Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by ART ART, Jun 11, 2006.
Do you believe that Pete also used this "PS 6.0 90" against Ginepri?
It looks like it:
By the way, it's a cool Sampras site to browse:
Sampras did say that he was going to use the same racquet that Federer uses, although he didn't know what it's called (perhaps he just didn't want to say that it's a PS 6.0 90?)
So, yes, I believe Sampras also used a PS 6.0 90 with the nCode paintjob against Ginepri, just like Federer's.
Dont you think Pete wouldn't mind using an nCode just for an exibition that doesnt count for anything and won't create a ton of publicity?
Why, if Wilson can easily just give hime some of the same racquets that Federer uses? Even though it was just an exhibition, you can tell that Sampras still wated to win it. Once a competitive champion, always a competitve champion.
Because he didn't have the Wilson stencil, I don't think he had a deal with Wilson. And if has no deal, I don't see how he'd get these top secret racquets.
Nate Ferguson might be a good link. Regardless, I'm sure the people at Wilson felt so endangered that Sampras didn't use a stencil in a cruddy USTA.com-broadcast match.
Seriously? You don't think that one phone call from the 14-time Grand Slam champion that helped them sell millions of ProStaffs would get the folks at Wilson scrambling to get Pete some of the same racquets that Federer uses?
Come on now.
from what i heard pete was using a stock ncode 90 just with the handle shortened
i personally wish he would pull out the tour 90
b.c we have seen pics of him actually using the real racket but i guess its to late for that stick
I just noticed the shorter pallet in the pic, so I stand corrected once again! Any pics of the more open string pattern?
The End Already
You can't just shorten the grip like that, it has to have a different mold in order to get that, as in a regular n6.1 90 that space would have foam there
And if the foam was removed there would just be a void there, the racket shaft does not come all the way downt he handle.
So, the frame was stock except for custom w/b/sw (visible lead tape) and...a different mold with a shorter handle poured?
Back to the original topic
I still wouldn't call ART ART's post "definitive proof".
are you serious... cuz i dont believe that. however, lots of changes that we keep talking about happen after enough people talk about them on these boards, so it just might be true.. sweet... lol
I always thought Sampras & Wilson weren't on the best of terms b/c he refused to use a paintjob... I remember reading somewhere that Sampras chose to forego millions of dollars in sponsorship money b/c he refused to change his racquet (well at least, the paint). So who knows what they'll do for him now w/o a contract. If I were Wilson, sure I'd give him anything he asks for though!
so just start a We want a ps 6.0 90 thread and not federer uses a ps 6.0 90 thread.
I've been trying to avoid doing this because of the inherently subjective nature of playtesting racquets that are visually dissimilar. Also, I can barely feel the difference in play between the HPS Tour 90 and the nSix-One Tour 90.
However, there are a few other players I know who use either the HPS Tour 90 or the nSix-One Tour 90. The better (more more difficult) way of doing this test would be to string up a retail HPS Tour 90, an nSix-One Tour 90, and Federer's racquet with the same string at the same tension using the same stringing pattern, and then get the group together for a hitting session.
I'll work on it, but don't hold your breath.
That would certainly add to our knowledge of Roger's frame.
Thanks Greg, I'm sure everyone would be greatly appreciative of that.
I was also thinking that another possibility why they cannot make a new 6.0 85/90 is because of some technology or methods or whatever(ie can't stiff in a certain area) that have been patented by another manufacturer. So they have to get around that by making the nCode with a different method or result.
And of course the patent wouldn't apply to the old 6.0 85 because it was designed before the technology was patented.
aside: I remember reading some 10 yrs ago that Prince(?) had to pull some of their racquets off the shelves due to patent infringements. Anyone remember more clearly?
Thanks, Greg!! That would be excellent and greatly appreciated!!
However, if it's at all possible, it would be great to also add a PS 6.0 85 Original to the mix. This is because our theory is that Federer's racquet feels more like the PS 6.0 85 (the racquet he used for a long time, China version) than either the HPS Tour 90 or the nSix-One Tour 90. The HPS Tour 90 contains HyperCarbon and the nSix-One Tour contains both HyperCarbon and nCoded material, but the PS 6.0 85 is made of only 80% graphite and 20% kevlar, which we believe, is what Federer's racquet is also made of (i.e., no HyperCarbon nor nCode).
Thanks again, and we look forward to the results!
