Federer > Djokovic prime to prime at slams except on plexi AO

abmk said:
yeah, that loser fed only won like 40% of return points, whereas Djokovic won so much more at 32.6%
also had a DR of only 1.22. what a loser.
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Fed GOATed no doubt and played at his best. Just if played 20 times over Fed isn't going to serve quite like that and it would be closer to his normal level and Djoko wins most the time IMO.
 
NoleFam said:
This 8th best stuff only matters in la la land, not reality. No one cares about that. They played...Federer won, Djokovic lost. Djokovic has beaten him 3 times in finals, once because he is mentally weaker and choked. Saying Djokovic would beat him 4 times out of 10 prime to prime is right within possibility. Not to you, because you live on Mars..lol
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You would be surprised lol
 
I definitely need to read through this thread when I have more time. I guess most people are conceding that Fed is the true GOAT?
 
Tennis_Freak99 said:
Federer from 2003-07:

Hold% = 94%, Service points won: 72.5%, Break% = 30.3%,return points won = 41%


Djokovic from 11-12,14-15 and 18:

Hold% = 92.1%, Service points won: 71.7%, Break% = 28.3%,return points won = 40.5%

You can hold these stats against Djokovic but I would argue the opposite. See how close these numbers are, it is a testimony of Novak's greatness on Grass that his stats are almost neck to neck with the Grass GOAT.

But it seems like your hate for Novak is so deep rooted that you want to project him as being 'lucky' and 'overrated' when the stats show otherwise.
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Small margins make big differences though. Even if it's close that could be difference between winning and losing most the time :D
 
NoleFam said:
Yea Federer was terrible trash and way declined, which is why he lost. What else is new with you? You somehow think 2011 proves his level is overall better than Djokovic's on clay. It isn't. For one, Djokovic is more accomplished on clay and beat Nadal multiple times in 3/4 big clay tournaments, has all the big clay titles multiple times, and has a higher winning percentage overall and over top players. I mean if you like, we can compare their cumulative stats from all 8 clay matches they played against each other where only two of them happened when Federer was over the age of 31.


Cumulative stats from all Djokovic/Federer matches on clay
Points won - Djokovic - 655 / Federer - 645
Games won - Djokovic - 104 / Federer- 96
Sets won - Djokovic - 11 / Federer - 10
Service games % won - Djokovic - 79.2% / Federer - 75.8%
Return games % won - Djokovic - 24.2% / Federer - 20.8%
Games dominance - Djokovic - 1.17 / Federer - 0.86


Three of these matches were played in 2006, 2008 and 2009 and then three in 2011 and 2012. None of this says that Federer is better prime to prime and instead indicates the opposite. It seems like after Djokovic took down the KOC to win his 2nd RG title that this kind of talk would die down but instead you are doubling down on a losing and flat out wrong argument.
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Nice stats.
 
ForehandRF said:
Well, peak Safin in zen mode showed how tennis was meant to be played no ?
Especially if hot chicks didn't take so much of his energy lol
:D:D
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Yeah tbh it was a actual high level. You didn't post the pictures from AO 2002 :D

Hewitt and Roddick never brought that level vs Fed. Best match level outside Nadal on clay and IW 07 and Fed in 03-07.
 
RS said:
Fed GOATed no doubt and played at his best. Just if played 20 times over Fed isn't going to serve quite like that and it would be closer to his normal level and Djoko wins most the time IMO.
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Djokovic ain't going to save 21/25 BPs either. Would get broken more times than he did. But hey , just because fed was able to do what Nadal didn't come remotely close to ...
 
abmk said:
Djokovic ain't going to save 21/25 BPs either. Would get broken more times than he did. But hey , just because fed was able to do what Nadal didn't come remotely close to ...
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He probably wouldn't face that many over 20 matches. And if it goes 5......

This isn't about Nadal but I will concede that point. Nadal made up for it by beating Fed in 4 though :D
 
Who played at a higher level over the whole slam?

1. Roddick AO 04 or Federer USO 15
2. Murray Wim 12 or Federer AO 12
3. Del Potro RG 09 or Djokovic USO 18
4. Nadal RG 09 or Murray AO 13
5. Agassi USO 04 or Federer RG 07
6. Hewitt Wim 05 or Djokovic AO 20
7. Federer Wim 17 or Nadal RG 19
 
RS said:
Yeah tbh it was a actual high level. You didn't post the pictures from AO 2002 :D

Hewitt and Roddick never brought that level vs Fed. Best match level outside Nadal on clay and IW 07 and Fed in 03-07.
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Yeah, on a serious note it was indeed a high level but even so, it often gets overrated.Comparing it with Djokovic AO2011 should take into account that it's about 2 different surfaces with the 2011 surface not being as conducive for the type of tennis we've witnessed in 2005 and we can't forget that Djokovic was a baseline juggernaut :D
 
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ForehandRF said:
Yeah, on a serious note it was indeed a high level but even so, it often gets overrated.Comparing it with Djokovic AO2011 should take into account that it's about 2 different surfaces with the 2011 surface not being as conducive for the type of tennis we've witnessed in 2005 and we can't forget that Djokovic was a baseline juggernaut :D
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You reckon 05 SF is overrated overall?
 
RS said:
You reckon 05 SF is overrated overall?
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I would say that while it remains one of the best and most entertaining matches in the OE, it often gets overvalued, but that also happens with the 2008 Wimbledon Final for example; it all depends on which one supports.The problem is that while these matches can get overrated, they can get underrated at the same time by others.For instance, Fed detractors don't give to the 2005 SF the adequate credit because in their minds it was a weak era and the level couldn't possibly be that high :D
 
RS said:
He probably wouldn't face that many over 20 matches. And if it goes 5......

