach 10 straight years. It's an ironic situation for a player people thought would retire young)
 
BULLZ1LLA said:
(Nice, so Nadal in 2012 will own the all-time record for consecutive years with a slam. He has a good shot at more too, would be huge if he could reach 10 straight years. It's an ironic situation for a player people thought would retire young)
Click to expand...

Federer: 8 consecutive years
Sampras: 8 consecutive years
Borg: 8 consecutive years
Nadal: 7 consecutive years.

If Nadal wins a slam next year, he'll tie the record, not "own" it.
 
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BULLZ1LLA said:
(Nice, so Nadal in 2012 will own the all-time record for consecutive years with a slam. He has a good shot at more too, would be huge if he could reach 10 straight years. It's an ironic situation for a player people thought would retire young)
Click to expand...

Nope. 2012 would be Nadal's eight consecutive year winning a slam. That is the record. Borg(1974-1981), Sampras(1993-2000) and Fed(2003-2010) have it.
 
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BULLZ1LLA said:
(Nice, so Nadal in 2012 will own the all-time record for consecutive years with a slam. He has a good shot at more too, would be huge if he could reach 10 straight years. It's an ironic situation for a player people thought would retire young)
Click to expand...


No he won't. You need to accept that Nadal will not beat the odds and win more slams. If Roger could not do it,Nadal won't. You know that,you're just trolling.
 
(I'm sure Nadal will get the record then, 2 more years of winning AO, RG, WIM or USO, no problem. The only obstacle is Djokovic, and he can't even beat Federer at RG)
 
Set Sampras said:
Its easy to see why Fed has lost motivation.. But the slam count for Rafa is still there to achieve and trying to get some big wins back from Nole. He should still be motivated IMO. But they should be declining by now.. Both have been in the top 2 positions or 3 for 6 years or over. Thats a long time
Click to expand...

"Should" is different from reality. We don't know what is going through Nadal's or Federer's mind right now. I think that Nadal accomplished the majority of what he wanted to. He has a career slam, double digits, ruled over one of the supposed "GOATs" all while every said he could never do it.

****s will have to accept that slams aren't everything.
 
jackson vile said:
"Should" is different from reality. We don't know what is going through Nadal's or Federer's mind right now. I think that Nadal accomplished the majority of what he wanted to. He has a career slam, double digits, ruled over one of the supposed "GOATs" all while every said he could never do it.

****s will have to accept that slams aren't everything.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Just to add, Federer has redefined the term record breaker, he's forgotten more his records than others have ever made. Getting countless records, the career slam, the most slams, and beating the dominant guy of 2011 in a slam while hitting 30. The same dominant player who destroyed another legend six times in six meetings across all surfaces.

Nards will have to accept that H2H arren't everything.
 
(Nadal will win at least 2 slams per year for the next 3 years. Goodbye Federer's record,
Main_Nadal.jpg

hello Nadal's record)
 
Nadal will obviously get 17 slams, 'cause 7 slams are just a given these days with Djokovic competing, right?@!1!
 
ledwix said:
Nadal will obviously get 17 slams, 'cause 7 slams are just a given these days with Djokovic competing, right?@!1!
Click to expand...

(If Djokovic keeps struggling so much against Federer in slams, it won't matter what Djokovic does vs Nadal, Nadal will be winning 2 slams per year)
 
TopFH said:
And how do you know Nadal will even get to the finals of every slam?
Click to expand...

(I never said I "knew" but it is my opinion because Nadal has made 6 of the last 7 GS finals and it is due to him having the upper hand over Murray on all surfaces for the first time since 2007, and reclaiming dominance over Del Potro, and the fact that Nadal is better on hardcourt than ever before, and 2 of the slams are hardcourt so that helps.