I don't have access to every version of the Pro Staff 6.0 ever made, but I do have a Pro Staff 6.0 Midsize 85, which as far as I know came out after the St. Vincent model. If I remember correctly, our Pro Staff 6.0 Midsize 85 has a bumperguard similar to the St. Vincent version that Sampras used, although I don't remember how long the pallet is. If that is satisfactory, I'll throw it into the mix, but even I can tell the difference between that racquet and the later Tour 90s. If Federer's racquet feels like that, I'll be stunned.
It also occurs to me that I should put the same overgrip on each racquet, too.
By the way, I've already spoken with one member of my "test group," and he's amenable. Like I said, though, don't hold your breath. There are a lot of things I have to do to complete this playtest.
That would be great, Greg!! Thanks for your time and effort in helping to solve this "mystery" (or is it "conspiracy theory"? LOL).
I'm pretty sure Federer used the China version of the PS 6.0 85, but whatever version you have should suffice. BTW, it sounds like you have a China version anyway if it says "ProStaff 6.0" on one side of the throat and has a code that starts with "G" on the butt cap.
I checked this thread a while back and it said Fed uses a PS 6.0 90...did this change? I think I may have skipped it over while scanning the posts...
In terms of cosmetized Pro Staffs, we have a Pro Staff 6.0 Midsize 85 -- which has a slightly shiny finish and a bumperguard -- and a Pro Staff Midsize, which IIRC has a more matte finish and does not have a bumperguard. You can see the specs for each here (in the section on Sampras' racquet):
We also have a motley assortment of Pro Staffs in black, but I don't want to get into that bag of worms, but I'll be happy to use either of the non-Sampras Pro Staffs we have in the test. Just let me know.
I think the ProStaff 6.0 with the shiny finish and the bumperguard is the best bet. That sounds most like the one Federer used to use. He never did use the Sampras' St. Vincent version. The other one that you have that just says "ProStaff Midsize" and has the matte finish and no bumperguard is either a Chicago version or an early St. Vincent.
So I think just putting the first one (w/bumperguard) into the mix is enough to give you guys a good indication of how it feels compared to the other racquets in the playtest.
Hmm, I think it would be best to include a more recent China 6.0 85 (all China 6.0 85 frames came with bumpers), as that's what Federer seemingly used and what is supposedly the basis of Federer's current frame. Some of the older non-China frames have specs all over the place; hence, more variables in the way. To tell if it's a China 6.0 85, the bottom of the throat right above the neck should be wider to more easily allow the frame to be spun around a finger. Trying to do that with any of the older frames will snap your finger off. Ouch!
It's funny, I currently use the nCode 90 precisely because I have alway assumed that it is pretty much just a ProStaff with a 90 square inch head. I'm sure it's a little bit lighter, but I actually like the balance it has (modified just a touch).
I don't really buy into the whole nCode technology thing. Same with the 95 inch version. I just tend to assume that it is really the same old ProStaff 6.1 with a new paintjob. Again, probably a smidge difference on the weight, but I'm always going to modify the weight of a racquet a bit anyway.
I think these "what racquet is he using" posts get a little old after a while. I do pay close attention to accurate racquet spec information of the pros when I am able to find it. I do think there is a lot to learn from the way the set up their equipment. But ultimately, I am aware that I must set up my racquet in a way that works for me. What they are selling at the stores is really just a starting point--that's the way I look at it. I'm almost always going to add weight to the head of whatever I buy. Not always a lot, but some.
If there is one thing that pro racquet setups tell me (at least), it's that there is no such thing as the perfect setup. What works for one person isn't going to work for another. At some point, you just have to buy one and learn to swing it.
Yes, but if the set-up that you want is 80% graphite/20% kevlar, how do you extract the HyperCarbon and nCoded materials out of your nCode 90?
I don't think we have one, but I may know a player who has a couple. I'll see if I can borrow one somewhere.
Thanks for solving this mystery. Now perhaps we will all sleep better at night.
This ART ART dude smells fake.
But I still think he's using a 80% Graphite 20% Kevlar racquet.
I can't belive TD plays with a racket like that, he must hit some heavy spin, I sure would not want to return a serve from him:|
One thing is not to believe in this info that I give you all, but other thing is to doubt my person, and this I do not admit !
Just come to Wimbledon this next 2 weeks and we will meet here, and then you can tell on my face whatever you want.
If you send me a ticket to Wimbledon, I'll believe you!
thanks for sharing this information. tht racket is completly different to the 1 tht he is meant to have.
so if this IS true...
then Federer started using the PS 6.0 85 about 8-9 years ago. That dates to 1997-1998 when the frames were made in Taiwan, I believe (and maybe even Chicago?). When he came on tour, Fed's 6.0 85s had a black/red butt cap suggesting that they were Chinese, but this may have been a marketing issue. Perhaps his frames were actually from Taiwan??
