Federer faced the very best of Nadal at the FO than Djokovic ever did

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
When Nadal was at his very best on clay,
Federer met him at the French Open in
1) 2005 Semi
2) 2006 Final
3) 2007 Final
4) 2008 Final
5) 2011 Final


When Nadal was past his prime on clay,
Djokovic met him at the French Open in
1) 2012 Final
2) 2013 Semi
3) 2014 Final
4) 2015 QF
5) 2020 Final
6) 2021 Semi
7) 2022 QF
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
it's like the same thread over and over and over. I guess we need to wait until RG? According to some Twitter posters Nadal is not playing this year after all.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
you're asking a tennis fan who thinks the current era has been a strong one. Of course he will not agree.
it goes beyond that. We've already seen no one here has any ability to measure relative levels. I get it, Fed fans are upset he lost his records and now seek to compensate for that. But every day the same thread??
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
When Nadal was at his very best on clay,
Federer met him at the French Open in
1) 2005 Semi
2) 2006 Final
3) 2007 Final
4) 2008 Final
5) 2011 Final


When Nadal was past his prime on clay,
Djokovic met him at the French Open in
1) 2012 Final
2) 2013 Semi
3) 2014 Final
4) 2015 QF
5) 2020 Final
6) 2021 Semi
7) 2022 QF
Djokovic played him in 2006, 2007, 2008 RG as well, so this is objectively false

What are you talking about?
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
it goes beyond that. We've already seen no one here has any ability to measure relative levels. I get it, Fed fans are upset he lost his records and now seek to compensate for that. But every day the same thread??
So you're saying old Nadal(e.g. 2021) on clay was just as good on clay as he was in any of the year between 2005-2011? LOL
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
When Nadal was at his very best on clay,
Federer met him at the French Open in
1) 2005 Semi
2) 2006 Final
3) 2007 Final
4) 2008 Final
5) 2011 Final


When Nadal was past his prime on clay,
Djokovic met him at the French Open in
1) 2012 Final
2) 2013 Semi
3) 2014 Final
4) 2015 QF
5) 2020 Final
6) 2021 Semi
7) 2022 QF

nadal's prime on clay was from 2005-13.
RG 14 could be argued to be prime, though definitely not clay season 14.

federer faced prime Nadal 5 times when he was a contender : 05-08 and 11
djokovic faced prime Nadal 3 times when he was a contender : 08, 12 and 13
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
nadal's prime on clay was from 2005-13.
RG 14 could be argued to be prime, though definitely not clay season 14.

federer faced prime Nadal 5 times when he was a contender : 05-08 and 11
djokovic faced prime Nadal 3 times when he was a contender : 08, 12 and 13
Nonetheless, Federer dealt with a better version of Nadal, a much bigger obstacle to win the FO
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Nonetheless, Federer dealt with a better version of Nadal, a much bigger obstacle to win the FO

Federer did deal with better nadal than DJokovic when both were contenders, but Nadal in 12 and 13 was also prime on clay.
Like I said 5 to 3.
 

robthai

Hall of Fame
it goes beyond that. We've already seen no one here has any ability to measure relative levels. I get it, Fed fans are upset he lost his records and now seek to compensate for that. But every day the same thread??
you're being disingenuous if you honestly believe the past few years have been strong. And It's not so much the record being broken that annoys me. It's more so the hypocrisy. Will you ever admit that your guy is mostly winning slams due to the absence of any good young players for over a decade until recently. This is a luxury Federer never had.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
you're being disingenuous if you honestly believe the past few years have been strong. And It's not so much the record being broken that annoys me. It's more so the hypocrisy. Will you ever admit that your guy is mostly winning slams due to the absence of any good young players for over a decade until recently. This is a luxury Federer never had.
Who cares? Players can only beat the guy in front of them. No one here has any clue how to compare players across time as we’ve seen over and over when old threads get bumped. And Federer is retired. Why are Fed fans trolling in GPPD all the time?
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
05,06,07,08,11 5 prime versions for fed
12,13,14 for djokovic so 5>3
won’t count 08 for djokovic as fed would’ve been clear favourite in final.

federer never got a crap or injured version like 15/21
 

TheNachoMan

Legend
you think 2008 djokovic is beating fed in a RG final?
He needed a prime form vs monorerer in AO semi… at that time on clay fed would’ve dominated him with his big game.
Novak did well against Nadal in 08..As well as someone who got straight setted can. Fed got embarrassed by Nadal.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Novak did well against Nadal in 08..As well as someone who got straight setter can. Fed got embarrassed by Nadal.

