Federer - Djokovic: the hardcourt GOAT debate continues.

[UnderratedSlam]

Or at least the who's-best-HC-player-of-this-era debate. Coz GOATs don't exist in tennis.

To be honest, I just thought it'd be fun to compare the stats post-AO20, I'm not that bothered about who is "the best" on HC.

Slams:

Novak 11
Federer 11

Novak - AO/USO: 8/3
Federer - AO/USO: 6/5

Slam finales:

Novak 16
Federer 14

M1000s:

Novak 25
Federer 22

WTF:

Novak 5
Federer 6

Olympics:

Novak 0
Federer 0

(MurrayGOAT)

All HC titles:

Federer 71
Djokovic 59

H2H in HC slams:

7-4 for Djokovic

H2H in all HC events:

20-18 for Djokovic

Not included are winning %s because I find them fairly irrelevant next to these key facts.

My conclusion: A very clear tie between them. Only a slight edge for Djokovic but not enough to claim that he is the no 1 HC player of this century.

For this to occur he needs to win at least 2 slams more on HC than Federer does. Ditto Federer. A 12-11 edge wouldn't be enough. (And anyway, doesn't tennis require a 2-point/game difference in nearly everything?)

 

[beard]

I made topic on that matter today

 

[MeatTornado]

Goddamnit.

I think it's finally time that I have to give it to Djoker. If it's not officially official yet, it's only a matter of time now with how Fed seems to be regressing on the concrete. The 1 YEC vs 2 Masters difference is arbitrary. I don't care about the H2H (their most recent match-up being a perfect example why) but I think the 2 extra slam finals is what pushes Novak over the edge here.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

I made topic on that matter today

Gimme the link, I had no clue.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Goddamnit.

I think it's finally time that I have to give it to Djoker. If it's not officially official yet, it's only a matter of time now with how Fed seems to be regressing on the concrete. The 1 YEC vs 2 Masters difference is arbitrary. I don't care about the H2H (their most recent match-up being a perfect example why) but I think the 2 extra slam finals is what pushes Novak over the edge here.

I wanted to add a semis stat but was just too lazy...

 

[beard]

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/hard-court-goat-federer-or-novak.662710/

 

[helterskelter]

Goddamnit.

I think it's finally time that I have to give it to Djoker. If it's not officially official yet, it's only a matter of time now with how Fed seems to be regressing on the concrete. The 1 YEC vs 2 Masters difference is arbitrary. I don't care about the H2H (their most recent match-up being a perfect example why) but I think the 2 extra slam finals is what pushes Novak over the edge here.

I dunno. I take your point about Slam finals being more important than MS titles, but I would put them not much more important than YEC titles. The other thing in Federer's favor is that I rate a 6/5 split above an 8/3 split. Though split doesn't matter enough to edge out trailing overall, so if Djokovic ever wins another Slam title on hard courts, he makes this his (given that Federer is almost certainly not winning another Slam title on hard courts).

 

[MeatTornado]

I wanted to add a semis stat but was just too lazy...

Novak has an extra 3 HC semis. Fed has 11.

Definitely some food for thought there.

Edit: FWIW, extra Masters finals is 9 to 12 in Fed's favor. Extra Masters semi-finals is 10 to 13 in Fed's favor. Roger also has 4 extra YEC finals compared to Novak's 2. But I expect most if not all of those non-slam gaps to be matched as Novak ages.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Goddamnit.

I think it's finally time that I have to give it to Djoker. If it's not officially official yet, it's only a matter of time now with how Fed seems to be regressing on the concrete. The 1 YEC vs 2 Masters difference is arbitrary. I don't care about the H2H (their most recent match-up being a perfect example why) but I think the 2 extra slam finals is what pushes Novak over the edge here.

It's actually 3 Masters.

 

[NoleFam]

Slight correction: I think Djokovic has 25 Masters and Federer has 22.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Novak has an extra 3 HC semis. Fed has 11.

Definitely some food for thought there.

Edit: FWIW, extra Masters finals is 9 to 12 in Fed's favor. Extra Masters semi-finals is 10 to 13 in Fed's favor. Roger also has 4 extra YEC finals compared to Novak's 2. But I expect most of those gaps to be matched as Novak ages.

If anything, those numbers can be interpreted as "getting to the almost-finish-line yet failing often". I bet RF is 3rd round slam GOAT but what does that even mean?

 

[Fridge]

I would put novak slightly ahead,

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Slight correction: I think Djokovic has 25 Masters and Federer has 22.

Well done, it's been corrected.

 

[MeatTornado]

If anything, those numbers can be interpreted as "getting to the almost-finish-line yet failing often". I bet RF is 3rd round slam GOAT but what does that even mean?

If anything it makes him the Quarter-final GOAT. Would you prefer he went out in those 3rd rounds instead?

 

[PeoplesChamp]

Convenient to leave out HC titles.

Fed 71
Djokovic 59

And yes, Dubai and Basel count.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

If anything it makes him the Quarter-final GOAT. Would you prefer he went out in those 3rd rounds instead?

I'd prefer people didn't judge consistency on such "low" criteria.

Which is partly why I omitted them.

That, and laziness.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Convenient to leave out HC titles.

Fed 71
Djokovic 58

And yes, Dubai and Basel count.

I shall add them!

Well done.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Fed's five US Open titles are a joke. He hasn't been near the trophy since he had to firght to win it so clearly Djokovic

 

[PeoplesChamp]

I shall add them!

Well done.

I guess that would be 59 for Djokovic now.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

I guess that would be 59 for Djokovic now.

You guessed right!

 

[MHI]

Fed's five US Open titles are a joke. He hasn't been near the trophy since he had to firght to win it so clearly Djokovic

100% agreed

 

[Biotic]

 

[zagor]

Fed's five US Open titles are a joke. He hasn't been near the trophy since he had to firght to win it so clearly Djokovic

Says a Nadal fan lol

 

[TripleATeam]

Well now Djokovic is at 14 HC slams, plus more YECs, plus more M1000s, plus the H2H. Looks like my original vote was correct. They were too close to call then but now it's clear.