When Wilson introduced the PS Tour 90, perhaps they were using the original PS 90 molds from the early 80s. I've heard that this was what Cayman used for the TNT 90, which they reportedly bought from Wilson when Wilson opted to only introduce the St. Vincent PS midsize to the public. Wilson made the Pro Staff midsize in the early-mid 80s and (I believe) Chris Evert used it before Sampras, Courier and Edberg. I've heard and read that Wilson had molds for an 85, a 100 and a funky looking 125sq in frame, so they decided against coming to market with a St. Vincent Pro Staff 90 in favor of the 85, and that molds went to Taiwan (maybe to Cayman?), hence the TNT 90 with its PWS "weights."
If anyone knows the history better and/or if this is mistaken or (in the alternative) somewhat accurate, please advise. If I'm close, maybe Fed still likes the Taiwan PS mold better than the Chinese versions, which is why he's using custom racquets (maybe older ones?). This reminds me of Sampras and the PS 85, and stories that he went to St. Vincent and brought back all that he could find. Yes, I know that there are other threads on this BUT I'm curious if it's true that Wilson had molds for 90sq in versions of the venerable Pro Staff from the St. Vincent era, and if Cayman bought them. Anyone out there with the skinny?
Wilson stopped making ProStaffs in Taiwan in 1994 and transferred all production to China at that time. So as far as I know, Federer has always used the China version of the PS 6.0 85.
Thanks for the clarification
I bought PS 85s after 1994 with the white/red butt caps that I thought were from Taiwan. Was able to buy a matched pair in 1999 in Chicago that were made there as well, from a dealer who used to (and may still) test frames and strings for Wilson...
Do you know anything about the Cayman production?
All I know about the Cayman TNT-90 is from reading this thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=103753
I didn't even know they existed before seeing them in that thread.
Anyone notice the sound the raqcuets make when he hits the ball....Since he started using this ncode paintjob, his shots have sounded more muted, especially when compared with the prostaff Tour 90 he used. Compared this from some tape at the Australian Open and US Open....could be my imagination though.
I have a cayman TNT-90 and a PS 6.0 85 and they seem to be the same mold. I don't know why Cayman calls it a "90" because it's the exact head as the PS, you can even use the same grommets, of which are so similar I think they bought the grommets from Wilson.
Off-topic, but if you think the Cayman TNT-90 is similar to the Pro Staff Midsize or 6.0 85, then you'd be astonished at the old Donnay Graphite Borg. Not only are the respective molds similar, but so are the specs.
Also, Donnay's Pro Cynetic 1 frame came from a very similar mold as the Graphite Borg. The specs of the Pro Cynetic 1 make the frame play more like most of the River Grove, Illinois, models of the Pro Staff Midsize, while the Graphite Borg plays not only more like St. Vincent frames, but also even more closer to its Wilson counterpart.
Here it is folks, definitive proof that Federer's racquet is really a PS 6.0 90.
This web page lists the differences between the new Federer version of the nSix-One Tour that Wilson is releasing in Japan only and the retail version.
Well that proves it folks. Just as I suspected all along. Federer's racquet DOES NOT contain any HyperCarbon!
Federer's racquet only has high modulus graphite, graphite and kevlar, whereas, the retail version has HyperCarbon, high modulus graphite and graphite. I doubt Federer's racquet has any nCoded material, either.
Now if only Wilson would also sell this new racquet in the U.S.!
I think this message board and thread has wilson and other company people that read it to help put out the info they want.
So is the n6.1 tour 90 actually 85sqin also?
Time out! Are you writing that the page says that these frames have the normal 6.0 lay-up without "HyperCarbon/nCode"?
That's funny that the frame still has the longer handle. They could fit like five hands on it over there!
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying!!
It's what I've suspected all along. That Federer's racquet is a PS 6.0 85 with a 90 sq. in. head with the same layup and composition. It also supports what Tony Roche told ART ART at the French Open.
Some people here didn't believe me in the past when I said that I could tell just from watching Federer play that it was unlikely that his racquet contained any HyperCarbon nor nCode, since I've played extensively with both the Originals and the nCodes. Well, here's the proof that substantiates my claim.
From the site:
Federer - [haimojiyurasu] graphite + graphite + Kevler
Marketing model - Hyper carbon + [haimojiyurasu] graphite + graphite
I'm have no idea what haimojiyurasu is? Perhaps high modulus? I also thought that the regular ncode 90 had kevlar in it?
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