only 3rd set was close in RG 08 semi.
plenty of 3 setters that are tighter than that. examples on top of my head:

Krajicek v Sampras Wim 96
Federer v Davydenko RG 07
Federer v Roddick USO 07
Federer v Djokovic USO 07
Djokovic v Federer AO 08
Federer v Djokovic USO 09
Djokovic v Federer AO 11
Federer vs Berdych Wim 17
Thiem vs Med USO 20

etc.

in RG 08, Djokovic did do better vs Nadal, but fed went with kamikaze approach vs Nadal that he wouldn't need to vs Djokovic.
I'd make Fed the slight fav vs Djoko in a direct RG match in 08. He had beaten Djoko in Monte Carlo in 08.
 

ffw2

Hall of Fame
fed fans lingering in GPPD is a really sad sight, like those guys that go to clubs where they are clearly too old
lol this dude is serious with this?

Hall Monitor, is keyboard warrioring your version of clubbing? :unsure:
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
lol this dude is serious with this?

Hall Monitor, is keyboard warrioring your version of clubbing? :unsure:

guy thinks others are like him - regarding 1 player (for him Djokovic) as more important than tennis. for him tough to get that's not necessarily the case for others. No wonder ..
 

itrium84

Hall of Fame
When Nadal was at his very best on clay,
Federer met him at the French Open in
1) 2005 Semi
2) 2006 Final
3) 2007 Final
4) 2008 Final
5) 2011 Final


When Nadal was past his prime on clay,
Djokovic met him at the French Open in
1) 2012 Final
2) 2013 Semi
3) 2014 Final
4) 2015 QF
5) 2020 Final
6) 2021 Semi
7) 2022 QF
And yet - Novak is greater clay court player than Fed.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
However, while the exact argument being made by the OP is rather silly, there is at least one useful thing to take from this.

Fed basically had one year to benefit from Nadal not being at his best at RG. That was 2009 when, due to a drop in form, Nadal bombed out early to Soderling.

Djokovic had three of these, really four.

In 2015, Nadal was terrible. He started out okay in that quarterfinal but the second set was poor and the third was possibly the worst set he's ever played at the tournament. The name "Nadal" looks very impressive here, but in terms of actual level he was basically Ferrer-level in that match.

In 2016, of course, Nadal withdrew due to injury. And I'm not convinced he'd have been in stellar form even if he had played given he was still in his slump.

In 2021, Nadal was a bit better than in 2015 but he was still very far off his best. The movement wasn't there, his backhand was misfiring, and his stamina was lacking. If the last set of the 2015 quarterfinal was Nadal's worst at RG, the fourth set of this match was probably his second worst. Now, he started out the match fairly strong, but looking at this performance, can we really put it over any other version of Nadal aside from 2015? I find it difficult to even compare this match to 2009, which by all accounts was hardly peak Nadal either.

In 2022, Nadal improved in some respects compared to 2021 (notably the backhand and stamina) but declined further in others (notably movement). Still not classic Nadal by any means but good enough to defeat a mediocre Djokovic.

Djokovic deserves credit for his longevity on clay. Even if Nadal wasn't that great in 2021, you do have to consider that Djokovic himself was no spring chicken either, so his victory in that match is a very impressive display of longevity. This is just to show that his victories over Nadal don't necessarily indicate that he achieved a higher level at the tournament than Federer. Fed had plenty of losses back in the day (I'm thinking of 2005 and 2007 here) that very much outclass both players' efforts in the 2021 and 2022 matches, for instance. But facing 2005 or 2007 Nadal is not quite like facing 2021 or 2022 Nadal.
 

Razer

Legend
When Nadal was at his very best on clay,
Federer met him at the French Open in
1) 2005 Semi
2) 2006 Final
3) 2007 Final
4) 2008 Final
5) 2011 Final


When Nadal was past his prime on clay,
Djokovic met him at the French Open in
1) 2012 Final
2) 2013 Semi
3) 2014 Final
4) 2015 QF
5) 2020 Final
6) 2021 Semi
7) 2022 QF

So Nadal was at the peak of his powers as per you in 2011 but he was past his prime in 2012 ? ... LOL
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
However, while the exact argument being made by the OP is rather silly, there is at least one useful thing to take from this.

Fed basically had one year to benefit from Nadal not being at his best at RG. That was 2009 when, due to a drop in form, Nadal bombed out early to Soderling.

