Federer > Djokovic > Nadal - average # of top 10 opponents faced in slams in which they made final

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Nah, there is nothing that makes 2015 better, at least as far as their paths to slam titles are concerned.
2004 had a top 10 who couldn't take one win off of Federer. His only losses came from the old guard and newer players. None of his peers could beat him but it was stronger? Lol ok.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
2004 had a top 10 who couldn't take one win off of Federer. His only losses came from the old guard and newer players. None of his peers could beat him but it was stronger? Lol ok.
obviously 2004 was stronger.
Oh, just because fed played too well and sharp enough (raising his level as required) vs top 10 in 2004, its his fault?
2004 AO nalby
2004 AO hewitt
2004 IW Agassi
2004 Hamburg Coria
2004 Wim hewitt
2004 Wim Roddick
2004 USO Agassi
2004 YEC Moya
2004 YEC Safin

all played well AND made it competitive.

this is not even taking cases like Hewitt YEC 04 final who did nothing wrong really and fed was just too good
 
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StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
Except the 6 times he did lose.
5 of them to Djokovic? Lol, that's the point. 2015 was extremely one sided.

Federer couldn't challenge Djokovic. (except for small tournaments and one great performance in Cincinnati)
Murray couldn't do anything against Djokovic and Federer.
The rest of the top-10 players (like Berdych, Nishikori, Cilic, Ferrer...) couldn't do anything against Djokovic, Federer and Murray.
The rest of the players couldn't even challenge the previous group.

Only Wawrinka managed to peak for RG and win it, for the rest of the year even he wasn't too relevant. So your argument works even better against 2015. I mean, old Karlovic did much better against Djokovic than most top-10 players.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
5 of them to Djokovic? Lol, that's the point. 2015 was extremely one sided.

Federer couldn't challenge Djokovic. (except for small tournaments and one good performance in Cincinnati)
Murray couldn't do anything against Djokovic and Federer.
The rest of the top-10 players (like Berdych, Nishikori, Cilic, Ferrer...) couldn't do anything against Djokovic, Federer and Murray.
The rest of the players couldn't even challenge the previous group.

Only Wawrinka managed to peak for RG and win it, for the rest of the year even he wasn't relevant. So your argument works even better against 2015. I mean, Karlovic did much better against Djokovic than most top-10 players.
Rate Djokovic slam final competition in 2015 out of 10.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
obviously 2004 was stronger.
Oh, just because fed played too well and sharp enough (raising his level as required) vs top 10 in 2004, its his fault?
2004 AO nalby
2004 AO hewitt
2004 IW Agassi
2004 Hamburg Coria
2004 Wim hewitt
2004 Wim Roddick
2004 USO Agassi
2004 YEC Moya
2004 YEC Safin

all played well AND made it competitive.

this is not even taking cases like Hewitt YEC 04 final who did nothing wrong really and fed was just too good
Yes Federer is a god among mortals who did what even Laver 1969, McEnroe 1984 and Djokovic 2015 couldn't do: go undefeated against the top 10 for the whole year.
 

Nadal_Django

Hall of Fame
Actually Safin was in Halle 05 final.
Agassi didn't have back issues in 04. Only in 05.
19 yo old 2005 Nadal - he sweeps the floor 100 times over with 2015 Nadal and then clubs you on the head in the hopes that will help repair some of the derangement.

If Roddick, Hewitt, lol then Wawrinka, Murray and even 15 Fed lol.
Safin reached the Halle final, WOW, THAT CONSISTENCY. 8-B Definitely sounds like a regular 2004-07 Fed opponent. Good for one tournament, then MIA for the next hundred and one. LOL. Agassi was having chronic back injury since the early 2000. He was recieving cortisone injections on a regular monthly basis. His condition was getting worse with every passing year. The 2003 AO was his swan song, after that tournament he was basically done. Clay boy Nadal in 2005, winning 134 tournaments on clay, useless Hewitt and Roddick come on. Those years were a complete wasteland.;)
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
5 of them to Djokovic? Lol, that's the point. 2015 was extremely one sided.

Federer couldn't challenge Djokovic. (except for small tournaments and one great performance in Cincinnati)
Murray couldn't do anything against Djokovic and Federer.
The rest of the top-10 players (like Berdych, Nishikori, Cilic, Ferrer...) couldn't do anything against Djokovic, Federer and Murray.
The rest of the players couldn't even challenge the previous group.