This isn't about Nadal but I will concede that point. Nadal made up for it by beating Fed in 4 though :D
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no, Djoko would just get broken more.
nadal didn't make up for anything vs djoko. just kept getting beat worse in Wim 11 and USO 11 finals
 
abmk said:
no, Djoko would just get broken more.
nadal didn't make up for anything vs djoko. just kept getting beat worse in Wim 11 and USO 11 finals
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13-7 Djoko then over 20 matches.

We know Fed did better in 11 vs Nadal. But Nadal beat Fed in RG 11 in 4.
 
jl809 said:
Have we done 2014 Shanghai Federer / 2006 WTF Federer vs 2016 AO Djokovic on fast hard yet?
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What about Fed Shanghai 14 SF vs Djokovic Shanghai 15 SF?

Djokovic was pretty flat for his standards but very good for top 5 standards in the 2014 match so backing him in 2015 in a close match.
 
RS said:
13-7 Djoko then over 20 matches.

We know Fed did better in 11 vs Nadal. But Nadal beat Fed in RG 11 in 4.
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Sure and Djoko would go 16-4 vs Nadal in 11 at RG. Oh wait, that has the basis of 4-0 in sets on clay unlike your wishful one based on nothing


Meanwhile based on what happened 13-7 fed vs djoko
 
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abmk said:
Sure and Djoko would go 16-4 vs Nadal in 11 at RG. Oh wait, that has the basis of 4-0 in sets on clay unlike your wishful one based on nothing


Meanwhile based on what happened 13-7 fed vs djoko
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lol.

If that match goes 5 Fed isn't winning it and it nearly did.
 
Even as a Novak fan if we talk peak i agree about WB and US Open.
No way however i agree about RG-1 match doesn't proove anything and i always think Novak peak on clay in general and at RG in particular is higher.
About AO it's difficult due to change of surface from Rebound ACe to plexicusion.
 
AO Djoko only on plexi
FO slight edge to Fed, sure it was only one match, but it was the best possible version of Djokovic there with extra rest and it was not 2006 Fed
W edge to Fed
USO edge to Fed
 
I do think the best version of Rog at RG > the best version of Djoker at RG, but the best version of Clayovic overall > the best version of Clayderer imo.
 
CoolCoolCool said:
I do think the best version of Rog at RG > the best version of Djoker at RG, but the best version of Clayovic overall > the best version of Clayderer imo.
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At one point you could make a caser for Federer. But Federer could never take Nadal to 5/beat him while Djokovic did so 3 times. And when Djokovic lost in 4 he was closer than when Federer lost in 4. He also won the title THREE times compared to Federer's one.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
At one point you could make a caser for Federer. But Federer could never take Nadal to 5/beat him while Djokovic did so 3 times. And when Djokovic lost in 4 he was closer than when Federer lost in 4. He also won the title THREE times compared to Federer's one.
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Not a fair comparison. Rog had a matchup issue with Rafa and he only played the best versions of him, Djoker defeated the weakest versions of him and took to 5 a version of Rafa that had just recovered from a knee injury with the luxury of having no matchup disadvantage on top of that. And we're not arguing about who is overall better at RG, so the number of RG titles is irrelevant.
 
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Kralingen said:
I swear commentators at the time said his cross court BH was actually his best shot . I have a vivid memory of this in the USO ‘09 final. It was a beautiful stroke pre injury.

that wrist injury is really what took him from true ATG candidate to who he ended up being in 12-13. When he lost the BH it just limited his game too much.
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Yes, they did. USO 2009 was a bit of a revelation.
 
mahatma said:
Thread should be renamed as Fedfans vs Djokovicfans final round. Lol
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abmk was super pumped and motivated at this time to take down Djokovic fans so he made this a great thread.

Fed also still had a slight edge in the GOAT debate but it was starting to narrow big time
 
RF-18 said:
Neither does wins against Baghdatis, Kiefer, Bjorkman, Ancic, Gonzalez and the gang. Main competition Roddick and Hewitt. Just saying as you seem to forget the past.
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A peak Roddick and Hewitt are around the same level as Djokovic showed in some his slam wins after AO 19.

I think they are around the same as AO 20/21 Djokovic or something
 
RF-18 said:
Neither does wins against Baghdatis, Kiefer, Bjorkman, Ancic, Gonzalez and the gang. Main competition Roddick and Hewitt. Just saying as you seem to forget the past.
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Nadal and Joke were around as early as 2005/2006. Those past versions, along with Gonzales, Roddick, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Soderling, Safin etc would be mopping the current mug field clean lol
 
initialize said:
Nadal and Joke were around as early as 2005/2006. Those past versions, along with Gonzales, Roddick, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Soderling, Safin etc would be mopping the current mug field clean lol
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Surely you don't think we should offer Roger a medal for facing one player who could offer him competition on his weakest surface? I assume including 2005/2006 Djokovic as good competition was a "Djoke" on your part.
 
RF-18 said:
Neither does wins against Baghdatis, Kiefer, Bjorkman, Ancic, Gonzalez and the gang. Main competition Roddick and Hewitt. Just saying as you seem to forget the past.
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Roddick, Hewitt, Nadal on clay/grass, 07 Djokovic, old Agassi, Safin, Nalbandian, Davydenko. Much stronger than the clowns djokovic faced since 2020.
 
RS said:
A peak Roddick and Hewitt are around the same level as Djokovic showed in some his slam wins after AO 19.

I think they are around the same as AO 20/21 Djokovic or something
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I'm not gonna overrate Roddick and Hewitt that much.
 
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