Djokovic had three of these, really four.

In 2015, Nadal was terrible. He started out okay in that quarterfinal but the second set was poor and the third was possibly the worst set he's ever played at the tournament. The name "Nadal" looks very impressive here, but in terms of actual level he was basically Ferrer-level in that match.

In 2016, of course, Nadal withdrew due to injury. And I'm not convinced he'd have been in stellar form even if he had played given he was still in his slump.

In 2021, Nadal was a bit better than in 2015 but he was still very far off his best. The movement wasn't there, his backhand was misfiring, and his stamina was lacking. If the last set of the 2015 quarterfinal was Nadal's worst at RG, the fourth set of this match was probably his second worst. Now, he started out the match fairly strong, but looking at this performance, can we really put it over any other version of Nadal aside from 2015? I find it difficult to even compare this match to 2009, which by all accounts was hardly peak Nadal either.

In 2022, Nadal improved in some respects compared to 2021 (notably the backhand and stamina) but declined further in others (notably movement). Still not classic Nadal by any means but good enough to defeat a mediocre Djokovic.

Djokovic deserves credit for his longevity on clay. Even if Nadal wasn't that great in 2021, you do have to consider that Djokovic himself was no spring chicken either, so his victory in that match is a very impressive display of longevity. This is just to show that his victories over Nadal don't necessarily indicate that he achieved a higher level at the tournament than Federer. Fed had plenty of losses back in the day (I'm thinking of 2005 and 2007 here) that very much outclass both players' efforts in the 2021 and 2022 matches, for instance. But facing 2005 or 2007 Nadal is not quite like facing 2021 or 2022 Nadal.

2009 RG was a chance for Djokovic as well. (yeah, I know he got knocked out a round earlier than Nadal)
argument to be made for 2014 RG for Djokovic as well
wouldn't even consider 2022 RG since Djokovic was 35. wouldn't even be talking about this if field was halfway decent, since there would be atleast 3-4 more players in better form than 2022 RG djokovic.

2009 RG nadal would crush 2021 RG nadal, without a shadow of a doubt.
Edit:

1. 16 nadal was not anywhere near prime, but still better than 15 on clay by some distance.
2. All of Fed RG 05/06/07/11 losses to nadal were clearly better than RG 21/22 Djokovic/Nadal.
Even RG 10 Fed who lost to Sod.
 
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TheNachoMan

Legend
2009 RG was a chance for Djokovic as well. (yeah, I know he got knocked out a round earlier than Nadal)
argument to be made for 2014 RG for Djokovic as well
wouldn't even consider 2022 RG since Djokovic was 35. wouldn't even be talking about this if field was halfway decent, since there would be atleast 3-4 more players in better form than 2022 RG djokovic.

2009 RG nadal would crush 2021 RG nadal, without a shadow of a doubt.
2013 was a choke. That damn netcord.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
2013 was a choke. That damn netcord.

Djokovic was awful in set 3 and meh in set 1. If anything, Djokovic timed his peaks perfectly in that match to get those 2 sets to push it to a 5th set, especially with Nadal serving for the match in the 4th set. Nadal didn't choke, but wasn't at his sharpest in that game or the 4th set TB.
The 5th set netchord would be classified by me as a slipup/dip, not a choke, given the level was very good and the pressure Nadal was putting with his play.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Once proud fanbase hits yet another low...

giphy.webp
 

SonnyT

Legend
When Nadal was at his very best on clay,
Federer met him at the French Open in
1) 2005 Semi
2) 2006 Final
3) 2007 Final
4) 2008 Final
5) 2011 Final


When Nadal was past his prime on clay,
Djokovic met him at the French Open in
1) 2012 Final
2) 2013 Semi
3) 2014 Final
4) 2015 QF
5) 2020 Final
6) 2021 Semi
7) 2022 QF
Check your sources. Nadal met Djokovic at 2006 RG QF; 2007 and 2008 SF. They've met at RG a total of 10 times!

He beat Nadal two times at RG; Nadal beat once at Wimbledon (due to retirement) and none at AO.
 

crimson87

Semi-Pro
Yep That's why it's Vulturevic. RF would have Borg like numbers on clay if not for peak Nadal. And all those peak Nadal defeats on clay screwed his mentality in other surfaces as well.

The "mental giant" had it way easier across all surfaces.
 
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Razer

Legend
Nadal was at his peak until 2013 end, 2017 was a prime year for Nadal, then he slowly declined until 2019-2020, after 2020 FO he has been very old.
 
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