Only Wawrinka managed to peak for RG and win it, for the rest of the year even he wasn't too relevant. So your argument works even better against 2015. I mean, old Karlovic did much better against Djokovic than most top-10 players.
On the other hand, Federer, Wawrinka and Murray all beat Djokovic in the best season of his career.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Yes Federer is a god among mortals who did what even Laver 1969, McEnroe 1984 and Djokovic 2015 couldn't do: go undefeated against the top 10 for the whole year.
mac barely lost the RG 84 final to peak lendl. The sundstorm match one was a one-off.
About Laver 69. He did win the CYGS, but he wasn't consistently dominant that year, unlike say 67 where he was more consistent. And he played tons of matches that year.
fed 04 less consistent than 15 djokovic season wise, but higher top level and he brought it vs top 10 that year. Better in 3 of the 4 slams: AO, Wim, USO and the YEC.

I mean fed of 2006 was better than fed of 2004, but he did lose 4 top 10 matches that year (3 to Nadal to clay and that one off in Dubai). And 2004 was still clearly stronger than 2006 as a year.

Like @StrongRule pointed out, Fed only lost 1 top 10 match outside of Djokovic in 15 field (and STan would beat Djokovic in the RG final). so your argument actually turns against you.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
Who wins these 5 fantasy matchups and how many sets or tossup?

1. Hewitt USO 01 final vs Cllic USO 14 final
2. Federer USO 07 final vs Djokovic USO 11 final
3. Roddick Wim 04 final vs Djokovic Wim 11 final
4. Hewitt Wim 02 final vs Murray Wim 12 final
5. Nadal Wim 10 final vs Federer Wim 14 final
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Also @NoleFam :

Roddick Wim 04 final, Agassi USO 04 QF and Nalby AO 04 QF all better performances by top 10 in 04 in slams compared to whom Djoko beat in slams in 15.
only one up there with Roddick Wim 04 final & Agassi USO 04 QF was Stan RG 15 final and he actually beat Djokovic.

AO 15 SF stan was below par, only Djokovic was slightly less worse. Murray collapsed after playing well for 2 sets and half. Worse than the worst among the 3 - Nalby AO 04 QF
Murray of RG 15 semi - played well for 2 sets and took them both vs djokovic whose level dipped. But not so much in the other 3. worse than Nalby AO 04 QF
Fed of Wim 15 final - played well for 2 sets and a bit. Intensity gone after that. Return to the bin after getting broken in the 3rd set. worse than Nalby of AO 04 QF overall.
Fed of USO 15 final - played well in set2, choked away set 3, lot of BP chances. couldn't capitalise on djokovic's fall in the 1st set. again worse than Nalby of AO 04 QF overall.
 
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Nadal_Django

Hall of Fame
Also @NoleFam :

Roddick Wim 04 final, Agassi USO 04 QF and Nalby AO 04 QF all better performances by top 10 in 04 in slams compared to whom Djoko beat in slams in 15.
only one up there with Roddick Wim 04 final & Agassi USO 04 QF was Stan RG 15 final and he actually beat Djokovic.

AO 15 SF stan was below par, only Djokovic was slightly less worse. Murray collapsed after playing well for 2 sets and half. Worse than the worst among the 3 - Nalby AO 04 QF
Murray of RG 15 semi - played well for 2 sets and took them both vs djokovic whose level dipped. But not so much in the other 3. worse than Nalby AO 04 QF
Fed of Wim 15 final - played well for 2 sets and a bit. Intensity gone after that. Return to the bin after getting broken in the 3rd set. worse than Nalby of AO 04 QF overall.
Fed of USO 15 final - played well in set2, choked away set 3, lot of BP chances. couldn't capitalise on djokovic's fall in the 1st set. again worse than Nalby of AO 04 QF overall.
Are you hearing yourself what are you talking? Nalbandian, Roddick, sciatica immovable Agassi all better than Federer? LOL
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Safin reached the Halle final, WOW, THAT CONSISTENCY. 8-B Definitely sounds like a regular 2004-07 Fed opponent. Good for one tournament, then MIA for the next hundred and one. LOL. Agassi was having chronic back injury since the early 2000. He was recieving cortisone injections on a regular monthly basis. His condition was getting worse with every passing year. The 2003 AO was his swan song, after that tournament he was basically done. Clay boy Nadal in 2005, winning 134 tournaments on clay, useless Hewitt and Roddick come on. Those years were a complete wasteland.;)
Like I said 19 yo old 2005 Nadal - he sweeps the floor 100 times over with 2015 Nadal and then clubs you on the head in the hopes that will help repair some of the derangement.