The odds are heavily in Nadal's favor now of making the final in each slam. Even at the AO this year, he won 12 straight sets, did not drop a set until the injury, and that was despite facing the heaviest pressure in tennis history - THE RAFA SLAM)
 
RG is faster than ever before and the Babolat balls they are using since this year are perfect for Federer, they are light and fast. Going forward, RG will be Federer's greatest chance to win a slam in the future. Same can be said for Nadal. RG will be the hardest slam to win for Djokovic. He has to wait for Fedal to become useless and a non-factor which will be the case in 2013 anyway.
 
celoft said:
RG is faster than ever before and the Babolat balls they are using since this year are perfect for Federer, they are light and fast. Going forward, RG will be Federer's greatest chance to win a slam in the future. Same can be said for Nadal. RG will be the hardest slam to win for Djokovic. He has to wait for Fedal to become useless and a non-factor which will be the case in 2013 anyway.
Click to expand...


No way. Cvac can and will win RG next year without a doubt. I don't understand why you think it will be the hardest for him to win? Has he not beaten the so-called clay goat more than once on clay just this year?
 
Clarky21 said:
No way. Cvac can and will win RG next year without a doubt. I don't understand why you think it will be the hardest for him to win? Has he not beaten the so-called clay goat more than once on clay just this year?
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I predict Fedal will win RG next year. Fedal means either Federer or Nadal. Mark my words. Would be awesome for Federer to have 2 Career Slams. Like Laver and Emerson.
 
celoft said:
I predict Fedal will win RG next year. Fedal means either Federer or Nadal. Mark my words. Would be awesome for Federer to have 2 Career Slams. Like Laver and Emerson.
Click to expand...

(Clay is the last surface Nadal would lose to Federer on. US Open I suspect would be their closest surface, or Australian Open where they played an extremely close match in 2009. Wimbledon, I have doubts, now that Federer's worst results have been at Wimbledon the last 2 years. Roland Garros, the gap is the same as it's always been, or same as 2005, 2006 and 2007.

Despite the oven of pressure Nadal faced this year in tying Borg's record, 2011 may actually have been Nadal's most lopsided win over Federer at Roland Garros, apart from 2008. This year the 4th set was 6-1, and that is easier than the 3 other 4th sets they've played at RG. So Federer has never been further from stretching it into a 5th set.

And the set Federer won this year was 7-5, the most unconvincing set Federer has sever won over Nadal at RG.

2011.....7-5 7-6[3] 5-7 6-1
2008.....6-1 6-3 6-0
2007.....6-3 4-6 6-3 6-4
2006.....1-6 6-1 6-4 7-6[4]
2005.....6-3 4-6 6-4 6-3

Points won:
2011.....Nadal 52%
2008.....Nadal 63%
2007.....Nadal 53%
2006.....Nadal 52%
2005.....Nadal 52%

Federer break points converted:
2011.....5/15
2008.....1/4
2007.....1/17
2006.....3/10
2005.....6/12

RafaNadal.jpg

)
 
celoft said:
RG is faster than ever before and the Babolat balls they are using since this year are perfect for Federer, they are light and fast. Going forward, RG will be Federer's greatest chance to win a slam in the future. Same can be said for Nadal. RG will be the hardest slam to win for Djokovic. He has to wait for Fedal to become useless and a non-factor which will be the case in 2013 anyway.
Click to expand...

The hardest slam for Djokovic will always be Wimbledon. He'd really struggle if it wasn't for the change of speed over the years.

Djokovic's favorite/best majors:

AO>USO>FO>SW19
 
tennis_pro said:
The hardest slam for Djokovic will always be Wimbledon. He'd really struggle if it wasn't for the change of speed over the years.

Djokovic's favorite/best majors:

AO>USO>FO>SW19
Click to expand...

(I agree with that. Even though Nadal feels like he did better vs Djokovic at US Open this year than at Wimbledon, Nadal did win a set 6-1 at Wimbledon and was very much in the 4th set)
 
Federer's worst slam is now Wimbledon... 2 QFs losses to Berdych and Tsonga.:( Not cool.

Who's going to stop Djokovic at Wimbledon? Nobody.
 
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