Nadal won 2 HC masters in 05 and was in the final of a 3rd. ROTFL.

Agassi on HC in 2004 > nadal on HC in 2011 for instance.
Agassi-Safin had a titanic high level 5-set encounter in AO 04 and agassi obviously played pretty well vs fed in USO 04

if Roddick, Hewitt are useless, then so are Murray and Wawrinka.
more than utter wasteland of 2015 by your "standards"

Are you hearing yourself what are you talking? Nalbandian, Roddick, sciatica immovable Agassi all better than Federer? LOL
those respective performances better than that of 2015 fed in Wim 15/USO 15 finals, hell yeah. Actually watch the matches and check the stats in context.

but then derangedango doesn't know much, does he?

get that therapy soon. its a long shot, but hey miracles happen.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Certainly overhyping them and underating 2015 Fed but you as good as called 2015 Nadal better than 2005-06 Nadal earlier which is worse :D
no overhyping/under-rating.
watch the fed-nalby AO 04 match, if you haven't.
Which one of those whom Djokovic beat in slams in 2015 is equal to Roddick Wim 04 final/Agassi of USO 04 QF?
 

BackhandDTL

Hall of Fame
Fed played bums in the slams he won in 05 and 06.

Hewitt in 05 USO was the only respectable opponent. The rest were pigeons and broken back agassi with one foot already in a nursing home.

ROFLMAO
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
no overhyping/under-rating.
watch the fed-nalby AO 04 match, if you haven't.
Which one of those whom Djokovic beat in slams in 2015 is equal to Roddick Wim 04 final/Agassi of USO 04 QF?
You certainly were/are in my view.

NoleFam never mentioned who was better out those oppenents IIRC.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
You certainly were/are in my view.

NoleFam never mentioned who was better out those oppenents IIRC.
I am asking you to mention who was better.
and how am I over-rating 04/under-rating 15 in that post?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I dont want to get in to a better or worse disscusion.

I still stand by what i said.
of course - since you can't think of what exactly I was over-rating about 04/under-rating about 15 and don't want to admit you were wrong.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
of course - since you can't think of what exactly I was over-rating about 04/under-rating about 15 and don't want to admit you were wrong.
That breakdown was heavily based on your opinion and by reading it you would think 15 Fed was bad.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
That breakdown was heavily based on your opinion and by reading it you would think 15 Fed was bad.
in those specific finals - Wim 15 final and USO 15 final, Fed was worse than Nalby of AO 04 QF (&obviously Roddick of Wim 04 final&Agassi of USO 04 QF)
doesn't mean fed was bad in those finals.

I had to make the case why those matches from fed were worse than Nalby's perf. in AO 04 QF. I did.

If you want it in terms of numbers, Fed in those 2 finals is b/w 7 and 7.5.
Nalby's in AO 04 QF is an 8.
Roddick's in Wim 04 final & Agassi's in USO 04 QF above 8 obviously.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
in those specific finals - Wim 15 final and USO 15 final, Fed was worse than Nalby of AO 04 QF (&obviously Roddick of Wim 04 final&Agassi of USO 04 QF)
doesn't mean fed was bad in those finals.
Your breakdown made it look that way even if you dont think it.
 

Nadal_Django

Hall of Fame
Like I said 19 yo old 2005 Nadal - he sweeps the floor 100 times over with 2015 Nadal and then clubs you on the head in the hopes that will help repair some of the derangement.

Nadal won 2 HC masters in 05 and was in the final of a 3rd. ROTFL.

Agassi on HC in 2004 > nadal on HC in 2011 for instance.
Agassi-Safin had a titanic high level 5-set encounter in AO 04 and agassi obviously pretty well vs fed in USO 04

if Roddick, Hewitt are useless, then so are Murray and Wawrinka.
more than utter wasteland of 2015.



those respective performances better than that of 2015 fed in Wim 15/USO 15 finals, hell yeah. Actually watch the matches.

but then derangedango doesn't know much, does he?
19 y/o Nadal playing 134 clay tournaments you mean. LOL If they've organized clay tournament on the Moon, he would have played that one in 2005 as well. Clay boy Nadal winning two Masters outside clay is another proof for the weak era in 2005. Who has he beat for those titles, again!? Sciatica Agassi and effing Ljubicic. LOL He was so good that if not for the regular chokejob by the second biggest choker in the history of tennis, he would have lost that match easily in 3 sets in front of 10k loud and crazy Madrilenos. Also that was his first and only indoor title in his whole career. Ding, ding.. A weak era...
The 2004 USO QF!? How can that match be barometer for anything. LOL Have you watch that match. :oops: Tennis wasn't played that day in NY, that's for sure, maybe something similar to tennis. Lol How can someone derive some conclusions regarding tennis history, of such a non event is really beyond me!?o_O
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Your breakdown made it look that way.
I had to make the case why those matches from fed were worse than Nalby's perf. in AO 04 QF. I did.

If you want it in terms of numbers, Fed in those 2 finals is b/w 7 and 7.5.
Nalby's in AO 04 QF is an 8.
Roddick's in Wim 04 final & Agassi's in USO 04 QF above 8 obviously.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
2015 Federer is underrated by his fans. They shouldn't sh1t on their man like that.
The guy won 20 slams and lots of other big titles. If he won nothing except Cincinnati (and lots of small tournaments) in 2015 then it probably wasn't anything close to his best season, don't you think?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
2015 Federer is underrated by his fans. They shouldn't sh1t on their man like that.
no, 15 fed is rated just fine by fed fans. Its djokovic fans who inflate him to hype up djoko 15.

fed couldn't sustain high level for more than 2 sets/2 hrs in 15.

cincy 15 was terrific from him - obviously prime level, no question.
dubai 15 - he outclutched Djokovic. Very good performance, but not great per se
YEC 15 - very good performance in RR vs djoko, but below par in final. See Djoko vs Z in 2018 for an analogy.

was obviously clearly outmatched in IW 15/Rome 15 by peak level djoko. (slow HC/clay - to be expected)

slams:
AO - lost to frickin seppi in 3R.
FO - played ok till 4R. exposed by GOATing stan in QF.
Wim - played great till the final. played pretty well for the 1st 2 sets (~2 hrs), then level dipped considerably after getting broken early in 3rd set.
USO - again played great till the final. level dipped considerably in the final. played pretty well in 2nd set, less so in 3rd set thanks to choking. not a good 1st set. too late for comeback in the 4th set after going down a double break though he did well to get a break and then BPs again.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
competition wise, 07-09 > 11-13 > 04-06 > 14-16.

This is all very clear, what conclusions you wish to draw from this is up to you.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
I had to make the case why those matches from fed were worse than Nalby's perf. in AO 04 QF. I did.

If you want it in terms of numbers, Fed in those 2 finals is b/w 7 and 7.5.
Nalby's in AO 04 QF is an 8.
Roddick's in Wim 04 final & Agassi's in USO 04 QF above 8 obviously.
By making a case shifted a lot attention away from 2015 Federer which is why i said in my view you underated him.

IMO Fed of Wim 15/USO 15 finals was a 8/10.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
By making a case shifted a lot attention away from 2015 Federer which is why i said in my view you underated him.

IMO Fed of Wim 15/USO 15 finals was a 8/10.
talk was about field in 04 vs 15 (top 10 more so). not just fed 15.
Your rating for Wim 15/USO 15 final fed is like 0.5 to 1 more points than mine. Still worse than Roddick of Wim 04 final and Agassi of USO 04 QF , right?
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
talk was about field in 04 vs 15 (top 10 more so). not just fed 15.
Your rating for Wim 15/USO 15 final fed is like 0.5 to 1 more points than mine. Still worse than Roddick of Wim 04 final and Agassi of USO 04 QF , right?
My comment was not a issue with you saying 04 was stronger than 15 which is fine. I did see NoleFam say he felt 2015 was a better year but that was in response to a joke post of mine.

I would probably put Roddick of the 04 final and maybe Agassi as well over that but i still probably would have them lower than you do
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
2004 had a top 10 who couldn't take one win off of Federer. His only losses came from the old guard and newer players. None of his peers could beat him but it was stronger? Lol ok.
So I guess Fed should have lost more like Djokovic to make his competition seem stronger.
 
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